Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc) - Page 94 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2791 of 3113 Old 10-23-2015, 10:55 PM
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Cool All give Walter Fortmulller a round of applause for making Immersion 2025 possible!

I have had the adventure of a lifetime, he called it a roller coaster. A true gentleman, tremendous integrity and knowledge that challenges my most advanced technical notions, next time we fly in business class instead of driving 3,500 miles! LOL



Thank you for putting up with me for 3 weeks!

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post #2792 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 03:53 AM
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Peter, any information on when we will see Dirac 2 out for the masses? My last chat with datasat had me confused as they said not even they have it working, which was a day after I had seen your vid with Mike talking about how he uses both. Lol
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post #2793 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 08:38 AM
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Here is a white paper of our new crossover selection of choice.
which product is actually offering NT filters? It's patented isn't it? not sure who owns that patent though

FWIW you may find http://www.acourate.com/XOWhitePaper.pdf interesting on the subject of comparing different filter shapes.
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post #2794 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 10:06 AM
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Is anyone using the Datasat with ProAudio Technology speakers? I'm interested in these speakers (to be used along with a Datasat) but there doesn't seem to be many people on AVS with these speakers. I would love to hear from owners or people that have experience ProAudio to learn what they thing about them, how you like them, what type of reputation they have etc. Please post a reply here or feel welcome to PM me as well. Thanks!
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post #2795 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 10:39 AM
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Is anyone using the Datasat with ProAudio Technology speakers? I'm interested in these speakers (to be used along with a Datasat) but there doesn't seem to be many people on AVS with these speakers. I would love to hear from owners or people that have experience ProAudio to learn what they thing about them, how you like them, what type of reputation they have etc. Please post a reply here or feel welcome to PM me as well. Thanks!
Read all about it here. This Job boosted their sales tremendously specially overseas. Great subwoofer company period. regarding 2-20khz I felt the performance was maliciously misrepresented, fraudulent inducement rank, specially since i dumped Steinway for this crap. Adorned run of the mil QSC cinema speakers. If you care to know what I really think of these. Let me not distract everyone with a 3 page litany of grievances. Walter and the Alcons owner stopped short of regurgitating on that demo. Mitigating performance aspects besides the awesome subs, high dynamics, but we all know by know horns are no longer needed for that!

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post #2796 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 11:09 AM
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Cool

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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Peter, any information on when we will see Dirac 2 out for the masses? My last chat with datasat had me confused as they said not even they have it working, which was a day after I had seen your vid with Mike talking about how he uses both. Lol
No, not really but 2:30 am Thursday morning before opening Mike Smith and Mike Schurtz (?) the premiere Dirac 2 calibrators in tandem.


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post #2797 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 11:44 AM
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Read all about it here. This Job boosted their sales tremendously specially overseas. Great subwoofer company period. regarding 2-20khz I felt the performance was maliciously misrepresented, fraudulent inducement rank, specially since i dumped Steinway for this crap. Adorned run of the mil QSC cinema speakers. If you care to know what I really think of these. Let me not distract everyone with a 3 page litany of grievances. Walter and the Alcons owner stopped short of regurgitating on that demo. Mitigating performance aspects besides the awesome subs, high dynamics, but we all know by know horns are no longer needed for that!
Thanks. However I'm confused... From your recent posts here it sounds like you have a strong dislike for the ProAudio, unless I am misunderstanding your recent posts here? I just spent a few hours reading through your entire Skoll thread from beginning to end. I was expecting to see you get to a point where you were posting about problems with the sound and that you or the client wasn't happy or problems with the EQ or whatever else that may have lead to a less than favourable outcome with the ProAudio - but I didn't come across anything at all.

Reading through it, I see where you talk about how picky you are with sound and went to great lengths to find the speakers and how you were excited to go with ProAudio. I see where you had it EQ'ed and seemed happy with it. I see where the client and friends loved the room and everyone seemed happy with its performance. So when you referred me to that thread and said I could read all about your issues with ProAudio there - I'm not seeing anything. What am I missing? Thanks!
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post #2798 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 12:13 PM
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No, not really but 2:30 am Thursday morning before opening Mike Smith and Mike Schurtz (?) the premiere Dirac 2 calibrators in tandem.
Isn't that Mike Skrzat?
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post #2799 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 12:40 PM
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Isn't that Mike Skrzat?
No wonder I can never spell it!
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post #2800 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 01:00 PM
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...Then I remeber reading about the pro audio and I explained to Larry in no uncertain terms what was expected of the system it had to sound exactly as the ATI amps with italian horn CINEPRO did. He assured it would be an order of magnitude superior. Therein lies the rub, it was not...
So you had not heard the ProAudio system before it was installed? Or you had, and it didn't sound like what you wanted?

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...the icepower amps sound somewhat muffled, the first gen did,
Are the more recent icepower amps that ProAudio is using improved compared to what you were using back then?

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and the horn sound is Harsh and fatiguing galore. I have sepnt weeks in that cinema and the fatigue effect is stressing.
I am curious if your client was concerned about it. In reading your review thread everyone sounded really happy with the performance of the system.

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By comparison at 112 deibels the new systems you can listen for weeks and come out as if you had a massage, many attendees to the immersion 2025 expressed surprise we played so realistic and essentially felt what I refer to as emerging out of the demo as having had a massage session. I swear.
What "new systems" are you talking about? What speakers/manufacturers? I assume you do not mean the latest ProAudio and their amps.

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...From the bottom of my heart, want a great system? look at Quested and look at Alcons, if another one comes around which I feel is better I will be the first to voice that, just as I almost jumped ship with my fellow would be rats here that like the house sound of datasat a lot but demand high channel counts. I have been quiet about this for several reasons but after the vomitif CEDIA session its hard to contain the guilt. I needed to break my silence.
What CEDIA session are you talking about? The ProAudio demo at CEDIA 2015 that just passed?

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...I will say one thing, I have Champagne taste with beer pockets so why don't you go listen for yourself?
I did. I heard the ProAudio setup at CEDIA 2015 and thought it sounded fantastic. However I am relatively new to the world of high fidelity audio so I haven't heard enough systems to know where it really ranks. When I read about your opinion on the ProAudio it gives me pause as it should, so I am trying to understand the specifics of your situation to know if it also applies to my situation. For example, if part of the issue had to do with older ice amps that are now replaced and better, perhaps some of your concerns have been addressed...?

Regarding the Alcons - were these speakers used in the JBL Synthesis room at CEDIA 2015? If so, I thought they sounded very good overall, but for my particular tastes that may have sounded a bit too bright. I was sitting on the floor in front of the first row, so that may have impacted my impression.

As a side note - I am wondering - have you heard Procella speakers and if so how do you think they compare to the ProAudio? Do you like the JBL Pro horns?
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post #2801 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 01:19 PM
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So you had not heard the ProAudio system before it was installed? Or you had, and it didn't sound like what you wanted?



Are the more recent icepower amps that ProAudio is using improved compared to what you were using back then?



I am curious if your client was concerned about it. In reading your review thread everyone sounded really happy with the performance of the system.



What "new systems" are you talking about? What speakers/manufacturers? I assume you do not mean the latest ProAudio and their amps.



What CEDIA session are you talking about? The ProAudio demo at CEDIA 2015 that just passed?



I did. I heard the ProAudio setup at CEDIA 2015 and thought it sounded fantastic. However I am relatively new to the world of high fidelity audio so I haven't heard enough systems to know where it really ranks. When I read about your opinion on the ProAudio it gives me pause as it should, so I am trying to understand the specifics of your situation to know if it also applies to my situation. For example, if part of the issue had to do with older ice amps that are now replaced and better, perhaps some of your concerns have been addressed...?

Regarding the Alcons - were these speakers used in the JBL Synthesis room at CEDIA 2015? If so, I thought they sounded very good overall, but for my particular tastes that may have sounded a bit too bright. I was sitting on the floor in front of the first row, so that may have impacted my impression.

As a side note - I am wondering - have you heard Procella speakers and if so how do you think they compare to the ProAudio? Do you like the JBL Pro horns?
Listen to what gary reber had to say about the special uncompressed demo we did with datasat and alcons only 3 showings at cedia total in Barco booth.. Mark My words PERCEPTION is learned, we spent 6.5 million to find the best.

also read this other thread on the alcons audio. I my firend might just have saved your life, at least your ears for sure. Hindsight is 2020.

I am going to shower pick up my catch of the day sashimi, pick up my wheatgrass, grab a few habanos and answer your questions which are no longer relevant you will see.

I will answer the above question in a couple of hours, but by then you will be a fatigue free high spl convert. I believe I saw your email, if so I will send you literature as well we can carry the discussion further. Thanks for the persistence, I have saved your neck. Promise.
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post #2802 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 03:22 PM
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I'm sure JBL had JBL speakers. It sounded very good but I wished they would have pushed just a hair to see if there was any breakdown.

To me PROAUDIOTECH is harsh and a bit uncomfortable to listen to at high volumes. I think the highs are lacking. I think for the price one can do better.

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post #2803 of 3113 Old 10-24-2015, 04:34 PM
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Cool To Put a Face and a voice with Mike Miles before powernap.

Loving,

This is what Mike had to say at the hard to see IMMERSION 2025 Barco/Datasat-Auro/Alcons demo after seeing the compressed 5.1 48/16 DCI 2d 4k Demo that looked great but paled with the AUROMATIC upconverted 12.1 3D 96/24 uncompressed demo. Thanks Mike! I wholly concur with your harshness assessment although Dirac does tame it some. Although the 100% improvement gave the impression that we tweaked, wee did not Tweak anything just enabling 3D on the projector allowed us to play superior immersive 3D audio, even blu ray 2d the night before (played through the player that needed laser reboot to work) the show sounded awesome, best tank battle ever!!! But don't make fun of my laugh. Walter says at the end SPEECHLESS.



As I told you in the email I will take a 4 hour nap and come back to the discussion, you have sufficient material to see how we have Progressed from Point A (SKOLL) all the way through the different moons to point G (our cedia demo) with your reading assignments. Best! till then.

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post #2804 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 02:57 AM
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Tried to do a Dirac measurement but failed on the laptop that used to work properly. The only difference is that now it's running Windows 10. Is Windows 10 incompatible with the Dirac 1 software or the USBPre2 drivers? I uninstalled and reinstalled the driver but that did not help. When I try to the start the measurement after selecting the channels I get an error message (can't set up proxy or something like that) and game over.
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post #2805 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 04:04 AM
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Tried to do a Dirac measurement but failed on the laptop that used to work properly. The only difference is that now it's running Windows 10. Is Windows 10 incompatible with the Dirac 1 software or the USBPre2 drivers? I uninstalled and reinstalled the driver but that did not help. When I try to the start the measurement after selecting the channels I get an error message (can't set up proxy or something like that) and game over.
Are you using the Datasat mic kit or just the Datasat software and your own mic? Thanks!

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post #2806 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 05:04 AM
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Are you using the Datasat mic kit or just the Datasat software and your own mic? Thanks!
My mic (Earthworks).
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post #2807 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 05:07 AM
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And is it calibrated for 90 degrees?
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post #2808 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 06:14 AM
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My mic (Earthworks).
I assume a mic preamp, too. And any old router? What is the physical set up to do a calibration with your own equipment? Thanks!

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post #2809 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 06:49 AM
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I assume a mic preamp, too. And any old router? What is the physical set up to do a calibration with your own equipment? Thanks!

Same as we use, but calibrated for greater accuracy.
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post #2810 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 06:54 AM
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Tried to do a Dirac measurement but failed on the laptop that used to work properly. The only difference is that now it's running Windows 10. Is Windows 10 incompatible with the Dirac 1 software or the USBPre2 drivers? I uninstalled and reinstalled the driver but that did not help. When I try to the start the measurement after selecting the channels I get an error message (can't set up proxy or something like that) and game over.
When I got my Datasat training, I was very specifically told that Dirac prefers Windows XP but will work (usually) with Windows 7, which is what I use. I don't think it has anything to do with the mic preamp or mic. i would email Datasat and ask them.

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post #2811 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 07:03 AM
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In adding some new speakers for Atmos, when I re-run DIRAC, does it wipe out specific EQ settings (for example in the subs)?

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post #2812 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 08:14 AM
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And is it calibrated for 90 degrees?
Not specifically, but they are supposed to have little deviation concerning direction of sound. Anyway, with height speakers it's not 90 which are required.
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post #2813 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 08:16 AM
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I assume a mic preamp, too. And any old router? What is the physical set up to do a calibration with your own equipment? Thanks!
mic + usbpre2 + software from Datasat.
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post #2814 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 09:15 AM
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Will the RS20i do 9.x.4 with Atmos or limited to 7.x.4/9.x.2 since it is DSP based?
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post #2815 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 09:28 AM
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Will the RS20i do 9.x.4 with Atmos or limited to 7.x.4/9.x.2 since it is DSP based?
It is DSP based. You can create "pseudo channels" by copying the input from a real channel to another output channel and playing with trim and distance. For example, you could copy the front left (or maybe surround left) input to a wide left output and reduce the trim to "simulate" a wide channel. But, like every other DSP based processor, it's input is limited to 7.x.4.

Eventually, one hopes that the DSP abilities will be expanded to more channels!!!

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post #2816 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 09:47 AM
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It is DSP based. You can create "pseudo channels" by copying the input from a real channel to another output channel and playing with trim and distance. For example, you could copy the front left (or maybe surround left) input to a wide left output and reduce the trim to "simulate" a wide channel. But, like every other DSP based processor, it's input is limited to 7.x.4.

Eventually, one hopes that the DSP abilities will be expanded to more channels!!!
I'm planning on doing such to add a second set of side surrounds.

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post #2817 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 11:09 AM
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I'm planning on doing such to add a second set of side surrounds.
In that case, you may want to consider "grouping" those two output channels

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post #2818 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 11:23 AM
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In that case, you may want to consider "grouping" those two output channels
Grouping? I think I have some homework to do! Or is it that difficult? Id there a step-by-step manual?

Thanks!

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post #2819 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 12:07 PM
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Maybe grouping is not the official name for this feature (I'm not in front of the manual - which you may want to download if u have not already). It is where you tell the system to treat two (or more I guess) output channels as one. When you do this, you do give up the ability to obtain all of the functionallity of Dirac on those combined channels. Don't hold me to this since I'm not in front of the manual, but I believe you only get correction in the frequency domain and not the time or phase domain.

If u do download the manual, make sure it corresponds to the version of the software u r using.

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post #2820 of 3113 Old 10-26-2015, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post
Tried to do a Dirac measurement but failed on the laptop that used to work properly. The only difference is that now it's running Windows 10. Is Windows 10 incompatible with the Dirac 1 software or the USBPre2 drivers? I uninstalled and reinstalled the driver but that did not help. When I try to the start the measurement after selecting the channels I get an error message (can't set up proxy or something like that) and game over.
Could be your Java version. I found Dirac 1 did not work on my laptop with Java beyond the whole number version (6?) supplied on the disc from Datasat.

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