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Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)

461K views 7K replies 211 participants last post by  lesuisse01 
#1 · (Edited)
About time we start a RS20i owners therad. Dan Francis did a great job in the Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! and I am sure we are all appreciative of the effort that was involved to get that comparison setup and completed. Thank you Dan.

This thread is to be used for owners and potential owners to ask questions about the RS20i. I am not one to set rules, but questions about setup , features and EQ calibration is certainly welcome. Also , anyone who has become familiar with the unit please don't hesitate to post any tips for users or potential users.

A general overview of the unit can be had at DataSat

A PDF brochure of the RS20i.

Datasat and Auro Technologies agreement take luxury home cinema audio to new 'heights' Auro-3D®

Auro 3D Official Homepage

User Manual







.

The below link is for those who want to use REW to measure their room.
REW for use with HDMI and 8 channal setup guide.
PDF setup Guide


DATASAT EXPANSION CARD UPDATE.
Quote:Originally Posted by Carl_Huff 


DATASAT EXPANSION CARD
We are pleased to announce the Datasat Expansion Card, which will unlock a whole host of new features on the RS20i audio processor. At the heart of this new card are two additional powerful DSPs to bring the total DSP power to 8 chips for the most powerful processing available.
The Datasat Expansion Card includes the following:
NEW DECODERS
The following new decoders are in addition to the existing Dolby Digital, DTS and DTS HDMA decoders.
Dolby Technologies
• Dolby Digital Plus NEW
• Dolby Pro Logic IIz NEW
• Dolby Pro Logic IIx NEW
• Dolby TrueHD NEW
DTS Technologies
• DTS Neo:X NEW
NEW SPEAKER CONFIGURATIONS UP TO 11.1
DTS Neo:X supports front wide and front height speakers (up to 11.1). Dolby TrueHD supports front height speakers (up to 9.1). The Datasat Expansion Card increases the number of speaker configurations to 11 plus phantom centre.
RS20i Speaker Configurations will include:
2.0 (L, R)
3.0 (L, R, C)
4.0 (L, R, Ls, Rs)
5.1 (L, R, C, Ls, Rs, Sw)
7.1h (5.1 + L height, R height) NEW
7.1w (5.1 + L wide, R wide) NEW
9.1hw (5.1 + L height, R height, L wide, R wide) NEW
7.1 (L, R, C, Ls, Rs, Lbs, Rbs, Sw)
9.1h (7.1 + L height, R height) NEW
9.1w (7.1 + L wide, R wide) NEW
11.1hw (7.1 + L height, R height, L wide, R wide) NEW
DTS NEO:X NEW
DTS NEO:X can upmix to any of the speaker configurations. NEW
DTS NEO:X can be applied to all decoded streams: 2/6/8ch PCM, DTS 2.0/5.1/7.1 and Dolby 2.0/5.1/7.1. NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIx/z NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIx works for 7.1. NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIz can be configured for 9.1h adding the front height. NEW
Dirac Live
An additional 4 channels of Dirac will be added (16 in total). NEW
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff





If I am missing anything fell free to say so.
The main objective of the thread is to get the collective information on the RS20i in one thread so as well can really benefit from this unit great features.
 
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#3,248 ·
And most of my bugs were fixed with multiple full power cycles.

But the one that persists is most annoying. When I turn the unit on its all set to auro. In bass management and decoding. Works fine with coax input from my music streamer. I then turned on the oppo 103d which has my TiVo box running thru it. And the audio, like yesterday, is all slow, processed and sounds like a robot version of Barry White. I can fix this by going to bass management and selecting any other setting, eg auro 11.1, and then selecting auro 13.1 again. Then I have to go to decoder setup and set it to auro again as it now sets it to non when you change anything in bass management.
 
#3,249 ·
One of the issues I have been having is that even if I have not checked the boxes to use the Dirac delay and levels, when I upload a new set of filters, it changes almost all of the levels to 10. As it turns out (as told to me by Datasat), this is apparently a random issue that seems to be a combination of the PC running and the specific RS20i??? So I get to redo all of the manual level settings when that happens. I need to copy all of those to another temporary input before running Dirac I guess and then copy them back.

Watching the front panel while playing some aggressive action demos, I noticed the LFE bar went pinkish/reddish on a number of occasions which, I assume, means clipping the input signal??? If so, what is the solution to keep that from occurring?
 
#3,250 ·
when I upload a new set of filters, it changes almost all of the levels to 10. As it turns out (as told to me by Datasat), this is apparently a random issue that seems to be a combination of the PC running and the specific RS20i???
Its an issue which appears with some Macs, but not all. It has not been seen on Windoze as far as I know, but could theoretically happen. Did 1.00.02 beta1 of the Dirac software not help with this?
 
#3,252 ·
Sounds like we should leave at current DIRAC version.
 
#3,254 ·
Hi deyre


I am making an assumption that you may have some affiliation with Datasat because of the great information you are sharing. If so, it is fantastic to see your contributions and hopefully this forum will not 'turn on you' like it appears we do with many other reps (although contributors to this thread has always welcomed input from members previously linked to Datasat such as Dan).


Considering past behaviour I also understand if you can neither confirm or deny any association with Datasat!


If my assumption is wrong then your help is still equally great to get:)
 
#3,275 ·
@deyre

I'd like to echo Stephen's sentiments in welcoming you to the thread. I also assume you are a Datasat employee given your knowledge of the recent beta firmware releases you have been helping Nick with.

Please feel free to introduce yourself, we don't bite (. . . very often! lol)

Perhaps as my first direct question can I ask, given that the Atmos boards are now fully released, do you have any timescale for the DTS:X firmware release?
 
#3,255 ·
I finally got enough things working correctly on my RS20i to watch my first full movie this evening (James Bond/Spectre) and while there are still some issues to work through, I made a great decision to finally purchase this product. It is absolutely incredible. While I have done some RS20i calibrations for others and did one for me a year or so ago, this is the first time I have been able to go through an entire film in my theater. What fun that was. A sonic master piece - sound everywhere. The bass needs some work [I have been experimenting with the target curve generated by Harmon -- see their concept chart below]. It has great promise (for movies, not music), but I made it a bit too hot.

The corrected frequency response of all of the speakers is much better than expected --- and significantly better than what I was able to previously obtain. I have attached some plots of the left front speaker. The red is with no correction. The blue is what Audyssey Pro did (my previous SSP was a Marantz 7702) and the black is what the RS20i did (using both Output Preset PEQ’s and Dirac). It is not an exact apples to apples comparison as I measured with Dirac about 3 to 5 inches closer toward the MLP when I did the outside measurements. The black is about as close to a straight line as you might imagine. Also, the roll off of the curve from 10K up is a bit steeper with Audyssey as that was the target curve I used in Audyssey Pro. I will be adding a bit more slope to all non-LFE channel targets.

Also, the Audyssey curve has the dip between 1K and 2K and the Dirac plot does not - but I am going to use that dip for movies but not music.



Here is the Harmon target curve I was referencing (and no, I don't know what the red line represents):

 
#3,260 ·
OK, so I finally got the Atmos card installed and running last nice on my RS20i, and I have to say I'm pleased - thank goodness given the immense wait for this card! So I thought I'd share some initial thoughts . . .

I set up three input buttons so I could quick swap between three different output presets on the fly from the home screen. The first was my usual Auro 15.1, the second was Atmos 7.1.4 with front height and rear height and the third was Atmos 5.1.6 with top front, top middle, top rear and the rear surrounds routed to the same output as the side surrounds. For some reason I couldn't get front height, top middle, rear height to work - not sure why at this stage?

This was all a really quick set-up, doing some rough adjustments by ear, and bearing in mind my speaker positions are far from the recommended Atmos elevation positions particularly on the 5.1.6 set-up where the front and rear height couldn't be set-up to the closer matching front and rear height options (rather than top front and top rear), but even on that I got some pretty impressive sound from my system.

I played through a few clips from my Kal Cinema one with native Atmos, including Mad Max, John Wick, Mocking Jay Part 1, Insurgent and Jupiter Ascending. They all varied and on occasion, there was very little coming from the height channels (easily confirmed when I muted all other channels), however what struck me was the significant increase in precision in sound and localisation in effects.

For me 5.1.6 didn't really work. The additional pair of heights in play did seem to give a slightly smoother pass over of effects, though I think that was somewhat nullified by having to use Top front/Top rear options, where Front height/Rear height would have been a closer match to my speaker positions. Worse than this though is the routing of the rear surrounds to the side surrounds (to play as a combined pairs/arrays) was an instant loss in resolution. Whether this was because effects could not track correctly around the rear sound stage (as they would with four discrete speakers in play), or because the use of two speakers playing as an array diminished the precision in sound, I'm not sure, but either way it didn't work in its current form. I'll try tweaking to see if I can improve it, including re-running Dirac with them combined in pairs - but at this point I would recommend anyone planning to run arrays for Atmos to reconsider.

On balance native Atmos was a welcome improvement over Auro upmixing, but one of my key aims was to compare Auro upmixing to DSU upmixing, and for me it turned out to be a trade off between the two and not as clear cut in favour of Auro as I was anticipating. Auro clearly creates a more ambient soundscape, perhaps because more speakers are firing and those speakers are playing more content, but you feel completely enveloped in the sound in a full hemisphere centred on the MLP. However whilst DSU sacrifices some of that ambient effect, it delivers significantly greater resolution in sound, resulting in it placing effects with far more precision within your personal space that Auro ever has.

Two good examples I tried were from Hunger Games - Catching Fire (Archery Training and Jabberjacks scenes). As the shots fire past Katniss's head in the archery training they more generally pass by you with Auro, whereas with DSU it is possible to much more clearly track their passage through your room in a really impressive way. Likewise with the Jabberjacks scene, with Auro, whilst it is possible to identify the individual jabberjacks flying around screaming it appears more as a wall of sounds panning around you, whereas with DSU, you can actually clearly hear each separate screaming bird, in a much more three dimensional way that invades your personal space much more, and frankly makes it more exciting and engaging.

Similarly on Oblivion (Jack encounters the Scavs scene), as he descends down the hole, and you can hear the dripping water in the rear soundstage, this is much more diffuse and less precise with Auro, whereas with DSU its crystal clear and again more three dimensional. Similarly with front of screen sounds such as dialogue when Victoria is speaking into the mic, or from the whine of the cable coming from the bike as Jack descends into the hole; with Auro the sound comes from those two general areas of the screen (generally centre of the screen, and generally to the left or the screen respectively), whereas with DSU, the sound is tightly locked to Victoria's mouth and to the bike respectively.

This latter point obviously isn't a specific feature of DSU since the vanilla 7.1 track will show a similar improvements in resolution over Auro, but of course DSU now adds in the height effects to that with similar precision, giving (for me) an almost ideal middle ground of hemispherical immersion and resolution. I have always preferred Auro over the vanilla 7.1 tracks because of the significant jump up in overall immersion it provides and have, to date, been willing to accept the loss in resolution as a result, but in the short testing I have done, even with less than ideal Atmos speaker positions, I find myself revelling in the increased resolution and three dimensionality with DSU, and on balance I think I am willing to sacrifice that small additional amount of hemispherical ambience in order to get it.

Anyway, that's just my 2c/2p, take it with as many grains of salt as you wish at this early stage of testing - I still have a lot of playing around to do!
 
#3,271 ·
OK, so I finally got the Atmos card installed and running last nice on my RS20i, and I have to say I'm pleased - thank goodness given the immense wait for this card! So I thought I'd share some initial thoughts . . .

I set up three input buttons so I could quick swap between three different output presets on the fly from the home screen. The first was my usual Auro 15.1, the second was Atmos 7.1.4 with front height and rear height and the third was Atmos 5.1.6 with top front, top middle, top rear and the rear surrounds routed to the same output as the side surrounds. For some reason I couldn't get front height, top middle, rear height to work - not sure why at this stage?
When routing back surrounds to side surrounds will the back surrounds have the wrong Dirac correction (back instead of side)? I have a 15.1 Auro too except I have no VOG (e.g. 14.1). VOG can not be defined as phantom, can it?
 
#3,263 ·
@Wookii: I did a similar test to compare AuroMatic and DSU when I had my Marantz. If you do what I did, you will learn why they sound the way they do. Turn off your bed level speakers and play music through both upmixers just through the ceiling/top speakers. With AuroMatic, you will hear an IDENTICAL copy of the bed level speakers but reduced in output and with delay added. And that is why it sounds larger. Think if a 5.1 system but increase the delay of the rear speakers - same idea.

DSU sounds nothing like that. Somehow it decides what to put into the top speakers and seems to do a more distinct job. Both upmixers have their fans, but like you, I much prefer DSU.
 
#3,274 · (Edited)
On balance 7.1.4 so far. The extra discrete rear channels definitely help with the tracking of sounds around the rear sound stage versus 5.1.6, and have more of an impact that the additional two height channels, probably because there is far more being sent to them than the height channels.

One thing I haven't checked is how many of the speakers receive a signal from DSU with the 5.1.6 set-up, I'll try and remember to check that tonight.

Obviously in an ideal world 9.1.6 would be even better and give the best of both worlds on native content, but we'll presumably have to wait until 2020 for a new card and a few more grand down for that!

I can see how adding more channels adds to the resolution and greater definition of effects. It would be nice to be able to go to 12.1.10, I think I could just about get away with that in my relatively small room, though it would be somewhat pointless given that they are not all used as bed channels, and if they are not used by any of the Dolby or DTS upmixers.
 
#3,277 ·
After months of waiting and waiting....


Holly Mackerel I was able to enter 7 new or atmos upgrade orders and they all shipped in 4 days. Call Guiness!


Thank you Super Steve!!!
Those 7 customers are going to love you!!
 
#3,279 ·
So, is there a PDF for set up? Mapping the speakers, etc? Download new software??

Thanks Peter!
 
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#3,280 ·
I think the new RS20i/Atmos firmware is 1.04. I have found no PDF but during setup (speaker size, crossover, etc), you setup the base level speakers on one screen and on another, you tell it where the Atmos speakers are and set them up. Straight forward.
 
#3,281 ·
OK. Good to know. My card is coming today.

I think Everest is my first flick to try out!

I have Top Fronts, top sides, and top rears. SHould I set up the 'Front Height' speakers to my 'side heights' (over my head) or top Fronts that are 8' forward of my main listening position.
 
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#3,294 · (Edited)
Couple Things RE: Atmos Firmware Install

I got a bad thumb drive and the software will not load.

I tried to find software on server but can't seem to get it to display - what is the trick to doing so?

Or, can someone PM me and let me know if they can email me the software.. V1.0.4

Thanks!!
 
#3,296 ·
Thanks... See above... Need a new firmware.
 
#3,298 · (Edited)
Tried it. No luck. Might be my router blocking out or their server is down... or you have to have a V-1.0.4 installed to see firmwares related to Atmos. I have V1.0.3x installed and I get no firmware showing.

Thanks!

**If anyone could PM me their email address and get me a copy of the latest firmware, much appreciated! :0
 
#3,306 ·
Gotcha. Thanks! Yes set up was easy but I have to install front heights - I sold my LT-10 Front Heights and will place a smaller speaker up there - hopefully tomorrow and can test all out.

Thanks!
 
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#3,313 ·
Installing the RS20i in a Middle Atlantic Rack

I have my RS20i in a Middle Atlantic Rack. What is the trick to neatly and safely handle and hide/mount/install the 16 XLR connectors at the RS20i end?

Thanks.
 
#3,314 ·
I have my RS20i in a Middle Atlantic Rack. What is the trick to neatly and safely handle and hide/mount/install the 16 XLR connectors at the RS20i end?

Thanks.
Are you not plugging the XLR's directly into your amps? or are you just referring to the birds nest bundle of wires that remains after doing so? If the latter, I have tried at length, unsuccessfully, to make them look neat and tidy, but may at some point get one of these to cable tie them to:

http://www.middleatlantic.com/products/accessories/horizontal-cable-management/lbp-serieshorizontal-lacer-bars.aspx
 
#3,319 ·
Umm.. with a $20K+ piece of hardware... why not $250 cables??? That's what I'm using (DB-25 - XLR).:D
 
#3,320 ·
But for what I would want each channel (XLR connector + cable) would be EXACT custom length. If you know an incredibly qualified individual who will do all custom length 16 channels for $250, let me know!!
 
#3,323 ·
I thought they used to offer non-Tascam, at least for DB-25->XLR. If they don't now it's a moot point.
 
#3,325 ·
I talked to Datasat on the cable issue: The RS20i analog cables are non-standard and the reason is that the RS20i was based on the AP20 platform which is a commercial Cinema product, and in that space they had to interface with equipment made by Dolby, so at the time it was easier to align their pinouts to Dolby's which worked out quite well. When they entered the Home market they decided not to change the pin out since that would cause confusion and multiple part numbers for cables etc.

Datasat does offer a 6 foot version of those cables and I was provided clever by a way by my dealer to get the clean look I desired in my rack. So all is well.
 
#3,327 ·
Today is the day, I finally get to play with my RS-20i and Atmos - I'm going to try the Fronts as Front Heights and try them as Front Tops as well as substitute in Top Middle vs Top Rear for the rear pair of heights (as I have three sets of speakers on the ceiling to engage for the 2 pairs of heights I have through Atmos).
 
#3,330 ·
But my guess would be they are Tascam compatible which means they are not Datasat compatible.

I am waiting for one company to provide me a quote but if they are high, I will buy the 6 foot cables from Datasat. At least I know they will work!!
 
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