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Official DataSat RS20i thread. (Setup Tips, Questions,General Info, etc)

461K views 7K replies 211 participants last post by  lesuisse01 
#1 · (Edited)
About time we start a RS20i owners therad. Dan Francis did a great job in the Datasat RS20i BETA test and comparison with ADA Rhapsody/Trinnov TEQ-12!!!! and I am sure we are all appreciative of the effort that was involved to get that comparison setup and completed. Thank you Dan.

This thread is to be used for owners and potential owners to ask questions about the RS20i. I am not one to set rules, but questions about setup , features and EQ calibration is certainly welcome. Also , anyone who has become familiar with the unit please don't hesitate to post any tips for users or potential users.

A general overview of the unit can be had at DataSat

A PDF brochure of the RS20i.

Datasat and Auro Technologies agreement take luxury home cinema audio to new 'heights' Auro-3D®

Auro 3D Official Homepage

User Manual







.

The below link is for those who want to use REW to measure their room.
REW for use with HDMI and 8 channal setup guide.
PDF setup Guide


DATASAT EXPANSION CARD UPDATE.
Quote:Originally Posted by Carl_Huff 


DATASAT EXPANSION CARD
We are pleased to announce the Datasat Expansion Card, which will unlock a whole host of new features on the RS20i audio processor. At the heart of this new card are two additional powerful DSPs to bring the total DSP power to 8 chips for the most powerful processing available.
The Datasat Expansion Card includes the following:
NEW DECODERS
The following new decoders are in addition to the existing Dolby Digital, DTS and DTS HDMA decoders.
Dolby Technologies
• Dolby Digital Plus NEW
• Dolby Pro Logic IIz NEW
• Dolby Pro Logic IIx NEW
• Dolby TrueHD NEW
DTS Technologies
• DTS Neo:X NEW
NEW SPEAKER CONFIGURATIONS UP TO 11.1
DTS Neo:X supports front wide and front height speakers (up to 11.1). Dolby TrueHD supports front height speakers (up to 9.1). The Datasat Expansion Card increases the number of speaker configurations to 11 plus phantom centre.
RS20i Speaker Configurations will include:
2.0 (L, R)
3.0 (L, R, C)
4.0 (L, R, Ls, Rs)
5.1 (L, R, C, Ls, Rs, Sw)
7.1h (5.1 + L height, R height) NEW
7.1w (5.1 + L wide, R wide) NEW
9.1hw (5.1 + L height, R height, L wide, R wide) NEW
7.1 (L, R, C, Ls, Rs, Lbs, Rbs, Sw)
9.1h (7.1 + L height, R height) NEW
9.1w (7.1 + L wide, R wide) NEW
11.1hw (7.1 + L height, R height, L wide, R wide) NEW
DTS NEO:X NEW
DTS NEO:X can upmix to any of the speaker configurations. NEW
DTS NEO:X can be applied to all decoded streams: 2/6/8ch PCM, DTS 2.0/5.1/7.1 and Dolby 2.0/5.1/7.1. NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIx/z NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIx works for 7.1. NEW
Dolby Pro Logic IIz can be configured for 9.1h adding the front height. NEW
Dirac Live
An additional 4 channels of Dirac will be added (16 in total). NEW
_____________
Best Regards,
Carl Huff





If I am missing anything fell free to say so.
The main objective of the thread is to get the collective information on the RS20i in one thread so as well can really benefit from this unit great features.
 
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#4,337 ·
The player will down sample the DSD stream when it fails to sense compatibility in the HDMI chain.
Downsampling works for me. Thanks.
 
#4,340 · (Edited)
I think it was set to DSU. Do you think there is a change, if I set the RS20i to Auro? I wonder why? But I will try it. Thanks for the hint.

I am just curious what will be the difference? The DSD data is decoded in the player and sent as PCM data to the RS20i OR the DSD data is sent directly to the RS20i and has to be decoded in the RS20i into PCM. This was the question - as far as I understood it. What will change about this, if I turn the RS20i to Auro or DTS? And what is wrong with the DSU?

I mean, I will check it but I switched the Oppo back from DSD to Auto - with DSU enabled on the RS20i - and I could hear sound. Before, not.

The basic question was, can the RS20i decode DSDs? And - as far as I know - it can't. Only may be via the USB port and then only in stereo. I haven't tried this, because it is of no interest to me.
 
#4,341 ·
Well, it took nearly two weeks but I've now read through most of this thread... I picked it up in early 2014 when the Atmos upgrade was "just around the corner". Thanks for all the great information! I'm considering purchasing an RS20i from an ex-coworker of mine and have a number of questions...

1. Is it possible to load more than 1 set of Dirac filters on to the RS20i so they can be changed out without the Dirac software? I would like to feed two totally different speaker sets with the RS20i and would like to switch between "Room A" and "Room B" Dirac/EQ settings. If I understand it correctly, I will need to set up virtual inputs for each room configuration with the proper filters/EQ applied to the input channels, and then route them to the appropriate output channels depending on which room I would like to feed. One room has the option of being fed via the digital outputs, however the unit has the additional output module so I could conceivably wire two separate 7.1.4 systems to it ("Room A" to outputs 1-12, "Room B" to outputs 13-24"). I realize that I cannot use both rooms simultaneously like a traditional Zone 1/Zone 2 setup.

2. Does anyone have the latest manual? The newest one I can find is for version 1.02, dated March 2015 (pre Atmos).

3. Further to #1 , can the Analog and digital outputs be separately enabled/disabled, or muted? Or are they always both live?

4. Can the digital outputs have their volume control disabled (i.e. always remain at full output)?

Thanks in advance... I can't wait to give this piece a listen.
 
#4,342 · (Edited)
Yep, you should give this piece a listen. It is really great, if not marvelous - sound wise.

1. The concept of the RS20i is a bit different as you assume. Dirac is applied to all output ports and you can't have it on specific channels. It applies to all channels but you can have about 20 storage spaces for different measurements. I use it to switch from no screen and with screen e.g. but with the same set of speakers.

2. I have some addendum's to the 1.02 manual, describing the additions. There is no full manual, as far as I am aware of. However, if you have your RS20i, you can ask Datasat directly for additional manuals, above 1.02. Or I can sent them to you.

3. The digital output can be switched on and off independently. But there was a limitation in the resolution in kHz, if you use the digital output, if I remember correctly. It should be in the 1.02 manual.

4. As far as I know, not. The volume control applies to all outputs.
 
#4,343 ·
1. The concept of the RS20i is a bit different as you assume. Dirac is applied to all output ports and you can't have it on specific channels. It applies to all channels but you can have about 20 storage spaces for different measurements. I use it to switch from no screen and with screen e.g. but with the same set of speakers.
Dirac is actually applied to input channels and not output channels. And actually you can have some channels with Dirac and some not. When you set up the channels to run Dirac, you can exclude those you don't want it applied to. In my case, (for reasons not necessary to this discussion) I don't apply Dirac to my subs (I use PEQ's only).

There is a huge advantages to this for me. I never change the position of my bed level (or height) speakers but I continue to experiment with different sub positions. So, I did the initial calibration without the subs. Then I did the subs calibration and stick that in the same "slot" as the other channels. When I want to move the subs around, I simply recalibrate JUST the subs, remove the old sub calibration from that slot and insert the new one. No need to recalibrate each of the other channels.. MUCH faster.
 
#4,349 · (Edited)
Anyone ever have the RS20i volume control knob come loose, quit functioning and then come off?
 
#4,412 ·
I just saw this post now as I was searching back through the thread to see where people are getting breakout cables from. Anyway, did you get this sorted out?
I had an ATC SCA2 preamp and was having a bunch of my audio buddies over. One of them goes to adjust the volume on the preamp itself and doesn't the volume knob
come off. Kind of embarrassing, lol, but at least it was just a matter of tightening the set screw.
 
#4,355 ·
This is to anyone who listens to 2 channel music but up converted to Dolby Surround:

I have a few albums that when the system should apply DS, it does not work and the music plays in 2 channel. Anyone doing this and if so, have you ever noticed this?

Thanks
 
#4,369 · (Edited)
I can show you some measurements with REW, I made on one speaker. Dirac doesn't analyze the speakers again, however, it shows you - I would call it - an idealized curve. And I have mediocre speakers which have a THX U2 license but there are really better ones in the world :rolleyes:
All measurements done with Sound Devices USBPre 2 and Earthworks M23.

I can only say that in my opinion, Dirac in the Datasat works amazing and the result is pure listening joy. Except the highs could be better but I compared this with headphones and nothing is missing.
 

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#4,370 ·
I have attached the target curve you posted and are using along with what I would do (in blue) if those were my speakers. Remember that to add just 3db gain requires doubling the amp power. It is VERY easy to blow tweeters. And the dot on your target curve at about 15K is probably 5 to 6db higher than than the Dirac measured response at the same point.
 

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#4,372 ·
Yep, agree with Chuck and Bogg, that's why I asked to see the Dirac calculated correction, to see if Dirac was in fact attempting to boost the higher frequencies that far. You are taking a bit of a risk pushing that much of an boost into the tweeter, and may be introducing some distortion at those levels. As Chuck says per 3dB increase you're doubling the amp power requirements, and at a 6dB increase you are doubling the tweeters output at those frequencies.
 
#4,373 ·
Thank you for your good advice and you are right from the technical point of view. However, I don't listen at high levels and I am happy with the sound as it is and the speakers are already old and I am thinking about a replacement anyway. I will leave it this way for the time being. After seeing these measurements, I was thinking that the tweeters are broken already. But I skipped this thought because I somehow moved to other speakers in my mind already.
 
#4,374 ·
If you want new speakers (sooner rather than later), just crank up the sound for a few moments and your wish will be granted :eek:
 
#4,376 ·
Anyone listening to 2 channel music upsampled to Dolby Surround on the RS20i (or LS10)? I like the spaciousness it adds to most music but a fair amount of music masked by whatever the upsampler is doing. One issue I had was that the 2 channel basses being copied to all channels so the bass was way over bearing. I fixed that by telling the system that all speakers other than the left and right were full range (so no bass sent to subs for them) and then setting high pass filters for the same speakers.

I tried Auro 3D and I didn't like it as well but then maybe there are some settings I can adjust.

Any help is welcome.
 
#4,377 · (Edited)
Yes, I do so too, with all kind of stereo music. Since I have set-up a 5.x.4 system I really love Atmos and especially the DSU. Never had a problem like you experienced with over bearing bass.
I cut-off all speakers at 80 Hz and send bass below 80 Hz and LFE to a stereo sub configuration. Works for me always very nice.
Before the x.4 set-up I used Auro a lot with only two height speakers in front and no lsh/rsh speakers present and liked it a lot. But since I have x.4, I didn't use it. I will try again in this new set-up.

I used Auro with the settings in 'Surround' for Preset medium, Strength 10 and Auro 3D but not native Auro, which is only for native Auro sound tracks - as far as I know. Stereo is only for playing in stereo and surround does not use the the High channels.

The settings are described in TNH687-01 Rev.A RS20i Auro option. I am using an Output Preset based on 11.1 Auro set-up, even I don't have all the speakers. I liked it a lot but currently I find DSU more convenient - don't need to change the surround settings AND the output preset. I also have only one Auro BD: Pixels.

Hope it helps.

PS I never thought, that so many speakers would give you such a good sound. I was more afraid of interferences and comb filter effects. But I have to say, since I have the x.4 set-up, it was more than worth the effort, I undertook, that I am now looking into a x.6 set-up, which is not possible with the current RS20i software. But nevertheless, thank you to Dolby, Datasat and Dirac, doing such a fine job with the Atmos implementation in the RS20i.
 
#4,378 ·
The RS20i will, apparently, not pass 4K HDR

I had a video calibrator come today to calibrate my JVC projector so that it would not only look its best for 1080P but also for 4K. And we learned that even the 4K input on the RS20 (HDMI input 4) will NOT pass HDR. Which means, it is, apparently NOT 2.2 compliant. That was a shocker and quite frankly I find it unacceptable in a $25,000 processor. That means I get to go spend another $250 for an HD Fury Integral to allow me to use the RS20i to pass HDR. That is just silly.

Anyone else run into this?
 
#4,379 ·
I had a video calibrator come today to calibrate my JVC projector so that it would not only look its best for 1080P but also for 4K. And we learned that even the 4K input on the RS20 (HDMI input 4) will NOT pass HDR. Which means, it is, apparently NOT 2.2 compliant. That was a shocker and quite frankly I find it unacceptable in a $25,000 processor. That means I get to go spend another $250 for an HD Fury Integral to allow me to use the RS20i to pass HDR. That is just silly.

Anyone else run into this?
Really? Thats surprising. I knew the port was limited to 10.2GHz so it was only able to handle 24Hz 4K content, and so doesn't have the bandwidth for 60Hz (like some UHD blu-ray player menus, or your Strato menu), but I thought it had HDCP 2.2 non the less.

To be honest the less that ideal specs of that HDMI card are the reason (well, one of them) why I never stumped up the money to upgrade to it (plus I use a Lumagen Pro anyway so only pass audio to the RS20i).

This isn't entirely Datasat's fault though as they are reliant on OEM boards from MDS who, I believe, still haven't released a full fat OEM HDMI card with 18Ghz across all ports. Trinnov are waiting on the release of exactly the same board, as probably are Theta and most other higher end SSP manufacturers who can't afford to develop their own board.

I'm not sure why it is taking MDS such a long time to get this new board out, as its been promised for some time now. I can only assume they are running into problems getting HDMI to work properly at those bandwidths - HDMI seems to be an issue everywhere you turn in this in this industry at the minute. Gods knows how they're going to manage to implement 48Ghz for HDMI 2.1! :eek:
 
#4,383 ·
As it relates to my experience of the RS20i not passing HDR, it turns out the latest HDMI card actually does not support HDR:

See the description of the card below: And, to support HDR, the spec must be 2.0a and this card only supports a "subset of 2.0"

 

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#4,388 ·
As it relates to my experience of the RS20i not passing HDR, it turns out the latest HDMI card actually does not support HDR:



See the description of the card below: And, to support HDR, the spec must be 2.0a and this card only supports a "subset of 2.0"





2.0a is only required for the signaling of HDR... ie for the player to detect if the TV is SMPTE 2084 aware and to instruct it to use an appropriate EOTF if it is. if you can force the player and display into HDR mode you may be able to get it to work even if the chain is only version 2.0.
 
#4,385 ·
I think you can look on the RS20i screens and it should tell you (I am not in front of mine at the moment).

This is not a deal breaker because the problem can be solved for about $200 using the HD Fury Integral. Since I have more than one 4K input device (Oppo, DirecTV and Amazon 4K Fire TV box) I use an Integral now to fix the problem on the other two devices (the Integral has 2 inputs and outputs). So I can get another to put between the Oppo and the RS20i.

Or, if I can solve the audio sync issues, I can run the video output of the Oppo to the projector and the audio to the RS20i.

I recognize this issue is not in the direct control of Datasat but it is frustrating nonetheless.
 
#4,386 ·
I'll check when I get things set up. If I do decide to pursue UHD then I will hook up the Oppo UHD player directly to the projector. The other sources I have such as cable and PS3 are just 1080p so I'm hoping I can plug those into the Datasat and plug the output of the Datasat into the input of the Oppo.
 
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