Red 4K Laser Projector, any news? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello guys,


it has been very quiet about this product from Red.


anyone gotany news ?



Thanks


Michael
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post #2 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 04:15 PM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394036/red-4k-3d-laser-projector-10k/0_50

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post #3 of 31 Old 12-31-2012, 07:57 AM
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They obviously have missed earlier predictions and now the only official thing they are saying is that the more expensive commercial machine will be introduced first but have given no date for that. My guess is that the home machine might hit lsate this year but i wouldn't hold my breadth.

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post #4 of 31 Old 12-31-2012, 08:03 AM
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Perhaps a sony 4k laser could be released before...rolleyes.gif
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post #5 of 31 Old 12-31-2012, 11:04 AM
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Perhaps, maybe more than perhaps, but certainly not at $15K, my predicted price for the consumer RED.

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post #6 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

They obviously have missed earlier predictions and now the only official thing they are saying is that the more expensive commercial machine will be introduced first but have given no date for that. My guess is that the home machine might hit lsate this year but i wouldn't hold my breadth.
Mark,

Saw the consumer version at their studio. Much sooner than end of the year. I'd be surprised if it wasn't out before July.
Last I heard they will make an official announcement with specs in the next 2 months.
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post #7 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 09:01 AM
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That's good news. I was just guessing but I still am a pessimist. Anything can happen re producing this thing. When will one be able to click on a box and order it and have it shipped? Say they make a small production run and ship it by July 1st. I order one in early july, when will I get ti? Late year I still It makes little difference to me exactly when. The only option right now until the Red is produced is to buy the Sony at a price higher than the Red will be and then replace bulbs. Suppose the Red costs, $15K. How big is this HT market for $15K projectors? Very tiny anyway.

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 01:27 AM
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I don't know if the market is "tiny."

The market for a $25K 4K projector like the Sony is tiny; the market for a $10K - $15K 4K projector with either a very long life or life of product light source, coupled with RED's reputation means not only would people with the means to afford the Sony likely purchase one, but so would a great many people who would otherwise be purchasing top of the line HD projectors (if you were going to purchase say, the top of the line JVC, suddenly the RED isn't as much a stretch to get double the resolution with no bulb hassles.)

What's going to be even more interesting is how many theatres (especially smaller ones/art houses) who have been budgeting for a Christie 2K or Sony 4K are drooling, waiting for the commercial version.
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 06:12 AM
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Up to me the major obstacle for the diffusion
Of this Red projector stays in the need of a
Silver screen. If Sony made a 4k laser 3d projector
Suitable for ordinary screens I would go for it even at a higher
Price... But.... When?!
I have to decide if it's better to buy now a Sony 1000 or wait for a Sony laser 4k within next months...
In February I sould go into the new house....
At CES .. Any announcement about a new Sony laser?
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post #10 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavySeal View Post

Mark,
Saw the consumer version at their studio. Much sooner than end of the year. I'd be surprised if it wasn't out before July.
Last I heard they will make an official announcement with specs in the next 2 months.

How would say the RED compares to high end 3 chip DLP and the Sony VW1000ES? Provided, of course, if you have seen the Sony or some of the more recent 3 chip models.

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post #11 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danieledmunds View Post

How would say the RED compares to high end 3 chip DLP and the Sony VW1000ES? Provided, of course, if you have seen the Sony or some of the more recent 3 chip models.
Unfortunately I have not seen anything to compare it to like you mentioned above. I saw the RedRay and the consumer projector. The only words I needed to say inside my head were "holy shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh".

Keep in mind the above statement is coming truly from a normal consumer. I know when things look good however I do not have a technical background in color space dynamics, do not own a major theater, etc. After seeing it in person I would honestly say I would PERSONALLY invest in a consumer RED projector if the cost is relatively reasonable which would be my first of its kind owning.
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post

I don't know if the market is "tiny."
The market for a $25K 4K projector like the Sony is tiny; the market for a $10K - $15K 4K projector with either a very long life or life of product light source, coupled with RED's reputation means not only would people with the means to afford the Sony likely purchase one, but so would a great many people who would otherwise be purchasing top of the line HD projectors (if you were going to purchase say, the top of the line JVC, suddenly the RED isn't as much a stretch to get double the resolution with no bulb hassles.)
What's going to be even more interesting is how many theatres (especially smaller ones/art houses) who have been budgeting for a Christie 2K or Sony 4K are drooling, waiting for the commercial version.

There will be no discounts by cash hungry mail order discounters with the Red. Red only will sell it direct. The Sony may list for $25K but I imagine most purchasers got their dealer to sell it considerably cheaper to them and hide the details from Sony.

So lets suppose the street price of a Sony is $19K. And the Red will sell for say $15K. Is that difference going to make purchasers buy a $15K projecor instead of something in the $1.5K to $4K range. How many 1000ES has Sony sold worldwide? A 1000 or something like that. How many will Red sell. per year, 2000 or 3000. Son. That is miniscule, even in Podunk.

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post #13 of 31 Old 01-07-2013, 08:19 AM
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I really don't care what price either Red or Sony 4K pjs are right now, it won't be long when other pj manufacturers jump in too and then prices will begin to lower.  Personally, I want to see 4K source material of major movies either BR or media server download, ideally in rental format at least, before I trade up to a 4K pj.  I know the upscaled 1080 material looks better, especially the larger the screen, but not good enough at current prices to dump my vw95. I would probably though open the purse strings if a 4K pj came available in the 10 to 12K range though with or without 4K source material, but I wouldn't expect that for another couple of years.

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post #14 of 31 Old 01-08-2013, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

How many will Red sell. per year, 2000 or 3000. Son. That is miniscule, even in Podunk.

Selling 2000 - 3000 of any product in a year would likely be Earth shattering for Red.
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-11-2013, 07:42 PM
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I am looking forward to these laser PJ's.
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-13-2013, 11:42 AM
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Anyone seen the LG LASER projector at CES, or was there just the announcement, as I didn't see any report following the release re-writes. Will it be at ISE?
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post #17 of 31 Old 01-20-2013, 10:22 PM
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I though it was good enough for my cyber art gallery project. The image looked decent, I did not nit pick it but rather was intrigued by the tight spacing potential.



Here are a few playing above a pool on a 65 story penthouse facing the dining room( the alternative is long throw and custom screens). The engineers have expressed reservations about humidity potential and serviceability. I don't see why these would be any different than a bulb projector re humidity.
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post #18 of 31 Old 02-26-2013, 01:12 PM
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Almost placed an order, probably will, for the Red player. According to their sales dept it Should ship within 90 days, no problem. Possibly by end of March. Now, what good is a player without a projector? It's all about 4K so you have to have a 4K projector or the entire reason for buying is useless. However, you also must have at least one screen available if a normal one won't work. It will not take anytime for consumers and commercial houses to realize that and their sales will be none. So two big items are required & with the player shipping soon. Red must be getting close to accepting preorders for the projector.

My thought first consumers to order the player will get first shot at the projector. So, my order wil be placed.

And it does look totally Cool.

Just a thought, Red knows the exact number of preorders for the player with the correlation of 100% that will be the number of projectors without any advertising campaign. I'm on my 3rd Epson in 4 years I'm thinking one top notch 4K projector for the next 5 years.
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post #19 of 31 Old 02-26-2013, 05:33 PM
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You need to spend some time on the Reduser forum. When I placed my Redray order they expectred the first batch in January and the second in february. Odemax which is dedicated to providing internet downloaded content for the player is or was to roll out in March. Now Red is saying they always intended the Redray to ship in March. That is utter BS. And I doubt they will make the end of March either. They say it is dependent on software they hired a third party to produce so they will blame the third party for not shipping it in March either.

And at CES, Ted from Red said the COMMERCIAL projector was 4 to 6 months away. That is saying nothing. And they said the commercial model which will be much more expensive than the HT one would come first. This I suspect has to do with the cost of the lasers and chip. There is no way the economics would presently allow a 10K HT machine. If it ever comes, say in at least 2 more years, it will cost more like $15K.

I presently have a 4K projector so I want the Redray player now so I will have 4K content to show on it rather than the 4K projector upscaling 1080p as it does now.

Odemax has gone totally silent. Absolutely no news since the beginning of Sundance where they said nothing except that their presenters all had the flue. Red now appears to be completely distancing themselves to their Odemax partner they were praising around Dec 1.

there is no way preference will be given to Redray buyers and they have stated that a Redray player will be built into the projector when it ships.

Preorders? Playoffs! There is no way preorders for the HT machine will happen this year and I doubt next year either.

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post #20 of 31 Old 02-27-2013, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Preorders? Playoffs! There is no way preorders for the HT machine will happen this year and I doubt next year either.
Come on, that is complete speculation from your part. You simply are in no position to make such claims.
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post #21 of 31 Old 02-27-2013, 02:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Come on, that is complete speculation from your part. You simply are in no position to make such claims.

He is speculating but considering the track record of RED he is probably not far off. The commercial version might be released within this year but RED hasn't even given an estimate on when the HT version will be available so it could be years away.
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post #22 of 31 Old 02-27-2013, 08:14 AM
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Went to place an order and "get in line" for the Red player and noticed two disclaimers. If your considering the purchase read the disclaimers. After additional research I would classify the RedPlayer as a Red specific "Media Server". You cannot play disc and it will only accept their specific coding. They sell a conversion device as an accessory but I see no way to have their server play any of the Disc in your collection. I hope I'm wrong but this is designed to be a storage/media player.

The Oppo 4K player will play and up convert to 4K, the RedRay won't. However, what it appears that Red s doing will be to make all movies shot in 4K available as a download, purchased, vs waiting for a 4K disc. If so, as movies roll out in Red 4K then the player will be the way to go to see native 4K on the big screen.

Also, lots of 4K displays will hit the market in the nex 12 months, expensive, but all new tech is.
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post #23 of 31 Old 02-27-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner View Post

Come on, that is complete speculation from your part. You simply are in no position to make such claims.


Hi. There are no real specs for either machine at this time. They do have a protype of something they have shown at NABs but it looks far from a finished product from the outside. Ted from Red gives lots of pree interviews and spews lots of words but doesn't say much. I am not saying anything bad about Red but they do believe in a lot of self promotion.

ted when asked for specifics re technology etc he says you have to ask their engineering department which is not made available. he is a major principal of the company and i can not believe his I dunno.
There are major problems in bringing a laser projector to market at a low price point and if you believe they can do it for $10K, I have a bridge to sell you, a real nice one.

Laser light sources which others hold patents on are still very expensive and there remains an economkical dsolution to speckeling plus safety issues and safety regulation. I would bet almost any amount of money a HT machine will not be forth coming this year and I have my doubts as to a commercial one although the higher price of samer may negate the high cost of a light source. I said I doubt a HT laser machine from them will ship next year. Notice I said doubt.
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post #24 of 31 Old 02-27-2013, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C17aggie View Post

Went to place an order and "get in line" for the Red player and noticed two disclaimers. If your considering the purchase read the disclaimers. After additional research I would classify the RedPlayer as a Red specific "Media Server". You cannot play disc and it will only accept their specific coding. They sell a conversion device as an accessory but I see no way to have their server play any of the Disc in your collection. I hope I'm wrong but this is designed to be a storage/media player.

The Oppo 4K player will play and up convert to 4K, the RedRay won't. However, what it appears that Red s doing will be to make all movies shot in 4K available as a download, purchased, vs waiting for a 4K disc. If so, as movies roll out in Red 4K then the player will be the way to go to see native 4K on the big screen.

Also, lots of 4K displays will hit the market in the nex 12 months, expensive, but all new tech is.

The conversion device is $20 plug in to the basic Redcine-X (I don't remember the exact name) program which is free. A license for the plug in comes with the Redray. So if you have unprotected content, you run it through the program and plug in using a computer and then put it on a USB-2 or SD card in the Red format. This can then be fed into the Redray via a USB or SD card reader which you can buy anywhere cheaply.

As a HT device playing native 4HD or 4K content, it was intended that content would be purchased by the user from a service called Odemax which is independent in ownership of Red but whom Red has partnered with. Downloads over the internet into the Redray hard drive. Much whoopy shouting when the Redray and Odemax distribution service was announced. The service was supposed to be full launch in March but Odemax has gone silent, absolutely no news as I have discussed in an earlier post and you can see from the disclaimers Red is backing away from Odemax. I hope I am wrong but I don't think Odemax will happen in part because its fees to the content providers were too high. Without a source of 4K content, the Redray player will be essentially useless to me.

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post #25 of 31 Old 03-04-2013, 03:37 PM
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I agree, there is no reason to buy a Redray at this time. I believe Red is trying to find a way to sell movies shot on their equipment. Nobody else is even talking about 4K distribution and their player, when available will be the first. Oppo 4K is more of a scaler withou 4k disc being produced. I'm thinking Red wants the ability to distribute all 4K content shot on their equipment. Just another revenue stream.
Does anyone know how long Red has been accepting preorders?

The projector, why sell it for less then what the market will bear? The Sony 4K are available all day for under 19k and I've seen them on eBay for under 15k. I would expect the initial price to be 19,999. Or the same as the Sony 1000.

Why sell a superior product for less.

Lots of 4k tvs will hit the market soon. But,,,,if a producer sees a movie in 4k, via a home projector on a large screen And with a distribution method, (world wide) hey that is extra revenue and additional incentive to shoot with Red equipment. From shooting the movie to distribution to to the cinema/home Red will own the entire process.

You guys seem to know about Reds past but at some point their future will began to materialize.

Frustrating listening to hype.
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post #26 of 31 Old 03-04-2013, 05:08 PM
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Red cameras cost a lot less than their competition forcing the competitors to lower prices and then red went even lower.

i sent an email to Odemax today saying that if they didn't answer it I would assume they are defunct and so post. i will give them a week to update something and then will cancel my Redray from Red.

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post #27 of 31 Old 03-04-2013, 05:26 PM
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What kind of content will Odemax be licensed to stream anyway? I have no interest in watching The Last Time I Saw Paris or Go For Broke in 4K! I'm assuming there's been some indication we can expect some mainstream titles?
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post #28 of 31 Old 03-05-2013, 05:32 AM
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By "we" I am assuming you mean HT end users?

They have said the service would be available to any content provider who would pay them their commission (actually the model is that Odemax charges the HT customer, takes it 30% cut, and then remits the balance to the content supplier). They have never indicated any specific content suppliers and in their wall of silence and no signs of any visable activity including answering consumer emails, I am assuming they are defunct. Maybe they will arise but I suspect a lot of the problem is how much they charge and the fact that the only reception market is ownership of a Redray player which hasn't shipped. Red originally said it would ship in January, now it is backtracking saying that they really said it would ship in March (actually Odemax not Red announced a March big rollout for Odemax with substantial news at Sundance)) and Red is setting us up for another delay by saying a March shipdate is dependent on third party software making it on time, gosh golly it is not us its the company WE hired to do the job. Blame them not WE. We is Red.

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post #29 of 31 Old 04-10-2013, 02:09 PM
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Well, NAB is not far from ending and there has been absolutely no news in reference to The Red Laser Projector. Nothing that I can find on the REDUSER web site either. I was hoping for something concrete to be announced. Maybe someone who was there can chime in. If not then I guess typical smoke from Red and it will not materialize for who knows how long if ever for Home Theater. That would be a shame of course.

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post #30 of 31 Old 04-11-2013, 02:14 AM
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I would guess they are having trouble getting the cost of the projector down to something close to what they promised it would be. Most DLP/LCOS/LCD technology is probably already patented and owned by T.I., Sony, JVC etc. and they have no reason to give away their patent licenses for cheap. I'm also suspecting that they started to realize that getting the commercial version of the projector DCI certified wouldn't be easy if even possible and it would rule out a lot of their potential customers if they can't get it certified.
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