DP HIGHlite 330-3D-HC - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-07-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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This new 3 chip DLP projector looks interesting. Is anybody going to be at CES? If so, please check this out and report back -

" 3-chip DLP® -- HIGHlite Cine 3D
Delivering up to 4500 lumens of brilliant imagery, the new HIGHlite 330-3D signals a bold expansion of DPI's already robust single-chip and 3-chip 3D projector line. Two new models are being introduced to CES attendees: a high contrast version delivering 2500 lumens and greater than 10000:1 contrast, and a high brightness version delivering 4500 lumens. Particularly noteworthy is the HIGHlite 3D's conservative price points for such advanced displays. Priced at under $30,000 MSRP with lens included, the new HIGHlite 330-3D can be configured with fixed or zoom lens options, allowing for expanded installation flexibility. "

http://www.digitalprojection.com/BrowseProjectors/SeriesList/ProjectorList/ProjectorDetail/tabid/87/ProjectorId/288/MarketTypeId/11/Default.aspx




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post #2 of 22 Old 01-07-2013, 03:07 PM
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Too bad...I was hoping it had .95 DC4 chips but, as with other budget 3-chippers, it uses the .65 chip with all the attendant shortcomings that brings. I don't see any mention of it's 3D frame rate. It's got 10bit processing so one would assume it can do 120fps in 3D, but why wouldn't they specify that?
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post #3 of 22 Old 01-08-2013, 01:40 PM
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I'm pretty sure the .95 are DC3. .67 are DC4. Splitting hairs but there it is. I've only seen one person claim there is a substantial difference between them. He was using a line scan camera and a cheap DLP IIRC. I know you are a sim dealer and pro sim, and i like them too. But I've got the "budget" (your term) 3 chippers; if $27k can be considered budget. I personally I call it "not overpriced", and its picture, which includes an invisible, rock solid implementation of dynamic black, does as good, and better in many regards than one of the larger units. So I wouldn't discount this unit too quickly. Certainly not because of the newer, albeit smaller chipset. Full disclosure from me is I sell DPI, Runco, and Sim2 and I think they all have pros and cons. I think this pj is a great option for 3chip DLP for 3D fans.


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post #4 of 22 Old 01-08-2013, 06:47 PM
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Scott. no way. There is a DC4 .95 and it was used in my Samsung SP-A900B which has now made way for my Sony VPL-vw1000ES.

There are obviously optical benefits in using a larger size chip. Issue like back plane focus enter into the equation. The cheapper 3 DLP chip machines use the smaller size chips for a reason, TI sells them for a lot lot cheaper than the DC4 .95 in a three chip set.

All these machines are basically made by the same company,which has thrown substantial financial help at DP and Runco I think as well. I believe Atlas owns DP now. It needs US vendors to sell its machine. DP has recently opened its flood gates to mail order discounters and all its machines can now be purchased at close to dealer cost on a regular basis and below normal dealer cost when it is running specials. B stock Titans, a really nice machine, can be had really cheap. Hi end installers are actively competeing with the mail order guys for every sale. DP has become a commodity line like JVC and Sony despite Sony's attempt at sure pricing. The hi end projector manufacturers are collectively in a lot of trouble and are desparate for every sale they can get and have learned to look the other way.

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post #5 of 22 Old 01-08-2013, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Scott. no way. There is a DC4 .95 and it was used in my Samsung SP-A900B which has now made way for my Sony VPL-vw1000ES.
Respectfully, I don't remember any change to the .95 DMD. If there had been one, we'd all know it as it would have been a marketing tool. 0.95 was released first hence DC3, .67 released later, DC4, IMO. As I said nomenclature is splitting hairs. I've not seen anything from TI either way. Well frankly I got my opinion from someone who would know without doubt, but as I can't quote them, I'll leave their name out of it. If you have seen something to the contrary from TI I'd like to see it, just to get our opinions in sync on that detail if nothing else. In any case, I think there are only 2 1080 DMD's whatever you want to call them. No announced version changes to either since original release. But I'm old too, could have forgot one. It's been a long time since the first one came out now.

I admit I have a cherry picked 0.67 3 chipper, but it throws a VERY nice picture, and with dynamic black, I can't say I'd trade it for a 0.95 without it.

As to the rest, I see no difference in that and any other brand as far as internet resellers go. We are on the Champion's home field here in that regard, no offense. But you are right, I sell them as cheap as the next guy LOL. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #6 of 22 Old 01-08-2013, 08:42 PM
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According to Joe, while the DC3 chip was available when he was specing the design of the SP-A800B, he chose to stick with the DC2 chip he used in the 700. When the DC4 came out, he used it in the SP-A900B because the contrast with it (undefined by Joe) jumped by 30%. The lens was improved but it really was close to the same lens just built better. So the DMD size I would think didn't change between the DC2 and DC4. So if the DC2 was .67, it would be logical to conclude the DC4 was also .67. So I guess I dunno. Everything is so secretive from TI it might be really hard to find out for sure.

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post #7 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 01:48 AM
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I'm confused. Are you guys talking about whether or not DC4 DMDs are .67" or .95"? I was under the assumption that there were only .95" DC4 DMDs. The only difference between DC4 and DC3 being the DC4 used a darker base behind the mirrors which made up the difference in contrast. From what I've read there only seem to be DC2 and DC3 .67" DMDs, but the larger .95" have DC1, DC2, DC3, and DC4 designations.

There are plenty of manufacturers that outright tell you they're using .95" DC4 DMDs.

Check out the product sheet for the Marantz VP11S2, it clearly states "Hand Selected TI DLP® .95 1080p Darkchip™ 4 x 1"

Source: http://www.projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_4136.pdf

I've never seen any manufacturer call the smaller DMD a DC4.

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post #8 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 05:49 AM
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No longer in production. Here's a slightly newer PJ spec form a Sim2 HT3000E:

LIGHT ENGINE
Technology: 1 chip DMD 0,95” 1080p DarkChip3™
Resolution: 1920 x 1080 pixels
Full BrilliantColor™ technology and new color wheel
(with primary and secondary colors)
Lamp power & life time*: 200W dimmed, 4000 hours*


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post #9 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 11:40 AM
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Actually that Sim2 model is a year older than the Marantz.

Also, just because a unit may be newer doesn't mean it has to be using the newest DMD. TI still produces DC3 and DC4 DMDs. There's a cost difference they charge manufacturers for each. So if a company wants to save a little on production cost they still have the choice.

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post #10 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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It would be interesting if someone could produce a timeline of T.I's DLP dmd's. I tried to find one via Google - no luck.

I hope someone reviews the HIGHlite Cine 3D High Contrast model.

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post #11 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 11:56 AM
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Yes, I'd like to see a TI document too. In the days of 720, when they were chancing DCx's what seemed like regularly, (and even attending CEDIA) it was available. Don't see it anymore.

Anyway, I'm sure this new PJ will be a nice unit for someone who wants 3D and 3-chip DLP. Runco has a lower wattage version too if this one is too bright (I'm in the it can't be too bright camp). The ANSI contrast with 2D will be what I'd like to see with this unit. I'm not a 3D fan, and my PJ is in-room, so I don't need that much extra HP or the accompanying heat and sound it will make.


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post #12 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 12:10 PM
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SIM2 uses .95 DC4 chips in all their current models from the NERO to the SOLO. In the absence of comparison, three .65 chips (or .67 if you prefer not to round down) will look fine. But were one to do an A-B, it would become immediately clear that three .95 DC4 chips render better black level and greater detail. I'm not a dealer, Scott, but I'm a big SIM2 fan, having owned a succession of models culminating most recently with the M.150 which uses a single .95 DC4 and three LED's. The M.150 costs about the same as a "budget" 3-chip, and as long as the screen size is less than 123", IMO this LED projector will severely trounce any and all budget 3-chippers...not even close.
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-09-2013, 12:25 PM
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Not sure what you mean by a 123" screen Diagonal, width, 2.35, 16:9. But I'll have to respectfully disagree there.


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post #14 of 22 Old 01-10-2013, 04:23 PM
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That's why it's called his opinion.

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post #15 of 22 Old 01-10-2013, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 View Post

That's why it's called his opinion.
Is that directed at Pete and I? I didn't see anyone criticizing anyone's opinion. If it was for me, respectfully disagree means I respect and acknowledge his opinion and express that mine is different. rolleyes.gif


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post #16 of 22 Old 01-10-2013, 05:25 PM
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I wasn't saying you were criticizing his opinion. My point was that his opinion on a matter like this is 100% subjective so a comment like that is pointless. wink.gif

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post #17 of 22 Old 01-11-2013, 11:46 AM
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As it happens there are a number of reviewers on both sides of the Atlantic who have arrived at the same conclusion that I have. The links to some of these reviews have been posted in the M.150 thread, and the more recent ones can be Googled. I certainly respect Scott's opinion, but I think if he had the opportunity to spend some quality time with the M.150, he might change his mind.
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-11-2013, 12:28 PM
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I'm subscribed to the M150 thread, I think. I'm subscribed to one of them anyway. I don't remember any reviews that didn't dog it for beign too loud, and that was always answered with a firmware update corrected it, but I don't remember any post new firmware reviews.

Anyway, I'm sure I'd like it in general, I'm a LED fan. But I doubt I'd find it a hands down replacement for where the smaller 3C DLP's fit. Thing is, we aren't comparing apples and apples. A 4500/2500 lumen 3 chip (particularly in 3D mode) isn't the same as a 1100 lumen LED (I'm still VERY skeptical on that number), regardless of the chip size. Yes, the LED may look outstanding on a smaller screen, and I think they do. But the people looking at a High Lite Cine 330 3D aren't going to make it with a 1100? Lumen LED.

Anyway, DPI has a new LED also rated at 1100 lumens so that leads me to think it's got the same light engine as Sim2. They said they'd send me a sample piece and I'm looking forward to seeing it. It's a PD chassis AFAICT, looks like the dVision line. I've tried to get my Sim2 rep to send me a M150 to see but haven't gotten anywhere with him. The 150 at CEDIA wasn't particularly impressive as have been discussed elsewhere, but they didn't make much effort to show it well IMO.

Cheers,
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 06:44 AM
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The HL 330 has new wider bandwidth electronics and outputs at 120Hz, at a full 1920 X 1080. Over the years, TI has changed the meaning of their "labels" so DC3, DC4, etc. don't represent the same level of chip design. Typically manufacturers now purchase on a performance spec which is based on the yield of any particular batch. This is why you don't see the comparisons on TI's website like you used to.
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalgw View Post

The HL 330 has new wider bandwidth electronics and outputs at 120Hz, at a full 1920 X 1080. Over the years, TI has changed the meaning of their "labels" so DC3, DC4, etc. don't represent the same level of chip design. Typically manufacturers now purchase on a performance spec which is based on the yield of any particular batch. This is why you don't see the comparisons on TI's website like you used to.
Interesting. Will that bandwidth move to any of the other smaller 3 chip DLP's?

I don't think we could get any better input, can you weigh in on the differences between the smaller chipset and the larger one?

So within a 0.67 family, will the chips performance vary substantially based on which production run any particular mfgr approves?

Thanks GW.


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post #21 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 02:22 PM
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Next generation electronics will migrate through the entire product line.

The .65 is a 1080P chip, the .67 is a WUXGA (1920 X 1200) chip. TI makes a LOT more of this smaller chip than the .95. Most of the new development is done on smaller chips. TI has historically concentrated on .95 and .7 chips. The old 720 "Mustang" chip was .7. many of the same optical elements and lenses designed for this are now used with the .65/.67 chips. You can guess that DLPs with even smaller mirrors for hi res Pico projectors and mid sized 4K displays will be of highest priority. Because the .95 is a bigger modulator is can genrate more light. Because it requires a bigger lens, you can expect better performance. BUT, at a higher cost for both. The smaller chip cannot handle as much heat as the .95 either. Unless you are requiring a lot of lumens, the .65/.67 is a much better value with 90% of the performance of the .95.

Within the .65/.67 family the quality could vary greatly based upon acceptance spec, but typically does not.
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post #22 of 22 Old 01-14-2013, 02:39 PM
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Great info, thanks G. Not to get off on a tangent, but do you know which size DMD is in the new 1100 lumen LED?


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