Any Theta news at CES 2013 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Was wondering if any Theta news at CES 2013???

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post #2 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 10:48 AM
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I was told by an insider that the new Prometheus monoblocks sound better than anticipated, and they are 750 wpc @4ohm.smile.gif
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post #3 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 01:53 PM
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My wife totally dug the ADA/DBOX/KSCAPE/TRIAD demo as well as the ADA Reference/RBH demo.

Awesomely impressive Trinnov processing. I think she got to chat with Richard as well. Too bad I couldn't make it... but she has a better ear anyways.wink.gif

Thanks Curt for the direction. She had a great time listening and understanding what is happening with the processing and why it makes a big difference. She is very much on board with a Trinnov upgrade in my theater (though she said my theater stacked up pretty well against the reference systems).tongue.gif

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #4 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 02:38 PM
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Interesting ..........

Dan and I have letting folks ( and you) here for months.

Guess it took your wife to convince you we were not BS ing people.

At least your wife appreciates great audio. Mine has hearing aids.

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post #5 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 03:33 PM
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It'a also a little embarrassing that my wife is one of the few here in this forum to attend (though, truth be told, she was there on business). Glad she put a couple hours in for me!smile.gif

Where's that old interest that percolated in this forum??!! Where are the AVSers at CES?

No Theta Dirac, No Lexicon... anything going on?


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #6 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 03:55 PM
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Jeff, what does your wife have to say about the resurgence of op amps this year at CES???eek.giftongue.gif

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:

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post #7 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 04:11 PM
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Hey Steve,

I'm afraid she didn't make it to the Theta booth... Had they had a Dirac set up, I would've had her go check it out. She is a listener and a non-techno geek.

Before I install a Trinnov into my own room, I wanted her to hear what it does - Fortunately, she was impressed enough to think it a worthy investment! If she would've said it did very little... then, I would've wondered the value of it myself?! biggrin.gif

She met Richard S. from ADA... hopefully she talked him into 'special pricing' for this rabid ADA fan. She about fell over when I told her the price of the ADA Reference!!biggrin.gif

I do need a new sig though... (op amps). If there is indeed an op amps resurgence, Buldogger must be going bananas!!!biggrin.gif


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #8 of 41 Old 01-09-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Hey Steve,

I'm afraid she didn't make it to the Theta booth... Had they had a Dirac set up, I would've had her go check it out. She is a listener and a non-techno geek.

Before I install a Trinnov into my own room, I wanted her to hear what it does - Fortunately, she was impressed enough to think it a worthy investment! If she would've said it did very little... then, I would've wondered the value of it myself?! biggrin.gif

She met Richard S. from ADA... hopefully she talked him into 'special pricing' for this rabid ADA fan. She about fell over when I told her the price of the ADA Reference!!biggrin.gif

I do need a new sig though... (op amps). If there is indeed an op amps resurgence, Buldogger must be going bananas!!!biggrin.gif

FUNNY!!!!@@@@@@@@@@

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post #9 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 06:42 AM
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That is alright Bland.

I must confess: I have my sister attending the show for me. To busy to go and she has a house out there she vacations too.

Talk about a deer in the headlites............ She fell ion love with the new 84" LG television.

First CES show she has ever been to.

My brother-in-law is going to be pissed when he gets her wish list.

Jim
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post #10 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 07:00 AM
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(though, truth be told, she was there on business)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20957848

sorry, I couldn't resist!!

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post #11 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20957848

sorry, I couldn't resist!!


Yes. That's why my wife attended and I was told to stay home!biggrin.gif

Funny story on the 'controversial' booth babes. Too bad our politically correct society even questions the importance booth babes! Degrading women... only a hen-pecked husband would say that!!

Speaking of booth babes... I was certainly a fan!!biggrin.gif



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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #12 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 10:20 AM
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Can't anyone take some pictures of the Theta room?
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post #13 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Booth babes?

You need to go to the Miami Boat Show. Check out the Boat Babes, esp the ones at the 'go-fast' boat area. But don't foget you gold chains and extra strong dose of cologn.

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
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post #14 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 02:28 PM
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Can't anyone take some pictures of the Theta room?

No Dirac - No need!biggrin.gif


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #15 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 07:49 PM
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No Dirac - No need!biggrin.gif

What happened to the Dirac or Theta Booth Babes???

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:

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post #16 of 41 Old 01-10-2013, 07:57 PM
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Well, the Booth Babes at Theta Digital may be hiding, but they have caused a Supernova of an explosion!

http://www.hometheater.com/content/theta-supernova-explores-four-figure-price-point

Me, Craig/VGI, Norm/Tyree I'm sure, and a few other AVS poster/lurkers, have known about Theta Digital's new sub $10K SSP for some months now, but have been sworn to secrecy
lest otherwise our heads be chopped oFF!

Jeff, I bet you wife didn't tell you that she want to the "basement" party with the Chippendales (male strippers extraordinaire for those of you who know nothing).

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:

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post #17 of 41 Old 01-11-2013, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Any word on Dirac or new dacs?

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post #18 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 03:45 AM
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Any word on Dirac or new dacs?

Another option for Theta owners be to use a all digital pathway to a Trinnov processor,

if it coud work, would be Edorr's suggestion of getting a 12 ch Digi card, and outputting a 5.1 channel output to a Trinnov MC. But is there a converter to take the digital outputs from the Digi out card to the DB25 (digital) intput of the Trinnov? This way you could use HDMI for your sources (into the Theta) rather than go via a mndded Oppo directly to the Trinnov.

But can you add a second DIgi out card to the Theta to get even more channels e.g. 7.1? As far as I can tell, the 12 ch Digi out card is card says it's a 12 cha card but actually only outputs 6 channels. True?

Is this scenario possible? Any Theta owners in the know?


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post #19 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 07:20 AM
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But can you add a second DIgi out card to the Theta to get even more channels e.g. 7.1? As far as I can tell, the 12 ch Digi out card is card says it's a 12 cha card but actually only outputs 6 channels. True?

Is this scenario possible? Any Theta owners in the know?
No, think about it. If you input even with digital via coax it's two channel. Each XLR outputs two channels so the result is 12 channels. L and R on one channel, Center and sub 1 on another channel, etc. It's the same standard that everyone uses for digital channel assignment. You can not or would not need to add a second digital out card.The old card was 12 channel as well but with RCA connections. Analog outputs like on the Xtreme card are different in the the XLR outs only output a single channel. If you look at the new digital out card with 6 XLR stacked, one would assume that a replacement for the Xtreme card would follow the same pattern. That way you could have two 6 channel analog cards for 11.1 and also allow the 12 channel digital out card to occupy one slot. Genius! smile.gif

11.1 DTS-NEO X should be awesome. I agree with the philosophy that you only need one sub channel and EQ or correct all of the subs as one. That's what I have always done.

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post #20 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 07:27 AM
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The new digi out card is 12 channels so no issues there. The mc8 and mc12 comes with an aes/ebu to db25 converter cable, so no issue there either. This would work perfectly fine. The only two concerns with this approach are (1) the signal will be downsampled to 48/16, and (2) it is a rather expensive use of a cbIII hd as essentially an input switcher, decoder and HDMI to aes/ebu converter. If it was legally possible you could a dedicated box doing this without the down sampling a few grand. In it would look like meridians Hd621 box, without the encryption, although the hd621 requires the source to do the decoding I believe.
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post #21 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 07:31 AM
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Downsamples to 48/16 - not 48/24? Well, that's not ideal... I:m surprised. Is there great use for a 48/16 signal in audio anymore?


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post #22 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 07:51 AM
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Downsamples to 48/16 - not 48/24? Well, that's not ideal... I:m surprised. Is there great use for a 48/16 signal in audio anymore?

48/16 it is just the restiction imposed by the HDMI license. I have erroneously posted 48/24 in the past, but it is actually 48/16. I failed to mention the CBIII HD fronting an MC12 would of course also do post processing, so it is quite a bit more than just an HD621 without the encryption, but if I were you and had the means to drop $40K without blinking an eye, I would just get the ADA reference and be done with it.

The next best alternative would be to run a modded Oppo into an MC12. TO me the biggest advantage of this approach is that you can use an outboard audophile DAC with the Trinnov on the digital output, but this is only important if you try to integrate an audiophile 2 channel with your MCH, which is not a consideration for you.
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post #23 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 08:33 AM
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Downsamples to 48/16 - not 48/24? Well, that's not ideal... I:m surprised. Is there great use for a 48/16 signal in audio anymore?
If it were that simple. All things being equal it will be. The problem is that many of the external dacs smoke pre-pros for sound quality even when the the pre-pro gets a higher sampling rate. Most movies are 48/24 and I am certain that quite a bit of external dacs like PS Audio and the Bryston dac will still outperform the sound that the on-board dacs of the pre-pros are capable of producing even when they get a lower sampling rate. The Casablanca III sounded better running plain-ole Dolby Digital than using a first gen Panasonic Blu-ray player with 24/48 LPCM, played through the Six Shooter. I didn't even bother to continue listening to the analog outs of the player. That's a very large difference in data rate, very large. If you looked at that alone, you would conclude that there is no way the Casablanca could hope to equal the Panasonic. Now this was not the case for the Toshiba HD-DVD player. A horrible player as for ergonomics but it sounded significantly better with movies.
Bottom line, all thing equal, theory hold more but the quality of the electronics matters a lot. I would much rather listen to music for example through my Gen VIII with 16/44 than any number of pre-pros that I have auditioned running much higher sample rates.

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post #24 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 11:19 AM
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48/16 it is just the restiction imposed by the HDMI license. I have erroneously posted 48/24 in the past, but it is actually 48/16. I failed to mention the CBIII HD fronting an MC12 would of course also do post processing, so it is quite a bit more than just an HD621 without the encryption, but if I were you and had the means to drop $40K without blinking an eye, I would just get the ADA reference and be done with it.

The next best alternative would be to run a modded Oppo into an MC12. TO me the biggest advantage of this approach is that you can use an outboard audophile DAC with the Trinnov on the digital output, but this is only important if you try to integrate an audiophile 2 channel with your MCH, which is not a consideration for you.

But does the ADA Reference also downsample to 48/16 inside the processor? If not, how does it get around the restriction imposed by the HDMI license?
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If it were that simple. All things being equal it will be. The problem is that many of the external dacs smoke pre-pros for sound quality even when the the pre-pro gets a higher sampling rate. Most movies are 48/24 and I am certain that quite a bit of external dacs like PS Audio and the Bryston dac will still outperform the sound that the on-board dacs of the pre-pros are capable of producing even when they get a lower sampling rate. The Casablanca III sounded better running plain-ole Dolby Digital than using a first gen Panasonic Blu-ray player with 24/48 LPCM, played through the Six Shooter. I didn't even bother to continue listening to the analog outs of the player. That's a very large difference in data rate, very large. If you looked at that alone, you would conclude that there is no way the Casablanca could hope to equal the Panasonic. Now this was not the case for the Toshiba HD-DVD player. A horrible player as for ergonomics but it sounded significantly better with movies.
Bottom line, all thing equal, theory hold more but the quality of the electronics matters a lot. I would much rather listen to music for example through my Gen VIII with 16/44 than any number of pre-pros that I have auditioned running much higher sample rates.

If the comparison is between the ADA Reference vs. Theta & Digi Out & Trinnov MC, I think this is a moot point in that both will use the Trinnov DAC's (which I think are the same). However, with the Theta & Digi Out & Trinnov MC, you also have the option to go digital out from Trinnov MC and then use whatever external DAC you like. If the difference is as much as you say (i.e., using external dacs over the Trinnov dacs), then that combination might give you the most in flexibility. I agree the ADA Reference is a tremendously capable single box solution, but the Theta & Dig Out & Trinnov MC & external DAC's perhaps might eek out some additional performance as well as give you the option for DTS Neo X.
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post #25 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 11:37 AM
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But does the ADA Reference also downsample to 48/16 inside the processor? If not, how does it get around the restriction imposed by the HDMI license?

The ADA reference is a single box, basically housing a ADA Mach IV and a Trinnov MC, connected digitally. This architecture is not subject to the HDMI restriction, because the digital full resolution signal is never made available on an external output.
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If the comparison is between the ADA Reference vs. Theta & Digi Out & Trinnov MC, I think this is a moot point in that both will use the Trinnov DAC's (which I think are the same). However, with the Theta & Digi Out & Trinnov MC, you also have the option to go digital out from Trinnov MC and then use whatever external DAC you like. If the difference is as much as you say (i.e., using external dacs over the Trinnov dacs), then that combination might give you the most in flexibility. I agree the ADA Reference is a tremendously capable single box solution, but the Theta & Dig Out & Trinnov MC & external DAC's perhaps might eek out some additional performance as well as give you the option for DTS Neo X.

If you don't mind having 6 boxes instead of one, it is conceivable you can get better sound than an ADA Reference by throwing hardware at the problem. You would use a CBIII HD, connect it digitally to a Trinnov MC8/MC12 and hook up 4 external high grade DACs to the digital outs. It is very likely the audiophile 2 channel DACs at 48/16 would outperform the internal DACs in the Trinnov at 48/24. Of course, this adds a lot of complexity, but you could theoretically put this together for the 40K pricetag of a reference.

In my view, for a HT / movies application this would be a waste of time. For a music application (MCH SACD) the downsampling to 48/16 would really hurt, and you'd be better off running a modded Oppo into the Trinnov and run it at 88/24 (soon 176/24 once the Trinnov supports it). For Jeff, this is all academic and he should just whip out the checkbook and order a n ADA reference.
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post #26 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 04:44 PM
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In my view, for a HT / movies application this would be a waste of time. For a music application (MCH SACD) the downsampling to 48/16 would really hurt, and you'd be better off running a modded Oppo into the Trinnov and run it at 88/24 (soon 176/24 once the Trinnov supports it). For Jeff, this is all academic and he should just whip out the checkbook and order a n ADA reference.

I'm too value conscious... I gladly spent the money on my Turbo S as, for the money, it was unbeatable in terms performance compared to the $300K-$400K and $300K+ Ferraris... and at a fraction of the cost. Maintenance is negligible with Porsches compared to those other super cars. The ADA is the highest priced SSP I know of, and despite its excellence, I have to know there is a shred of value in the purchase. That's why the MC or TEQ are appealing. I told Dan, find a reference for $25K and I'm in. That's where I think it should be priced.


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post #27 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 04:52 PM
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Speaking of Dan...




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post #28 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 05:13 PM
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WAY BACK MACHINE ALERT!!!

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Head of Sales US
C'SEED Entertainment Systems GMBH

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post #29 of 41 Old 01-12-2013, 05:17 PM
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Yeah, a Reference at 25k is not going to happen- not until you find one used in a few years. That's why Jeff's plan to go with an MC and modded OPPO is the most logical for him right now. He's a DIY'er, so he'll inevitably be using Curt's hourly services for the calibrations- then once he has the hang of it, he can tweak his own system to his heart's content.

I say more power to you.

Dan

Dan Francis
Head of Sales US
C'SEED Entertainment Systems GMBH

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post #30 of 41 Old 01-13-2013, 12:22 PM
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Somebody asked about a photo from the Theta room?

Unfortunately I only have one but here you go!


follow my A/V tweets @davidsusilo

ISF, THX, CEDIA, Control4 & HAA certified
Reviewer for TED, QAV, AUVI & DownUnder Audio Magazine


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