Best Surround Processor Currently Available? - Page 21 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Best Multi-Channel processor currently on the market?
Classe SSP800 26 10.08%
Bryton SP3 24 9.30%
ADA Mach IV 4 1.55%
ADA Mach IV+Trinnov 28 10.85%
Datasat RS20i 50 19.38%
Theta CB3 HDMI + Extreme Dacs 34 13.18%
Krell Evolution 707 14 5.43%
Mcintosh MX151 26 10.08%
JBL Synthesis with SDEC 4500 18 6.98%
Other (comment on your answer) 36 13.95%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 258. You may not vote on this poll

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post #601 of 851 Old 09-27-2013, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Storm Audio... The Product Description says, " It's 16 individually assignable (digital or analog) channels are fully configurable". Has Auro on board.. Cool. 13K.. and French (like Trinnov).

So it can output 16 channels digitally (e.g. to a Trinnov, etc)"?

If you look on the back of the product, it has the DB-25 connector and it states it is for channels 1 - 16 in digital format, so it appears to be identical to the Datasat in that regard (i.e., able to connect digitally to the Trinnov MC Processor for the ultimate AV processing combo). I'm guessing there is still the 16/48 limitation for the output on HDMI sources.
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post #602 of 851 Old 09-27-2013, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sipester View Post

If you look on the back of the product, it has the DB-25 connector and it states it is for channels 1 - 16 in digital format, so it appears to be identical to the Datasat in that regard (i.e., able to connect digitally to the Trinnov MC Processor for the ultimate AV processing combo). I'm guessing there is still the 16/48 limitation for the output on HDMI sources.

I thought the limitation was 24/96... Isn't that what the Datasat can do?

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post #603 of 851 Old 09-27-2013, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sipester View Post

If you look on the back of the product, it has the DB-25 connector and it states it is for channels 1 - 16 in digital format, so it appears to be identical to the Datasat in that regard (i.e., able to connect digitally to the Trinnov MC Processor for the ultimate AV processing combo). I'm guessing there is still the 16/48 limitation for the output on HDMI sources.

If it sells and ships from Amazon 2 day Prime....

Seriously, this is the concept of a modern processor I think most of us would want...be curious to hear it somewhere.

Is Storm Audio relatively new? European-based? They list Procella Audio as their US distributor, but there's no info on Storm on Procella's web site...
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post #604 of 851 Old 09-27-2013, 06:48 AM
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I thought the limitation was 24/96... Isn't that what the Datasat can do?

Datasat can actually pass 192/24 if no room eq is engaged , else it down rez's to 96/24.

But all pre pros with digi out if being fed an HDMI signal which is protected by HDCP has to be down sampled to 48/16. This is a legal stipulation from HDMI / hdcp.
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post #605 of 851 Old 09-27-2013, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Datasat can actually pass 192/24 if no room eq is engaged , else it down rez's to 96/24.

But all pre pros with digi out if being fed an HDMI signal which is protected by HDCP has to be down sampled to 48/16. This is a legal stipulation from HDMI / hdcp.

Im aware but can the Storm do 96/24 via it's DB-25?

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post #606 of 851 Old 09-28-2013, 05:23 AM
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Krell Foundation processor...$6500

Wasn't their last processor at $25,000 (and a flop)?

Krell on the cheap now!


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #607 of 851 Old 09-28-2013, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Wasn't their last processor at $25,000 (and a flop)?

Krell on the cheap now!

$30k. Didn't do very well. Very nice build quality but when I demoed it a couple of years ago, I wasn't blown away.

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post #608 of 851 Old 09-28-2013, 05:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Krell Foundation processor...$6500

Wasn't their last processor at $25,000 (and a flop)?

Krell on the cheap now!


Yeah, Krell surrenders to "China Market". Anyway their Processors, even the 707, were never the ideal for Home Theater. With that cash buy ADA, that's the "Piece of Art". If you cannot afford it buy the closest, Datasat RS20i...
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post #609 of 851 Old 09-28-2013, 06:11 AM
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I think many here have not heard what they are voting on. If they had, I don't think this poll would have these results...

"Read Less, More TV." - Dr. Gregory House

"That which can not be questioned, can not be trusted." - Me

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post #610 of 851 Old 09-28-2013, 02:44 PM
 
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I think many here have not heard what they are voting on. If they had, I don't think this poll would have these results...

Manu don't, but a few do. There is obvious the Datatsat is the Winner, but ADA Mach IV should be on first place. Some people just click on others for whatever reason, or no reason....
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post #611 of 851 Old 09-28-2013, 02:48 PM
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Manu don't, but a few do. There is obvious the Datatsat is the Winner, but ADA Mach IV should be on first place. Some people just click on others for whatever reason, or no reason....

So if you clicked on Datasat or ADA, you knew what you were talking about, but if you clicked on something else you either had a motive or were clueless?
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post #612 of 851 Old 09-28-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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So if you clicked on Datasat or ADA, you knew what you were talking about, but if you clicked on something else you either had a motive or were clueless?

Yep.. that's how it is... rolleyes.gif

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post #613 of 851 Old 09-29-2013, 12:37 AM
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Sorry, heard the Datasat at CEDIA and spent some time with the engineers. Was not impressed. Looks like great specs, but those guys just don't have ears. I would NEVER have put that demo in front of the public. It was horrible. Now I'm sure it is a good piece, however on a quick listen the new Theta CB IV sounded MUCH better to me.

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post #614 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 11:38 AM
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No, but I had them re-sole my shoes once - what a zip it put into my step!

Small suggestion - qualitative opinions are generally best focused on things you actually have experience with, which is sort of opposite of what you're doing on this thread. And when it comes to TUC, some cursory searching would show they are generally considered more low grade snake oil than high grade motor oil, mainly because they have no measurable quantification of what their changes do.

They even go so far to say this on their site:
(misspelling is theirs not mine)

Now, really? I know that specs aren't everything, but there are many specs that directly correlate to good or poor audio or video quality. That type of blanket statement by TUC says a lot.

I was very skeptical several years ago, when I had my first piece of equipment (Pioneer BDP-05FD blu ray player) upgraded. Since then, I have continued to work with David on several pieces of equipment. I've been very happy with everything that he has done for me. Regarding reviews, Clement Perry (Reimyo CD player) from Stereo Times, Ed Momkus (Esoteric P-70/D-70) at dagogo-dot-com, Chip Stern (Oppo 95) at positive-feedback-dot-com, and Francisco Duran (Marantz PM-15S1G and SA-15S2) at positive-feedback-dot-com.

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post #615 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 01:36 PM
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Hmmm. Theta CB IV is out in 60 days. New processor, fully 192kHz capable, Dirac Live up to 96kHz etc. Still to be heard by many but I'm sure it will be climbing the ranks of this poll when it is.

Egglestonworks Andra III, Andra III Centre, Rosa (as surround). Rel Stentor II. Theta CB IV. Krell FPB 200 and two KAV 150a amps. Custom-built audio server. Oppo 103EU. Apple TV. Pioneer PDP-LX608D. Synergistic Research "Element Copper" front speaker cable. Cardas Clear Light bal interconnects.
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post #616 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 01:44 PM
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Hmmm. Theta CB IV is out in 60 days. New processor, fully 192kHz capable, Dirac Live up to 96kHz etc. Still to be heard by many but I'm sure it will be climbing the ranks of this poll when it is.

60 days?? Wanna bet?!biggrin.gif

I think if It could do more than 7.1 channels output, it would get up to the Datasat level and really in an excellent league. The Datasat seems far more readily upgradeable than anything on the market. They are adding Auro and I think they have DTS Neo X. Does the Theta plan on releasing such?

What's a loaded CBIV going for??

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post #617 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

60 days?? Wanna bet?!biggrin.gif

I think if It could do more than 7.1 channels output, it would get up to the Datasat level and really in an excellent league. The Datasat seems far more readily upgradeable than anything on the market. They are adding Auro and I think they have DTS Neo X. Does the Theta plan on releasing such?

What's a loaded CBIV going for??

Everyone put The Bland on your Theta "Ignore" list. He has never added anything meaningful to Theta gear discussions but likes to throw a few thorns here and there!@@@

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post #618 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 02:43 PM
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Sorry, heard the Datasat at CEDIA and spent some time with the engineers. Was not impressed. Looks like great specs, but those guys just don't have ears. I would NEVER have put that demo in front of the public. It was horrible. Now I'm sure it is a good piece, however on a quick listen the new Theta CB IV sounded MUCH better to me.

JMO

I didn't see that you were in Denver for the show Peter. Demo's always have many variables, and I noted many rooms which had awful sound in one row, or on the side, while had "pretty good" sound in other locations, or sounded off the first day or two. Of course anyone expecting a state of the art theater presentation in trade show conditions is kidding themselves. The sound rooms on the lower level such as Wisdom's setup was the closest, but was still a temporary setup in a very live room. With Dirac it's easy to voice a system however one prefers. Where did you sit for the demo and on which day?

One bit I had pointed out was that by not illuminating the LCR behind the screen, walking in the room the visible wide speakers created a feeling where it would be more natural to sit at the rear of the room vs the middle or front where the sound was in fact much better. Similarly the Display Development / Magico demo was hyper sensitive to seating position, while they bragged about getting great sound in the room without any room treatments. rolleyes.gif

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post #619 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View PostKrell Foundation processor...$6500 Wasn't their last processor at $25,000 (and a flop)?  Krell on the cheap now!

Is it any good?  I still believe the best processor is no processor!

 

Oppo BDP-105 straight to the amps :)

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post #620 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Everyone put The Bland on your Theta "Ignore" list. He has never added anything meaningful to Theta gear discussions but likes to throw a few thorns here and there!@@@

Ok. So no Auro, no DTS Neo X, no output over 7.1 channels, and no chance for a 60 day release. I think a loaded DATASAT is cheaper. Who'd buy new (or admit to it)??

Just the facts here!

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post #621 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 04:50 PM
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Ok. So no Auro, no DTS Neo X, no output over 7.1 channels, and no chance for a 60 day release. I think a loaded DATASAT is cheaper. Who'd buy new (or admit to it)??

Just the facts here!

IGNORE!!@@@

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post #622 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 04:52 PM
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IGNORE!!@@@

You can't ignore Theta's glaring omissions on a new design processor! They had the opportunity to take the lead in SSPs, yet it looks like they are leading from behind (again).

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post #623 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterS View Post

Sorry, heard the Datasat at CEDIA and spent some time with the engineers. Was not impressed. Looks like great specs, but those guys just don't have ears. I would NEVER have put that demo in front of the public. It was horrible. Now I'm sure it is a good piece, however on a quick listen the new Theta CB IV sounded MUCH better to me.

JMO
PeterS, you are very welcome to come over and listen to my setup.

I hope Roger does not mind, but this is what he had to say about it when he came over.

"Dave let me first play a CD I burned with several familiar music selections, and was happy to see we agree that louder is not always better. Playing at comfortable loudness, I was nonetheless immediately struck by the quality of the bass. Every note was heard as a separate event. No blurr or overhang, every note spoke with defined pitch, attack and integrated beautifully with the rest of the spectrum. The delicacy was a pleasant surprise, but whenever it called for either subterranean depth (the HVAC motors that were picked up in the Dido recording), or just a full measure of dynamics in Lyle Lovett, it was all there in full measure as easy as you please. No sweat, no strain.

Time for some movies. The famous WOTW "crawl out of the street" scene shook me in the seat, which was remarkable given the seats sit on a carpeted concrete floor that is not vibrating. This was when playing at -15 dB.

The "going down" crash scene in "Flight of the Phoenix" put me right inside that rickety aircraft. It was a jawdropping visceral experience. Just astoundingly good.

Now all this blubbering about the bass may lead you to think the rest of the sound was pretty normal. But no. The L/C/Rs are Quested HQ210, and whatever may have been bothering Dave about the high frequencies of other speakers he's had was not in evidence with these. Detail galore right through the woven screen, smooth clean sound one can enjoy for hours without fatigue. The surrounds were just as impressive. I forget the details, but they seemed to be 5' tall line arrays with ribbon tweeters. There may be a second pair in the future, I believe.

Watching Star Trek, which also sounded great, I felt the video image was tending to crush into the black, so we dug out the Spears and Munsil disc and did some quick fiddling with the Oppo controls just to see what would happen -- so as to not mess the PJ's settings. Raising the brightness and reducing the contrast helped a lot, but I suspect there's a better way to refine the calibration of the laser-powered image than that. More importantly, the curved screen fills what I estimate is a full 60-deg viewing angle when showing 2.40 content (it's a CIH setup), which creates its own sense of involvement that complements the likewise involving sound.

How much of this astonishing total system performance can be attributed to any one thing? I think it is the superb blend of all the factors that makes this theater and the experiences it provides so special. The processor, amps, main speakers, subs, room design and construction, acoustic treatments, tuning/target curve, every element is there in full measure. As Salieri said: "Displace one note and there would be diminishment...""


As Roger said, non of this can be attributed to one particular item, but the huge difference when playing direct mode to when the target curve was applied was very noticeable, everything just seems to come together and I attribute a lot of that to the the room acoustics and finally to refine everything the processing power of the RS20i .

BTW, I am not trying to sell anyone anything, but I find it very hard to believe that the RS20i sounded that bad, there must be a reason there, b/c I have tried many, many processors and the RS20i stood clear and above the rest. However, I have not heard all the processors on that list.

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post #624 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Dave - nice write up from Roger. I'm sure the Datasat sounds great. We just need someone that knows what they're doing in the area to demo it. smile.gif

Do you have a screenshot of your target curve? Curious what you decided to settle on.

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post #625 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 06:37 PM
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This is what I ended up going with, I roll the subs off at 68hz. I want a 8 to 10dB rise from 70 to 5hz.

REW measured response at the LP for the subs.


The Dirac filter for the subs.


The diract filters for the Center speaker, I roll the LCR's off at 30hz, this smoths out the dip in the first graph. Unfortunately I don't have a full FR graph on hand.
And Left and right speakers dig a little deeper than the center BTW and they don't have that dip @35hz.

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post #626 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 07:30 PM
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Dave - those reponses without Dirac look great - very impresssive!
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post #627 of 851 Old 10-01-2013, 08:13 PM
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Dave - those reponses without Dirac look great - very impresssive!
That first response is after Dirac. Remember my room is solid concrete on all 4 walls ceiling and floor. Room modes are amplified in my situation, so I really think Dirac and the room treatments has done wonders.

I don't have any pre Dirac graphs on hand.

But, this is the slight changes you can make by adjusting the target curve ,
Both below are after Dirac,


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post #628 of 851 Old 10-02-2013, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Dave - looks like you slightly modeled it after the JBL SDEC curve? I use a similar curve but it's 6db hump 20hz - 10hz.

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post #629 of 851 Old 10-02-2013, 10:06 AM
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I recommend a HTPC with Dirac or or Audiolense and the exa sound e18 or exa sound e28 usb multi-channel Dacs. Both use the Sabre32 1908 chip and they are DSD, DSX compatible. You'd have plenty of money for a huge NAS server as well!!! wink.gif
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post #630 of 851 Old 10-02-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

60 days?? Wanna bet?!biggrin.gif

I'll take your money. You're pretty confident. What sort of odds are you offering?

(12 channels)

Egglestonworks Andra III, Andra III Centre, Rosa (as surround). Rel Stentor II. Theta CB IV. Krell FPB 200 and two KAV 150a amps. Custom-built audio server. Oppo 103EU. Apple TV. Pioneer PDP-LX608D. Synergistic Research "Element Copper" front speaker cable. Cardas Clear Light bal interconnects.
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