Classé CT-SSP Surround Processor, Bryston 4B SST2 & 9B SST2 (3 Chn) C-Series Amp's, with B&W Diamond - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 03-20-2013, 03:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I need to ask for the forum's help please. I'm a newbie with all of this....HDTV, Home Theater, Stereo, and even to posting a question on a forum...so please bare with me...and I hope this thread is in the right area. confused.gif

I have B&W 802D's, HTM2D, & CCM-682 ceiling speakers (no place to put 805D's so had to go with the ceiling speakers), along with Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cables. I need to buy a processor and amp(s) along with the XLR cables. I estimate that I will do 90% home theater and 10% stereo...however that may change once all this is put together, setup and equalized. I would like it to sound great listening to stereo too so I may end up do much more then 10% stereo. Do ya'll think that a Classé CT-SSP Surround Processor with a Bryston 4B SST2 C-Series for the 802D's and a Bryston 9B SST2 C-Series configured as a 3 channel for the HTM2 & CCM-682's would be a good match? Home Theater has great reviews on the Classé and Bryston equipment but am I asking for trouble mixing different brand Processors and Amp's or perhaps am I likely to lose on the quality of sound mixing different brands? Has anyone heard any of this equipment with the 802D's? I'm unable to find anyone who has the speakers, processor and amp's to demo together. I can't even find anyone with two of the three items to demo together. The Bryston 4B has 300W per channel into 8 ohms all channels driven and the Bryston 9B 130W per channel into 8 ohms all channels driven. If ya'll think this setup would work well together, do you think I should get the Bryston 9B SST2 C-Series configured as a 4 channel and Bi-Amp the HTM2 or do you think 130W will do fine?

Thank you in advance for your help and patience with the newbie. smile.gif
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post #2 of 33 Old 03-20-2013, 04:27 AM
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Hello;

You will find no issues mixing components from manufacturers, many many people do just that. I'm one. I actually have a Lexicon MC-12B SSP, two Bryston 4B-SST's (currently bi-amping), a Bryston 6B-SST with B&W 802 Diamonds, HTM2 Diamond and Paradigm Studio 100v2's and the sound is wonderful. Before the 2nd Bryston 4B-SST and 6B-SST were added I was using an Anthem MCA-50 and it also sounded very good. That was when I had an all Paradigm speaker setup and was running a 7.1 setup.

If you like the Bryston amps why not get a 6B-SST to keep the power the same across all speakers, just curious? The 4B-SST will drive the 802's very well, sure I suppose a 7B might be better but I have no complaints at all with my 4B. I don't think there is any need to get a 4 channel 9B just to bi-amp the HTM2, due to the B&W's design bi-amping just doesn't bring much if any benefit in my opinion and I'm doing it because I had a spare 4B as I'm now configured for 5.1. If you are looking for more power for your center then that's where a 6B makes more sense. For the B&W's I would recommend more power over bi-amping.

As for Classe I have never personally heard them but Classe is owned by B&W so it naturally makes sense B&W would push them as a good match and as a result you may be able to get a better deal on them from your B&W dealer. Many people here on the forums have Classe amp/B&W speaker combos and love them. There is probably an equal number of McIntosh/B&W owners as well.

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post #3 of 33 Old 03-20-2013, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello Rod#S,

Thank you for your reply.

I'm sorry, I forgot, but had intended to include the reason I'm looking at the 9B with a 4B vs a 6B with a 4B or even the Classé 5300 by itself for that matter. I have limited space for the equipment, especially depth wise, and I'm trying hard to keep the weight down to 50 lbs....65 lbs absolute max if possible per piece. The Classé 5300 weighs in at 113 lbs and the 6B I believe is 96 lbs or thereabouts. Too heavy for this aging cowboy to wrestle with. So that's what lead me to consider this arrangement...well that and the great reviews in Home Theater. I've not had the privilege of hearing neither the Classé nor the Bryston equipment yet.

It's nice to hear that you're happy with the pairing of your B&W Diamonds with the Bryston amps. I was a bit concerned after reading somewhere a couple....less then great comments about the sound using Bryston with 802D's. Perhaps these comments were published a few years ago and do not represent how the latest equipment sounds.

I've found only one dealer who has a 4B amp out for demo, but he does not have the processor or speakers. Being a newbie at all of this I don't know if it would do me any good to demo the amp with whatever processor and speakers the dealer has setup. It appears that I just may have to make this purchase without being able to demo the sound first...something I had hoped to avoid.

Thank you for your help.
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post #4 of 33 Old 03-20-2013, 02:52 PM
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You're welcome.

Thanks for commenting why you are looking for that particular pairing. Yeah the 6B is quite heavy as is the Classe. I think what turns a lot of people off on Bryston is Bryston's transparency or neutrality. It has been my experience reading comments about the Bryston/B&W combos over the years that a good percentage of people don't necessarily like neutral amps but prefer them to impart a particular sound most often what is described as a warm sound. So a Bryston coupled with the current gen diamonds is often described as bright or forward which can give some people listener fatigue. I personally don't find that at all and I'm a gen behind the SST sqaured amps. What I hear from my Bryston and Diamond combo is incredible accuracy and can listen for hours. It just shows that different people respond differently to equipment as we don't all hear things the same way and have different preferences.

I'm not trying to push one brand over another because the CT-SSP is essentially a SSP-800 which has been getting incredible reviews but have you considered the Bryston SP3 SSP? I'm thinking you might be able to get a better deal from your dealer if you buy a complete package from one manufacturer. Oh, out of curiosity why the CT-SSP and not the SSP-800, I don't see many people go the CT route, most seem to prefer the SSP maybe it's just a cosmetics thing.

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post #5 of 33 Old 03-20-2013, 11:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Note: I hope this does not post twice. I clicked on "submit" and walked away. When I returned nothing posted. So this is attempt #2.


Thank you again for your reply.

I couldn't remember the words from the articles I had previously read describing the sound from a Bryston/Diamond combo, but what you described, the bright or forward sound, is exactly what I had read before. The fact that some folks experience listener fatigue from this type of sound is something that has me a bit concerned. Being a newbie at this, I've been under the impression that one should try and have a neutral or uncolored sound system…one which reproduces sound as accurately as possible thus enabling you to hear the cut just the way it was intended to be heard. However, since this is all new to me, I don't know if I might be one of those folks who prefer the so called warm sound. I really don't think I am based on how much I like the wonderful, clear and bright sound of my 802's, but that’s definitely a concern I have and I do want to be able to listen for hours without any listener fatigue. Once I hook up the system I described, if I did find that I preferred a warm, or colored sound, is there an equalizer that could be added to the system to color the sound to one's liking? BTW, I failed to mention I also have the B&W DB-1 Sub. Do you think the DB-1 might tone down the bright or forward sound of the Bryston/Diamond combo just a bit?

Regarding the CT-SSP verses the SSP-800, it is strictly a cosmetic’s thing. I would prefer a totally black case but the CT-SSP is the closest that Classé has.
Yes, I did read the review about the Bryston SP3 SSP in Home Theater. Thank you for mentioning it. I seriously considered the SP3 and do like the straight-wire-with-gain mentality, and I would have preferred to stick with the same manufacturer as the amps. However, the SP3 is just a little too bare bones for me. With some effort, I think I could get myself to accept, and live with, the lack of any legacy connections on the SP3, but the deal breaker for me is that the SP3 has no room equalization software. I totally see Bryston’s point, noted in Home Theater’s review, about room EQ is basically just attempting to undo what the speaker designer undoubtedly spent many a sleepless night perfecting and that it is no substitute for proper speaker positioning and some modest room treatment. But unfortunately I do need the room EQ feature.

I do have one, “big” concern about the Classé CT-SSP. The Home Theater review was dated Sep 21,2010, but it noted a couple functionality issues that have me very concerned. The review noted that when you fast forward, rewind, or come off pause, you’ll experience a little popping as the audio resyncs. They said it’s not tweeter threatening, just annoying. Classé may have this corrected by now, but maybe not. Back when the review was written HDMI was at version 1.3b. Now it’s 1.4a and I’ve been told that 1.4a has its own set of issues. Perhaps I’ll need to start a thread to ask the forum about this concern.
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post #6 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

You're welcome.

Thanks for commenting why you are looking for that particular pairing. Yeah the 6B is quite heavy as is the Classe. I think what turns a lot of people off on Bryston is Bryston's transparency or neutrality. It has been my experience reading comments about the Bryston/B&W combos over the years that a good percentage of people don't necessarily like neutral amps but prefer them to impart a particular sound most often what is described as a warm sound. So a Bryston coupled with the current gen diamonds is often described as bright or forward which can give some people listener fatigue. I personally don't find that at all and I'm a gen behind the SST sqaured amps. What I hear from my Bryston and Diamond combo is incredible accuracy and can listen for hours. It just shows that different people respond differently to equipment as we don't all hear things the same way and have different preferences.

I'm not trying to push one brand over another because the CT-SSP is essentially a SSP-800 which has been getting incredible reviews but have you considered the Bryston SP3 SSP? I'm thinking you might be able to get a better deal from your dealer if you buy a complete package from one manufacturer. Oh, out of curiosity why the CT-SSP and not the SSP-800, I don't see many people go the CT route, most seem to prefer the SSP maybe it's just a cosmetics thing.

If you want to get out of the wrestling business completely, you could consider powering your B&Ws with a combination of Bel Canto class D monoblock amps. I believe Kal R. uses this combo, and presumably he has heard quite a few amps in his system in the course of his reviewing duties. The beauty of this approach is you can optimize the lineup of amps for the speakers you are dirving with them. So for example you ican drive your mains with the ref 1000 MKII, the center with a Ref 500 and the surrounds with a 300S. I used Ref 500 on my center and 300S on my (in wall) surrounds myself for a while and this worked quite well. Just a thought....
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post #7 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 10:53 AM
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If you want to get out of the wrestling business completely, you could consider powering your B&Ws with a combination of Bel Canto class D monoblock amps. I believe Kal R. uses this combo, and presumably he has heard quite a few amps in his system in the course of his reviewing duties. The beauty of this approach is you can optimize the lineup of amps for the speakers you are dirving with them. So for example you ican drive your mains with the ref 1000 MKII, the center with a Ref 500 and the surrounds with a 300S. I used Ref 500 on my center and 300S on my (in wall) surrounds myself for a while and this worked quite well. Just a thought....

Thanks, amp weight doesn't matter to me personally as I am willing to accomodate whatever the weight and size of any amp I purchasse is but it is a concern for the original poster. Class D amps certainly get the size and weight down.

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post #8 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Cayman S View Post

Note: I hope this does not post twice. I clicked on "submit" and walked away. When I returned nothing posted. So this is attempt #2.


Thank you again for your reply.

I couldn't remember the words from the articles I had previously read describing the sound from a Bryston/Diamond combo, but what you described, the bright or forward sound, is exactly what I had read before. The fact that some folks experience listener fatigue from this type of sound is something that has me a bit concerned. Being a newbie at this, I've been under the impression that one should try and have a neutral or uncolored sound system…one which reproduces sound as accurately as possible thus enabling you to hear the cut just the way it was intended to be heard. However, since this is all new to me, I don't know if I might be one of those folks who prefer the so called warm sound. I really don't think I am based on how much I like the wonderful, clear and bright sound of my 802's, but that’s definitely a concern I have and I do want to be able to listen for hours without any listener fatigue. Once I hook up the system I described, if I did find that I preferred a warm, or colored sound, is there an equalizer that could be added to the system to color the sound to one's liking? BTW, I failed to mention I also have the B&W DB-1 Sub. Do you think the DB-1 might tone down the bright or forward sound of the Bryston/Diamond combo just a bit?

Regarding the CT-SSP verses the SSP-800, it is strictly a cosmetic’s thing. I would prefer a totally black case but the CT-SSP is the closest that Classé has.
Yes, I did read the review about the Bryston SP3 SSP in Home Theater. Thank you for mentioning it. I seriously considered the SP3 and do like the straight-wire-with-gain mentality, and I would have preferred to stick with the same manufacturer as the amps. However, the SP3 is just a little too bare bones for me. With some effort, I think I could get myself to accept, and live with, the lack of any legacy connections on the SP3, but the deal breaker for me is that the SP3 has no room equalization software. I totally see Bryston’s point, noted in Home Theater’s review, about room EQ is basically just attempting to undo what the speaker designer undoubtedly spent many a sleepless night perfecting and that it is no substitute for proper speaker positioning and some modest room treatment. But unfortunately I do need the room EQ feature.

I do have one, “big” concern about the Classé CT-SSP. The Home Theater review was dated Sep 21,2010, but it noted a couple functionality issues that have me very concerned. The review noted that when you fast forward, rewind, or come off pause, you’ll experience a little popping as the audio resyncs. They said it’s not tweeter threatening, just annoying. Classé may have this corrected by now, but maybe not. Back when the review was written HDMI was at version 1.3b. Now it’s 1.4a and I’ve been told that 1.4a has its own set of issues. Perhaps I’ll need to start a thread to ask the forum about this concern.

Personally I wouldn't be getting myself into a position where you think you might need such a thing as an equalizer if you did end up finding things to bright. Seeing as you will be paying a lot of money for the amps it just doesn't make sense to then smear the sound after the fact. You would be better off getting other amps if that were the case. The sub wouldn't have any impact here as brightness is typically a result of what you are hearing from the high-mid and treble which the subwoofer will never touch anyways.

I had my eyes on the SP3 as well but like you I found it lacking for my needs i.e. no room eq and no focusing on current surround matrix processing such as dts Neo:X or Dolby PLIIz.

Seeing as you say you have the speakers now, is there any way to arrange with your dealer(s) to take home a Bryston amp for a trial run? You don't really need to have 5 channels, I'm thinking just the 4B will do so you can connect it to the 802's and spend a few days listening for multiple hours to see if you find it to bright, forward or notice any fatigue over an extended listening session.

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post #9 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 11:16 AM
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I run 802d and htm1d for fronts and SCMS and 805d for sides and rears. I also had them on Bel Canto ref 1000s and was not that taken by them. The top end is beautiful but i found they lacked guts as you get lower down the frequencies. When I changed over to the abamps it was like getting new speakers. The shear amount of bass coming from the 802ds was just shocking. So tight and well, full of trouser flapage.

I had had the Ada crm4 playing next to the ssp800 and the crm4 was clearly better for movies and about on par with Ssp800 for music. I also had the trinnov mc connected for a while and it was pretty dam good. Now I use the Datasat RS20i and the sound is just immense. So emmersive and the synergy between pro / amps and speakers constantly delivers a mind blowing peformance.
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post #10 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

I run 802d and htm1d for fronts and SCMS and 805d for sides and rears. I also had them on Bel Canto ref 1000s and was not that taken by them. The top end is beautiful but i found they lacked guts as you get lower down the frequencies. 

My feelings about that combination are pretty much opposite.  I thought the Ref 1000markII had plenty of grunt for the bottom end but made the treble slightly gray and dry.


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"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #11 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 01:57 PM
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I run 802d and htm1d for fronts and SCMS and 805d for sides and rears. I also had them on Bel Canto ref 1000s and was not that taken by them. The top end is beautiful but i found they lacked guts as you get lower down the frequencies. When I changed over to the abamps it was like getting new speakers. The shear amount of bass coming from the 802ds was just shocking. So tight and well, full of trouser flapage.

I had had the Ada crm4 playing next to the ssp800 and the crm4 was clearly better for movies and about on par with Ssp800 for music. I also had the trinnov mc connected for a while and it was pretty dam good. Now I use the Datasat RS20i and the sound is just immense. So emmersive and the synergy between pro / amps and speakers constantly delivers a mind blowing peformance.

That's a great system you have there djnickuk, what are you running for subs?

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post #12 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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edorr, thanks for the suggestion on the Class D amps. Being the newbie that I am, I was under the impression that the Class D amps are much better these days, but still can't match a Class A/B amp. But perhaps I need to take a look at some of the Class D's you mentioned like the Bel Canto class D. Sure would solve the weight issue.

- - - - - - - - - - -

Rod#S, thank you. That’s a good point about smearing the sound. I started to rethink the equalizer thought once I sent off my last reply. I appreciate your thoughts on that. I guess that wouldn't be the best idea.

Your idea about trying to arrange to take a Bryston 4B home for a trial run is great! Thank you. I’ll have to check that out. That’d be great if the dealer will let me do that.

- - - - - - - - - - -

djnickuk, this is the first I’ve heard of a B&W HTM1D. I just looked at B&W’s website but didn’t see it there. Is this a rather new model? I've had my diamonds for about 10 months now but when I purchased them I wondered if there was another center channel Diamond other besides the HTM4D & HTM2D. I searched B&W's website back then too but found nothing but the HTM2D & 4D. I'm just curious about this. I don't plan on swapping my HTM2D for a 1D. My processor and amps are next on the list.

You mentioned an Ada crm4 and Datasat RS20i. When I Googled the “Ada crm4 “ one of the links that came up for avforums.com had the following description: “I will hopefully be completing a shoot-out between Ada crm4, bryston sp3 and classe ssp 800 in a month or so. But the ada movie performance, ...”. I’m not good at finding things on the web, as you can probably tell by my fumbling with my attempts to talk to ya'll. Would you happen to know if this shoot-out was completed and if so, it’s URL?
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post #13 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 02:38 PM
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I can quickly comment on the HTM1D. In the last generation of the 800 series there was a speaker, one step higher than the HTM2 and was designed specifically to go with the 802D, 801D and 800D speakers. It was a monster of a speaker and I deeply morn its passing and would like to slap B&W around for discontinuing it smile.gif It had 3 8" woofers and the marlan head found on the 802D, 801D and 800D speakers. I would buy one in a heart beat if it was still offered today.

Here is a link to some information about the speaker http://www.blu-ray.com/B-W-HTM1D/13908/

Perhaps djnickuk would be kind enough to post a picture of his setup just so you can get a sense of how big the speaker is as seen in a setup with 802's for reference.


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post #14 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Rod#S, thanks for info and the link for the HTM1D. Wow, weighing in at only 205 lbs, it kind of makes even the Classé CT-5300 amp seem rather light. eek.gif If the HTM1D was available when I bought my Diamonds about 10 months ago I would have bought it in a heartbeat. The HTM2D sort of looked to me like a 803D on it's side. But I'm very happy with my Diamonds and glad I bought them.
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post #15 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 05:53 PM
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Rod#S, thanks for info and the link for the HTM1D. Wow, weighing in at only 205 lbs, it kind of makes even the Classé CT-5300 amp seem rather light. eek.gif If the HTM1D was available when I bought my Diamonds about 10 months ago I would have bought it in a heartbeat. The HTM2D sort of looked to me like a 803D on it's side. But I'm very happy with my Diamonds and glad I bought them.

Ah so another missed purchaser. There have been a number of people I know of on some forums who would have bought the speaker if it was in the current lineup. To bad we couldn't petition B&W to bring it back smile.gif
Yes the HTM2 is indeed like a 803 on it's side (minus one bass drive of course) and priced the same as a single 803 whereas the HTM1D was considered a 802 on it's side (with an additional bass driver) but was priced much higher than a single 802, it was either $11,000 or $12,000, not as much as a pair of 802's but around the price of a single 801D (another speaker dropped in the new lineup).

I'm like you I think my HTM2 is great but knowing of the existence of the HTM1D always leaves me envious smile.gif

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post #16 of 33 Old 03-21-2013, 06:38 PM
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You guys could buy mine. Bought it new, used it about a year. It's been sitting in its box in my living room for almost 2 years while my new house is built. For my new HT, I'll use 3 equal speakers. The 802D's will go into the bedroom. I won't have much need for the HTM1D. I might put it in the bedroom as well, but it's overkill. Wife just bought a pro48 fridge and I was going to sell a kidney to cover it, but letting go of the htm1d might be a better plan.

 

 

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post #17 of 33 Old 03-22-2013, 04:44 AM
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Thanks but the excessive compulsive part of me wouldn't allow it. With the change of the grill now attaching via magnets and not pegs, the name change from B&W to Bowers& Wilkins with the new series, the nice silver trim around the speakers now plus the improved diamond tweeter and better crossovers all these things would pick away at me over time biggrin.gif

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post #18 of 33 Old 03-22-2013, 10:28 AM
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Rod, don't know if you're aware that there are over-the-counter treatments for that.

Sanjay
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post #19 of 33 Old 03-22-2013, 10:54 AM
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Since I owned the HTM1D with a pair of 800Ds and 4X 803Ds for 4 years, I have to say that there is no replacement for a big speaker like this when it comes to 800Ds period. The smaller HTM2D can in no way be compared to its bigger brother in both output and off-axis performance. Apart from that, it is inherently better regarding the compromises horizontally oriented speakers bring with them considering the whole mid+tweeter housing has nothing to do with the traditional MTM designs in the sense that it is almost vertically placed on top and slightly behind the woofers. As much as I loved the B&W trio, the fact that they don't produce it anymore is a repellant for me when it comes to LCR options from them anymore. Yes, I might (maybe!) a pair of 800Di in the future for the living room but for home cinema use I will stay with 3 same speakers this time after experiencing my 3 Danley SH50s as LCR in the sense that are all the same apart from performance that might also be subjective up to a degree.

And Rod, the HTM1D had a better crossover (in the 800Ds league) to begin with compared to the HTM2D and 802Ds. A lot of the improvement in the new line in 802Di downwards came to the improved and better matched to the 800Ds crossover. I am sure the difference between the old 802Ds vs 802Di is much bigger than 800D vs 800Di, yet I would still pick the HTM1D over the HTM2Di since no matter what - "There is no replacement fro displacement!!! I would still prefer the most important speaker in my Home Cinema to be no less in size, output, dynamics and clarity (mid frequencies) dues to design choices, than my L&R.

Now, it's a pity I have already sold mine (was listed here 2 months ago), but I still feel that you should go out a try one for yourself.
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post #20 of 33 Old 03-22-2013, 01:07 PM
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Rod, don't know if you're aware that there are over-the-counter treatments for that.

LOL biggrin.gif I know but what would be the fun in that

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post #21 of 33 Old 03-23-2013, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by JargonGR View Post

Since I owned the HTM1D with a pair of 800Ds and 4X 803Ds for 4 years, I have to say that there is no replacement for a big speaker like this when it comes to 800Ds period. The smaller HTM2D can in no way be compared to its bigger brother in both output and off-axis performance. Apart from that, it is inherently better regarding the compromises horizontally oriented speakers bring with them considering the whole mid+tweeter housing has nothing to do with the traditional MTM designs in the sense that it is almost vertically placed on top and slightly behind the woofers. As much as I loved the B&W trio, the fact that they don't produce it anymore is a repellant for me when it comes to LCR options from them anymore. Yes, I might (maybe!) a pair of 800Di in the future for the living room but for home cinema use I will stay with 3 same speakers this time after experiencing my 3 Danley SH50s as LCR in the sense that are all the same apart from performance that might also be subjective up to a degree.

And Rod, the HTM1D had a better crossover (in the 800Ds league) to begin with compared to the HTM2D and 802Ds. A lot of the improvement in the new line in 802Di downwards came to the improved and better matched to the 800Ds crossover. I am sure the difference between the old 802Ds vs 802Di is much bigger than 800D vs 800Di, yet I would still pick the HTM1D over the HTM2Di since no matter what - "There is no replacement fro displacement!!! I would still prefer the most important speaker in my Home Cinema to be no less in size, output, dynamics and clarity (mid frequencies) dues to design choices, than my L&R.

Now, it's a pity I have already sold mine (was listed here 2 months ago), but I still feel that you should go out a try one for yourself.

Whoa! That's one hell of a B&W setup you parted with. Why did you decide to go a differnt route especially since you seem to still like the speakers or you wouldn't be thinking of potentially getting a pair of the new 800's? I'll be adding a pair of 800Di's next month smile.gif As good as you say the HTM1D was, was it just that you wanted 3 identical speakers up front? If so why didn't you just add a 3rd 800D, the price was only like 1 or 2 thousand more than the HTM1D.

Unfortunately no way to try them out, that would only be possible in someone's home and my dealer never sold any when they were available. Buying used isn't really my thing because I'm so fussy. If there was even a hint of a scratch, fading etc. even if it was on the bottom or back I couldn't live with that, no way, it would eat at me just knowing it's there even knowing there is absolutely no impact on performance. A 2nd hand speaker would literally have to be as new. Even then like I mentioned above things lke the difference in cosmetics between the new and old design swould bother me.

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post #22 of 33 Old 03-26-2013, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello Rod#S, I’ve been under the weather the past several days, still not back with it yet, but I wanted to ask you about your power for your amps. You mentioned you had two Bryston 4B-SST's and a Bryston 6B-SST. What do you plug them into? Do you have one or more 20A circuits or 15A circuits, and are they dedicated circuits? What do you have plugged into each circuit? I’m trying to get a feel on what I’ll need so I won't have to find out the hard way. Looks like I’ll get the one 4B-SST2 C-Series & a 9B-SST2 C-Series configured with 3 Channels. Thanks for all your help.
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post #23 of 33 Old 03-26-2013, 02:33 PM
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I actually run everything off of a single 15 amp circuit. All 3 are plugged into the amp outlets of a Furman IT-Reference which offers momentary peaks of up to 60 amps. This product is long discontinued however the current incarnation would be the 20i. The IT-Reference is then plugged into a Furmam SPR-20i which is plugged into the wall.I know many people are going to scream, you fool, how dare you plug 3 amps like this into a single circuit, a 15 amp one at that smile.gif Well, I have plugged each into the wall directly via 2 separate 15 amp outlets and could not detect any difference in performance so I have the piece of mind that I get surge protection without any degradation in performance.

So what is plugged into what, here goes.

SPR-20i

2 Paradigm Reference Servo 15a subwoofers
Technics Dual cassette deck
Panasonic VCR
Original Xbox
PS3

IT-Reference

2 Bryston 4B-SST's
Bryston 6B-SST
Paradigm Signature Sub 25
Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ
Denon DVD-A1UDCI
Pioneer Elite PRO-150 60" plasma
Satellite HD receiver
Xbox 360
Sony 300 disc CD changer

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post #24 of 33 Old 03-26-2013, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I actually run everything off of a single 15 amp circuit. All 3 are plugged into the amp outlets of a Furman IT-Reference which offers momentary peaks of up to 60 amps. This product is long discontinued however the current incarnation would be the 20i. The IT-Reference is then plugged into a Furmam SPR-20i which is plugged into the wall.I know many people are going to scream, you fool, how dare you plug 3 amps like this into a single circuit, a 15 amp one at that smile.gif Well, I have plugged each into the wall directly via 2 separate 15 amp outlets and could not detect any difference in performance so I have the piece of mind that I get surge protection without any degradation in performance.

So what is plugged into what, here goes.

SPR-20i

2 Paradigm Reference Servo 15a subwoofers
Technics Dual cassette deck
Panasonic VCR
Original Xbox
PS3

IT-Reference

2 Bryston 4B-SST's
Bryston 6B-SST
Paradigm Signature Sub 25
Lexicon MC-12Bv5EQ
Denon DVD-A1UDCI
Pioneer Elite PRO-150 60" plasma
Satellite HD receiver
Xbox 360
Sony 300 disc CD changer

Nice gear.

I actually ordered the Bryston BIT20 isolation transformer to go along with my 6BSST2 and pair of 4bSST2. Will report once everything arrives.
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post #25 of 33 Old 03-26-2013, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Rod#S. Wow! eek.gif That's great news! I never would have guessed all that equipment could come off one 15A circuit...I have a 15A circuit and that's want has me concerned. So if I understand this correctly, with what is currently manufactured, or available today, I'd have my amps, etc plugged into a Furman IT-Reference 20i and then plug the Furman IT-Reference 20i into a Furmam SPR-20i?

Do you know if the currently offered Furman IT-Reference 20i has anything close to your model Furman with the 3 amp outlets with momentary peaks of up to 60 amps?

Here's my entire list of what I need to plug into my 15A circuit...(comparing equipment lists, it looks like there's a possibility I may have a little bit smaller load for the 15A circuit than you? What do you think?):

Panasonic TC-P65VT50 Plasma TV
Classé CT-SSP Surround Processor
Bryston 4B SST2 C-Series for the 802D's
Bryston 9B SST2 C-Series configured as a 3 channel for HTM2D & CCM-682's
B&W DB-1 Sub
TWC Scientific Atlantic Explorer 8300HDC DVR
Arcam BDP-300 Blu-Ray
XBox 360
In Adjacent Room: Older Model Sony Bravia 32" LED
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post #26 of 33 Old 03-27-2013, 09:42 AM
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Yeah your load wouldn't be as much as mine. The Furman IT-Reference 20i basically is my IT-Reference in all respects. It has the 4 dedicated amp outlets that my model has along with 4 banks of dual balanced outlets that my model has. Where the new 20i differs from my unit is it is a 20 amp unit throughout whereas mine is a 15 amp unit. My SPR-20i for example is a 20 amp unit and Furman simply offers two power cords with it, a true 20 amp one plus one for connecting to a 15 amp outlet. You probably don't need a unit like the SPR-20i, that's for my setup as there is power fluctations where I live and that unit simply ensures my gear always sees a constant voltage.

So in the end the 20i would be a great unit and as an alternative would be the Bryston BIT like adidino mentioned, that is supposed to be an excellent product and it will also match the cosmetics of your Bryston amps. Since you are all ready buying Bryston amps you may be able to get a great price on a BIT unit.

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post #27 of 33 Old 03-27-2013, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks very much Rod#S. This really puts the icing on the cake so-to-speak. smile.gif I looked up the current Furman IT-Reference 20i and it goes up to 80 amps eek.gif for momentary peaks…they also have a 15i which goes up to 55 amps for momentary peaks. I’m going to look into the Bryston BIT20 that adidino mentioned too. I’m a bit undecided as to whether I should include the Furmam SPR-20i. The IT-Reference 20i lists it constantly monitors incoming AC and if an overvoltage condition is detected power is automatically shut off to all connected equipment, has surge suppressor circuitry, and thoroughly cleans and conditions the AC power…but makes no mention about fluctuations in line voltage. I assume perhaps I would need both the IT-Reference 20i & SPR-20i to cover low line voltage conditions? Think I'm overlooking something?
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post #28 of 33 Old 03-27-2013, 08:03 PM
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The IT-Reference 20i does power conditioning and surge protection and provides balanced power whereas the SPR-20i performs voltage regulation plus surge protection. Definitely 2 units designed for difference needs. I'm not sure if the Bryston BIT units offer voltage regulation but I know there are Torus units that do if that is something you are interested in i.e. voltage regulation. The Bryston BIT units are to my understanding actually just specific Torus units with Bryston faceplates because so many Bryston owners wanted the matching cosmetics. Voltage regulation is something the vast majority of people/homes would never need as most homes see a very consistent voltage.

Here is the link to the Torus website and they offer different units with voltage regulation http://www.toruspower.com/

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post #29 of 33 Old 03-29-2013, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Rod#S, thanks very much for all your great help.
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post #30 of 33 Old 03-29-2013, 07:30 PM
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You're welcome

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