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post #91 of 217 Old 01-11-2014, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Maestro2be View Post

I sure do. It is better in every way. I have now had them all for months and there is no comparison. I have now completely removed my Meridian 861 (it's collecting dust). My Theta Casablanca is no hooked up to a video game computer and I no longer have a Datasat (returned it). It was the coolest of all the units, but not worth it's money to me. For many people, this will be the best they can get if you're not prepared (or knowledgeable enough to build your own system and troubleshoot every issue you will have).

There is no doubt it is superior in every way to all the processors listed above. I had them all hooked up in the same room for many months (not minutes or days). The exasound is so smooth and non-harsh compared to all of them it's night and day. I can literally turn up the volume to the point that my ears cannot take any more volume from just pure decibels of sound.

Even my wife said the exasound is better than all of them.

I am using JRiver 19 with Dirac and the Exasound e28 with upgraded clock. There are only a few issues that I have/had with this setup:

1. I am screwed/limited to only 8 channels and I doubt the manufacturer cares enough about 9+ channels to actually setup a driver to use more than one (I have asked many times and I don't get a promising answer, more of an avoiding answer) which makes me believe it will never happen. That gave me serious heartburn for months but finally had to move on and live with it the way it is (for now).

2. He claimed that this DAC worked with Dirac and it was seriously misleading and not quite truthful. In fact it took him months to come up with a solution for me. The DAC would playback through Dirac as a playback device but you couldn't use it as an output device during the recording playback/tone generation process of the room calibration. So this meant getting a totally separate sound card system just for the calibration process and then applying the results to a completely different playback system (the exasound DAC). This pissed me off for months and I pushed and complained and fought until a solution was forced to be found on his part. It's a clunky solution and still misleading but it supposedly works (I still haven't tried it from frustration of how much time I have spent doing his work for him). Therefore I am applying a Dirac filter that was created using an RME Hammerfall DSP Multiface 2 from my recording studio machine. I really don't care if the results are the same or just as good recording/calibrating from one sound card and then playing out through the DAC. I wasn't told I would have to go through all of this to get finished results and it amounted to months of frustration, troubleshooting and waiting.

Computer wise I never had any issues that I wasn't able to troubleshoot very quickly. JRiver took a bit of time to setup and comprehend all the amazing features. It's literally a Datasat in software format. Only once mastered, seemed more powerful and much better of a solution beyond a doubt.

3. 3D movies are an issue for several reasons. First off JRiver doesn't play 3D movies. So I purchased TotalMedia Theater 6 and integrated the 2 of them (so JRiver opened TMT6 when accessing a 3D movie). Problem here is, TMT6 doesn't work at all with ASIO drivers. So that is a fail also.

All in all, I am ok with the few issues I have had at this point. I have learned an incredible amount of information and also able to prove in every way it's a more superior solution to all the above listed. I have owned a meridian for 9 years, Theta for 7 and the Datasat was setup by the manufacturer. And yet the exasound is the clear winner in sound. But in total ease of use, it is the hardest of all solutions as the others require almost no knowledge in comparison. Simply do some speaker calibrations (or better yet pay someone to do it for you) and then pop in a Blu Ray and all is done.

If I had to do this all over again, I would do it all over again and choose the exasound. Now I just need to nag and nag and nag the creator of the exasound to get me a driver that works with two of them at once. The biggest issue he gave me was that being asynchronous and so powerful at maximum resolution there is really no more bandwidth available for a second one on the USB bus. I said well USB 3 has much more to spare (this is a USB 2 interface). I also mentioned you could have one use the USB 2 interface on the board/card and then USB 3 for the other. since they use separate busses.

Hope that helps.

Maestro2be

Your experience bode very well for my target configuration of server with Jriver and Dirac, lynx MCH card straight into MSB (mains) and NAD M51 (surround / center) dacs. If only get my "fixer" to complete my server repair and send it back to me....
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post #92 of 217 Old 01-12-2014, 01:36 AM
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Is it possible to use JRiver as cross over for active speakers or does that require a separate unit? I would like to have active frontspeakers. DEQX/Metric Halo is too expensive. Not sure if miniDSP has the needed inputs.
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post #93 of 217 Old 01-12-2014, 12:03 PM
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Problem here is, TMT6 doesn't work at all with ASIO drivers. So that is a fail also.

Download ASIOBridge from http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/
That one routes ALL sound from the computer into jrmc, and works much better than loopback.
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Is it possible to use JRiver as cross over for active speakers

Oh yes...smile.gif
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post #94 of 217 Old 01-13-2014, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by omholt View Post

Is it possible to use JRiver as cross over for active speakers or does that require a separate unit? I would like to have active frontspeakers. DEQX/Metric Halo is too expensive. Not sure if miniDSP has the needed inputs.

JRiver is a software package that has the capability to do crossovers. You will then need something to convert the digital signal to analog to drive your power amps for the active speakers.

It is possible to use a AVR like this - order the channels in JRiver and output via HDMI.

Other options include ExaSound E28 via USB or getting an internal soundcard in the PC to output a digital signal to outboard DACs (for example a Lynx AES16e / Xilica XD-4080 combination).

What's your budget?

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post #95 of 217 Old 01-13-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

JRiver is a software package that has the capability to do crossovers. You will then need something to convert the digital signal to analog to drive your power amps for the active speakers.
Ok. Is this what I would do with a two-way speaker with crossover at 1000 Hz and crossed over at 150 Hz to subs? Edit: No. I see this wouldn't work of course. I need filter for both the tweeters and midrange/woofers. As well as necessarry delay for the tweeters. But I don't see how and where this can be done.



Or instead of an external converter, I could maybe use two Lynx Two-B internal soundcards with a total of 12 outputs that feeds directly to poweramps? And a crossover unit in between (miniDSP or similar) for the multiple suboowofers?
I have no clue what to choose under audio devices for several channels from the Lynx though. I have one Lynx Two-B soundcard today. Also need to learn how to lock the volume for all the channels. Lynx' manual isn't very helpful. The Lynx forum can probably help me out if you guys don't know how.




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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

It is possible to use a AVR like this - order the channels in JRiver and output via HDMI.
Ok. This probably wouldn't be my first choice because of the degradation of sound a AVR gives, but I'm still curious to exactly how this is connected and done.
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Other options include ExaSound E28 via USB or getting an internal soundcard in the PC to output a digital signal to outboard DACs (for example a Lynx AES16e / Xilica XD-4080 combination).

What's your budget?
I just bought a used Lynx AES16, though original thought for something else. Uncertain of the quality of a Xilicia device. I can buy a used EaxSound E28 from a friend and perhaps this is a better option then internal Lynx Two-B soundcards? It's enough outputs If only run the fronts active and have a miniDSP for multiple subs in between. For some reason one just feels a bit safer with something external, especially a volume control. Again, I need a little of explanation of how exactly this is set up.

It would be nice to keep it below $2000-2500.
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post #96 of 217 Old 01-13-2014, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by omholt View Post

Ok. Is this what I would do with a two-way speaker with crossover at 1000 Hz and crossed over at 150 Hz to subs?

You first need to duplicate the channels so you have six channels (3 left, 3 right) then apply crossovers. For the left speaker there would be: left high, left mid, left sub and the same for the right, for a total of 6 channels output.

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post #97 of 217 Old 01-13-2014, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by omholt View Post

Or instead of an external converter, I could maybe use two Lynx Two-B internal soundcards with a total of 12 outputs that feeds directly to poweramps? And a crossover unit in between (miniDSP or similar) for the multiple suboowofers?
I have no clue what to choose under audio devices for several channels from the Lynx though.

I'm not sure if it is possible to send audio to two separate ASIO soundcards unless they can be linked somehow via the cards driver software. You would have to check with Lynx.

Is this for a two channel system or a home theater system? How many speakers & subs total?

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post #98 of 217 Old 01-13-2014, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

I'm not sure if it is possible to send audio to two separate ASIO soundcards unless they can be linked somehow via the cards driver software. You would have to check with Lynx.

Is this for a two channel system or a home theater system? How many speakers & subs total?
The Lynx Two-B soundcards can be linked, so that shouldn't be a problem. You can actually link a bunch if you computer permits it.
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Up to 8 LynxTWOs can be installed in one Windows computer; up to three in Macintosh computers

This is a home theater system. At the moment I have five passive speakers and three subs. Would like to go active with at least the fronts and possibly adding another sub.
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post #99 of 217 Old 01-13-2014, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by omholt View Post

The Lynx Two-B soundcards can be linked, so that shouldn't be a problem. You can actually link a bunch if you computer permits it.
This is a home theater system. At the moment I have five passive speakers and three subs. Would like to go active with at least the fronts and possibly adding another sub.

Two Lynx Two-Bs should work then! That would give you 12 outputs.

Other options would be:

- ExaSound E28 for 8 channels (assuming you are only actively biamping front left / right and not center, as that would need 9 channels) and then from the ExaSound into an external DSP such as a Xilica or MiniDSP to split the sub feed into 3/4 subs.
- Lynx AES16e to two Xilica XD4080s via AES/EBU (up to 8 input channels, 16 output channels with crossovers done within the Xilica rather than JRiver). The Xilicas actually sound very good, I use them often

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post #100 of 217 Old 01-13-2014, 03:13 PM
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The Xilicas actually sound very good, I use them often

Exactly how good are they..smile.gif..?
"Only" 24/96..
I currently use a Lynx Two-B, but I want/need more channels. One choice would be to add a Lynx Aurora, but they are costly and dont offer the functionality of the Xilica.

Nyall, have you tried the Lynx products yet..? Would like to know how you rate them, soundwise...
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Download ASIOBridge from http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/
That one routes ALL sound from the computer into jrmc, and works much better than loopback.
Oh yes...smile.gif

I downloaded and got the ASIO Bridge to work. When I have time I need to troubleshoot it not locking perfectly on to a sample rate (gives a red number that fluctuates around 44100 but never locks entirely and causes some pops and clicks/distortion). It isn't passing the full bitstream size of the Blu Ray movie (it's sending 16 bit 44100 instead of 24/48000 pr 96000).

But at least it is in fact playing 3D movies from TMT6, through the ASIO Bridge, into JRiver, out to Dirac Live and into my Exasound e28. It does have lots of lip sync issues as well to resolve.
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post #102 of 217 Old 01-14-2014, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Exactly how good are they..smile.gif..?
"Only" 24/96..
I currently use a Lynx Two-B, but I want/need more channels. One choice would be to add a Lynx Aurora, but they are costly and dont offer the functionality of the Xilica.

Nyall, have you tried the Lynx products yet..? Would like to know how you rate them, soundwise...

Xilica is good enough to be DSP processor brand of choice for Procella Audio and Legacy Audio.

I've always been put off by the pro sound card interfaces for home use, including the Metric Halo that I used. The Metric Halo for example, has some nasty on/off transients. A device like the ExaSound has output muting during switch on/off. And I've been doubly put off by devices like the Lynx Aurora that put a boat load of unrequired functionality such as A/D converters, mic preamps, blah blah.

Having said that beyond the Lynx AES16e card I have no other experience with Lynx.

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post #103 of 217 Old 01-15-2014, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post



..... And I've been doubly put off by devices like the Lynx Aurora that put a boat load of unrequired functionality such as A/D converters, mic preamps, blah blah.

Having said that beyond the Lynx AES16e card I have no other experience with Lynx.

 

If you are seeking 8-16 channels in the Lynx price range, I highly recommend the Lynx Aurora. 

 

The Lynx Aurora is a highly regarded AD/DA used with many early Trinnov units that used PC cards (Trinnov has had it's own hardware for years now).    Fox Pictures continues to use the Aurora with the Trinnovs in Post Production.  In particular, the Aurora is only a converter- no mic preamps.  Both the AD and DA sections are typically used: AD  for various analog sources- including the cal mic.  Comes as 8x8 or 16x16, fully balanced, with selectable sensitivity -10 or +4, and sample rates up to 192.   For the price, performance, functionality, they are hard to beat.  

 

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post #104 of 217 Old 01-15-2014, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

If you are seeking 8-16 channels in the Lynx price range, I highly recommend the Lynx Aurora. 

The Lynx Aurora is a highly regarded AD/DA used with many early Trinnov units that used PC cards (Trinnov has had it's own hardware for years now).    Fox Pictures continues to use the Aurora with the Trinnovs in Post Production.  In particular, the Aurora is only a converter- no mic preamps.  Both the AD and DA sections are typically used: AD  for various analog sources- including the cal mic.  Comes as 8x8 or 16x16, fully balanced, with selectable sensitivity -10 or +4, and sample rates up to 192.   For the price, performance, functionality, they are hard to beat.  

Cheers,

I stand corrected, thanks for the insight from experience!

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post #105 of 217 Old 01-21-2014, 10:00 PM
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1. I'd like to test Jriver and Dirac in my system, is it possible to use my ASUS Sabertooth Z87 analog multichannel output for direct feed to my amps?

2. Is it possible to use an HDMI capture card to feed video from another source such as Xbox or Cable box into Jriver?

Thanks!

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post #106 of 217 Old 01-22-2014, 01:12 PM
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What is the average overall price of the necessary hardware minus the basic components of the computer?
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post #107 of 217 Old 01-22-2014, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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1. I'd like to test Jriver and Dirac in my system, is it possible to use my ASUS Sabertooth Z87 analog multichannel output for direct feed to my amps?

2. Is it possible to use an HDMI capture card to feed video from another source such as Xbox or Cable box into Jriver?

Thanks!

1. Any soundcard will work. For Dirac you need a soundcard with a line in to record. For multichannel you will need a soundcard with however many channels your surround system has.

2. I would love to know if there is a way to get HDMI in, I do not think there is.

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post #108 of 217 Old 01-22-2014, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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What is the average overall price of the necessary hardware minus the basic components of the computer?

The main component is a multichannel soundcard or DAC. Anywhere from a couple of hundred dollars up. How much budget do you have?

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post #109 of 217 Old 01-23-2014, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

2. I would love to know if there is a way to get HDMI in, I do not think there is.

www.blackmagic.com has some HDMI PCIE I/O cards - low cost too. Of course they are not HDCP compliant. They are intended for pro video editing and graphics creation and HDCP isn't used in those applications.

The only thing that kept me from going down the JRiver route versus MiniDSP was the lack of ability to bring in multichannel audio in real time.

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post #110 of 217 Old 01-24-2014, 10:34 PM
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I ordered a splitter today that should strip HDCP from the HDMI feed before the capture card, will report back with my findings when it arrives.

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post #111 of 217 Old 01-25-2014, 09:30 AM
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www.blackmagic.com has some HDMI PCIE I/O cards - low cost too. Of course they are not HDCP compliant. They are intended for pro video editing and graphics creation and HDCP isn't used in those applications.

The only thing that kept me from going down the JRiver route versus MiniDSP was the lack of ability to bring in multichannel audio in real time.

I have been trying to crack this nut myself. I have my reconfigured (and now hopefully working) server with MCH Lynx card boxed up in the basement. If it all works out I will be ripping all my MCH content and play from disc storage. I will play "one offs" (Netflix BRs) in the blu ray drive of the server. The Lynx outputs will feed a stack of 3 x 2 channel DACs.

The only thing I cannot do is get the MCH Dolby signal from my satellite receiver running through the server. The HDMI video is not an issue - I run this into an HDMI switcher. The audio is the issue - I can grab it from the coax out, or the HDMI, but I am not aware of any card can do (including dolby -> lPCM decoding) this and run though JRiver.

Are you aware of anything, or any other way of doing this? As it stands, I'll probably run my satellite in 2 channel mode. Not watching much TV anyway...
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post #112 of 217 Old 01-26-2014, 07:19 PM
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my htpc:

 

http://www.anysee.com   tv/sat/cable receiver

http://www.asus.com/Sound_Cards_and_DigitaltoAnalog_Converters/Xonar_HDAV13_Deluxe   soundprocessor

http://www.team-mediaportal.com/    mediacenter

http://www.codecguide.com  codecs

no $20,000 setup but works great after a bit of fiddling with some software&codecs :D


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post #113 of 217 Old 01-28-2014, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I have been trying to crack this nut myself. I have my reconfigured (and now hopefully working) server with MCH Lynx card boxed up in the basement. If it all works out I will be ripping all my MCH content and play from disc storage. I will play "one offs" (Netflix BRs) in the blu ray drive of the server. The Lynx outputs will feed a stack of 3 x 2 channel DACs.

The only thing I cannot do is get the MCH Dolby signal from my satellite receiver running through the server. The HDMI video is not an issue - I run this into an HDMI switcher. The audio is the issue - I can grab it from the coax out, or the HDMI, but I am not aware of any card can do (including dolby -> lPCM decoding) this and run though JRiver.

Are you aware of anything, or any other way of doing this? As it stands, I'll probably run my satellite in 2 channel mode. Not watching much TV anyway...

Maybe an Atlona HD570?

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post #114 of 217 Old 01-29-2014, 06:33 AM
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This box won't do Dolby decoding. Besides, I would have run the 3 x 2 channel digital extracted from HDMI into the discrete inputs on my lynx card - not sure I can get to work with Jriver. Also, I am currently doing more or less what the Altona does (using coax output from receiver instead fo HDMI) plus dolby decoding using an old Meridian processor.
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post #115 of 217 Old 01-29-2014, 09:09 AM
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This box won't do Dolby decoding. Besides, I would have run the 3 x 2 channel digital extracted from HDMI into the discrete inputs on my lynx card - not sure I can get to work with Jriver. Also, I am currently doing more or less what the Altona does (using coax output from receiver instead fo HDMI) plus dolby decoding using an old Meridian processor.

Do you use something to strip HDCP from the signal? Wondering if that exposes the Dolby multichannel signal myself, haven't been able to try it yet myself.

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post #116 of 217 Old 01-29-2014, 09:12 AM
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Do you use something to strip HDCP from the signal? Wondering if that exposes the Dolby multichannel signal myself, haven't been able to try it yet myself.

I only have an issues with satellite TV, so HDCP is not an issue. for Blu Ray sources, I use a modded oppo with digital outputs into my trinnov. The oppo decodes and feeds the Trinnov LPCM.
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post #117 of 217 Old 01-29-2014, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I only have an issues with satellite TV, so HDCP is not an issue. for Blu Ray sources, I use a modded oppo with digital outputs into my trinnov. The oppo decodes and feeds the Trinnov LPCM.

More and more cable / satellite networks are enabling HDCP.. HBO was first, then of course Cinemax (an HBO owned service). Now Starz is HDCP on Dish Network. It won't be long before everybody does it. And there are no FCC restrictions on cable and satellite.

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post #118 of 217 Old 01-29-2014, 11:24 AM
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More and more cable / satellite networks are enabling HDCP.. HBO was first, then of course Cinemax (an HBO owned service). Now Starz is HDCP on Dish Network. It won't be long before everybody does it. And there are no FCC restrictions on cable and satellite.

I only watch American Idol, the oscars, superbowl and world-cup soccer. I should be OK for a while.
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post #119 of 217 Old 01-31-2014, 05:28 PM
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post #120 of 217 Old 02-08-2014, 06:09 PM
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Ok. So it took me a few months to get my HTPC sorted out because the audio was not working (I have Lynx for MCH and SotM for 2 channel over USB). It is finally working fine on 2 channel and MCH audio. Sound quality is phenomenal now. Just when I wanted to declare victory, I watched some videos (both ripped and played from the BR drive of the HTPC), and it is all screwed up. The top and bottom part of the image occasionally shift. It happens frequently enough to make video essentially unwatchable. I played a high rez video on youtube and this does not have the problem, so I have to believe the problem happens with playback of video files through JRiver 19. Anyone has any suggestions about what I can change in JRiver video setting to solve this problem?
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