The Official Mcintosh Labs MX-151 & MX150 Owner's Thread - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 618 Old 07-07-2014, 10:33 AM
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UPDATE:

I ran RoomPerfect on Friday - achieved 97%. It was really loud! Things were rattling in the room. After it was done, I was unimpressed. I actually preferred RP turned off.

On Saturday, I re-ran RP - again, achieving 97%. However, this time, after the initial sound check in the focus position, I turned the volume down 10db, and then continued with the focus and the room positions. Now, I definitely like the sound better with RP turned on. Overall, the sound is much more solid with RP than with Audyssey on my previous processor. I'm definitely liking it so far.


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post #572 of 618 Old 07-07-2014, 01:06 PM
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I don't think the volume reduction affects the measurement or results, only how obnoxious the test sounds are. Obviously one cannot turn the thing all the way down or no measurements will get taken, but short of that...............
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post #573 of 618 Old 07-07-2014, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
I don't think the volume reduction affects the measurement or results, only how obnoxious the test sounds are. Obviously one cannot turn the thing all the way down or no measurements will get taken, but short of that...............
Based upon actual experience, I'd have to disagree. Perhaps the sounds of other things vibrating could have an affect on it.


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post #574 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Based upon actual experience, I'd have to disagree. Perhaps the sounds of other things vibrating could have an affect on it.


Dave
I would measure at RP required volume, no more. It usually tells you to raise volume by a certain number during the first sound check if you are low. If the test tones produce too many anomalies in the room (vibrating furniture, etc..) it may attempt to apply too many filters. Curious, what was your correction % when you were done? Not room knowledge...
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post #575 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
Based upon actual experience, I'd have to disagree. Perhaps the sounds of other things vibrating could have an affect on it.


Dave

This is from the McIntosh RP set up instructions:

MEN220 and MX150 will initially indicate the correct volume setting up or down as needed to achieve 80Db at the microphone. This may be uncomfortably loud to some and a lower volume may be used in some situations. If a lower volume is used all other sounds in the room should be minimized.
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post #576 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess the question is are room modes linear based on decibel level. If frequency anomalies vary based on levels, this could impact results. If not, then volume shouldn't matter as much unless too low a setting permits background noises from affecting results.

More than likely, different positions and mic angles would result in different results.
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post #577 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
This is from the McIntosh RP set up instructions:

MEN220 and MX150 will initially indicate the correct volume setting up or down as needed to achieve 80Db at the microphone. This may be uncomfortably loud to some and a lower volume may be used in some situations. If a lower volume is used all other sounds in the room should be minimized.

Yes, this is exactly why I lowered the volume. It did not indicate it was too low, so I was good to go.


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post #578 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
I would measure at RP required volume, no more. It usually tells you to raise volume by a certain number during the first sound check if you are low. If the test tones produce too many anomalies in the room (vibrating furniture, etc..) it may attempt to apply too many filters. Curious, what was your correction % when you were done? Not room knowledge...

Hi adidino,


The correction % the first time was 39% - 36% the second time.


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post #579 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
I guess the question is are room modes linear based on decibel level. If frequency anomalies vary based on levels, this could impact results. If not, then volume shouldn't matter as much unless too low a setting permits background noises from affecting results.

More than likely, different positions and mic angles would result in different results.
I agree - changing those two variables would probably provide different results. I used the exact same angles and positions on my two RP runs.


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post #580 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
This is from the McIntosh RP set up instructions:

MEN220 and MX150 will initially indicate the correct volume setting up or down as needed to achieve 80Db at the microphone. This may be uncomfortably loud to some and a lower volume may be used in some situations. If a lower volume is used all other sounds in the room should be minimized.

At the top of page 26 in the MX-151 manual, there is a note:


Note: The Desired maximum calibration volume (-4.0db) level and the current (now -20.00dB) volume indications in figure 28 will probably be different in your room. The size of your room, loudspeaker distance from the microphone position and the efficiency of the loudspeakers all effect the readings. If the test signal was too loud, reduce it by using the Volume Control by 10dB (the example in figure 28 would now read -30.00dB). Select "Retry" then "Save Current". If for some reason the volume level needs to be higher, a "Measuring Error" will appear on the screen refer to figure 30.

I did not receive any measuring errors, based upon the lowered (10dB)volume, and the calibration produced much better results for my room. YMMV :-)


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post #581 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 04:58 PM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
I did not receive any measuring errors, based upon the lowered (10dB)volume, and the calibration produced much better results for my room. YMMV :-)


Dave
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post #582 of 618 Old 07-08-2014, 08:56 PM
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I just want to say thanks again to thrang for a terrific thread! You and Tony have found a real gem of a processor. I can understand why you mention it is an underrated processor. The RP is absolutely terrific! I've been following Tony's path to this processor for a long time, and thrang's for a bit shorter time, and I've also tried my share of processors. This one's a keeper, and I don't feel the need to look for another processor. I don't think I can give the MX-151 a better compliment.


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post #583 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 03:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
I just want to say thanks again to thrang for a terrific thread! You and Tony have found a real gem of a processor. I can understand why you mention it is an underrated processor. The RP is absolutely terrific! I've been following Tony's path to this processor for a long time, and thrang's for a bit shorter time, and I've also tried my share of processors. This one's a keeper, and I don't feel the need to look for another processor. I don't think I can give the MX-151 a better compliment.


Dave
That's great to hear...what amps and speakers do you use? What's your overall setup?

Every once in a while, I toy with the idea of selling it, not because I'm unhappy but only because of an eye on the future (figuring out the right time to sell something is a little like playing the stock market in this hobby). But when I really think about it, it's hard to see it being a wise move. For 4k and related video enhancements, I would upgrade my Lumagen to their future 4k processor. For audio, the only new thing on the horizon is voice of god ceiling point source speakers from competing object oriented sound design authoring tools.

I am not convinced this will see widespread adoption because of the added cost and complexity, and frankly wonder it it will fail worse than 3d. Personally, I don't envision bothering ripping up my ceiling unless it really takes off and rolls my socks down when I demo it.

And, or course, every time I sit down and turn it on, the quality of the sound continues to impress in a way no other component has continued to do, save perhaps my projector...
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post #584 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
That's great to hear...what amps and speakers do you use? What's your overall setup?

Every once in a while, I toy with the idea of selling it, not because I'm unhappy but only because of an eye on the future (figuring out the right time to sell something is a little like playing the stock market in this hobby). But when I really think about it, it's hard to see it being a wise move. For 4k and related video enhancements, I would upgrade my Lumagen to their future 4k processor. For audio, the only new thing on the horizon is voice of god ceiling point source speakers from competing object oriented sound design authoring tools.

I am not convinced this will see widespread adoption because of the added cost and complexity, and frankly wonder it it will fail worse than 3d. Personally, I don't envision bothering ripping up my ceiling unless it really takes off and rolls my socks down when I demo it.

And, or course, every time I sit down and turn it on, the quality of the sound continues to impress in a way no other component has continued to do, save perhaps my projector...
I am currently using a Krell S-1500 7 channel amplifier that has the SE upgrade from The Upgrade Company. I will probably be sending in my MX-151 to have it upgraded as well. All my speakers, including my subwoofer, are custom made one-offs from a place in Phoenix, AZ that had been open for 20 years, but had to shut its doors a couple of years ago due to the economy. It was called Celestial Audio/Video. The drivers are all Focal, and the cabinets and crossovers were hand-made.

The only other processor I thought of trying was the Krell Foundation, because I had heard that they finally got the hdmi to work well, and I heard some good things about what ARES does for the low frequencies. The advantage of the Foundation is that they are upgrading it for 4K and for HDMI 2.x, as well as 10 hdmi inputs. However, if folks are just going with a Lumagen, there's no need to have that in a processor. The Foundation would be my only remaining curiosity, at this point.

I had previously read your reasoning for sticking with the MX-151, and I agree completely, which led me to try it. I figure it's a processor that I will have for at least the next 3-5 years.

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post #585 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
I am currently using a Krell S-1500 7 channel amplifier that has the SE upgrade from The Upgrade Company. I will probably be sending in my MX-151 to have it upgraded as well. All my speakers, including my subwoofer, are custom made one-offs from a place in Phoenix, AZ that had been open for 20 years, but had to shut its doors a couple of years ago due to the economy. It was called Celestial Audio/Video. The drivers are all Focal, and the cabinets and crossovers were hand-made.

The only other processor I thought of trying was the Krell Foundation, because I had heard that they finally got the hdmi to work well, and I heard some good things about what ARES does for the low frequencies. The advantage of the Foundation is that they are upgrading it for 4K and for HDMI 2.x, as well as 10 hdmi inputs. However, if folks are just going with a Lumagen, there's no need to have that in a processor. The Foundation would be my only remaining curiosity, at this point.

I had previously read your reasoning for sticking with the MX-151, and I agree completely, which led me to try it. I figure it's a processor that I will have for at least the next 3-5 years.

Dave
Oh my, The Upgrade Company??? Everything I've read, and the lack of independent before/after data makes that a curious decision, let's say...

What about the fact that you'd voiding your McIntosh warranty?
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post #586 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 03:22 PM
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Oh my, The Upgrade Company??? Everything I've read, and the lack of independent before/after data makes that a curious decision, let's say...

What about the fact that you'd voiding your McIntosh warranty?
Yes, there has been negative press by one or two folks who have made a lot of noise. Also, the folks who prefer measurements over subjective listening and the folks who prefer DBT have made a lot of noise. David is a passionate guy, so early on, he did himself a big disservice by getting too emotional and getting on the forums. Since then, he pretty much stays away. I took that into consideration when I took the first plunge in upgrading my Pioneer Elite BDP-05FD blu ray player. But, the proof was in the listening. Plus, he has a 14 day guarantee. Talking to Dave on the phone, he was a completely different guy - very nice to deal with. I got a good deal on my first upgrade, so there was little risk. I've had 6-7 products upgraded by The Upgrade Company so far, and every one of them has been worth the money spent.

Regarding Warranty, TUC provides the warranty - a 5 year warranty. Out of all the components I had upgraded, the only one that has had issues was the SE upgraded Onkyo PR-SC5508 processor. It had the typical hdmi issue that a lot of Onkyos encounter. The hdmi board was replaced free of charge. Regarding my MX-151, I bought it used, so I don't have a McIntosh warranty anyway.

While it's true that David does not do things the standard way that other audio/video folks run their business, I'm nevertheless comfortable working with him. He's actually been incredibly generous with allowing me to try things out, and he doesn't have an issue if I return something I don't like (like cabling). He's probably the nicest person in the business that I have dealt with the past several years.

Regarding credibility, he's had equipment reviewed by reviewers from The Absolute Sound, stereotimes.com, dagogo.com, and in the last few years, two different folks on positive-feedback.com. If your familiar with positive-feedback.com, you'll know about the Brutus Awards, and David received one for his SE upgrade to the Oppo BDP-105 blu ray player, and another one for his SE upgrade to two Marantz components (PM15S1 and SA15S2). BTW, the review for the Absolute Sound never made it to print, because the Editor apparently nixed it.

I'm not trying to sell you on it, just sharing what I know about it. Of course, I'll be happy to share what I think of the upgraded MX-151, once I get that done. :-)

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post #587 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 03:29 PM - Thread Starter
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A five year warranty on the entire product, or just his work? I don't understand how he would get parts, if, say, an HDMI board or front panel display went bad. He's not authorized by McIntosh, correct?

If The Absolute Sound never published a review, how is it known it was reviewed by their reviewer?

How does his 14 day satisfaction work? If you pay the 1499 for the upgrade and don't like it, what happens?
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post #588 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
A five year warranty on the entire product, or just his work? I don't understand how he would get parts, if, say, an HDMI board or front panel display went bad. He's not authorized by McIntosh, correct?

If The Absolute Sound never published a review, how is it known it was reviewed by their reviewer?

How does his 14 day satisfaction work? If you pay the 1499 for the upgrade and don't like it, what happens?
Great Q's! I can share my experience, but I've also sent your Q's to David, and I will share his answers, when I get them. You can also call David and mention that David (me) sent you to him. Dave knows that I just bought the MX-151. Or, if you want to wait, I'll give you the answers when I get them.

If an hdmi board goes out then what happens? Well, with my SE Onkyo 5508, I called Dave and he mentioned that I should call an Onkyo Service Center and work with them on it as a Warranty issue. David didn't think the issue was due to his work, since the hdmi board was a known issue. I called an Onkyo Service Center, they took it in, and they repaired it with no questions asked. After I got it back, I called them and thanked them for the work they did, but I also asked them about the upgrade, because you can't miss it when you look inside the unit. They told me that if they had determined that the problem was due to the upgrade, they would not Warranty the fix. They found that the problem was the hdmi board and not the upgrade, which is why they replaced it under Warranty.

Regarding The Absolute Sound, I'm guessing that David had received a copy of the review done by Max Shepherd. It's on the TUC website, under Reviews and then The Absolute Sound.

OK, David just called me back. He said to check the FAQs on his website, which has the answers to your questions about the 5 year Warranty and the 14 day Guarantee.


Dave

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post #589 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post
That's great to hear...what amps and speakers do you use? What's your overall setup?

Every once in a while, I toy with the idea of selling it, not because I'm unhappy but only because of an eye on the future (figuring out the right time to sell something is a little like playing the stock market in this hobby). But when I really think about it, it's hard to see it being a wise move. For 4k and related video enhancements, I would upgrade my Lumagen to their future 4k processor. For audio, the only new thing on the horizon is voice of god ceiling point source speakers from competing object oriented sound design authoring tools.

I am not convinced this will see widespread adoption because of the added cost and complexity, and frankly wonder it it will fail worse than 3d. Personally, I don't envision bothering ripping up my ceiling unless it really takes off and rolls my socks down when I demo it.

And, or course, every time I sit down and turn it on, the quality of the sound continues to impress in a way no other component has continued to do, save perhaps my projector...
Yes I wish they would have a new one with ATMOS, DTS MDA and AURO 3D. I already have two in Ceiling speakers so I am ready my SSP-800 is getting long in the tooth

DATASAT looks appealing but too new with no track records in the Home
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post #590 of 618 Old 07-09-2014, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Great Q's! I can share my experience, but I've also sent your Q's to David, and I will share his answers, when I get them. You can also call David and mention that David (me) sent you to him. Dave knows that I just bought the MX-151. Or, if you want to wait, I'll give you the answers when I get them.

If an hdmi board goes out then what happens? Well, with my SE Onkyo 5508, I called Dave and he mentioned that I should call an Onkyo Service Center and work with them on it as a Warranty issue. David didn't think the issue was due to his work, since the hdmi board was a known issue. I called an Onkyo Service Center, they took it in, and they repaired it with no questions asked. After I got it back, I called them and thanked them for the work they did, but I also asked them about the upgrade, because you can't miss it when you look inside the unit. They told me that if they had determined that the problem was due to the upgrade, they would not Warranty the fix. They found that the problem was the hdmi board and not the upgrade, which is why they replaced it under Warranty.

Regarding The Absolute Sound, I'm guessing that David had received a copy of the review done by Max Shepherd. It's on the TUC website, under Reviews and then The Absolute Sound.

OK, David just called me back. He said to check the FAQs on his website, which has the answers to your questions about the 5 year Warranty and the 14 day Guarantee.


Dave

On customer-owned used units sent to The Upgrade Company for upgrading, we will pay the Audiogon Blue Book average of most recent sales and refund the upgrade fee less the shipping cost we paid or we will replace the unit with a stock identical unit and refund the upgrade fee paid.


So if you don't like it, you get the Audiogon Blue Book Value of your MX, which is certainly 20-50% less than retail depending upon the age of the equipment sent in, plus the return of the upgrade fee, minus shipping. And the tax you paid is gone of course. And now you have to buy again. That's a huge hit. I doubt one would get a new MX from him.

Regarding warranty, I would say you were very lucky that Onkyo repaired your modded unit. Nearly any manufacturer considers the warranty void once the case is opened by anyone other than their authorized service.
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post #591 of 618 Old 07-10-2014, 08:41 AM
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<b>
On customer-owned used units sent to The Upgrade Company for upgrading, we will pay the Audiogon Blue Book average of most recent sales and refund the upgrade fee less the shipping cost we paid or we will replace the unit with a stock identical unit and refund the upgrade fee paid.
</b>

So if you don't like it, you get the Audiogon Blue Book Value of your MX, which is certainly 20-50% less than retail depending upon the age of the equipment sent in, plus the return of the upgrade fee, minus shipping. And the tax you paid is gone of course. And now you have to buy again. That's a huge hit. I doubt one would get a new MX from him.

Regarding warranty, I would say you were very lucky that Onkyo repaired your modded unit. Nearly any manufacturer considers the warranty void once the case is opened by anyone other than their authorized service.
Looks like there's two options - you hit on one of them. The second option would be more desirable, of course. I think if you email David in advance and commit him to the second option, then there's nothing to lose. Regarding repair of a unit that's still under manufacturer's warranty, I would ask Dave via email or a phone call. Dave has worked on many different brands and pieces of equipment, but he did mention that McIntosh and Oppo have been the larger majority of all that he has upgraded. With that in mind, I'm sure he could tell you what would happen if there was a warranty repair needed.

Again, not trying to sell this, but just responding to your questions/concerns. It's the path I've chosen, and I'm really happy with it.

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post #592 of 618 Old 07-10-2014, 11:11 AM
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MX-160 at Cedia

Does anyone have the skinny on the MX-160 rumored to be introduced at CEDIA next month?
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post #593 of 618 Old 07-10-2014, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Does anyone have the skinny on the MX-160 rumored to be introduced at CEDIA next month?
I haven't heard any rumors in that vein at all. I think many people hope this, and correctly guess that's a good venue for McIntosh to announce something new, but in terms of actual whispers or rumors, nothing.

Nor could I say anything if I did hear!
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post #594 of 618 Old 07-10-2014, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post
A five year warranty on the entire product, or just his work? I don't understand how he would get parts, if, say, an HDMI board or front panel display went bad. He's not authorized by McIntosh, correct?
Dave mentioned to me that he's upgraded a lot of Onkyo processors, and he's actually either repaired at his cost or paid for each and every client to have their Onkyo HDMI etc issue repaired whenever it was not covered by the factory. He's guessing maybe 10 clients to date.


Dave

FOR SALE: Wireworld Platinum 6 1M HDMI Cable. Originally $1000, selling for $500 obo. Please PM me, if interested.
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post #595 of 618 Old 07-21-2014, 04:45 AM
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Hi, I spent the weekend getting the 151 and F113's into my system and I have a few questions regarding setup with the 151. I set the L/R fronts as Bi-amp Hi and the Aux 1/2 as custom with an 80hz LP through the OSD as I could not connect to the web interface. I am not getting any output to the subs at all. I cannot think of anything else as this point so I hope this is a Mr. Obvious questions. Any suggestions are most appreciated.


Thanks,
Doug
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post #596 of 618 Old 07-21-2014, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by doug760 View Post
Hi, I spent the weekend getting the 151 and F113's into my system and I have a few questions regarding setup with the 151. I set the L/R fronts as Bi-amp Hi and the Aux 1/2 as custom with an 80hz LP through the OSD as I could not connect to the web interface. I am not getting any output to the subs at all. I cannot think of anything else as this point so I hope this is a Mr. Obvious questions. Any suggestions are most appreciated.



Thanks,
Doug
If you intend to roll off the mains at 80hz in biamp mode, use BiAmp Hi, Size XL if you have subs plugged into the Aux 1/2 ports.
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post #597 of 618 Old 07-21-2014, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by doug760 View Post
Hi, I spent the weekend getting the 151 and F113's into my system and I have a few questions regarding setup with the 151. I set the L/R fronts as Bi-amp Hi and the Aux 1/2 as custom with an 80hz LP through the OSD as I could not connect to the web interface. I am not getting any output to the subs at all. I cannot think of anything else as this point so I hope this is a Mr. Obvious questions. Any suggestions are most appreciated.


Thanks,
Doug
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post
If you intend to roll off the mains at 80hz in biamp mode, use BiAmp Hi, Size XL if you have subs plugged into the Aux 1/2 ports.
Also, make sure the SUB output is disabled if you're just using Aux 1/2 (if you're using a third sub, then leave it enabled of course, connected to the SUB output)

I've also been told by McIntosh to set aux 3/4 to the same settings as 1/2 even if not using them. I dislike not knowing why, but could never get a clear answer.

When you go to the speaker configuration screen, can you set noise and hear anything (it is master volume dependent, to you have have to raise the 151 volume)

If you've properly configured the IP but cannot connect to the web interface, as well as having this problem, you might have to do a factory reset...you will have to set up your speaker settings again, and then try RP.
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post #598 of 618 Old 07-21-2014, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post
If you intend to roll off the mains at 80hz in biamp mode, use BiAmp Hi, Size XL if you have subs plugged into the Aux 1/2 ports.


Thanks for the reply... This conflicts with the stereo subs only on the 1rst and 12th thread that states to set the L/R mains as XXL unless I am just reading those posts wrong... I will give that a shot later today then. Do you have any idea why I cannot connect to the web interface? I have the correct gateway and I am using a crossover cable to connect to my laptop. The 151 just does not respond.


Doug
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post #599 of 618 Old 07-21-2014, 06:20 AM
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Thanks for the reply... This conflicts with the stereo subs only on the 1rst and 12th thread that states to set the L/R mains as XXL unless I am just reading those posts wrong... I will give that a shot later today then. Do you have any idea why I cannot connect to the web interface? I have the correct gateway and I am using a crossover cable to connect to my laptop. The 151 just does not respond.


Doug
If you have stereo subs only, should be XL. If you are using stereo subs plus the sub from the subwoofer output, use XXL.
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post #600 of 618 Old 07-21-2014, 06:38 AM
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If you have stereo subs only, should be XL. If you are using stereo subs plus the sub from the subwoofer output, use XXL.
Thanks... I will try those settings this evening... Now I just need to figure out that web interface and the 12 volt trigger setup.


Doug
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