The Official Mcintosh Labs MX-151 & MX150 Owner's Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 869 Old 06-16-2015, 09:31 AM
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I'll be curious as to whether the MX160 has any sonic improvements over the MX151. Or, is it just an MX151 with a few more features?

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post #812 of 869 Old 06-16-2015, 09:43 AM
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You didn't give one reason why datasat should sound better than mx-151.

Yes it can have more speakers and setup is more complex. Tell me if it has better power section, better dacs, better op amps, better anything beside software.

I am not saying datasat shouldn't cost 25k or it is bad. I am just saying for someone with electrical engineering background, having the best sound quality isn't its primary design goals. You should compare the two units when room correction is disabled anyway unless you are comparing the ability of the two room correction schemes.

Just for food for thoughts: most good subs like jl audio ones, comes with their own room correction. Having multiple subwoofer output isn't that necessary maybe?
I had them both in the same exact spot in the same exact room. Not just myself but all my visitors (without ever discussing cost of each component) preferred the RS20i. I guess you can say it was judged more so with our ears instead of what's on paper. Have you ever heard one in a dedicated room set up? And trust me I was a big fan of the MX151 and still am for rooms with less speakers.

As for subwoofers I am using two BalancedForce 212s from Martin Logan. Yes they came with their own microphone and set up procedure. The other sub out I use is for my butt kickers.

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post #813 of 869 Old 06-16-2015, 09:46 AM
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Best of luck, with your continued recovery (if not fully recovered yet). I always enjoy your reviews and your gear comparisons. On the plus side, having a good amount of time to spend in the theater is a really nice way to recover

I'll keep my eye on the MX160 - I really enjoyed the MX151. Soon, I will be trying the Theta Casablanca IV w/Dirac Live...

Dave
Thank you I appreciate it. And yes being able to make base in the back row while I recovered did help. Of course that wasn't until about week 2 or 3.


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post #814 of 869 Old 06-16-2015, 12:27 PM
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For those of you interested in the new batch of object audio processors: Datasat RS20i, Trinnov Altitude, future Classe, and 160, if they only had the 9 gbps chips, but were hdcp 2.2 compliant, would you still purchase one of them? Or would you consider them obsolete out of the box and pass? I would not want to lose the switching pass through nor the processor's gui by going direct to the projector...among the other obvious limitations...no hdr, 50/60 4:4:4 etc...

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post #815 of 869 Old 06-16-2015, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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That would end my interest.
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post #816 of 869 Old 06-17-2015, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
For those of you interested in the new batch of object audio processors: Datasat RS20i, Trinnov Altitude, future Classe, and 160, if they only had the 9 gbps chips, but were hdcp 2.2 compliant, would you still purchase one of them? Or would you consider them obsolete out of the box and pass? I would not want to lose the switching pass through nor the processor's gui by going direct to the projector...among the other obvious limitations...no hdr, 50/60 4:4:4 etc...
I would bet that DATASAT would do an update (hardware) to accommodate any future uber important HDMI specs. I believe I was told it would have a shelf life of at least 10 years or more of sound format and "other" feature updates. Another reason why you don't lose sleep over this purchase.


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post #817 of 869 Old 06-17-2015, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thezaks View Post
I'll be curious as to whether the MX160 has any sonic improvements over the MX151. Or, is it just an MX151 with a few more features?

Dave
I'm guessing similar, as it is very high with the 151. The added D150 style Dac is interesting, though some don't like going from analog back to digital domain for RP - this never bothered me.

I'd like to see if they made changes to how multiple subs could be configured, vs the aux bi-amp approach of the 151.

Unlike the 8802, it also appears that it doesn't even have options for wides, unless this is configurable in the software and uses one of the top out pairs. I would generally use four heights over two heights + wides anyway for now, until 9 bed speakers become a little more mainstream and I can have all six running.
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post #818 of 869 Old 06-23-2015, 03:44 AM
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Has anyone heard any new info from your dealers re the 160? For a processor supposedly coming any day, there is virtually no new or public info out there.
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post #819 of 869 Old 06-23-2015, 01:19 PM
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Apparently this is not yet ready for pre-order in Canada, at least from the two Platinum dealers I inquired from.

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post #820 of 869 Old 06-23-2015, 02:34 PM
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Curious, are the 18 gbps hdmi chips readily available in quantity now vs the 10.2 gbps chip set? How much is the price difference between the cost of these two chip sets? Anyone care to take a guess?
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post #821 of 869 Old 06-23-2015, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Cannot be much at all given the outpouring new avr's at far less cost - as long as the backbone bandwidth is there it should be a no brainier

I hope the delay is not because mcintosh is going with 10.2 gbps HDMI - would be one of the top 5 dumb things I've heard in this hobby I think...
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post #822 of 869 Old 06-23-2015, 04:47 PM
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With McIntosh's platform typically being non-modular, and difficult to upgrade, that would be beyond short sighted. I would welcome a delay if it increased the chances of the 160 having the 18gbps chip set with 2.0a.

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post #823 of 869 Old 07-05-2015, 07:59 AM
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Check out all these AVRs being released with HDMI 2.0a, 18 gbps, HDR, and HDCP compliant (link below). Prices are a fraction of the $14,000 MX160 msrp, yet these offer the latest chipsets. With the new McIntosh prepro being in development for years, it would be devastating to the sales and long term viability of the 160 if they went with the 10.2 gbps chip set. With McIntosh's tight lip on detailed 160 specs and with no updated info on release (another delay coming?) I am starting to get worried there has been a miscalculation on the 160 spec. The inability to do 4:4:4 50/60hz would be unacceptable, even though we are still years away from sources that support this, but being crippled with no HDR capability out of the box would defy logic. The forums are buzzing that HDR capability is just as important as the jump to a 4k pixel count.

I hope my concerns end up being for nothing, but with the continued silence on detailed specs, usually points to disappointment.

Has any of McIntosh's prior processors had a hardware hdmi upgrade? I noticed in the pictures a member posted, that the hdmi board has been relocated to the processors bottom. Looks like a nightmare for upgradeability purposes, unless the processor has a false bottom section, like the Sony 1000/1100es did.

http://hdguru.com/dolby-atmos-dtsx-h...rs/#more-16211

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post #824 of 869 Old 07-05-2015, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Rex View Post
Check out all these AVRs being released with HDMI 2.0a, 18 gbps, HDR, and HDCP compliant (link below). Prices are a fraction of the $14,000 MX160 msrp, yet these offer the latest chipsets. With the new McIntosh prepro being in development for years, it would be devastating to the sales and long term viability of the 160 if they went with the 10.2 gbps chip set. With McIntosh's tight lip on detailed 160 specs and with no updated info on release (another delay coming?) I am starting to get worried there has been a miscalculation on the 160 spec. The inability to do 4:4:4 50/60hz would be unacceptable, even though we are still years away from sources that support this, but being crippled with no HDR capability out of the box would defy logic. The forums are buzzing that HDR capability is just as important as the jump to a 4k pixel count.

I hope my concerns end up being for nothing, but with the continued silence on detailed specs, usually points to disappointment.

Has any of McIntosh's prior processors had a hardware hdmi upgrade? I noticed in the pictures a member posted, that the hdmi board has been relocated to the processors bottom. Looks like a nightmare for upgradeability purposes, unless the processor has a false bottom section, like the Sony 1000/1100es did.

http://hdguru.com/dolby-atmos-dtsx-h...rs/#more-16211
HDR and wide color are more important than 4k

For the time being, I have moved on from McIntosh - clearly, something went wrong, and I now have no desire to be an early adopter if they are in scramble mode right now...maybe in a year the dust will be more settled with them...
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post #825 of 869 Old 07-06-2015, 09:41 AM
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For the time being, I have moved on from McIntosh - clearly, something went wrong, and I now have no desire to be an early adopter if they are in scramble mode right now...maybe in a year the dust will be more settled with them...
Are you liking the AV8802 better than the MX150/151? If so, what (for you) makes it better?

Thanks,
Dave
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post #826 of 869 Old 07-08-2015, 03:03 PM
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My dealer checked with McIntosh today and was told that no MX160's had yet shipped but that the first batch should go out by "the end of the month". I said, "Hopefully, that will be by the end of this month."

John
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post #827 of 869 Old 07-08-2015, 08:04 PM
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Mx 160 seems to have HDBaseT output and a secondary ethernet port labeled Net2. 1 ethernet port can do 4k/60 in 8bit(4:4:4). If the second ethernet port(Net2) is for allowing higher bandwidth 4k/60 in 10bit, then there is a good chance hdmi ports are 18gbps. I don't see why else you would have a secondary ethernet port and its conveniently placed next to HDBaseT whereas Net1 is at the opposite corner of the back.

Even if the hdmi ports are 10 gigs and Mac allows 4k/60 in 10bit(4:4:4) on 2 ethernet ports later on via an firmware update, you can use this with a simple HDBaseT to Hdmi converter rather than sending the unit in for hw upgrade.
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post #828 of 869 Old 07-09-2015, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uderman View Post
Mx 160 seems to have HDBaseT output and a secondary ethernet port labeled Net2. 1 ethernet port can do 4k/60 in 8bit(4:4:4). If the second ethernet port(Net2) is for allowing higher bandwidth 4k/60 in 10bit, then there is a good chance hdmi ports are 18gbps. I don't see why else you would have a secondary ethernet port and its conveniently placed next to HDBaseT whereas Net1 is at the opposite corner of the back.

Even if the hdmi ports are 10 gigs and Mac allows 4k/60 in 10bit(4:4:4) on 2 ethernet ports later on via an firmware update, you can use this with a simple HDBaseT to Hdmi converter rather than sending the unit in for hw upgrade.
When I last looked into it, HDbaseT receivers/transmitters were limited to 10 gbps. Even if the internal transmitter in the 160 can be firmware upgraded, a new chipset will likely be required when the specs changes to boost it to 18. Unless the 160 is sent in for a new transmitter, I doubt it will be upgradeable.

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post #829 of 869 Old 07-09-2015, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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If the input HDMI ports are not 2.0a, 18 gb output doesn't really matter. Or what am I missing here?

I hope the boys from Binghampton are listening...
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post #830 of 869 Old 07-09-2015, 05:26 AM
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Mx 160 seems to have HDBaseT output and a secondary ethernet port labeled Net2. 1 ethernet port can do 4k/60 in 8bit(4:4:4). If the second ethernet port(Net2) is for allowing higher bandwidth 4k/60 in 10bit, then there is a good chance hdmi ports are 18gbps. I don't see why else you would have a secondary ethernet port and its conveniently placed next to HDBaseT whereas Net1 is at the opposite corner of the back.

Even if the hdmi ports are 10 gigs and Mac allows 4k/60 in 10bit(4:4:4) on 2 ethernet ports later on via an firmware update, you can use this with a simple HDBaseT to Hdmi converter rather than sending the unit in for hw upgrade.
Based on the pictures I've seen of the rear panel, the MX 160 has 1 HDBaseT port and 2 Ethernet ports. Though the jack is the same type, they definitely aren't interchangeable. I suspect the 2nd Ethernet port is for connecting another device that needs network connectivity, though the location of it does seem rather odd. One possibility is that HDBaseT has the ability to carry 10/100 Ethernet in addition to carrying the audio and video, so it's possible that the 2nd Ethernet port is for sharing an Ethernet connection on the HDBaseT wire so that the user doesn't have to run another CAT6 cable if they don't have a spare one in the room (this would rely on using a HDBaseT receiver at the other end of the cable that also supports breaking out the Ethernet connection) or would be a nice way to avoid having to run 2 CAT6 cables to a display device that's being hooked up via HDBaseT and also needs an Ethernet connection. That would make the location of the 2nd Ethernet connector somewhat less odd.

And just a bit of clarification on terminology to help avoid confusion - the HDBaseT port isn't an Ethernet port. There's a single HDBaseT port and 2 Ethernet ports (labeled Net1 and Net2), not 3 Ethernet ports.

Last edited by gsr; 07-09-2015 at 05:30 AM.
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post #831 of 869 Old 07-09-2015, 08:37 AM
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Correct. HDbaseT isn't for ethernet but the socket is physically 1:1 ethernet and transmission is over a typical cat-5/6 cable.

Also correct is it is currently limited to 10jigs. If mac was to provide 18jigs hdmi ports, why also throw in a 10jigs hdbaset? I am now more leaning towards 10jigs hdmi ports all around. Perhaps mx-161 a year later with 18jigs hdmi ports?
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post #832 of 869 Old 07-09-2015, 02:02 PM
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Can you imagine paying $14,000 for a processor and then a year later a 161 shows up without the bottlenecks and has the 18 gbps chipset. This is what worries me and why I will pass on the processor if it ships with 10.2 (unless McIntosh releases an upgrade feasibility statement). If no statement is made then many will not pull the trigger. I know they are known for vintage gear, but at the release of a new processor, really. 😧
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post #833 of 869 Old 07-09-2015, 03:26 PM
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Correct. HDbaseT isn't for ethernet but the socket is physically 1:1 ethernet and transmission is over a typical cat-5/6 cable.
The socket isn't "Ethernet" - as that's a protocol, not a connector. The socket is an RJ45 or 8P8C modular connector used for HDBaseT (which is a different protocol). Referring to it as Ethernet will just lead to confusion.
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post #834 of 869 Old 07-13-2015, 01:24 PM
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Hello !
I come from Germany ! The MX 160 come for 151 , is the big Processor ! Comes a new Processor for MX121, smaller ?
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post #835 of 869 Old 07-13-2015, 05:04 PM
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I don't think there is an announced 121 successor yet

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post #836 of 869 Old 07-16-2015, 07:37 AM
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Its mid July, any updates? I am curious how they will implement auro 3D w/ vog. I am not too concerned about passing 10bit 4k video. I feed my lumagen radiance directly into my display.
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post #837 of 869 Old 07-16-2015, 01:59 PM
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I have been considering upgrading to an MX-160 when it comes out. I did ask my dealer about whether it will have 18gbps or 10.2 for HDMI and the answer I received was 10.2. What I was told is that McIntosh has tested the 18gbps and said that it does not work on distances longer than 1 foot and that for longer distances, it will require powered HDMI cables. According again to the guy I spoke with, and assuming I am remembering correctly, McIntosh has tested the "red laser" output of 4k/60 from the red laser and that it does not work with the 18gbps HDMI ports. As I understand it, supposedly being able to do video switching with 4K/60 is not practical currently and it may be a situation when the players come out that are capable of this and are mated with displays that can handle it, that the video will need to go directly from source to projector/TV. I wonder if the 18gbps HDMI ports that are listed on some of the other units are more "spec race" than of additional practical utility. Perhaps time will tell?

I am not terribly knowledgeable about the technical issues above and if I have misstated or misunderstood what I was told, I apologize. The above may not all be correct, but it is the best I can remember. If nothing else, I am pretty confident that the MX-160 will not have the 18gbps HDMI ports, but will have 10.2.

Also, my dealer says that he is hearing end of the month for relase too......
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post #838 of 869 Old 07-16-2015, 06:44 PM
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I have thought about this for some time. For those of us with front projectors it might be a long time before hdr/wcg is implemented, as it is not practical for bulb based projectors. To reach the peak nits/umens required for the hdr/wcg spec would mean equipping the projector with a high powered, very hot running, super bright bulb. Perhaps a future laser light source projector will hit the spec, but they are not ready for prime time yet. Commercial projectors are a different animal and have already been released with enhanced color capability.

The uhd bluray standard for the forseeable, and likely distant future is 24p at 4:2:2 color. From what I remember, the 10.2 chip can handle 24p up to 4:4:4 color. My theater is for movies only, so I have lttle concern for uhd 4:4:4 60p future sources i.e. sports etc. So unless you are connecting the MX160 to an hdr/wcg capable led/oled display I don't think we are losing much, other than it would be nice to know the hdmi headroom is there. My 1100es has the 10.2 gbps chip so I am not as concerned as I initially was.

It would be nice if McIntosh announces that there is an upgrade path for the HDMI board, but I doubt that will happen.

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post #839 of 869 Old 07-17-2015, 06:26 AM
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I think 10gbps chip can do 4k/60 but only in 8bit 4:2:0.
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post #840 of 869 Old 07-17-2015, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine View Post
I have been considering upgrading to an MX-160 when it comes out. I did ask my dealer about whether it will have 18gbps or 10.2 for HDMI and the answer I received was 10.2. What I was told is that McIntosh has tested the 18gbps and said that it does not work on distances longer than 1 foot and that for longer distances, it will require powered HDMI cables. According again to the guy I spoke with, and assuming I am remembering correctly, McIntosh has tested the "red laser" output of 4k/60 from the red laser and that it does not work with the 18gbps HDMI ports. As I understand it, supposedly being able to do video switching with 4K/60 is not practical currently and it may be a situation when the players come out that are capable of this and are mated with displays that can handle it, that the video will need to go directly from source to projector/TV. I wonder if the 18gbps HDMI ports that are listed on some of the other units are more "spec race" than of additional practical utility. Perhaps time will tell?

I am not terribly knowledgeable about the technical issues above and if I have misstated or misunderstood what I was told, I apologize. The above may not all be correct, but it is the best I can remember. If nothing else, I am pretty confident that the MX-160 will not have the 18gbps HDMI ports, but will have 10.2.

Also, my dealer says that he is hearing end of the month for relase too......
You should find a new dealer...what a maroon....
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