Are Steinway and Lyngdorf Series S worth the money? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 07-29-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone,


Would like to see if anyone here own a pair or know someone who owns a pair and have tested them?

I mean the entrance fee for this equipment is not cheap, but for their entry level Series S is expectable. I think they go for something like 25,000 USD. It comes with two bookshelf and two subs. With 4 amps and a pre-amp.

Would love to hear some REAL feedback and not from paid blog writers.

Will be replacing Mark 390s, B&W 805, MC-275. Thanks.

Been a USER of Hi Fi Equipment for more than 20 years. Definitely not an expert level, but a experienced novice.
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post #2 of 27 Old 08-04-2013, 07:31 AM
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Having recently heard a full 7.4 SL S system in a perfect constructed home cinema environment I can honestly say that the system was the finest quality system I have ever heard, the sound was sincerely jaw dropping at all levels including insanely high db levels that were effortlessly delivered and never remotely hard on the brain/ears to listen too.

The owner of this £200k system (£100k kit + £100k room construction) has been running a series of open days in his London property for UK based a/v forum members and so far has probably had 30+ a/v fanatics round to audition his system, NO one has been other than totally beguiled by the system.

What a 2.2 system would be like I have no idea but I would have no hesitation in buying one IF I could possibly afford it.

If you want a link to what others have said about the system I can post it if you like, unless you have already seen it.
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post #3 of 27 Old 08-04-2013, 02:46 PM
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+1 to the above. Absolutely phenomenal speaker system
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post #4 of 27 Old 08-04-2013, 04:39 PM
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I can only +1 to the above too - awesome clarity at all volume levels, and the 0dB noise floor of the SL systems (it's digital from source to speaker driver via Cat5, AIUI) is something to behold.

It's a shame the US is so big and there are only a few dealers for the SL gear - in the UK everywhere is only a few hours drive away, so it's not a major mission to go and audition some. If you can get to somewhere that has them, or even find someone who is willing to demo their personal install, do it! smile.gif
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post #5 of 27 Old 08-07-2013, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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thank you for your replies, I guess I was skeptical about the value proposition because there is simply not a lot of reviews on that. I am going to try the stereo setup which will cost around 25000 usd. I mean that is no small change, but I guess if you add everything up in a ultra high end stereo setup, meaning with the usual amp, preamp, transport, DAC plus accessories like speaker wires, interconnects and so on. the bill be close to 25,000 usd. The real big bucks comes when u want to upgrade to the higher series or when u want a surround setup. the s series surround will probably run you 53000 usd I think. sell all my old equipment I can probably recover 30,000 so need to save up for it.

I've demoed the s series in stereo but never the ht setup. I am a fan of big American style speakers. been using klipsch on and off over the years. was wonder for ppl out there who've demoed the ht setup. would like to know the following:

1.which series was demoed?
2. I am a big fan of "punchy" in your face kind of bass. does the steinways give you that?
3. have anyone got to test the LS boundary woofer? the one that is stackable and it's basically like two front firing woofers?
4. how would the Macintosh mx 151 with mc207 with klipsch ultra II speakers stack up with this system?
5. one of the selling point for the SLOW system is the room correction software. with that in mind, does it mean the room acoustic is not that important? I know that if the room was constructed to be acoustically correct there will be a difference compare to one that is not, but with the room correction software, is it worth it to spend the money on the room treatment?

thanks a lot for everyone's input, will post something once I get mine setup.

cheers,
Stephen

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post #6 of 27 Old 08-17-2013, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen_bj View Post

thank you for your replies, I guess I was skeptical about the value proposition because there is simply not a lot of reviews on that. I am going to try the stereo setup which will cost around 25000 usd. I mean that is no small change, but I guess if you add everything up in a ultra high end stereo setup, meaning with the usual amp, preamp, transport, DAC plus accessories like speaker wires, interconnects and so on. the bill be close to 25,000 usd. The real big bucks comes when u want to upgrade to the higher series or when u want a surround setup. the s series surround will probably run you 53000 usd I think. sell all my old equipment I can probably recover 30,000 so need to save up for it.

I've demoed the s series in stereo but never the ht setup. I am a fan of big American style speakers. been using klipsch on and off over the years. was wonder for ppl out there who've demoed the ht setup. would like to know the following:

1.which series was demoed?
2. I am a big fan of "punchy" in your face kind of bass. does the steinways give you that?
3. have anyone got to test the LS boundary woofer? the one that is stackable and it's basically like two front firing woofers?
4. how would the Macintosh mx 151 with mc207 with klipsch ultra II speakers stack up with this system?
5. one of the selling point for the SLOW system is the room correction software. with that in mind, does it mean the room acoustic is not that important? I know that if the room was constructed to be acoustically correct there will be a difference compare to one that is not, but with the room correction software, is it worth it to spend the money on the room treatment?

thanks a lot for everyone's input, will post something once I get mine setup.

cheers,
Stephen
I have heard many high end systems from JBL Synthesis to Meridian etc the SL system blows them away.

The boundry woofers are mental. I've heard the stackable versions ie 2 stacked in each corner using 4 dual 12". Mind blowing bass that will punch very hard.

You need NO room treatment at all.

Music reproduction is as good as movie reproduction. There is no compromise at all.

I can not afford an SL system but I can assure you if I could it would be at the top of my list. I love American equipment and have owned many items from ADA to Def Tech BP3000 etc but the SL system is in another league.
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post #7 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kbfern View Post

Having recently heard a full 7.4 SL S system in a perfect constructed home cinema environment I can honestly say that the system was the finest quality system I have ever heard, the sound was sincerely jaw dropping at all levels including insanely high db levels that were effortlessly delivered and never remotely hard on the brain/ears to listen too.

The owner of this £200k system (£100k kit + £100k room construction) has been running a series of open days in his London property for UK based a/v forum members and so far has probably had 30+ a/v fanatics round to audition his system, NO one has been other than totally beguiled by the system.

What a 2.2 system would be like I have no idea but I would have no hesitation in buying one IF I could possibly afford it.

If you want a link to what others have said about the system I can post it if you like, unless you have already seen it.

Yes can you please send me the links? Also would like to know where I can audition the LS sub in London. I go to Italy twice a year for business, maybe I can swing by London for an audition please let me know how I can do that thanks.

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post #8 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbfern View Post

Having recently heard a full 7.4 SL S system in a perfect constructed home cinema environment I can honestly say that the system was the finest quality system I have ever heard, the sound was sincerely jaw dropping at all levels including insanely high db levels that were effortlessly delivered and never remotely hard on the brain/ears to listen too.

The owner of this £200k system (£100k kit + £100k room construction) has been running a series of open days in his London property for UK based a/v forum members and so far has probably had 30+ a/v fanatics round to audition his system, NO one has been other than totally beguiled by the system.

What a 2.2 system would be like I have no idea but I would have no hesitation in buying one IF I could possibly afford it.

If you want a link to what others have said about the system I can post it if you like, unless you have already seen it.

can you please clarify what 7.4 SL S system mean. Do you mean it is a S-series 7.4 system with 2 s-series subs and two LS subs? Thanks. Also how can I contact this person for an audition? thanks.

Been a USER of Hi Fi Equipment for more than 20 years. Definitely not an expert level, but a experienced novice.
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post #9 of 27 Old 04-10-2014, 01:15 PM
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The guy that has the system in London has stopped doing the demo's now as the property is on the market for sale. The UK distributor who also has all the Steinway Lyngdorf systems on demo is in Newbury in Berkshire which is probably a 30-40 min train ride out of central London.

I would contact them and ask if you are in London can you stop by. They are very accommodating and may be able to give you an address in London where you can hear the systems if you are unable to get to Newbury.

http://www.geckohomecinema.com

If you want too send me a pm with your e-mail address I can send you the Home Cinema Choice magazine article in pdf of the review they did for the London home cinema.

Regards

Keith
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post #10 of 27 Old 05-14-2014, 01:20 AM
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I've been quoted a Steinway S system for a new Theater room I'm equipping. The guys I work with had done a comparative spec with Revel Gems and in ceilings and back and struggled to find a worthy processor, speccing a the Lexicon MC-14(which we agreed was a flawed offering). After being talked up positively and reading the thoughts here, for nearly the same quoted cost, I'd say I'm going to enjoy a Steinway S system much more. I'd prob sit there with the Revels knowing that I'm listening to the speakers I use as surrounds in my main system as mains and centre in this room- which I'm sure would niggle me slightly.

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post #11 of 27 Old 05-14-2014, 04:50 AM
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Not sure if you pulled he trigger yet but take a look at the McIntosh mx151 which also uses Lyngdorf Room Perfect room correction.

It deserves serious consideration. I couldn't be happier and I've gone through several processors over the years.

Just something to think about, if you haven't already
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post #12 of 27 Old 05-14-2014, 06:37 AM
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A
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Not sure if you pulled he trigger yet but take a look at the McIntosh mx151 which also uses Lyngdorf Room Perfect room correction.

It deserves serious consideration. I couldn't be happier and I've gone through several processors over the years.

Just something to think about, if you haven't already

Adidino.. My man, you already know I just put an MX-150 in my main system and loving it from my posts in the owners thread right? This is for a barebones new dedicated room in another location. The cost out on the Steinway vs say doing mixed equipment and say throw in a Mc at full retail here ($18K, as opposed to my near new $6200 bargain on the MX-150) and it's actually diff to justify unless you starting stepping back to Marantz- which will just be too reminiscent of my many years of Audyssey equipped gear, might as well throw my spare 4520 in frankly if I was going that way.

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post #13 of 27 Old 05-14-2014, 06:39 AM
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post #14 of 27 Old 05-14-2014, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Lol just remembered that! smile.gif

Thought that would jog your memory lol.

I'm am pretty keen on the Steinway as a total package. I'm sure you could build a Theta/Datasat/ or another Mc system over there for what the Steinway costs here locally. But in doing the math it would actually cost more to do so here unfort, unless I slowly picked up gear from all over the place secondhand or demo stock. If I had the time to do that I'd consider it, but for this room, it kinda needs to get done along with the rest of the fit out. I'm not even going to try to keep the VW1000 for it as the extra premium for the upgrade and time to get the kit here isn't worth it. I'll prob source a 500ES from Japan @ $8K landed.

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post #15 of 27 Old 05-19-2014, 03:48 AM
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Listened to a private 7.4 installation of the S-System in London last week and it sounded great.

Comparing pricing of their system (S or M and S-Systems mixed) with other high quality speaker solutions their prices come in at very similar levels - as long as you use their 4-channel instead of 2-channel amplifiers and pick the matte and NOT the piano gloss versions of their speakers and subwoofers (which are double the price pretty much). Adding up a high quality processor, 7+ channels of amplification and speakers/subwoofers comes in at very similar prices with most high-end brands. And you save some on cables.....

Only issue is that one is locked into their technology and can not swap out speakers or electronics easily.
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post #16 of 27 Old 05-19-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by HamburgCity View Post

Listened to a private 7.4 installation of the S-System in London last week and it sounded great.

Comparing pricing of their system (S or M and S-Systems mixed) with other high quality speaker solutions their prices come in at very similar levels - as long as you use their 4-channel instead of 2-channel amplifiers and pick the matte and NOT the piano gloss versions of their speakers and subwoofers (which are double the price pretty much). Adding up a high quality processor, 7+ channels of amplification and speakers/subwoofers comes in at very similar prices with most high-end brands. And you save some on cables.....

Only issue is that one is locked into their technology and can not swap out speakers or electronics easily.

I totally agree with you. For the 5.1 fit out I'm doing(room is too small to benefit from any more channels), I can't put together anything that will sound better than the Steinway S for the same money and I've racked my brains to come up with gear options. If I try to put in another MX-150/151 or a Theta Casablanca with the right dacs, then add amplification and speakers, I'll end up spending more for a result that won't necessary beat the Steinway S. Def good in the system I'm speccing that my front speakers will be behind the screen, so def won't be need any pretty cabinet finishes - not that I've every been that worried about such things.

My one gripe is most definitely being locked into the one system and technology. I've never ever done this with any system before. I hope I don't live to regret it when things like object based audio becomes available. On the positive side my A/V dealer trades everything, so I can always trade my way out of the whole system and start again down the track worst case.

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post #17 of 27 Old 05-20-2014, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

My one gripe is most definitely being locked into the one system and technology. I've never ever done this with any system before. I hope I don't live to regret it when things like object based audio becomes available. On the positive side my A/V dealer trades everything, so I can always trade my way out of the whole system and start again down the track worst case.

I share your only concern. With regards to the object based audio I would not worry too much though. I spoke to Steinway Lyngdorf's Head of Sales & Marketing for Europe about the new codecs and upgrade paths and they have already signed-up with Auro, potentially they might with Atmos too. I understand once the technologies are a bit more underway (also in terms of content, and probably only next year) there will be a new processor for their system supporting all those formats. I understand if a customer is looking to upgrade their system to something like auro, i.e. add the required speakers and amplifiers they will swap out the processor giving full credit of the original price, i.e. if the new one would cost a bit more you just end up paying the difference to the original processor price.

But obviosuly exchanging the whole system, i.e. going for different speakers altogether would be more difficult.
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post #18 of 27 Old 05-20-2014, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by HamburgCity View Post

I share your only concern. With regards to the object based audio I would not worry too much though. I spoke to Steinway Lyngdorf's Head of Sales & Marketing for Europe about the new codecs and upgrade paths and they have already signed-up with Auro, potentially they might with Atmos too. I understand once the technologies are a bit more underway (also in terms of content, and probably only next year) there will be a new processor for their system supporting all those formats. I understand if a customer is looking to upgrade their system to something like auro, i.e. add the required speakers and amplifiers they will swap out the processor giving full credit of the original price, i.e. if the new one would cost a bit more you just end up paying the difference to the original processor price.

But obviosuly exchanging the whole system, i.e. going for different speakers altogether would be more difficult.

Ok wow, that's great info. That's def the kind of customer service that impresses me and gives confidence in their proprietary systems. Doing it that way is really keeping the customer on side. biggrin.gif

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post #19 of 27 Old 05-20-2014, 04:47 AM
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There is an old thread where I visited their 2 demos in pacific design center. In neither of the 2 demos was I able to hear properly through the microperf screen, as say with quested amt. I ran away from S L as fast as I could. It appears they fixed it in London . But something to consider. Meyer Acheron also suffered from same thing. You should own a system that plays well with the scteen.
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When I listened to the S System I felt there may at times have been some of that "sound trapped behing the screen" effect. It was not as strong though and the system overall sounded great. The screen in that installation was a woven screen though and not microperforated.

Also in the system I listened to S speakers where used for the front and they radiate higher frequencies to the front AND sides and not just to the front so that would theoretically make sounds bouncing behind the screen worse.

Probably as Peter says best to get the screen first and then test some speakers behind it if possible.
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post #21 of 27 Old 05-20-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

There is an old thread where I visited their 2 demos in pacific design center. In neither of the 2 demos was I able to hear properly through the microperf screen, as say with quested amt. I ran away from S L as fast as I could. It appears they fixed it in London . But something to consider. Meyer Acheron also suffered from same thing. You should own a system that plays well with the scteen.
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Originally Posted by HamburgCity View Post

When I listened to the S System I felt there may at times have been some of that "sound trapped behing the screen" effect. It was not as strong though and the system overall sounded great. The screen in that installation was a woven screen though and not microperforated.

Also in the system I listened to S speakers where used for the front and they radiate higher frequencies to the front AND sides and not just to the front so that would theoretically make sounds bouncing behind the screen worse.

Probably as Peter says best to get the screen first and then test some speakers behind it if possible.

The guys who do my work seem to be keen on using the AT screen. I will check with them, but I would expect that they would have used them in that config. I'll shoot an email off now, no harm in asking for comments.

EDIT: I spoke to the local dealer doing my install, having quoted the concerns raised here directly with him via email. He's thoughts were that the install would def not use the side radiating S version speakers(common sense) and also (a given I would have assumed anyway) not use the speaker grills of course in a behind screen install. He states his main S L equipped demo room uses a woven fabric AT screen and together with the compensation that Room Perfect adds for any frequency discrepancy, he's not had any issues or negative observations about the sound in that set up. He quoted short of hooking up an oscilloscope, it would be practically impossible to measure any acoustic effect from the Screen Innovations AT screen. There is also a possibly once they get more time to workout the install, that there may be room for all of the front speakers to be placed under the cinemascope screen (with grills in place of course).

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post #22 of 27 Old 05-20-2014, 11:58 PM
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I have only had a couple occasions to hear the Lngdorf system and all were in heavily compimissed spaces.
These experiences were not very positive.

I'd make sure you listen to a Wisdom system before you write the check. http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products_sage-series.php
IMHO I think they are some of the best performing systems available.
They have such a Jeckly & Hyde nature.
You can listen to an intimate vintage jazz recording that provides a sense of being there like nothing else I have experienced.
Then fire up a block buster like Lone Survivor and scare yourself with the realisim and bone crushing dynamics.
Every new recording or movie is a "holy shite this is amazing" moment.

I'd highly recommend the L75's all around, a pr of STS subwoofers and a rack full of dual purpose arc welder/amps from LabGruppen.
This combination with scare children and stun small animals with ease.

Full disclosure I bought a Wisdom system over Lngdorf and couldn't be more thrilled.

Oh and don't put the speakers or at a min the center anywhere but behind the screen.
With either of these system and a high quality woven screen there will be zero compromises in fidelity with realisim that only a center speaker behind the screen can delivery.

Happy hunting.
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post #23 of 27 Old 05-21-2014, 12:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

I have only had a couple occasions to hear the Lngdorf system and all were in heavily compimissed spaces.
These experiences were not very positive.

I'd make sure you listen to a Wisdom system before you write the check. http://www.wisdomaudio.com/products_sage-series.php
IMHO I think they are some of the best performing systems available.
They have such a Jeckly & Hyde nature.
You can listen to an intimate vintage jazz recording that provides a sense of being there like nothing else I have experienced.
Then fire up a block buster like Lone Survivor and scare yourself with the realisim and bone crushing dynamics.
Every new recording or movie is a "holy shite this is amazing" moment.

I'd highly recommend the L75's all around, a pr of STS subwoofers and a rack full of dual purpose arc welder/amps from LabGruppen.
This combination with scare children and stun small animals with ease.

Full disclosure I bought a Wisdom system over Lngdorf and couldn't be more thrilled.

Happy hunting.

A tad late now as dealer has 50% deposit on the S L. Gotta say I love when people pass on helpful advice but happen to miss my purchase decision timing by a matter of days rolleyes.gif. The Wisdom distributor is in Victoria, aka interstate from me here in Australia. I just spoke to them and they only have a demo room down there, meaning a plane flight. Their local Sydney dealer has nothing on display and don't seem to have much by way of a web presence that I can find - the distributor didn't mention their contact details. I spoke at length about costing up a similar system to the S L. I turns out the pricing is most def matched to SL pretty much once everything is added including your STS subs rec. It's unfortunate that Audiophile brands like Wisdom are thinly represented here as it's extremely hard to get people interested if they can only demo them in one location in the whole country. I would have like to have checked them out but logistically it's just bit in the too hard basket for a system that's due to be completed in approx 3-4 weeks time at the latest.

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post #24 of 27 Old 05-21-2014, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

I have only had a couple occasions to hear the Lngdorf system and all were in heavily compimissed spaces.
These experiences were not very positive.
Happy hunting.

I was very interested in Wisdom Audio speakers (the line sources) too. As a matter of fact I tried hard to find a place to listen to these anywhere in Europe and the brand is so far doing an absolutely terrible job of showcasing these anywhere.
Thanks to a very engaged UK distributor I could have listened to the point sources in a customer's home but given I was interested in the line sources I did not want to take their time.

Also I heard from various people that the line sources do not work well for smaller spaces and need a lot of distance between speakers and seating position for drivers to integrate. The point sources on the other hand dont seem so different from other AMT + driver designs only with the need for twice the number of amps and either Wisdom's dated crossover or something like a Datasat all of which makes it power hungry and expensive

Could you compare A/B in the same or at least similar rooms? I would be very interested in your opionions of such a direct comparison.
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post #25 of 27 Old 05-21-2014, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by HamburgCity View Post

I was very interested in Wisdom Audio speakers (the line sources) too. As a matter of fact I tried hard to find a place to listen to these anywhere in Europe and the brand is so far doing an absolutely terrible job of showcasing these anywhere.
Thanks to a very engaged UK distributor I could have listened to the point sources in a customer's home but given I was interested in the line sources I did not want to take their time.

Also I heard from various people that the line sources do not work well for smaller spaces and need a lot of distance between speakers and seating position for drivers to integrate

Which line sources would that be? I can't see that would be a problem with the LS series from a technical point of view. But who knows, as you say these are close to impossible to audition in Europe.
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post #26 of 27 Old 05-21-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post

A tad late now as dealer has 50% deposit on the S L. Gotta say I love when people pass on helpful advice but happen to miss my purchase decision timing by a matter of days rolleyes.gif. The Wisdom distributor is in Victoria, aka interstate from me here in Australia. I just spoke to them and they only have a demo room down there, meaning a plane flight. Their local Sydney dealer has nothing on display and don't seem to have much by way of a web presence that I can find - the distributor didn't mention their contact details. I spoke at length about costing up a similar system to the S L. I turns out the pricing is most def matched to SL pretty much once everything is added including your STS subs rec. It's unfortunate that Audiophile brands like Wisdom are thinly represented here as it's extremely hard to get people interested if they can only demo them in one location in the whole country. I would have like to have checked them out but logistically it's just bit in the too hard basket for a system that's due to be completed in approx 3-4 weeks time at the latest.

Sorry I don't want to as my dad was fond of saying "take the shine off the penny".

Peter Lyngdorf is a brilliant man.
Sounds like we have the opposite problems. I was unable to find a suitable demo that was relatively convenient.
The capabilities to deliver a stunning performance look to all be in place.
Its also very important to have ready access to experienced and capable installer with calibration experience for the respective systems.
Given the flexibility and control i liken to to a fine grand piano. It can either be the worst thing you have ever heard or the best. It all comes down to the tuning.

I'm sure you will love the SL.
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post #27 of 27 Old 05-21-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by trans_lux View Post

Sorry I don't want to as my dad was fond of saying "take the shine off the penny".

Peter Lyngdorf is a brilliant man.
Sounds like we have the opposite problems. I was unable to find a suitable demo that was relatively convenient.
The capabilities to deliver a stunning performance look to all be in place.
Its also very important to have ready access to experienced and capable installer with calibration experience for the respective systems.
Given the flexibility and control i liken to to a fine grand piano. It can either be the worst thing you have ever heard or the best. It all comes down to the tuning.

I'm sure you will love the SL.

Yep thanks. We def did have the opposite problem there it sounds like in terms of demo availability.
I do have confidence in the SL dealer as I've been a customer of theirs now for nearly 15 years and business has been a leading high end HT and custom installation shop for 27 years now. And when I say they do high end, it is definitely in line with the likes of SL's products i.e. Wilson, MBL, Burmester, Dan D'Agostino,Theta, Pass Labs,VPL,M Levinson, Gryphon, etc.

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