Who's going to CEDIA and what manufacturers popular in this forum are showing products? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 09-10-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Does Trinnov or Datasat have rooms? PHC, Mark Seaton, Quested or others? Theta???biggrin.gif:D

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post #2 of 43 Old 09-10-2013, 09:09 AM
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I am going for the first time but haven't done any research yet
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post #3 of 43 Old 09-10-2013, 09:50 AM
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Datasat usually partnered with someone. Last year it was Seaton. Might be the same this year. Might not be a bad idea to ask Mark.

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post #4 of 43 Old 09-10-2013, 10:26 AM
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I can see that Datasat and PHC booths are next to each other. Theta are there. But no mention of seaton / quested or trinnov. But could just be cedias site needs an update.
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post #5 of 43 Old 09-10-2013, 02:06 PM
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PHC, Procella and JBL Synthesis all have sound rooms. Those would be the three to check out. Not sure if Seaton if showing. Last year Datasat were with Klipsch off site in a hotel.

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post #6 of 43 Old 09-10-2013, 07:50 PM
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Datasat is showing with Triad in a sound room.

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post #7 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 12:00 AM
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Datasat is also showing with Constellation Audio and Magico and their new 18" X 2 Q Sub . 550 Lbs., 8000 Watts, 136 dB @ 20 Hz with 1% THD, 34mm excursion each, and a 7000 VA PS. I have an appointment with Magico. I'll report. Norm
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post #8 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

PHC, Procella and JBL Synthesis all have sound rooms. Those would be the three to check out. Not sure if Seaton if showing. Last year Datasat were with Klipsch off site in a hotel.

Talked to Mark... no Seaton there.

What SSP(s) are the aforementioned speaker manufacturers using?

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #9 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 04:43 PM
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Some more details from a SSE (Seymour Screen Excellence) dealer circular:

Wisdom Audio (Audio Room 702) with a 250-inch widescreen version of the new SSE J-frame featuring our flagship Enlightor 4K screen material. The front soundstage will have three 10-foot tall line arrays, a new prototype projector from Runco, about 60kW of amplifier power, seating for 24, and of course our huge Enlightor-4K screen. “This may be the highest-performing room at any CEDIA ever,” says Chris Seymour!

DataSat (Sound Room 18) has a high-end demo outfitted with Triad Speakers, a 3-chip Digital Projection and a 144-inch wide, widescreen version of our J-frame fixed-frame, also using our Enlightor 4K ISF-certified screen surface. The content of the demo is NeoX theatrical from DTS!

For the second year in a row, we’ve outfitted Procella Audio (Sound Room 12) with a 148.5-inch version of our Reference Series Fixed-Frame (also Enlightor 4K surface).

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post #10 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Talked to Mark... no Seaton there.

What SSP(s) are the aforementioned speaker manufacturers using?

Procella will be using Storm Audio's new processors, maybe with Auro processing, maybe not.

The others not sure.

A current project I'm working on we are speccing in an ADA Cinema Reference smile.gif

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post #11 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 06:15 PM
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That StormAudio prepro looks interesting - it also promises Auro3D processsing.
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post #12 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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What is Auro 3-D and if you have Trinnov or Dirac Live, why would one care about it?

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #13 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

What is Auro 3-D...
Delivery format for commercial theatres with up to 13.1 channels (7.1 + 6 height channels), which includes their proprietary surround processing to upmix 5.1 and 7.1 soundtracks to upto 13.1.
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...and if you have Trinnov or Dirac Live, why would one care about it?
Because having room correction doesn't mean you have surround processing/decoding. Like asking if you have Audyssey, why would one care about PLIIx.

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post #14 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I guess I just don't quite understand that if I have 2-D or 3-D remapping on the Trinnov and it does it's magic, what i would get with yet another algorithm placed on top of that?

My Home Theater of the Month- Le Petit Trianon

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #15 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks. I guess I just don't quite understand that if I have 2-D or 3-D remapping on the Trinnov and it does it's magic, what i would get with yet another algorithm placed on top of that?

Depends on how good the upmix algorithm is...this stuff is too new and unproven to really know what is good, better, best

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post #16 of 43 Old 09-11-2013, 09:55 PM
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Theta will be demoing their new Promestheus monoblocks with Aerial 7Ts. But Jeff I think you are on Theta's "no-fly" list so good luck finding it!@@@rolleyes.gif

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post #17 of 43 Old 09-12-2013, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Procella will be using Storm Audio's new processors . . .

From a September 11, 2013, TWICE com article (link):
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"StormAudio will enter the U.S. market with a CEDIA Expo launch of high-end surround processors, amplifiers and other electronics targeted to high-end residences, luxury hotels and yachts. . . .

The Home Edition of the SSP16-3D is priced at $13,000 . . .
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post #18 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks. I guess I just don't quite understand that if I have 2-D or 3-D remapping on the Trinnov and it does it's magic, what i would get with yet another algorithm placed on top of that?

 

Remapping is an spatial conversion of various format standards to an individual room. Some of the new formats are upmixes, and some are actually new formats for content creation and delivery (similar in some cases to PLII , where there is encode/decode, as well as new discrete formats that may be adopted for consumers, such as Atmos).   For the new formats based on content creation (not up-mixes) become available, they may be adopted by Trinnov for remapping.

 

What makes Trinnov's  2D and 3D are remapping a powerful tool, is the ability to adopt any format assumption (standard) to the user's specific speaker installation.  There are several multi-channel format assumptions in the current Trinnov software, and as more formats become adopted, the formats may be added in a software update.  As no speaker configuration can have native, ideal placement for all formats, Trinnov 2D/3D provides an ideal way to correctly re-build the spatial image as intended by the various sources/content providers.

 

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post #19 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Thanks. I guess I just don't quite understand that if I have 2-D or 3-D remapping on the Trinnov and it does it's magic, what i would get with yet another algorithm placed on top of that?

The various non-Trinnov surround algorithms tell your processor how to "interpret" the signal. For example, whether to read the 5.1 signal and "infer" that there should have been a back surround signal, and then creating that back surround signal in a 7.1 system. Or, whether to "infer" that there was height information implied in the signal and then creating a height signal in a DSX system. In all cases the processor ASSUMES that all the speakers are in the exact proper location and that when their signals reach your ears that they are heard as if they were firing from the exact proper location.

The Trinnov 2D and 3D remapping does the opposite. It makes each speaker appear, aurally, as if it is coming from exactly the right location in space. But, it ASSUMES that each channel is being fed a signal that you want to come out of those exact locations in space.

The two different approaches are complementary.
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post #20 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt_Trinnov View Post

Remapping is an spatial conversion of various format standards to an individual room. Some of the new formats are upmixes, and some are actually new formats for content creation and delivery (similar in some cases to PLII , where there is encode/decode, as well as new discrete formats that may be adopted for consumers, such as Atmos).   For the new formats based on content creation (not up-mixes) become available, they may be adopted by Trinnov for remapping.

What makes Trinnov's  2D and 3D are remapping a powerful tool, is the ability to adopt any format assumption (standard) to the user's specific speaker installation.  There are several multi-channel format assumptions in the current Trinnov software, and as more formats become adopted, the formats may be added in a software update.  As no speaker configuration can have native, ideal placement for all formats, Trinnov 2D/3D provides an ideal way to correctly re-build the spatial image as intended by the various sources/content providers.

Cheers,


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

The various non-Trinnov surround algorithms tell your processor how to "interpret" the signal. For example, whether to read the 5.1 signal and "infer" that there should have been a back surround signal, and then creating that back surround signal in a 7.1 system. Or, whether to "infer" that there was height information implied in the signal and then creating a height signal in a DSX system. In all cases the processor ASSUMES that all the speakers are in the exact proper location and that when their signals reach your ears that they are heard as if they were firing from the exact proper location.

The Trinnov 2D and 3D remapping does the opposite. It makes each speaker appear, aurally, as if it is coming from exactly the right location in space. But, it ASSUMES that each channel is being fed a signal that you want to come out of those exact locations in space.

The two different approaches are complementary.

I'm slowly getting it.. So, if Dolby Atmos is ever to come to be, something could be done in the Trinnov software to decode it?

But for your standard modes, the Trinnov already has things pretty ideal and whatever it does to 'improve' things, a similar mode could be set up in the Trinnov memory.

For example, I use PL IIx for everything. It is essentially matrixing things to my rears on 5.1 tracks and doing it's thing elsewhere. Is there any advantage to run PLIIx decoded audio (LPCM) into the Trinnov or just programming a similar mode using the Trinnov controls would do as much (or better). Or am I missing something?

Otherwise, if Atmos comes to be in home, I'd, ideally, wait for Trinnov to incorporate such into a MC or buy a processor like that has digital output with Atmos decoding on board and connect to Trinnov? Correct?

Any advantage with DTS Neo X decoding or should Trinnov match it. I don't know exactly what is happening with DTS Neo X. I don't know if it is content creation or an up-mix.

Thanks!

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post #21 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 05:36 PM
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I'm slowly getting it.. So, if Dolby Atmos is ever to come to be, something could be done in the Trinnov software to decode it?

But for your standard modes, the Trinnov already has things pretty ideal and whatever it does to 'improve' things, a similar mode could be set up in the Trinnov memory.

For example, I use PL IIx for everything. It is essentially matrixing things to my rears on 5.1 tracks and doing it's thing elsewhere. Is there any advantage to run PLIIx decoded audio (LPCM) into the Trinnov or just programming a similar mode using the Trinnov controls would do as much (or better). Or am I missing something?

Otherwise, if Atmos comes to be in home, I'd, ideally, wait for Trinnov to incorporate such into a MC or buy a processor like that has digital output with Atmos decoding on board and connect to Trinnov? Correct?

Any advantage with DTS Neo X decoding or should Trinnov match it. I don't know exactly what is happening with DTS Neo X. I don't know if it is content creation or an up-mix.

Thanks!

Trinnov doesn't decode surround formats.

So if Atmos comes out your processor will send decoded Atmos signals to the Trinnov unit. (In my current case, the lower "ADA section" of the Reference section performs surround mode decoding and then feeds the upper half Trinnov section of the Reference; in some future case a future Oppo with a Vanity board sending post Auro decoded signals directly to the Trinnov.) Trinnov will then put every single channel in that already decoded signal in the exact right place aurally.

PL IIx and Neo X and Trifield, etc. all extract "phantom" and/or "matrixed" signals. Trinnov puts those phantom signals into the exact right spot in your room.

They are complementary because they do very different things.

In my case I use PL II, Neo, etc. for multichannel movie materials, which get sent to the Trinnov to put each channel into the exact right speakers. I use "stereo" for two channel music signals. For the latter, Trinnov sends output to all 11.1 channels, creating a stunning "stereo" image that trounces what I get with PL II or Neo or Trifield (etc.) without Trinnov.

ps -- the Trinnov also does room and speaker correction, but that's more like an "advanced Audyssey" or "alternative to Dirac."
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post #22 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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OK. Got it. Thanks, Bruce.

I'm planning on using a modded Oppo BD player to send a digital input to the Trinnov.

I imagine, I could decode surround modes (Like Neo X) with my ADA Mach IV SSP and send that via the SSP's HDMI output into the digital input of my Oppo BD player and out the modded digital outputs of the Oppo... Correct?

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post #23 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 05:59 PM
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I imagine, I could decode surround modes (Like Neo X) with my ADA Mach IV SSP and send that via the SSP's HDMI output into the digital input of my Oppo BD player and out the modded digital outputs of the Oppo... Correct?

Conceptually yes, although I don't know if the ADA and Oppo would play nicely together that way. For multichannel source material you could also send the analog signal out of the ADA to the analog inputs of the Trinnov. You'd have redundant A/D, but that wouldn't be a big deal and would still sound great.
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post #24 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I imagine for simplicity's sake, someone makes a HDMI to AES converter that strips HDCP?! That would be easiest!smile.gif

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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #25 of 43 Old 09-13-2013, 07:58 PM
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Thanks, I imagine for simplicity's sake, someone makes a HDMI to AES converter that strips HDCP?! That would be easiest!smile.gif

Arvus Group has a HDMI/AES converter but I am still unsure if it deals with HDCP. I talked to the owner and he told me yes, but other people have contacted them and had the no answer back.

What about a HTPC with AES outputs?

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post #26 of 43 Old 09-14-2013, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Arvus Group has a HDMI/AES converter but I am still unsure if it deals with HDCP. I talked to the owner and he told me yes, but other people have contacted them and had the no answer back.

What about a HTPC with AES outputs?

Good call. And add a HDMI splitter into the Arvus for additional sources and use the Trinnov for volume control.

Or plug my SSP into the ARVUS but then deal with two volume controls.

Thanks

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post #27 of 43 Old 09-14-2013, 07:16 AM
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Jeff. Just ask your wife to explain this stuff to you. smile.gif

I am not going this year because of my broken leg, smashed ankle. Three more months or so in the cast.

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post #28 of 43 Old 09-14-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Jeff. Just ask your wife to explain this stuff to you. smile.gif

I am not going this year because of my broken leg, smashed ankle. Three more months or so in the cast.

What happened??

My wife as you might recall plays loves movies but stays out of the minutia of it all and the finances (and likewise, I don't look at her shopping bills). Everyone's happy!
That said, she is a far smarter cookie than I am... I'm smart enough to know that.

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post #29 of 43 Old 09-14-2013, 03:47 PM
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Going to CEDIA. Just starting to plan what I want to see.
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post #30 of 43 Old 09-14-2013, 08:18 PM
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Wish I was able to attend this year.

Will be coming next year for sure...

Jeff - if you have some time, I would like to borrow your ears. If you could check out the JBLPro M2 for me. Supposed to be demoed in the Synthesis room this year. Your feedback would be appreciated.

Tony

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