Best 3 5 or 7 channel Amplifier to Mate with Datasat RS20I - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

I am looking for the best 3 5 or 7 channel amplifier to mate with the Datasat RS20I.

My Setup consist of the following:

Danley SH50 (Front Two)
Danley DH69 (centre)
Danley SH100 4 surrounds

ATI 3007 Amplifier


My Speakers are a little bright and edgy being horns, but I can trade them off as I prefer the soundstage they create, the Danley are extremely sensitive being at 100dbs

The kind of sound am looking for is very transparent, Warm, clean and has authority. I would like something that can excel in Music. I do like the sound of Class A Amps but not sure how this will mix into the system,

Am looking at the following amplifiers to upgrade.

AB International ( 3 Channel Amplifier) and then use the ATI to run the rest.

Cinepro

ATI 6007 series, "Not yet available but am afraid the upper end may not be so sweet like its little brother"

Earthquake Grande

Anthem




Or would be better if I focus on 3 Mono Blocks for the fronts and leave the ATI to do the rest. I was looking at Class A or a Class AB which are warmer sounding.


Pass Labs

Coda

or MSB Mono Blocks

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #2 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 09:07 AM
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http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/danley/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/SH-50-spec-sheet11.pdf

If there are your mains, I don't think anything you list will work. The specs call for 1000W a channel. It looks like they sell powered versions and their own amps and sound processor.

http://mixonline.com/news/danley_dsla_dslp48_2303/
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post #3 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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They don't need to be powered with 1000 watts. The speakers are 100db I have tried a 5 watt Class a Tube amp with great results and the upper frequency smoothness is astounding. The problem is for home theatre use the Solid state amplifiers are more etched.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #4 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 10:05 AM
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5 or 7 channel amplifiers are not the best choice in a high end system. You really don't want all your channels sharing one power supply. Granted there are designs that have a power supply per channel. Multichannel amps are great however for surround duty.

An ideal setup IMO would be good mono blocks on the LCR's. A 700w minimum amp on the subs, here class D amps are acceptable these days. And then a lower power multi amp on the surrounds. 100w per surround speaker is plenty.

FWEIW, I ran tube biampped LCR's for years. I just retired the tube amps due to maintenance costs (re-tube every year). I do notice cleaner high end now with the SS amps and it's probably because my 10w 6V6 based tube tweeter amps were not quite enough power and were clipping. My mids were 70w via KT88's and seemed to do fine. All these amps were Push-Pull Ultralinear topology.

I'm trying all QSC now. I also have some older 1980s vintage Brystons too but they need to be re-capped before I would use them.

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post #5 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 10:11 AM
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AB international amps are great,,ESP the 1000w mono block special editions.

I currently use 3 Ada 2502 amps for my front end. From RS20i into B&W 802D and HTM1D.

Although I will be getting a Datasat RA7300 amp soon as its performance is superb. Somewhat similar in design to the ATI6007 but with better components under the hood.
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post #6 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Interested to know what components are better under the hood compared to the ATI 6007. The SNR on the ATI 6007 seems to be slightly better then the Datasat Amps.

The only other option I am thinking of is 3 separate mono for the LCR setup and carrying on using my ATI for the rest of the speakers. I would imagine 300-400 watts is more then enough for a 100db speakers. Anyting more than that is an over kill even with less sensitive speakers.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #7 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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My subs are all Seaton and now being upgraded to HP+ Series as Master and Slave. Subs are all sorted. So are the speakers as Intend to keep the Danley for a very long time. I have heard a few setups although the triads sounded smoother on the top end I eventually still preferred the sound of the Danley.

The only issues I am currently facing is finding a warmer sounding amps for the Danley as they are extremely transparent and depending on amps used the smoothness is either there or its not.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #8 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 11:21 AM
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How many Seatons do you have and what dimensions are your room?
Thanks!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #9 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 12:52 PM
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Im not sure as to what components are different in the Datasat to the 6007 but Morris said in email that both amps are suitable for very high end installs with the Datasat having slightly better sonics due to the components used.

One thing to bare in mind with the 6007 is that although you can get a rack mount version it is not meant to be housed in a rack with other amps around etc. it gets warm and needs to breath. Whereas the Datasat has fans that kick in during highly demanding draws.

I'm planning on getting one of each. The Datasat for the main 7 channels and the ati for all the heights and voice of god.
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post #10 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 12:56 PM
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If you go for AB amps before the end of the year there is 50% off. So you could pick up a mono 400w standard edition for $1500.

I do however think that you should have a look at the Ada 2502 amps. I think they will have that sonic signature your looking for. They are certainly not a coloured amp but are on the warmer side of neutral whereas the ab amps are very clinical and neutral. Some have said cold when listening to mine but that's not an opinion I share.

A friend of mine recently put his ab monos up against a levinson amp and the abs came incredibly close.
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post #11 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 02:55 PM
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A good power amplifier has no sound at all. It just amplifies what ever it's presented with. If you want a "warm" sound then tube amps are ideal. But keep in mind the reproduction of the signal is not accurate.

Any modern SS class AB or B power amplifier should have no sound signature before clipping these days. The technology is mature. That goes for the cheapest AV receiver to the most expensive esoteric amp.

If a power amp has a "warmer" sound and that would include the Levinson, then it's not a very good amp at all.

ADA seems to make good honest amplifiers in the high price range. What you get for your money is reliability and build quality. Bryston is another top brand. But I'm not so sure about these other "Tiffany" priced amplifiers such as Levinson and the former Halcro. I think you are just paying for hand machined aluminum trim in those units.

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post #12 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Well not tube like but more smoother on the upper end, slightly warmer then clinical or slightly darker in tone. Might just go for mono for front 3 and use the ATI for the rest.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

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post #13 of 53 Old 12-08-2013, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
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4 Subs in total.

Room is 8 Meters by 8 Meters with 4 meter Height.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #14 of 53 Old 12-09-2013, 06:33 AM
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Wow. That's a big room.

Is it closed off and what type pf freq response do you get? Are you getting solid output to below 10 Hz?

I'm asking as I have 5 Seaton Submersives on order and my room is 8.5 Meters X 6 Meters X 3.3 Meters... Maybe I have a bit much??

Thanks!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #15 of 53 Old 12-09-2013, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Wow. That's a big room.

Is it closed off and what type pf freq response do you get? Are you getting solid output to below 10 Hz?

I'm asking as I have 5 Seaton Submersives on order and my room is 8.5 Meters X 6 Meters X 3.3 Meters... Maybe I have a bit much??

Thanks!

No you don't.biggrin.gif

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post #16 of 53 Old 12-09-2013, 12:35 PM
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Amp ideas: FirstWatt, Pass, Parasound. All of these are very smooth up top and heavily biased into class A so you'd be running in Class A most of the time with your speakers.

You may also consider adding a good isolation transformer such as a Torus, I've found they remove grain from the top end and firm up the bass.

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post #17 of 53 Old 12-09-2013, 02:07 PM
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A
You may also consider adding a good isolation transformer such as a Torus, I've found they remove grain from the top end and firm up the bass.

You must have a good deal of HF noise on your power line if the transformer made those improvements. Yes, I agree it is possible especially if the amps use a toroidal power transformer . Toroidal transformers are wide bandwidth and allow line noise to couple through where as conventional EI types filter out HF trash.

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post #18 of 53 Old 12-09-2013, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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That sounds like a bit too much.....No you should be fine but 4 would have been enough.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

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post #19 of 53 Old 12-10-2013, 03:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I noticed you have a Quested setup how do you like the sound of that? I have been contemplating on them and never heard them but finally settled for the Danley. I am still planning to get some and keep both of I have too maybe for a second room setup.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

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post #20 of 53 Old 12-11-2013, 03:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone had any experiences with MC2 Amplifiers, Im trying to look for Pro Audio amplifiers which have higher fidelity, low noise designs. That will suit the Datasat perfectly. I wander if anyone actually uses Class A Designs for home theatres??

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #21 of 53 Old 12-11-2013, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

No you don't.biggrin.gif

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Quote:
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That sounds like a bit too much.....No you should be fine but 4 would have been enough.

Just the contradictory information I needed!! biggrin.gif

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #22 of 53 Old 12-11-2013, 08:29 AM
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Honestly Jeff, Bass headroom is like money in the bank IMO. If you and Mark came to the conclusion that 5 would do the trick then I think all around it would be the right move. How often has Mark ever lead any of us down a bad path ?

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post #23 of 53 Old 12-11-2013, 11:46 AM
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Has anyone had any experiences with MC2 Amplifiers, Im trying to look for Pro Audio amplifiers which have higher fidelity, low noise designs.

Professional amps these days are no better sonically than good consumer amps. What you do get with a pro amp is durability. They can run at 100% power indefinitely whereas most consumer amps would overheat. But that's usually not a problem in a home HT. Pro amps are most always balanced input at +4dbm. If you processor works at pro +4 levels, this is good. If not you may not be able to drive the amp to full power with an RCA based -10 output. You can by conversion boxes but that's another $200-$400.

Aside from audio performance, they sometimes look ugly and have fans inside. But if these are not issues in your system, I agree pro amps are a great choice. They are much cheaper than the high end audiophile grade amps and will perform as good if not better.

FWEIW, I just retired my LCR bi-ampped tube system for a stack of QSC amps. They employ a switching power supply (not the same as class D) and switching regulators have not historically been good in power amps. EMI/RFI issues and the power supply is slow to respond to transients. But QSC says they have this solved so I'm trying it out.

If you want a good solid pro power amp look towards Bryston. These are fanless good looking tanks that are found in many recording studios, scoring stages, and dub theaters. Note that in many Bryston models the consumer version is the exact same core amplifier circuitry as the pro units. The difference is a little better styling for the consumer stuff that is not rack mounted and they make also have -10 RCA input options.

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post #24 of 53 Old 12-11-2013, 07:26 PM
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If you want pro amps (not sure why you would to be honest since you hardly need any power at all with those sensitive speakers) look at Lab.Gruppen and PowerSoft.

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post #25 of 53 Old 12-13-2013, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

AB international amps are great,,ESP the 1000w mono block special editions.

I currently use 3 Ada 2502 amps for my front end. From RS20i into B&W 802D and HTM1D.

Although I will be getting a Datasat RA7300 amp soon as its performance is superb. Somewhat similar in design to the ATI6007 but with better components under the hood.

Which would you say is a better amp overall? The ADA vs the AB International Amps? I am seriously considering either one and also looking into Crown.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #26 of 53 Old 12-13-2013, 06:22 AM
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They both have really good points to the amps.

The ab amps have an incredibly low noise floor. Pretty dead silent. But they are perhaps airing on the side of clinical and perhaps slightly cold.

The Ada amps have half the wattage my ab amps had but have far more current available. For a 2 channel 250w into 8 ohm amp these 2502s can draw upto 1500w. Here in the Uk they are impossible to clip as one can not draw enough current from the mains.

I prefer the sound of the Ada amps as they have a richer, warmer sound. But not tube warm. Not coloured. Just richer. These I think will suite your system best.

I guess your in the states?
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post #27 of 53 Old 12-13-2013, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I am also from the UK, but now living in Indonesia.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

2 Channel System: Philharmonics 3, GD Audio Master 2 Mono Blocks, GD Audio Master 1 Pre-Amp. Wireworld Eclipse Gold 5 Silver XLR, Clear Day...
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post #28 of 53 Old 12-13-2013, 01:51 PM
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One of the best sounding solid state amps IMO is the Electrocompaniet. Very very low distortion, very natural mids , clean highs and deep bass. You could get the 180 watt mono blocks for those speakers.

I have been using the Nemo's for over 8 years and they have been rock solid.." fingers crossed"

They are better sounding than the Bryston and the Levinson as I have had both (more refined).

And they are from Norway.
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post #29 of 53 Old 12-15-2013, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Been reading the Electrocompaniet amplifier line has some quality control issues specially on Audiogon Forum.

Home Theatre: Onkyo PR SC 5509, ATI 3007 Danley SH50, Danley SH69, Danley SH100 (Rear), Seaton Subwoofer X 2, Custom Made Acoustic Panels and Bass Traps.

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post #30 of 53 Old 12-15-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassfeen View Post

Been reading the Electrocompaniet amplifier line has some quality control issues specially on Audiogon Forum.

That is typical of many esoteric designs. Reliability and engineering for parts tolerances is another layer often omitted in these small shops. If you want bullet proof reliability commercial studio and theater power amps are a wise choice.

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