ADA Cinema Rapture Vs. Others - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 12-17-2013, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi
I had a Pioneer Susano SC-09TX, and i am in the market for a new receiver with more quality and punch.
I am looking at the ADA Cinema Rapture, looks an amazing machine.
Anyone heard it?

Thinking on connecting it to RBH Reference Series, will it be a good marriage?

I had Klipsch Reference, but i need something with more detail
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post #2 of 24 Old 12-18-2013, 01:42 AM
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I installed one at the beginning of the year and I was very impressed, it sounds pretty identical to a suite 7.1 very open and transparent with plenty of power from the on board amplification, so providing the room is not to big I think it's a great choice and one of the best integrated amps on the market.
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post #3 of 24 Old 12-18-2013, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Tank you for sharing your experience.
This is to integrate in a living room where i had a Pioneer Susano. My option to sell to Susano and look for something like this has to do with the fact that i wanted more power and detail, despite the fact that it is one of the best AVR's.

I also had Klipsch Reference 5.1

Now i want to put an ADA Rapture, and RBH Speakers: RBH SX-8300R (Front Speakers); SX-6100C/R (center); SX-6300R (Back) and SVS PB-13 Ultra Subwoofer.

The space is not big, it's around 15 Square meters.

Do you think my sound quality will improve?
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post #4 of 24 Old 12-18-2013, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Since RBH Speakers work at 4ohms, and this AVR gives 300watts per channel at 4 ohms, i believe it will give alot of power.
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-18-2013, 06:35 AM
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Yes I would say it would be a step up in performance, I know the guys at Genesis did a direct comparison with the pioneer and a suite 7.1 a few years ago at TLC and the ADA was quite a big improvement. The one I installed was in a room about the same size with a sub sat system and would run at reference no problem, plus it was a massive step up in performance over the Denon it replaced without any of the room EQ set in the Rapture.
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-18-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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To be honnest i think Denon receivers are not that great.
Their best receiver was AVC-A1HDA, discontinued, however for Cinema ADA or Datasat have the correct Cinema Sound, not Denon or Pioneer...
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post #7 of 24 Old 12-18-2013, 03:22 PM
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I agree with ref theater, this receiver should rock your world. There is no other receiver I think can touch the ada surround processing for movies and music.
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post #8 of 24 Old 12-19-2013, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I agree with ref theater, this receiver should rock your world. There is no other receiver I think can touch the ada surround processing for movies and music.

While the ADA receiver may very well be a very competitive hardware package, and indeed the receiver to beat at its pricepoint, I don't think there is any particular "ADA surround processing" going on contributing to that. From what I gather it just implements standard MCH decoding and post processing features.
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post #9 of 24 Old 12-19-2013, 04:19 AM
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Well, not to be boastful but in the Moscow Installation I have both a cinema reference and suite 7.1 as a backup. When the cinema reference blew a fuse and we inserted the suite 7.1 on the "overkill quested system" is when I played the Jeff Beck Blu ray and I have never heard better surround sound music video, ever. So the little 7.1 more than passed muster. Try that with an Onkyo.
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-19-2013, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Well, not to be boastful but in the Moscow Installation I have both a cinema reference and suite 7.1 as a backup. When the cinema reference blew a fuse and we inserted the suite 7.1 on the "overkill quested system" is when I played the Jeff Beck Blu ray and I have never heard better surround sound music video, ever. So the little 7.1 more than passed muster. Try that with an Onkyo.

No doubt. Better DACs, better powersuply, better digital processing (jitter?), but not better "surround sound processing" per se. May be this is just semantics.

For reference, I owned an ADA Mach IV for 48 hours. Ran it analog into my Trinnov (same as ADA into TEQ). On SACD running my Marantz UD9004 analog into Trinnov trounced the ADA, on Blu Ray it was a close call. Running digital (modded Oppo) into Trinnov then bested Marantz. Bottom line, it is all about the end to end signal path. Nonetheless, the ADA is probably a killer value package.
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post #11 of 24 Old 12-19-2013, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Tanks for the updates guys.
Guess ADA should be amazing, however not many people are into it, because those Denon, Pioneer and other receivers come with all those video boards and every gadget the market has.
At the end that's crap, and what maters is the sound.
Picture if we have some old sources a Lumagen or DVDO makes a much better job.
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post #12 of 24 Old 12-20-2013, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by edorr View Post

No doubt. Better DACs, better powersuply, better digital processing (jitter?), but not better "surround sound processing" ....

Why not better surround processing?
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post #13 of 24 Old 12-20-2013, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by RefTheater View Post

Why not better surround processing?

May be semantics. If you define "Surround processing" as "decoding codec's used in surround sound" and "surround sound post processing", these is all completely standard and ADA does exactly the same as any other SSP. There is no differentiation there.

If you define surround sound processing broadly as the entire chain of processing a multi channel signal (both the analog and digital domain), obviously the better SSP does better "surround sound processing" by definition.
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post #14 of 24 Old 12-21-2013, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think ADA has top notch processing and power. There are no recievers in the market capable of reaching this level of quality.
Forget Denon, Pioneer and all of that. Compared to ADA they are toys.

Even some Pre/Pros i believe they don't beat the Rapture.
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post #15 of 24 Old 12-22-2013, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

May be semantics. If you define "Surround processing" as "decoding codec's used in surround sound" and "surround sound post processing", these is all completely standard and ADA does exactly the same as any other SSP. There is no differentiation there.

If you define surround sound processing broadly as the entire chain of processing a multi channel signal (both the analog and digital domain), obviously the better SSP does better "surround sound processing" by definition.

Well we can agree on this one!

All the standard surround algorithms are rigidly defined and decoders either use a licensed chip decoder or if done in software, they apply the algorithms licensed by the owner, eg, Dolby, DTS. So the algorithm or chip set ADA uses is the same code wise as Denon or Pioneer for example. Additionally these products prototypes are all tested and certified by the algorithm owner for compliance. And they should be. Don't you want the decoding to be an exact as possible inverse to the encoding done in the studio?

Now there are differences in quality. Not so much on the digital aside as bits are bits for the most part, but higher end units do have better analog sections which can be quite audible compared to the low end such as an HTIB from Costco.

So bottom line there is not really not that much difference between say and ADA or Theta and a "good" Japanese AV receiver like that top of the line Marantz when running the native decoder. So what is the benefit of a high end processor?

I can't speak for Theta or ADA but in my case I still run a Lexicon MC8. It's bypassed for Bluray as I simply use the decoder in the BRD player. But for older stuff like my 700 title DVHS* library, the Lexicon has many enhancement modes to plain old AC3 5.1. "Logic 7" is still renowned even after 15 years. The problem for most people is that since the older processors do not support HDMI or any of the advanced codecs, they have to be replaced. But for "trick" surround modes the older high end processors have a lot more options than the current offerings.

In my case I am an avid electronics DIYer so I have my gear modified and supplemented to give me the advanced codecs yet still use the legacy processor.

*Of course this library has been transferred to a media server today. I hardly run DVHS any more.

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post #16 of 24 Old 12-22-2013, 11:09 AM
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And the ada has enhancement modes that sound good without re-verb, like music mode and others. I have used all the brands except theta, to me the best sound still are the datsat and the ada's.
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post #17 of 24 Old 12-22-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

And the ada has enhancement modes that sound good without re-verb, like music mode and others. I have used all the brands except theta, to me the best sound still are the datsat and the ada's.

OK then that's a plus for ADA. But for straight Dolby TrueHD as an example it should not be much if any different than the top of the line Marantz. Now if you start getting into how they implement tone controls, there could be significant differences. And of course room correction is an open field because there are no true standards there as to what is right.

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post #18 of 24 Old 12-22-2013, 11:35 AM
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I dunno the denon in my moon helene sucked big time with Mark Levinson amps and dynaudio confidence 4's, same for optoma and marantz . These ada units are voice by Langella who has got a good ear, he tweaks them and takes care in the component selection.

There are significant differences for sure. I have gone thru several of these high end processors. Now next is dolby atmos let's see how that one fares.
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post #19 of 24 Old 12-25-2013, 07:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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For example, considering the ADA CInema Rapture, Denon AVC-A1HD, Pioneer SC-LX90, i think the only thing is that the speakers connection on the Denon and Pioneer are a little better, ADA looks like more "plastic", but in real life maybe it's different.
But the connections that we generally use to connect most receivers like that Denon or Pioneer we cannot use then on the ADA right?
I think the speaker cables must have a thinner connection.

However while those go up to 200watts per channel, the ADA runs up to 300watts with a 4 ohms speaker, and that's a blast.



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post #20 of 24 Old 12-25-2013, 08:10 AM
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Aren't the Denon and Yamaha pieces 5 or 6 years old? If so, forget it.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #21 of 24 Old 12-25-2013, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Aren't the Denon and Yamaha pieces 5 or 6 years old? If so, forget it.

No doubt ADA is different, and i mena superior. However my question is about speaker connectivity.
Does the Rapture comes with any room correction setup?
Richard from ADA says the unit doesn't have the "tuner"...what does he means with that?
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post #22 of 24 Old 12-25-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If i need for example to connect a laserdisc player, HD-DVD and all that old stuff to the rapture i guess the best to do is to connect the laserdisc to the "optical" and thre HD-DVD to the HDMI of course.
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post #23 of 24 Old 12-25-2013, 11:31 AM
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If i need for example to connect a laserdisc player, HD-DVD and all that old stuff to the rapture i guess the best to do is to connect the laserdisc to the "optical" and thre HD-DVD to the HDMI of course.

LaserDisk never went beyond Dolby digital and DTS and those discs are very rare as well so the optical or coaxial digital audio connection is just fine.

The lack of a tuner just means you can't get AM and FM radio with the ADA unit. If you must you can plug in a tuner to one of the analog inputs. ADA also makes some good AM/FM tuners with Sirrius and HD radio capabilities.

When you get up into this class of components, separates are the norm. Always has been. Even in the 1950s high end stereo gear always had seperate power amps and preamps. Integrated amplifiers and receivers were more "mif fi". The Denon and Yamaha units are "all in one" for people that don't want all that external complexity or wiring issues.

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post #24 of 24 Old 12-26-2013, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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To connect with the ADA Cinema Rapture i am considering 2 options:

RBH:

- RBH SX-8300/R (Fronts); SX-6300/R (Back Surrounds); SX-6100C/R (Center) + 2 SVS PB-13 Ultra Subs. These speakers are 4 ohms, so they will provide more power.

- Klipsch RF-7II (Fronts); RC-64II (Center); RF-82II (Back) + 2 SVS PB-13 Ultra.


Both sets have a different price of curse, RBH is more expensive, but that doesn't count.
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