Lexicon's new MC-14, what's the scoop, a re-badged Bryston? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 90 Old 09-01-2014, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter View Post
The HD option will add a decent amount. You cannot just add the upcharge between the two and then discount that. The non-HD versions are not the latest versions and receive a heavy discount because of that. I don't remember the street price for unblanced 12HD w/EQ, sorry.

Thanks


I see on eBay and Audiogon the older platform, regardless of version seems to top out at around $2000 for asking prices, that would be for a fully equipped MC-12BEQ v5.25 but I don't even think they are actually selling at these prices because I've noticed they linger a long time. With the MC-12HDB having been lowered to a MSRP of $7,999 quite a while ago, perhaps in 2011 taking 75% off that doesn't seem unrealistic given the age which would put the price at the $2,000 range. I don't suspect asking prices of 50% off would be to realistic at this point given the age/feature set of the platform. I can't remember how much the EQ added to the price though and whether that $7,999 MSRP was the EQ version or not. I think the EQ may have been an additional $2k to $4k on it's own.

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post #32 of 90 Old 09-02-2014, 09:24 PM
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Seeing this thread was like stumbling across an obituary for a dear friend.
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post #33 of 90 Old 09-11-2014, 07:45 AM
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I have the latest MC-12 balanced with all the bells and whistles. Have the mike kit too. Just don't know if it's worth parting with it at these prices or keeping it as a spare should my Bryston have an issue or get sent away for an upgrade to the USB input, etc.

So disappointed with Lexicon. They really turned into a pile of crap. To rebadge a product made by another should be a massive embarrassment for them.

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post #34 of 90 Old 09-11-2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by BigHat View Post
I have the latest MC-12 balanced with all the bells and whistles. Have the mike kit too. Just don't know if it's worth parting with it at these prices or keeping it as a spare should my Bryston have an issue or get sent away for an upgrade to the USB input, etc.

So disappointed with Lexicon. They really turned into a pile of crap. To rebadge a product made by another should be a massive embarrassment for them.
They were already mortally embarrassed / wounded with the Lexicon... err, Oppo.. Blu Ray trick!

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post #35 of 90 Old 09-11-2014, 10:22 AM
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The Lexicon 4/8/12 is certainly ancient gear but aside from the HDMI issues, I still think LOGIC7 is still one of the best upmixers for legacy stereo material.

I am curious to hear what others think as well as what facilities are found on the newer high end processors that could replace LOGIC7. The lack of such features on the ADA was a turn off for me.

It could be personal viewing taste as well. I watch older movie material and have a large satellite captured DVHS library ripped to disk. People who generally only watch current material on BluRay may not need much in the way of advanced upmixing.

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post #36 of 90 Old 09-13-2014, 10:40 PM
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The Lexicon 4/8/12 is certainly ancient gear but aside from the HDMI issues, I still think LOGIC7 is still one of the best upmixers for legacy stereo material.
Agreed.

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I am curious to hear what others think as well as what facilities are found on the newer high end processors that could replace LOGIC7.
I use (and personally prefer) Pro Logic IIx, particularly as it is smoother than Logic7 when quiet dialog is present over background audio. Mostly I'm using it for 2-ch music, where it works well for my taste.

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The lack of such features on the ADA was a turn off for me.
ADA processors have Stereo Enhance, Mono Enhance, and PLIIx modes. These may not be a suitable replacement for Logic7 for you, but it certainly is not lacking in such features.

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post #37 of 90 Old 09-23-2014, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a question for any of you MC-12HD owners. What version of HDMI does it have and will it pass 3D and/or 4k?

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post #38 of 90 Old 09-23-2014, 12:12 PM
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I have a question for any of you MC-12HD owners. What version of HDMI does it have and will it pass 3D and/or 4k?
You really think HDMI from 2006 is going to pass 3D and/or 4k?

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post #39 of 90 Old 09-23-2014, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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So I take it that's a no I was just thinking because neither of the 2 existed in 2006 the Lexicon wouldn't understand what they were and it would just pass on thru but I take it in order to accomplish that it has to be designed to do it. What version of HDMI is the Lexicon, is it 1.1, 1.2 or 1.2a? I doubt it's 1.3. I need to know if it can accept/support DVD-Audio and SACD which I understand were implemented in 1.1 and 1.2 respectively.

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post #40 of 90 Old 09-23-2014, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Also what happens in the MC-12 (any flavor) when a 192/24 signal is input via the AES/EBU input? Is there no output, is it down sampled to 96/24 or is there noise? I'm thinking about purchasing some digital albums and one of the resolutions is 192/24 but if my MC-12 can't do anything with it I'll just grab the 96/24 option.

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post #41 of 90 Old 09-23-2014, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post
Also what happens in the MC-12 (any flavor) when a 192/24 signal is input via the AES/EBU input? Is there no output, is it down sampled to 96/24 or is there noise? I'm thinking about purchasing some digital albums and one of the resolutions is 192/24 but if my MC-12 can't do anything with it I'll just grab the 96/24 option.
I'm fairly sure the MC4/8/12 is limited to 96/24. And I don't know if the internal SRC can even take 192k.

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post #42 of 90 Old 09-23-2014, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks


Yeah internally the MC-12 is 96/24. The DACS are 192 though but I just don't know what happens when a 192 signal comes in because it's obviously not going to remain 192.

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post #43 of 90 Old 09-25-2014, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I received word from Lexicon that the HDMI version of the MC-12HD is 1.1

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post #44 of 90 Old 09-25-2014, 02:15 PM
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There is no reason to use the HDMI inputs on the MC-12HD for anything other than inputing HD audio, IMO. Anyway, "ancient" as they may be, the MC-4,8, and 12 Lexicons still offer better sound than 99% of what's out there new now, at least IMO. As for the bastard MC-14, maybe it's just a fill-the-gap model while Lexicon engineers continue working on a SOTA new model. Let us hope so, anyway.

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post #45 of 90 Old 09-25-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod#S View Post

I guess the big question is, is this a rebadged Bryston SP3, just like JBL is doing? I see no mention of Logic 7 let alone Quantum Logic and it appears to be limited to 7.1. Definitely not cutting edge stuff like we would expect of the Lexicon of years past.
If they could have used Lexicon processing with Bryston hardware, it would have been a real winner. The lost here is not the hardware because Bryston is great on the hardware side.

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post #46 of 90 Old 09-26-2014, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Very true.

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post #47 of 90 Old 09-27-2014, 11:35 AM
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I feel like i'm in a time warp in this thread. I think I owned a 12B at least 10 years ago - it was a nice piece, good at the time but nothing remarkable. I sold it because it was fizzy at the tip top. - a think it is only relevant in terms of history.

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post #48 of 90 Old 09-27-2014, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I've never found the top end anything but incredibly clear. Perhaps there was a small defect in yours or what you were hearing was being introduced by something else in the signal path.


Eh, depending on what a person needs in their setup, forget about what a person may want it can do a great job with what it has to work with so in that sense it's not entirely a historical piece. If all someone needs is what it does then that's all that matters. I have had mine since January 2014 and the only issue I have had was the power switch started to burn out which was easily replaced so if nothing else it was/is an incredibly reliable product, very well built.

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post #49 of 90 Old 09-27-2014, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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There is no reason to use the HDMI inputs on the MC-12HD for anything other than inputing HD audio, IMO. ...

HD audio from Blu-ray, yes providing you get the player to decode I agree but since it's HDMI 1.1 you can stay digital with a DVD-Audio signal via HDMI as well if you want. Unfortunately that's it I'm afraid for hi res over HDMI because in order to send SACD it would have to be HDMI 1.2 so SACD needs to be input via the analog inputs.


Another plus for the HDMI inputs is video switching. It's convenient to have if you have more HDMI sources than inputs on your tv. I just reached that limit on my tv and because I don't have the HD version I had to purchase a HDMI switcher.


I suppose if I upgraded to the MC-14 or Bryston SP-3 I would be in the clear because it has 8 HDMI inputs plus 2 outputs which is nice as that would allow me to use 2 separately calibrated inputs on my tv. But there is just to many things those units can't do in my opinion to warrant spending $10k on.

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post #50 of 90 Old 09-27-2014, 09:37 PM
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I've never found the top end anything but incredibly clear.
Same here. Top end has the clean, neutral sound of studio/pro gear.
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Unfortunately that's it I'm afraid for hi res over HDMI because in order to send SACD it would have to be HDMI 1.2 so SACD needs to be input via the analog inputs.
Even if you could send it SACD directly, how do you know if the DACs would have been able to convert DSD to analogue? Since you can't do anything with DSD, you'd have to convert it to PCM for bass management, room correction, surround processing, etc. In which case, you can convert to PCM in the disc player. This way you can use HDMI instead of analogue (and avoid unnecessary A/D and D/A steps).

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post #51 of 90 Old 09-28-2014, 07:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Even if you could send it SACD directly, how do you know if the DACs would have been able to convert DSD to analogue? Since you can't do anything with DSD, you'd have to convert it to PCM for bass management, room correction, surround processing, etc. In which case, you can convert to PCM in the disc player. This way you can use HDMI instead of analogue (and avoid unnecessary A/D and D/A steps).

Very good point.

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post #52 of 90 Old 09-28-2014, 09:22 AM
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HD audio from Blu-ray, yes providing you get the player to decode I agree but since it's HDMI 1.1 you can stay digital with a DVD-Audio signal via HDMI as well if you want. Unfortunately that's it I'm afraid for hi res over HDMI because in order to send SACD it would have to be HDMI 1.2 so SACD needs to be input via the analog inputs.


Another plus for the HDMI inputs is video switching. It's convenient to have if you have more HDMI sources than inputs on your tv. I just reached that limit on my tv and because I don't have the HD version I had to purchase a HDMI switcher.


I suppose if I upgraded to the MC-14 or Bryston SP-3 I would be in the clear because it has 8 HDMI inputs plus 2 outputs which is nice as that would allow me to use 2 separately calibrated inputs on my tv. But there is just to many things those units can't do in my opinion to warrant spending $10k on.

I don't see where "upgrading" to the MC-14 or SP-3 is of any benefit other than being able to switch HDMI 1.2 or higher, something you can do with a $40 HDMI switcher from Monoprice. Meanwhile you lose something far more beneficial to a music lover - logic 7 processing, not to mention all the other audio parameters available in the older Lexicons that I doubt if are available in the Bryston. And, having owned both a Bryston (SP-1) pre and the Lexicon, I found the 2 ch bypass in the Lexicon/JBL models superior to Bryston, although Bryston is very good and would be my second choice for 2 ch listening with a surround processor.

I am not a user of SACD, but if you are then I think you are better served adding a Benchmark DAC-2 to your system and using it for your SACD digital source (or analog if you prefer) as it will process DSD from SACD. IMO Benchmark DACs are unequaled as is their preamp section. The DAC-2 has a HT bypass for the L-R output from your surround processor which, IMO, should be a legacy Lexicon or JBL Synthesis MC-4 or higher but not the MC-14. The Benchmark plus a used or refurb MC-12 will cost you a fraction of the MC-14 or SDP-45 and sound better to boot (IMO), with a Monoprice HDMI switcher handling your video if necessary.

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post #53 of 90 Old 09-28-2014, 05:30 PM
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I don't see where "upgrading" to the MC-14 or SP-3 is of any benefit other than being able to switch HDMI 1.2 or higher, something you can do with a $40 HDMI switcher from Monoprice. Meanwhile you lose something far more beneficial to a music lover - logic 7 processing, not to mention all the other audio parameters available in the older Lexicons that I doubt if are available in the Bryston. And, having owned both a Bryston (SP-1) pre and the Lexicon, I found the 2 ch bypass in the Lexicon/JBL models superior to Bryston, although Bryston is very good and would be my second choice for 2 ch listening with a surround processor.

I am not a user of SACD, but if you are then I think you are better served adding a Benchmark DAC-2 to your system and using it for your SACD digital source (or analog if you prefer) as it will process DSD from SACD. IMO Benchmark DACs are unequaled as is their preamp section. The DAC-2 has a HT bypass for the L-R output from your surround processor which, IMO, should be a legacy Lexicon or JBL Synthesis MC-4 or higher but not the MC-14. The Benchmark plus a used or refurb MC-12 will cost you a fraction of the MC-14 or SDP-45 and sound better to boot (IMO), with a Monoprice HDMI switcher handling your video if necessary.
Dsmith-


What are you using to EQ your sub(s)? Does your Lex have the roomEQ on-board?

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post #54 of 90 Old 09-28-2014, 07:26 PM
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Dsmith-


What are you using to EQ your sub(s)? Does your Lex have the roomEQ on-board?
No, I don't use EQ in any form. My sub is crossed over at 80 Hz and located in my room where it sounds most natural to my ears. I'm good with that for now, but if you feel you need EQ then I would look for a MC-12/HD with that feature, or have a dealer add it. But you might want to try doing without; you might be surprised what you can accomplish with the old fashioned "listen" method. Or, some subs now come with EQ built-in. I recommend SVS subs, though I have not tried their EQ; mine is an older model.

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post #55 of 90 Old 10-28-2014, 01:10 PM
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Full agreement that the MC14 is a huge step down. I have an MC12HDEQ that you would have to pry out of my dead hands. The old spec HDMI is not an issue for audio and with ability to specify a video out only on one of the two outputs from an OPPO Blu-ray player plus the additional HDMI inputs on the new 105D it can handle the video switching and processing. Using LPCM audio out from the OPPO and letting it handle the de-coding for the new HD codecs the MC12 offers everything I want and more. I have had only one problem with MC12, the SMPS failed three months out of warranty but Lexicon stepped up and covered the repair plus other upgrades at no cost to me apart from shipping.

Only downside is that I have to downgrade the software to V1.25 to run the EQ. I just built several configuration files for the possible configurations/sub-woofer options and saved them using the configuration tool. I can load those configurations when running the V2.0 software for the Dolby and DTS HD encoded audio.

For reference my unit is approaching 4 years old and the MRRSP in Canada for the MC12HDEQ plus four microphones was $24,000. Yeah we get ripped-off up here constantly. I was able to purchase through a friend in the business at wholesale pricing.

I do hope a new model that takes the SOTA path is forthcoming. No MC14 for me.
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post #56 of 90 Old 10-28-2014, 02:10 PM
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Lexicon Owners-

anyone know if the company will be releasing a new disc spinner soon?
It has been some time since the RT-20
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post #57 of 90 Old 10-29-2014, 08:38 AM
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I would not be surprised if Harman made a rebadged Storm Audio processor at some point. They have digital outputs so this actually makes it possible to go digital all the way from the processor to the amplifiers. The SDEC DSP supports digital input and the SDEC and their new amplifiers can be connected with BLU-Link (ethernet cable). This is, in my opinion, a really really nice solution!

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post #58 of 90 Old 12-17-2014, 03:31 PM
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Hi
Ok, whats the final word is it a rebadged Bryston, or did Lexicon add some features, or anything else?

Rob
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post #59 of 90 Old 12-18-2014, 05:17 AM
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There are two good things I see about Lexicon at this point...

1. The brand itself is dead for HT SSPs
2. If, somehow, they release something, I will make sure I laugh out loud at the first buyer!!

This whole thread reminds me of the HD DVD stalwarts who wouldn't accept the format was dead after they Toshiba announced such.

I've owned a Lexicon SSP and there was nothing special about its sound or modes (MC-12B). I don't get the play here...

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post #60 of 90 Old 12-18-2014, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Hi
Ok, whats the final word is it a rebadged Bryston, or did Lexicon add some features, or anything else?

Rob
It's a straight up Bryston. If you like the limited feature set you are a bit better off going with the actual Bryston in my opinion because it's a bit cheaper and it might have a longer warranty but I'm not sure. I think the Bryston digital product warranty is 5 years. Also if any updates ever make their way to the Bryston it's those units that will see them first and there wouldn't even be a guarantee that they would be done with the Lexicon.

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