The Unofficial Bruzonsky Aerial & JL Audio Upgraditis Thread! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 146 Old 01-27-2014, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Tomorrow my five new Aerial Acoustics 7ts (nero black metallic Ferrari like color) arrive. Two JL Fathom f212-gloass (dual 12' woofers per each dubwoofer) arrive Friday. We will be moving the screen up about 7" on the front wall, so that the Aerial 7t as center speaker will
be beneath the screen!

Tomorrow we are taking down and packing my four Aerial 9s, one Aerial CC5 center speaker, CC5 Sound Anchors extended adjustable stand, and three Aerial subwoofers which are being sold (look for ad on Audiogon, Audio Video Choices in Phoenix will be listing them. If I recall you are young and strong. HA!

We will bring the Aerial 7s into the room and position them hopefully Wed or Thursday. And the new JL Audio subs either Friday or Saturday. Then the typical speaker positioning, adjusting the Michael Green Pressure Zone Controllers (probably won't require much adjustment, as the prior speakers are also Aerial with similar wide dispersion), sound level, etc. Then when installs subs will use JL Audio's custom EQ/software.

Of course one of these days soon my CB3 HD will be upgraded to the CB4 and then I'll have Dirac Live!

Very exciting!@@@
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post #2 of 146 Old 01-27-2014, 03:56 PM
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Sounds like you'll be in for some audio nirvana.

I'm really wanting to try out the aerial 9s at somepoint as I really fancy the aerial system 1 theatre wall. I'm not sure if the system 1 would be an upgrade or sidestep from the B&W 802d and HTM1D centre.

So, are the 7ts an upgrade over the model 9s?
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post #3 of 146 Old 01-28-2014, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Turns out my Aerial 7ts will be here by 3 PM today! the JL Audio subwoofers will be here by 4 PM Friday!!

Frankly, I'm already in audio nirvana. My current Aerial 9s (4), CC5 and SW12s (3) sound phenomenal.
But I anticipate the Aerial 7ts (5, including for center channel) and JL Audio Fantom f212-gloss subwoofers (2)
will be nirvana plus plus!

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post #4 of 146 Old 01-28-2014, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Aerial 7ts are here. We're still takin' down, moving and packing the old gear. Have front left and right 7ts in room already. A much smaller footprint that the Aerial 9, perhaps like the 8 after losing a lot of weight! Can't wait to hear them - don't know if will get to today. Lot of stuff to do. Still also need to move screen up a bit so I can use a 7t as center channel!

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post #5 of 146 Old 01-28-2014, 02:29 PM
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THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES!!!!!

Get on it, Steve!

smile.gif

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post #6 of 146 Old 01-28-2014, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES!!!!!

Get on it, Steve!

smile.gif

Dan

Sort of busy, just getting screen 7" higher so Aerial 7t will be my center speaker

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post #7 of 146 Old 01-28-2014, 05:51 PM
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Excuses....excuses.....

Just be safe, that's not exactly light stuff you're playing around with- it's not like 7 big Wilsons, but not Bose either.

Don't need a back thrown...

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post #8 of 146 Old 01-28-2014, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I worked 5:30 AM to 9 PM doing "lighter" stuff, avoiding bending and stooping (bad hip), avoiding much lifting, my friend and custom installer Viccarone, Emersive Audio Video, loaded and packed my four Aerial 9s, one Aerial CC5, and three Aerial SW12 subwoofers; and unloaded and unpacked and set in place my five Aerial 7ts. And then we adjusted the Sim2 C3X 1080 3 chip DLP projector and
anamorphic lens for the screen that Vic moved up 7", so that I can use an Aerial 7t for the center channel!

The two JL Audio Fantom f212-glossy subwoofers arrive Friday.

Tomorrow I will finish off connecting everything and get it all running!

Within the next few days, in time for the "super" bowl, I will post some "super" pictures!!!@@@

The 7ts are so much smaller than the 9s, yet reportedly are an overall nice improvement sonically over the 9s. We will see (I mean hear)!

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post #9 of 146 Old 01-28-2014, 11:48 PM
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Steve, I can see , and hear this new system in my mind. Enjoy, Norm
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post #10 of 146 Old 01-29-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Got all five 7ts up and runnin'. YEA!

Playing continuos jazz for now to burn in speaker drivers.

Al Jarrau multi-channel SACD over HDMI sounds - awful good for speakers just out of the box. I can already hear the new tweeter that Michael Kelly is using for his new "T" series. Very nice indeed.
Sounds really nice already. Having a 7t for t he center channel doesn't hurt at all.

More later. Do have other stuff have to do today! Pictures later, too.

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post #11 of 146 Old 01-29-2014, 10:22 AM
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Congrats Steve. You had a great system before and it's obviously staying great smile.gif

So why 2 F212's and not say 2 Gothams? Price perhaps? biggrin.gif

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post #12 of 146 Old 01-29-2014, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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12. Inch woofers - 2 per each sub - are plenty of punch for my theater room! and the 12 inchers will be very musical as we'll!

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post #13 of 146 Old 01-29-2014, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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On Friday those "Puny" two JL Audio dual 12" woofer subwoofers will be here. I'll snap some photos and post them over the weekend.biggrin.gif:cool:eek.gif

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post #14 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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photo.JPG 114k .JPG file Vic, who did the brunt of the heavy labor and moved the screen up 7", as Emersive Audio Video has a work van. He only wishes though that it was the one in the following picture:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg photo.JPG (113.6 KB, 152 views)

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post #15 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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OK. Had to be funny. An attorney I know missed our seminar last week because he is a failed guitar player and goes to a musician's annual meet of some sort, where he took a picture of the van in the above post!!

The Aeial 7s continue to burn-in and sound wonderful. Imaging like the best mini-monitors, Bass, midrange and treble to die for! Considerable improvement over the 9s, which are no slouch. Though only 2.5" less tall than the 9s, the 7ts are also not as wide, weight about 25 pounds each less than a 9, but the 7ts footprint seems like 35-40% of a 9. A remarkable achievement by Michael Kelly and David Marshal of Aerial Acoustics. They indeed are two maestros of high end audio. And give credit to Theatermax/Craig Shumer, who told me that his experience with customers having 7ts was that they were a significant upgrde from the 9s. Craig did not exaggerate! I never could have guesses that such a "smaller", daintier speaker could outshine the 9s, including on bass. With the 7ts, I can viscerally feel the bass considerably more than with the 9s, despite that the 7t only has 2 bass drivers whereas the 9 has four bass drivers! The 7ts appear to be nearly impervious to placement concerns, even not far from a wall they sound great! Playing "Jazzin' Surround" multichannel SACD demo from Telarc-HeadsUp, I have never ever heard it sound so outstanding, with vibrancy, clarity, detail and dancing (that's right, my dancing) everywhere between all of the five 7ts and outside them should I dare to venture so far away! I have on hard drive a CD Steely Dan Aja rip and a Japan SNH SACD Aja rip. Never liked the SACD rip, highs sound so muted, the LP rip redbook seemed better. Not anymore. Now I can hear the background soft treble on Aja just as it is, and the LP rip now sounds veiled in comparison to the SACD.
And "Jazzin Surround" previously never sounded quite right, ever since I left behind my CB3 (non-HD) and Theta Compli (prior to blu ray, multi-channel analog SACD output) and also improved my front end vs rear by adding a Gen VIII DAC and Theta Citadel 1.5 amps for front left and right channels. Now as stated above "Jaxzin' Surround" sounds outstanding throughout the entire surround field!
The Aerial 7ts are a real keeper - and I am keepin' them. HA!

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post #16 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to Dave Thezak who is coming over tomorrow afternoon when my JL Audio subs arrive to help us move the two 220 pound mammoth weights into place in my home theater room!

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post #17 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

OK. Had to be funny. An attorney I know missed our seminar last week because he is a failed guitar player and goes to a musician's annual meet of some sort, where he took a picture of the van in the above post!!

The Aeial 7s continue to burn-in and sound wonderful. Imaging like the best mini-monitors, Bass, midrange and treble to die for! Considerable improvement over the 9s, which are no slouch. Though only 2.5" less tall than the 9s, the 7ts are also not as wide, weight about 25 pounds each less than a 9, but the 7ts footprint seems like 35-40% of a 9. A remarkable achievement by Michael Kelly and David Marshal of Aerial Acoustics. They indeed are two maestros of high end audio. And give credit to Theatermax/Craig Shumer, who told me that his experience with customers having 7ts was that they were a significant upgrde from the 9s. Craig did not exaggerate! I never could have guesses that such a "smaller", daintier speaker could outshine the 9s, including on bass. With the 7ts, I can viscerally feel the bass considerably more than with the 9s, despite that the 7t only has 2 bass drivers whereas the 9 has four bass drivers! The 7ts appear to be nearly impervious to placement concerns, even not far from a wall they sound great! Playing "Jazzin' Surround" multichannel SACD demo from Telarc-HeadsUp, I have never ever heard it sound so outstanding, with vibrancy, clarity, detail and dancing (that's right, my dancing) everywhere between all of the five 7ts and outside them should I dare to venture so far away! I have on hard drive a CD Steely Dan Aja rip and a Japan SNH SACD Aja rip. Never liked the SACD rip, highs sound so muted, the LP rip redbook seemed better. Not anymore. Now I can hear the background soft treble on Aja just as it is, and the LP rip now sounds veiled in comparison to the SACD.
And "Jazzin Surround" previously never sounded quite right, ever since I left behind my CB3 (non-HD) and Theta Compli (prior to blu ray, multi-channel analog SACD output) and also improved my front end vs rear by adding a Gen VIII DAC and Theta Citadel 1.5 amps for front left and right channels. Now as stated above "Jaxzin' Surround" sounds outstanding throughout the entire surround field!
The Aerial 7ts are a real keeper - and I am keepin' them. HA!


Stevie

I am genuinely thrilled for you my friend. I was slightly nervous because not everyone in the world hears what each one of us hears but in the case of the 7T I think anyone who knows audio would fall in love.

I hate to bore you guys with this story but its a true one and of course Steve has heard it along with others that listen to my rants smile.gif I have a friend his name is George.. George is a Childrens Dentist and is a serious Audiophile. George played in a band back in college and has a real love for music. George was a customer back in the day but its grown into a really nice friendship. He is into cars as I am and we have alot in common. What we didn't have in common was taste in Audio Components. George has a room off his master bedroom that maybe 14X24 or so. He turned this into his two channel room as its quiet and secluded and a perfect little listening room. When I first saw the room a few years ago he was playing around with these crazy speakers and digital crossovers that were very complicated and required special setup from the engineers and it was quite frankenstein if you ask me. He played it for me and I looked at him and said George for all the money and time you are spending here with these devices it doesn't sound great and he looked at me and said your right... As friends he finally conceded and said what do I do , I said listen to Aerials and they will change your life. So long story short he got a pair of 7T's which he is running with a Theta Dreadnaught III Amplifier with 4 Mono Cards in it and he is using 2 amp channels into each speaker which equates to lets say 225 each channel X 2 = 450 @ 8 ohms and Aerials are 4 so conservatively 700 Watts per channel. Now the 7Ts are very efficient and I think they are Aerials most efficient speaker but George wanted lots of power so even at low listening levels they will sing. He is using a Bryston BDP2 which I am sure you guys know what that is and a Theta Casablanca 3HD but only using it 2 channel right now so just as a DAC/Preamp. He wanted a future proof Preamp thinking one day he might make this a multi channel room.

I just asked George what the digital frankenstein stuff was because I forgot and trust me I didnt want to remember after I saw him go through hell trying to get this stuff to sound right.. The speakers were called Legend Tikandi and the electronics were called DEQx.. It was a crazy setup that never worked and they kept promising him that they were gonna have more software to fix things but it never worked. The speakers then were pumped up with some modular ESS ribbons on top. Still sounded terrible. The calibration required the engineer from the company to come and get it running but that didnt work either. At the end of the day it didnt sound great to me or George.

Okay roll forward. He gets his 7Ts and Theta stuff all hooked up and he calls me as he self installed and he tells me you got to come over. So there I am in is room all clean and nice with his racks that he built himself and all setup with his stuff and he whips out his Ipad and fires up the BDP2 and plays some tracks and guys I swear in over 20 years of this audio stuff and over 25 visits to CES listening to Audio I never heard anything this good. I know it sounds ridiculous as I have heard systems that cost more than most homes but I am telling you the Aerial 7T's changed my view of the Speaker industry. I don't think they should have been called the 7T. They should be the 12T.. For me and everyone I know that has them , they are better than the 9's in many ways and for myself I would take these over the 20Ts for most environments. They are much more flexible and they image in almost every location in Georges room. 20T's are wonderful but require much more room setup and they are not nearly as forgiving. The bass out of the 7T makes no sense that so much perfect tight controlled sound can emanate from such a reasonably priced speaker..

If you get a chance to make it to your Local Aerial Dealer do yourself a favor and listen to these..

Steve, Thank you so much for sharing your new system with us and please friday tell us how well the F212's integrate with the rest of the system and Dave thank you for helping us old guys in getting Steves subs into place.. smile.gif

Steve , Can you post some pics friday you guys putting this all together and some great shots of the new speakers ? That would be great !!

Thank you guys
Craig
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post #18 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

photo.JPG 114k .JPG file Vic, who did the brunt of the heavy labor and moved the screen up 7", as Emersive Audio Video has a work van. He only wishes though that it was the one in the following picture:

Omg and they have a website also..

Good find my friend
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post #19 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Craig is not exaggerating! He heard this with George's 7ts. I hear it with my 7ts still breakin' in. They sound amazing. An amazing speaker at a solid just under 10k MSRP that is something else.

Our Az AV Club President, Adam Goldfine, a Positive Feedback online reviewer, has opined that at CES 2014, the Aerial 6t was one of the 4-5 best speakers in his opinion. And Adam gave our club a 2.5 hour presentation of CES last week at my theater with my then Aerial 9 setup. And that was the 6t!

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post #20 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 10:11 PM
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Just to clarify - The ESS AMT drivers were being used with my hornshoppe horns and an OTL setup. The Tikandi was a complete speaker system using DEQX. Although the Tikandis were calibrated remotely, we never had the chance for the rep to come out and personally configure the system, although part of the configuration was to be the addition of a new front wall to create a more perfect physical space. This seemed a little extreme, considering the DEQX was supposed to correct for room anomolies. Nonetheless, with the system remotely calibrated by the rep there was a definite frequency bloom in the midrange which created a very forward and unnatural push in vocals, specifically female vocals. The side firing woofers also created somewhat of an issue in the room. Specifically, the room is 13x26 with a 9 foot celing. The side walls are 5' high and then there is an angled portion of the sidewall that eventually meets the ceiling. I'll post some photos when I have a chance. There are some basic absorbers and diffusers in the room - nothing exotic.

I had considered taking my two F112s out of my other system and using them with the 7t. Mind you, this is a two channel only setup. I brought one up to the second floor where my system is and gave it a test run. The difference, much to my surprise, was not night and day. With the sub playing I got a little more heft, but I didn't feel like I was missing much in the way of extension without it running. Again, two channel only - but I would be interested in hearing what Steve thinks by bringing the subs in and out during two channel playback.

How to they sound in the room? Sublime. Two channel stereo recordings take on another dimension. On Jen Chapin's recording of You Haven't Done Nothin' the saxophone hangs in a space higher and extended far more to the left than the television sound from Roger Waters' Amused to Death. Whereas Amused to Death uses phasing to create spacial effects, the Jen Chapin recording does not, and the saxophone presents in a clear, natural way (Craig mentioned I was a musician - I play saxophone, piano and guitar). With a recording such as Cantate Domino by Oscar's Motet Choir the pipe organ presents with extension, authority and clarity. As the crescendo builds it is as if the listening space becomes endless in all directions. Want to hear a Les Paul junior through a Laney Amplifier? Throw on Money for Nothing, sit back and listen. I own a les paul and a Marshall full stack. Not the same, but there is a certain quality to a guitar amplifier that is seldom captured on a recording. When I play Money for Nothing for my audiophile friends they ask if it is a special recording. It isn't - either is the recording of Pink Floyd's Speak to Me, where Gilmour's guitar amp could be sitting in the front left corner of the room. Piano? I won't even go there. I constantly hear people saying that their system sounds like a real piano. I have never heard a sytem that presents piano like a real piano. Never. Period. Not even this one. I have the fortunate circumstance of having a somewhat decent frame of reference for piano sitting downstairs in my house - a Bosendorfer 290 Imperial 9' 6" concert grand. This one:

pianoside1.jpg

It sounds like a piano. Pianos on every great audio system I've heard sound great, but it still doesn't sound like having a piano in the room. Close, yes - but not real like Knopfler's and Gilmour's Amps do on this system.

I could go on, citing examples from 2Ls The Nordic Sound, how individual choir members can be pinpointed with ease. I can tell you that one of the great things about having a system that can present clarity and realism is that at higher SPLs it can be so unfatiguing on the ears that I could easily fall asleep with the system running at a fair tilt after a hard day's work. All in all, it's just an amazing "little" setup. There is something to be said about the Synergy between the Theta-Aerial pairing - it just works. Cabling is Cardas Clear and power cords are Sablon Audio Gran Corona. No power conditioning. Here is the room set up with the old system (which used RSA power conditioning)

Room1.jpg

Room1.jpg

room3.jpg

I'll get more photos of the new setup as soon as I have a chance.
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post #21 of 146 Old 01-30-2014, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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George,

Thanks for your insights!!!@@@

I am listening to 5.1 96-24 Emmylou Harris right now. I not only hear the bass, but I feel it as though its in the room with me.

Whether the JL subs will make a noticeable improvement for music remains to be heard - but as they have fast and tight 12" woofers I would think they will certainly have an impact on at least some recordings with real deep bass. And of course the subs will be a blast on action movies!tongue.gif

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post #22 of 146 Old 01-31-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by saxguy View Post

Just to clarify - The ESS AMT drivers were being used with my hornshoppe horns and an OTL setup. The Tikandi was a complete speaker system using DEQX. Although the Tikandis were calibrated remotely, we never had the chance for the rep to come out and personally configure the system, although part of the configuration was to be the addition of a new front wall to create a more perfect physical space. This seemed a little extreme, considering the DEQX was supposed to correct for room anomolies. Nonetheless, with the system remotely calibrated by the rep there was a definite frequency bloom in the midrange which created a very forward and unnatural push in vocals, specifically female vocals. The side firing woofers also created somewhat of an issue in the room. Specifically, the room is 13x26 with a 9 foot celing. The side walls are 5' high and then there is an angled portion of the sidewall that eventually meets the ceiling. I'll post some photos when I have a chance. There are some basic absorbers and diffusers in the room - nothing exotic.

I had considered taking my two F112s out of my other system and using them with the 7t. Mind you, this is a two channel only setup. I brought one up to the second floor where my system is and gave it a test run. The difference, much to my surprise, was not night and day. With the sub playing I got a little more heft, but I didn't feel like I was missing much in the way of extension without it running. Again, two channel only - but I would be interested in hearing what Steve thinks by bringing the subs in and out during two channel playback.

How to they sound in the room? Sublime. Two channel stereo recordings take on another dimension. On Jen Chapin's recording of You Haven't Done Nothin' the saxophone hangs in a space higher and extended far more to the left than the television sound from Roger Waters' Amused to Death. Whereas Amused to Death uses phasing to create spacial effects, the Jen Chapin recording does not, and the saxophone presents in a clear, natural way (Craig mentioned I was a musician - I play saxophone, piano and guitar). With a recording such as Cantate Domino by Oscar's Motet Choir the pipe organ presents with extension, authority and clarity. As the crescendo builds it is as if the listening space becomes endless in all directions. Want to hear a Les Paul junior through a Laney Amplifier? Throw on Money for Nothing, sit back and listen. I own a les paul and a Marshall full stack. Not the same, but there is a certain quality to a guitar amplifier that is seldom captured on a recording. When I play Money for Nothing for my audiophile friends they ask if it is a special recording. It isn't - either is the recording of Pink Floyd's Speak to Me, where Gilmour's guitar amp could be sitting in the front left corner of the room. Piano? I won't even go there. I constantly hear people saying that their system sounds like a real piano. I have never heard a sytem that presents piano like a real piano. Never. Period. Not even this one. I have the fortunate circumstance of having a somewhat decent frame of reference for piano sitting downstairs in my house - a Bosendorfer 290 Imperial 9' 6" concert grand. This one:

[IMG]http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n233/saxguy71/pianoside1.jpg[/IM It sounds like a piano. Pianos on every great audio system I've heard sound great, but it still doesn't sound like having a piano in the room. Close, yes - but not real like Knopfler's and Gilmour's Amps do on this system. I could go on, citing examples from 2Ls The Nordic Sound, how individual choir members can be pinpointed with ease. I can tell you that one of the great things about having a system that can present clarity and realism is that at higher SPLs it can be so unfatiguing on the ears that I could easily fall asleep with the system running at a fair tilt after a hard day's work. All in all, it's just an amazing "little" setup. There is something to be said about the Synergy between the Theta-Aerial pairing - it just works. Cabling is Cardas Clear and power cords are Sablon Audio Gran Corona. No power conditioning. Here is the room set up with the old system (which used RSA power conditioning)Room1.jpg

Room1.jpg

room3.jpg

I'll get more photos of the new setup as soon as I have a chance.

Very nice George indeed. Could you describe the room treatments? They look to be QRD 734's diffusers on the walls, and also a 3D diffuser on the cielings.
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post #23 of 146 Old 01-31-2014, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to Dave Thezak, as well as my friend Bob Thompson and my younger daughter's boyfriend Mat Ruck for assisting in
bringing in two humungous weightwise JL Audio Fantom f212-gloasy subwoofers today at about 5 PM.


Some photos below:

Center Aerial 7t, Theta Enterprise monoblock, with two JL Audio f212 subwoofers


Left Aerial 7t & Theta Citadel 1.5 monoblock


Pallet with two JL Audio f212 subwoofers


Right Aerial 7t & Theta Citadel 1.5 monoblock

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #24 of 146 Old 01-31-2014, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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While we waited for Bob, Dave Thezak and I listened to a whole bunch of multi-channel tracks, and some stereo tracks, via JRiver Media Center 19. Media Server video card HDMI out, into CB3 HD (with CB3 HD using Generation VIII Series 3 DAC for front left and right. This was prior to installing the subs. Dave (and I) were impressed with the music to say the least.

After installing and level matching the subwoofers, one a bit to the right, and one a bit to the left, of the center of the screen wall
(see photo), we listened to music again. Quickly Dave mentioned how the music, already wonderful without and prior to installing the JL Audio subs, - how the music got even a good amount better - even better imaging, even more fluidity, even better everything!
I noticed this too. I used the same CB3 HD crossovers that I used with the Aerial subs - Butterworth hi and low pass 40 Hz 6dB.
So the JL Audio subwoofers are a nice improvement to music!!!@@@ I'm sure Dave will post and give you his own word describing this.

Interestingly, I played the Steely Dan "Aja" ripped LP (redbook ripped) and compared to the Japanese SHM SACD (ripped).
Prior to the subs install, the LP version sounded somewhat disembodied (my words) in comparison to the SACD version.
After subs install, I thought the SACD version again was clearly overall better - but the LP version still sounded quite good, a lot better than prior to the subs install. Go figure?

Later, we (daughter, boyfriend and me) watched the Blu Ray of "Two Guns". And I've also watched some TV shows, prior to subs, and also "Banshee" tonight. For "Two Guns" I kept the subs volume equal to the other speakers. In my prior Aerial sub setup,
I had set the subs volume to plus 3dB compared to the main speakers. Sonics were excellent, though I think I will try for video the plus 3dB again My "gut" is that the individual sounds including dialogue in video is more focused and clear than my prior Aerial 9s' setup, but I can't say that this is a whopping improvement (as opposed to at least some improvement) like I hear that multichannel music is! I repeat, on multichannel music (ripped DVD-Audio and SACD), I am blown away by the sonic improvement of the music
(1) first, using the five Aerial 7ts without any subwoofer; and (2) second, adding the two JL Audio subwoofer, there is another large sonic improvement in the music!

Note that I installed the subs each just off the front wall center because I have room for them there, and I previously used measurements to determine that the subs reasonably approached being closer to flat in those locations than other locations around my room.

Good night!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #25 of 146 Old 02-01-2014, 07:32 AM
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Steve-

Congratulations on your new system. I am glad you are finding it to be an improvement. However, I blame you for a serious case of upgradeitis I have now come down with. This is definitely not good for my retirement planning rolleyes.gif

David Lynch
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post #26 of 146 Old 02-01-2014, 08:23 PM
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Steve, I like the way that you bring a well planned system change to fruition so quickly. Enjoy!smile.gifsmile.gif Norm
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post #27 of 146 Old 02-01-2014, 11:18 PM - Thread Starter
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OK. When Dave and I listened to HDMI multichannel hi res music, prior to the subs even being in my theater, keep in mind that with ONLY five full range 7ts, the CB3HD "folded" the .1 subwoofer track into the main channels.This act alone changed the sonics. So when we added the JL Audo subs tot he mix, "unfolding" the .1 back into the .1 LFE channel really should sound better provided one has decent subs and decent placement. But this showed you what can happen if you don't have subs and play LFE stuff - that even with excellent full range speakers with plenty of low bass for music, its just not as good - at least with speakers not in a stratospheric price class - if you don't have a sub or subs.

I initially placed the subs about where I had my front Aerial subs previously, which I determined by demoing, listening, and measuring room response using a Velodyne SMS-1.
But now having read the JL Audio manual, and as they have an EQ which will reduce one peak (often enough to substantially improve low bass), JL Audio recommends
that with two of these subs: (1) Connect Master to Slave - so only have 1 sub in the CB3 HD manu - this is so the EQ program can work properly for two subs; (2) sub placement - opposite centers of room, opposite corners or near corners of room (whether across width of room, or diagonally across the room), or inside the front left and right speakers; (3) set hi and low pass in SSP to 80 dB, 12 Hz; and (4) run EQ program for both subs. I will try this method., with the subs about a foot away from the front screen wall and the subs about 8' apart.

HDMI multichannel clearly sounds somewhat better with the 7ts than the prior 9s. However, USB 2 channel via the Gen VIII Series 3 (not using the CB3 HD) still sounds appreciably better, more you are there. IF you only listened to HDMI and didn't have the USB 2 channel, you'd be quite happy. But once listening to USB 2 channel, you want to do that for critical listening with the 7ts, just like with the 9s, only the 7ts sound better!biggrin.gif

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #28 of 146 Old 02-01-2014, 11:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, I am very glad that the CB4 will have a new digital input board. My demoing has determined that the digital coaxial/bnc and AES/EBU inputs to the CB3 HD (almost 15 years old) perform poorly in comparison to HDMI, with my new Aerial 7t system. Playing 2 channel music of varying resolutions with the 7ts, HDMI sounds appreciably better than using the other digital inputs - and then the "other" digital inputs using only the Gen VIII Series 3 DAC sounds appreciably better than the HDMI CB3 HD route. I have found this to be the case regardless of the bit depth or sample rate, high resolution and redbook.

This is using my media server SOTM USB card out to Berkeley Alpha USB converter with digital audio cables (AES/EBU and also bnc coaxial) out to the CB3 HD or the Gen VIII, And for HDMI, using my media server video card HDMI out to the CB3 HD.

Also, I played a few cuts from Al Jarrau, and Emmylou Harris/Rodney Crowell, and the bass was annoyingly distorted using the USB audio with digital audio cables into the CB3 HD; whereas using CB3 HD HDMI or only the Gen VIII digital after conversion from USB, the bass is fine (even better of course using only Gen VIII for USB audio).

Hopefully the new digital input board for the CB4 will solve this dilemma.Theta should test this like I have been doing to hopefully ensure that the CB4 will sound the same on music (whether 16 or 24 bit, and regardless of the sample rate) (1) when the CB4 is used without using any external DACS, and (2) when the CB4 us used in conjunction with the Gen VIII Series 3 DAC as the front left and right channels.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #29 of 146 Old 02-02-2014, 01:06 PM
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Steve, great to see you are still fighting the audio good-fight !
Congrat's on the recent upgrades, and your ongoing enthusiasm you bring to AVS.
I don't participate much here at AVS anymore, but every time I pop back in to see what's going on here, there is Steve Bruzonsky all excited about something biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #30 of 146 Old 02-02-2014, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Andy.

Well, from about 8 AM to 2:00 PM, I was setting up and demoing the two JL Fathom f212 subwoofers! finally got it all done, using the technique I describe above and from the JL Audo subwoofer manual (I actually read the manual completely - that's a first for me).

I have the subs dialed in for both music and video. They sound fantastic! You should see, feel and hear them on pipe organ music! these subs are killer subs and totally musical, even with me using the JL Audio recommended low and hi pass Butterworth at 80 Hz 6 dB with the CB3 HD!!!@@

Thanks to VGI/Craig Shumer who has recommended these subs to me for several years now. As always, when Craig tells me something sounds clearly a good deal better, like Aerial 7ts vs 9s (in 2007, Aerial 9s vs the old model 10Ts), the JL Audio f212 subs over others, he is - - - RIGHT ON.

Also, as I listen to anything, I have discretion to temporarily turn up that .1 LFE subwoofer channel by up to perhaps about 5 - 7 dB (per my listening tests) if I feel like feeling more bass. HA!

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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