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post #31 of 218 Old 02-12-2014, 08:59 AM
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My definition of affordable: somewhere in the $8-10K neighborhood
A realistic definition of affordable: slightly less than the Datasat

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post #32 of 218 Old 02-12-2014, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes I think if we can get a good bit of what is being asked for in the ~$15 - 18k range, this would be a very good seller. If its anywhere near the $40k that ADA wants , then no thanks.


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post #33 of 218 Old 02-12-2014, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

My definition of affordable: somewhere in the $8-10K neighborhood
A realistic definition of affordable: slightly less than the Datasat

The Amethyst is 9000euros according to a recent review. (over $12k, according to google). So, unfortunately, that number probably needs to double.

Unless some of the recent price changes help out.
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post #34 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure where the info came from, but some pictures and information were posted in a thread on the Emotiva forum.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/614519


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post #35 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Not sure where the info came from, but some pictures and information were posted in a thread on the Emotiva forum.

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/614519

It's a scan from a brochure handed out at the recent ISE fair in The Netherlands.

So there will be four versions with 8-16-24-32 channels...

Here's the source in Dutch:
http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=140442.msg2579861#msg2579861

He says the Altitude 32 will cost €14,700. If that's indeed the version with 32 output channels (and 16 inputs) then this seems far better value than the same priced 15 output channel Datasat LS10 sans Dirac.

Edit: a closer look learns that the 4 versions are all called "Altitude 32". The versions are from Altitude 32 / 8-8 up to Altitude 32 / 16-32...

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post #36 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

It's a scan from a brochure handed out at the recent ISE fair in The Netherlands.

So there will be four versions with 8-16-24-32 channels? Price of €15,000 was named, but no idea for which version that was.

The 15K Euros includes 21% VAT, apparently, which US folks don't pay as such AFAIK (although there's other taxes that may apply). But if that's the 32 channel price, there's a remote chance that the 8 channel version might _almost_ be affordable in my dream world LOL (under $10K US). OTOH, if that's the eight channel price....it's in Datasat territory or greater.

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Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #37 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

The 15K Euros includes 21% VAT, apparently, which US folks don't pay as such AFAIK (although there's other taxes that may apply). But if that's the 32 channel price, there's a remote chance that the 8 channel version might _almost_ be affordable in my dream world LOL (under $10K US). OTOH, if that's the eight channel price....it's in Datasat territory or greater.
+1 but I jumped to fast. See my edit. I guess it's the start price for the 8-channel version.

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post #38 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:37 PM
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Well its €10k euros for a trinnov mc 8 with no digi cards. So I'm gonna guess that this €15k is for the most basic model, either that or there is something missing from it.

For an 8 channel analogue expansion card for trinnov mc is €2500. Same for 8 chan digi card. So on those workings it's would be a good €10k extra for all cards. So I reckon nearer €25k for the full blown model. Which, IMO, is a bit of a bargain!
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post #39 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

So I reckon nearer €25k for the full blown model. Which, IMO, is a bit of a bargain!

Everything is relative I suppose...

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post #40 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I really like that 32 channel room layout. Now if only I had a room that was about 37 x 63 x 14......


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post #41 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:46 PM
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Well I say bargain, in comparison to Ada cinema reference with 16 channel trinnov out which comes in at £48k. All that extra money must be going on the LCD screen. Lol
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post #42 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Well its €10k euros for a trinnov mc 8 with no digi cards. So I'm gonna guess that this €15k is for the most basic model, either that or there is something missing from it.

For an 8 channel analogue expansion card for trinnov mc is €2500. Same for 8 chan digi card. So on those workings it's would be a good €10k extra for all cards. So I reckon nearer €25k for the full blown model. Which, IMO, is a bit of a bargain!

And to be honest, more what I'd expect given the niche Trinnov fills and the competition. I had the vague fantasy that if there were straight HDMI I/O and less I/O choices than the MC units or the Cinema Reference the unit might be less. But what's in the brochure actually makes sense for the Altitude as the ultimate pre-amp for maximal speaker choices.

Oh well, the MC-8 is starting to look like a relative bargain for those of us that are comparatively proles.....

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:


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post #43 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Well I say bargain, in comparison to Ada cinema reference with 16 channel trinnov out which comes in at £48k. All that extra money must be going on the LCD screen. Lol


I think all that extra money went to "we are the only ones selling this capability right now" (that being Trinnov processing and lots of channel outputs). smile.gif



Good on Trinnov for bringing out something at a price point many may actually consider.


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post #44 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I think all that extra money went to "we are the only ones selling this capability right now" (that being Trinnov processing and lots of channel outputs). smile.gif



Good on Trinnov for bringing out something at a price point many may actually consider.

Many of you would know better than me, but these are relatively low volume units....and the assembly from what I've read is customized at the user level, so under those conditions ADA can charge what they see fit to this point.

Back to playing with my Sherwood, I suppose, for the near future....

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:


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post #45 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 02:13 PM
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Interestingly enough the brochure says absolutely nothing about HD codec decoding.
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post #46 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 03:31 PM
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This is a translation from the Hifi.nl site. From Ron ( of trinnov ? ). Looks like no codecs except Dolby dig.

Quote from: RogerS on February 10, 2014, 22: 36: 08 That I know too but unfortunately I can not answer at the 15 k home boss. Over 5 years is that device already obsolete. A depreciation of 3 k a year just for a surround processor ...

Trinnov 😯 devices are certainly not obsolete in 5 years! That's because Trinnov room/speaker correction focuses on. By the modular structure can be hardware parts replaced if necessary. Software is the Amethyst and Altitude32 always customizable. Codecs and the like are not installed (except Dolby Digital) because the sources that already have. Meanwhile I between the stuff of the fair have come back another Altitude32 directory found. Look at the specs on the picture. As soon as I will have a pdf I put it here. ron
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post #47 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 03:32 PM
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And €14700 is for the base line 8/8 model.
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post #48 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

And €14700 is for the base line 8/8 model.

That's probably in the price vicinity I would have expected - a great feature of this unit is its ability to add additional channles over time.
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post #49 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 04:20 PM
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Seems to have music streaming built in also. Which is a nice feature.

I need to find out its same quality output stages and input stages as the Trinnov MC. If it has then it does seam like a great piece of kit.

Basically a trinnov mc with the Amethyst built in and HDMI PCM input boards. Just asked it it handles SACD DSD and DVD Audio
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post #50 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Codecs and the like are not installed (except Dolby Digital) because the sources that already have.

True that BD players decode lossless Dolby and DTS, but what about Auro?

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post #51 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 04:27 PM
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This does not make sense not being able to decode sources, not all sources have built in decoders, for instance the kaleidescape can not decode and output lpcm.
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post #52 of 218 Old 02-13-2014, 04:36 PM
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Yes the fact it doesn't decode is a major fail really. As said KScape only bitstreams and this Trinnov Altitude is aimed at that market.

Still contemplating adding a trinnov mc with 16 aes in and 16 analogue out to my Datasat RS20i. See how its compares both in room correction and dac stages.
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post #53 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 06:33 AM
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A processor without codecs is not really a processor. Right now I am running my all my HDMI sources via a Lumagen XE-3D video processor, Hdmi out 1 to projector, HDMI 2 to Oppo 103 with Vanity board light digital SPDIF to Trinnov MC16. So I am now experiencing life without HD decoding. The Oppo decodes up to Digital 5.1 on its HDMI inputs, and internally for Bluray and video files all HD codecs. The Oppo does not decode HD codecs on its HDMI inputs.

So what is different from this setup and the Altitude without Codecs?

Here is what is missing from this setup:

1)Dolby Digital PL2X expansion to 7 channels, and DTS Neo expansion.
2)Not all sources are capable od internal decoding of HD Codecs, as noted Kaleidescape does not have this function. Dune HD player dooes not decode 7.1 HD codecs properly and only outputs 5.1 LPCM. I am sure there are other sources that do not perform internal decoding properly.
3)Future 3D codecs, Auro 3D, Atmos, DTS UHD etc.
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post #54 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Does decoding really appreciably add to the complexity or price of a unit like this? I can't imagine so since it's included in $200 receivers. I cannot understand why it would not be included. I would not be interested without decoding. If it were full featured it would have been a pretty likely purchase for me (assuming I could get the channels I need in the $16k - ish price range).


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post #55 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 07:41 AM
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Well its release date is a long way off, perhaps decoding will be added. It baffles me as a product with out it.

As said its just a sexier looking trinnov mc with Amythist built in,
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post #56 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post

Well its release date is a long way off, perhaps decoding will be added. It baffles me as a product with out it.

As said its just a sexier looking trinnov mc with Amythist built in,

I would rather look at it as an ADA Reference with the ADA Mach IV cut out of the signal path allowing an HDMI feed into the MC circuitry. This machine will yielding similar or better sound quality and similar usability as the ADA reference (all circuits which determine sound quality are the same) at a much lower pricepoint. Only think that is not there is decoding, which is not needed in the vast majority of real world applications. As a significant bonus it supports network streaming.
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post #57 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I would think they could make back the money it costs to R&D and implement decoding in this thing with 5 sales or less of the units to people (like me) who would not consider it without. Just my 2 cents...


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post #58 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

I would think they could make back the money it costs to R&D and implement decoding in this thing with 5 sales or less of the units to people (like me) who would not consider it without. Just my 2 cents...

Fair point. Major oversight. Many people just won't buy it without decoding. Clearly a company run by engineers. They figure, the vast majority of people don't need it. Does not matter. It is must have feature for marketing purposes.
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post #59 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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People say they like to see the little "DTS-MA" light or equivalent lit up, and while that sounds silly and simple, I do agree that at least it lets me know that the audio settings on my source, media, etc are set correctly and giving me what I expected to be output without having to really check. I use enough different source devices (HTPC, Mede8er media player, Dune media player, Oppo 93) that is would not be abnormal at all for some setting to have been changed and all of a sudden I am outputting 2 channel PCM to a processor that is then expanding that to 5 or 7 channels vs outputting the lossless 5 or 7 channel track I thought I was.

So if nothing else, it is peace of mind, and a big reason I require it in my pre / pro.


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post #60 of 218 Old 02-14-2014, 12:18 PM
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As the Altitude is coming out later in the year, currently customer preferences are being considered vs R&D/implementation costs.  It is too early to say what codecs will be in the Altitude just yet.  As we know, codecs cover both decoding (MP3, DD HD, to emerging 3D decoding) and up mixing (PL2, PL2x, NEOx, etc).  Each comes with benefit and cost.  Some are redundant- as Trinnov has pointed out, and others will be desired for their uniqueness.  

 

Favorite codecs- which ones are essential and which ones optional in a processor- that is a good question here.  What would you like to see?


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