Trinnov Altitude - Page 57 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 897Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1681 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 04:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
maikeldepotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,323
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1039 Post(s)
Liked: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangcoma View Post
I am using Altitude 32 since Sep 2015 , maybe I can help to give u guys some answer !

But for better reply , if u guy can make a question list , that would be nice!
Great!

Well for starters:

How would you describe the changes in sound when listening to any given immersive format (Atmos/DSU/Auro3D/AuroMatic) when you activate and de-activate the remapping function, while using a physical speaker lay-out that is within the specifications of that given format?

Thanks.

A good idea and understanding lies at the basis of every successful project.
maikeldepotter is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1682 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 04:39 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wookii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,809
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1292 Post(s)
Liked: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Great!

Well for starters:

How would you describe the changes in sound when listening to any given immersive format (Atmos/DSU/Auro3D/AuroMatic) when you activate and de-activate the remapping function, while using a physical speaker lay-out that is within the specifications of that given format?

Thanks.
Sorry to query your query, but would that not be somewhat pointless? My understanding is the the remapping is used for speaker layouts where the physical speaker positions do not correctly match the specified positions, and hence create a phantom image in the correct position.

If the speakers are already in the correct positions, then no remapping is required since the phantom position and the physical position will be one and the same, no?
Wookii is offline  
post #1683 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 04:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
Brucemck2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Sorry to query your query, but would that not be somewhat pointless? My understanding is the the remapping is used for speaker layouts where the physical speaker positions do not correctly match the specified positions, and hence create a phantom image in the correct position.

If the speakers are already in the correct positions, then no remapping is required since the phantom position and the physical position will be one and the same, no?
It's a function of both the speaker and the room; your statement is only true for a perfect layout in a room that imposes minimal room interactions on every speaker and where every speaker is identical.

My basic 7.1 layout is not perfect (the side surrounds had to be ceiling mounted and thus are on a different vertical plane) than the spec. But, my room is very heavily treated, all my speakers were voiced by the same manufacturer, etc. In my experience, the remapping greatly "solidifies" the imaging and improves the sense of spaciousness and "air" in the room. In my room that's even true of the simplest case: stereo as the mode with two identical speakers in the exact recommended locations.

Remapping is a very practical approach to addressing a very common problem.

That being said, it works best (better) in better configurations (speakers in right locations, voiced properly, etc.) and when the listening positions are highly proximate.
Brucemck2 is offline  
 
post #1684 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 05:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wookii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,809
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1292 Post(s)
Liked: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post
It's a function of both the speaker and the room; your statement is only true for a perfect layout in a room that imposes minimal room interactions on every speaker and where every speaker is identical.

My basic 7.1 layout is not perfect (the side surrounds had to be ceiling mounted and thus are on a different vertical plane) than the spec. But, my room is very heavily treated, all my speakers were voiced by the same manufacturer, etc. In my experience, the remapping greatly "solidifies" the imaging and improves the sense of spaciousness and "air" in the room. In my room that's even true of the simplest case: stereo as the mode with two identical speakers in the exact recommended locations.

Remapping is a very practical approach to addressing a very common problem.

That being said, it works best (better) in better configurations (speakers in right locations, voiced properly, etc.) and when the listening positions are highly proximate.
Thanks Bruce that's great, that's exactly the kind of feedback I'd like to hear, and that probably answers @maikeldepotter 's question as least in part. I had no idea that remapping would have such a positive impact on a speaker layout where the positions were already correct. I had assumed the optimiser would take the load of room correction and room interactions, but remapping assists with this too then?
Wookii is offline  
post #1685 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 06:40 AM
Advanced Member
 
Brucemck2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I had assumed the optimiser would take the load of room correction and room interactions, but remapping assists with this too then?
Yes. In the simplest case, with mode set to Stereo playing back a two channel source, you can see in the Trinnov output meters that all nine of my speakers are firing, albeit at very low levels. In effect, remapping is using every speaker to make the Left and Right sound as if each were a perfectly located speaker in an ideal room (and that's with both the Left and Right already in the exact right physical locations to begin with.)
Brucemck2 is offline  
post #1686 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 07:04 AM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
- What do you like about the system, what don't you like

That's is really expensive , I am ordering a 16ch before , but I found that the process ability of this monster , I change my order to 24ch ! And now I am running a 9.2.7 system , and my final goal will be 11.6.9 ! So probably I have to upgraded it to 32ch later this year ! The set up is a big different from Japan Brand (The one I use before is Denon AVP-A1HD ) ! First u have to go through the whole interface once and u can found that the system is more like a PC software ! When u get used to the interface , everything is easy and fast and straight forward ! All the thing look more professional and powerful , and the adjust value is very detail !

The most I don't like is it is very expensive , even the mic and the 3D codex is money ! But I can sure the money u spent is worth it !

- What sounds good, what doesn't sound so good

Do u mean the sound quality or what ? For sound quality, it is outstanding what ever what it play ! PCM , DTS-HD , True HD/Atmos etc , native or upmix through Auromatic or Dolby Surround is really satisfying and really little source get issue ! Some 96khz or 192khz track that u cannot apply Auromatic to upmix or some DTS Track ! Dolby Surround is much more stable that Auromatic in this ! But mostly I will use Auromatic for music content and leave Dolby Surround for movie/game content ! Believe me , when u have a machine that can handle that ch of processing, u will not want to play with native 5.1/7.1 !

I don't have time to play around with analog ! So I can't give any detail on analog performance !

- What is the system like to use in day to day operation, have you encountered any operational bugs, how frequently are Trinnov releasing updates to resolve any bugs

I have updated 2 times since Sep 2015 ! And the latest update is 2 weeks ago and this is so far very stable ! But before this update , the machine have tried a few time freezing or crush and I have to do the hard reset while I am changing the input source !

Every time u change the source , if u have a different preset in different input , the machine need a computing to that preset ! That mean every time u change a preset it need Take around 15 -20 seconds to do that !

- Have you found any interesting and useful features that non-owners might not be aware of

The target curve and limiter curve is very useful for what u prefer the sound like ! And every time u change the target curve or limiter curve it do need few minute to computing ! And this target curve is base on the optimizer result ! That mean u have to run the optimizer and it will generate a filter to smooth out your frequencies response first ! So it is as flat as possible ! And then u can add some preference on this flat response !

The target curve and limiter curve can save to different presents and different present u can apply different EQ !

It's has 29 presets and one is built in that u can change anything ! The other 28 u can change whatever u want , for me , I have one for movie , one for music , one for music flat and one for testing ! This is very useful for u to test any preference u want , speakers layout , EQ , channel level , bass management, etc !

Every time u add speaker or remove speaker , u have to run optimizer again to have further more adjust ! The optimizer is a must when u want to go through the add the parameters !

"Save" is very important when u do any change before or after ! So the "Testing" preset is really useful for u to start with !

I will suggest that the first time after the calibration to save as "Testing" , and then u copy it to have "Testing 1" and "Testing 2" etc to try out everything on that ! And don't do anything on "Testing" that as a reference ! So if u screwed up "Testing 1" , u still can go back to "Testing" and start over !

- What is the calibration process like - what calibration techniques (mic positions etc) have proved most effective, what manual tweaks have you found that have improved performance and audio quality

The optimizer calibration is a bit tricky , cause the mic have 4 reception ! So it can measure a 3D location of your loudspeakers ! So make sure that the mic is parallel to the floor ! If not , it will affect the remapping feature ! And the reference(First calibration point) must be the main listing position ! And at ear level ! The other point u do is not a big deal !

And u can do as many measures as u want , for me I do 6 multi points ! And u can do the computing after all 6 points ! The measure take 2-5 minutes to finish depend on how many speakers/Subwoofer u have ! And the computing take much longer like 10mins to complete !

There are not much u can do with the calibration, make the environment as quiet as it can and don't moving around when the measure is processed ! U can stop the measure anytime during the measure! But u can't stop the computing process !

- How effective is the remapping, are there any downsides to remapping (e.g. loss of resolution etc)

The remapping is so effective ! After engaging remapping , the sound is a little softer and natural ! Without remapping , the sound is much more direct , and u can hear more from the front !

For me , I am using a LS1 and RS1 in between my Front and my Surround ! Without remapping , the LS1/RS1 is silent , if I engaged remapping , the Front will be remap to a point that between my Front and LS1 ! So I can use it to smooth out the sound panning from my front to Ls1 to Ls ! But the downside is u lost some direct sound from one speaker ! Cause remapping use more than one speakers to produce the virtual point of the references speaker location ! And it is 3D dimensional ! So i do suggest to engaged remapping and this is one of the most advance feature to make different 3D Sound format is listening well in only one layout !

But if only for native 2 ch source , i do suggest to off remapping function , and just let Left and Right to do there job !

Anyway , I am enjoying the remapping !

Hope this can help ! Thx !
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_8569.jpg
Views:	210
Size:	113.5 KB
ID:	1279769   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2328.jpg
Views:	202
Size:	137.1 KB
ID:	1279777   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0152.jpg
Views:	210
Size:	48.6 KB
ID:	1279785   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0153.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	38.6 KB
ID:	1279793   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0156.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	39.8 KB
ID:	1279801  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0481.jpg
Views:	189
Size:	195.1 KB
ID:	1279809   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0482.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	201.1 KB
ID:	1279817   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0869.jpg
Views:	180
Size:	176.4 KB
ID:	1279825   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0151.jpg
Views:	178
Size:	52.4 KB
ID:	1279833   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0154.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	43.6 KB
ID:	1279841  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0155.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	39.7 KB
ID:	1279849   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9768.jpg
Views:	158
Size:	221.9 KB
ID:	1279857   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9769.jpg
Views:	173
Size:	220.5 KB
ID:	1279865   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9770.jpg
Views:	161
Size:	150.5 KB
ID:	1279873   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9771.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	122.1 KB
ID:	1279881  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1951.jpg
Views:	164
Size:	120.3 KB
ID:	1279889   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1952.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	284.7 KB
ID:	1279897   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1953.jpg
Views:	136
Size:	250.9 KB
ID:	1279905  
mikela, thxman, stephenbr and 3 others like this.
tangcoma is offline  
post #1687 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 07:11 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
maikeldepotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 1,323
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1039 Post(s)
Liked: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post
Yes. In the simplest case, with mode set to Stereo playing back a two channel source, you can see in the Trinnov output meters that all nine of my speakers are firing, albeit at very low levels. In effect, remapping is using every speaker to make the Left and Right sound as if each were a perfectly located speaker in an ideal room (and that's with both the Left and Right already in the exact right physical locations to begin with.)
That is nothing less than amazing. Are you sure you are comparing 'optimizer ON, remapping OFF' with 'Optimizer ON, remapping ON'?

A good idea and understanding lies at the basis of every successful project.
maikeldepotter is online now  
post #1688 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 07:12 AM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I'm just keen to hear any user experiences Tangcoma, the good, the bad, and the ugly! E.g.:

- What do you like about the system, what don't you like
- What sounds good, what doesn't sound so good
- What is the system like to use in day to day operation, have you encountered any operational bugs, how frequently are Trinnov releasing updates to resolve any bugs
- Have you found any interesting and useful features that non-owners might not be aware of
- What is the calibration process like - what calibration techniques (mic positions etc) have proved most effective, what manual tweaks have you found that have improved performance and audio quality
- How effective is the remapping, are there any downsides to remapping (e.g. loss of resolution etc)

Etc, Etc, I could go on forever, but hopefully you get the idea, any user experience is good to hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
Great!

Well for starters:

How would you describe the changes in sound when listening to any given immersive format (Atmos/DSU/Auro3D/AuroMatic) when you activate and de-activate the remapping function, while using a physical speaker lay-out that is within the specifications of that given format?

Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
Sorry to query your query, but would that not be somewhat pointless? My understanding is the the remapping is used for speaker layouts where the physical speaker positions do not correctly match the specified positions, and hence create a phantom image in the correct position.

If the speakers are already in the correct positions, then no remapping is required since the phantom position and the physical position will be one and the same, no?
I have post some reply and doesn't know can't quote that ! pls check ! Thx
tangcoma is offline  
post #1689 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 07:17 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 25,748
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1666 Post(s)
Liked: 1005
What have you used before the Altitude and all things being equal, would you buy again?

Thanks for the info!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
thebland is online now  
post #1690 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 07:34 AM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
What have you used before the Altitude and all things being equal, would you buy again?

Thanks for the info!
I broke everything and build from zero ! All the equipment is new and well designed before building !
tangcoma is offline  
post #1691 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 02:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Brucemck2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
That is nothing less than amazing. Are you sure you are comparing 'optimizer ON, remapping OFF' with 'Optimizer ON, remapping ON'?
Yes.

Prior to Trinnov I used Tact, Meridian MSR, Audyssey Pro, and DEQX

Last edited by Brucemck2; 02-27-2016 at 11:07 AM.
Brucemck2 is offline  
post #1692 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 03:26 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 3,260
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 865 Post(s)
Liked: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
What have you used before the Altitude and all things being equal, would you buy again?

Thanks for the info!

This decade, a Denon 4311 with Audyssey Pro, with parallel ownership of a Sherwood R-972 with the 2008 version of Trinnov on DSP for the two years before I got the Altitude delivered. Both were 5.1/7.1 systems.


After demoing the full Trinnov a few times when I visited some AVS friends of mine with it, and hearing first hand not only the sound clarity but how the target curve and PEQ equalization, as well as changes to the Optimizer parameters in near-real time could create a lifelike sound on live music material, I decided that I had to upgrade to a full Trinnov runtime solution as a next step. Then the Altitude came around, and with Atmos and other codecs hitting the market, the choice was obvious to me that as a one-time investment within the Trinnov product line, it was the way to go as a choice to anchor my HT experience.

I would go so far as to literally say the Altitude changed my life (or at least our lifestyle LOL). Without it, we might not have decided we needed to buy a home where we absolutely had to have had a dedicated HT room as the biggest room in our place, and to the extent possible, looking for a rectangular room without fireplaces, having a room with a 8'+ flat ceiling, avoiding odd bulges as much as possible, and not being part of an open floor plan was a tiebreaker when we shopped for real estate last year. If I hadn't gotten the Altitude and wound up with a mainstream Marantz with Audyssey or the MiniDSP 88A with Dirac instead (or just an 8 or 12 channel Magnitude), we might well have stayed with a straight multipurpose living room and possibly even wound up in a different part of Chicago than we ultimately bought into. So yes, you could say it made a difference.

Was it worth the listening experience and I would buy again? Of course, especially for movies, but I don't need two of them unless my two-year-old gets the A/V enthusiast bug too early .

Audio Gear: Trinnov Altitude 32 (24 channel), NAD M27 amps (3)
Video: JVC RS600, Seymour 100" UF Screen, Lumagen Radiance Pro 4444 (coming soon)
Misc.: Oppo 103, Oppo 203 UHD player, JRiver
Speakers: PSB Imagine T3 LCR, Imagine T Wides and Side Surround 1, T2 Side Surrounds, Imagine XB rears, PSB CS1000 ceilings (6), HSU ULS-15 Mk 2 subs (4) - 11.4.6

Last edited by sdrucker; 02-26-2016 at 04:18 PM.
sdrucker is online now  
post #1693 of 3390 Old 02-26-2016, 04:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Unherdable's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 298
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 163 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wookii View Post
I'd like to read some feedback on this also - there is a distinct lack of actual user experiences on this thread in general, which for me is the most valuable resource on this forum. Perhaps there just aren't that many Altitudes out in the field yet, or perhaps those that have them are just enjoying them too much to find the time to post here? But any ongoing feedback and experiences any actual owner have, good or bad, is always most welcome so please post guys as, and when, you can.
My bad, I apologize for not expanding on my previous comments, having been an altitude owner for quite some time.

On the question of remapping, let's consider an extreme situation. Imagine you have 2 speakers, a left and a right, and they are placed 40 degrees apart. Can you imagine a "remapping" procedure that would virtually place them 60 degrees apart? No? Maybe doing some crazy phase stuff that makes them sound like they are 60 degrees apart? Would any sensible music lover do this? Would anyone believe it?

Ok so maybe too few speakers in this example. Let's add two rear speakers. Does that help? Hmmmm. I can't imagine that, can you? Add a center then. How on Earth could adding a center speaker help "remap" the left and right speaker to the perfect stereo image of 60 degrees?

And how does this remapping work anyway? Is there some model of the 3D soundfield that you can apply a 3D transformation to, like in 3D graphics, some 4x4 matrix transformation? Or maybe something simpler like assuming all the sources are on a sphere, and then mixing channels together in some interpolation scheme to mix them together somehow, with the bias given for the speaker that is closer? This isn't magic, ultimately there has to be some mathematical formula, some transformation of the channels that... mixes them together in some way as to effect a transformation. And that is the problem for me. The transformation has to mix channels.

Anyway.... the way I see it (and hear it) is that remapping may be interesting in a room with lots and lots of identical speakers arrayed in a much more regular spacing scheme in 3D space. But for me, it does not work. Based on what I hear, in my room. It doesn't work for me. I don't have lots and lots of identical speakers, I have 9.7.8. Even my ceilings are not identical, because the front pair are so close to the screen, that I chose something more directional than the others. My L and R are VERY wide, for home theatre. I used to have them at normal positions, but changed them to make them sound good to me, in my theatre, based on 2 channel music. My Lc and Rc now bisect the angle between the L and R, and they sound fabulous in Atmos tracks, you can really hear the objects moving across the screen in my very wide 25' room smoothly and with extreme precision. They are not the exact speaker as the L/R even though they share some same drivers. But do I want Lc and Rc to have some L and R in them too? Because the ideal speaker position is perfectly between them. So now I have a "fat" L and a "fat" R channel... Aw heck, why not some C as well? For me, in my room, it sounds better with remapping off. But this is why the Altitude is so amazing, you can choose what is best for your application.

And finally, the sceptic in me will make one observation that may irritate some: remapping makes use of all those zillions of speakers and amplification you spent an arm and a leg acquiring. So there is definitely an incentive (and especially from the guy who sold you all those nice high margin expensive stuff) to want everything to work awesomely at the same time. For me, I have found the real beauty of the Altitude thanks to the training Curt gave me: multiple presets. I can use the Lc/Rc as my L/R.... or I can use the L/R. I can use either pair as my 2 channel speakers, and I decide to use them as pure full-range, or with subs.... I can set up my subs as 7 separate subs, or I can group them in larger groups, or I can even specify which sub works with which speaker in any weighting I like, all in different presets. I can use any four of the 8 ceilings for the bed channels (or DTS:X), depending on how I am using the room. I can turn the surrounds off completely, and turn my ceilings into a height plus surround, for the times I have a full bar with 50 people in my room and don't want to have a surround speaker blaring in my ear. And... for the Atmos tracks, I can have all of the speakers working simultaneously. The power of the Altitude, and its 30 presets. Thirty presets. That's a lot of flexibility.

I'm so very close with the construction of my room (which some of you saw when just the front treatment was done), and will be posting photos and diagrams soon, together with the calibration measurements.
Unherdable is offline  
post #1694 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 08:57 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Ash Sharma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: TX
Posts: 1,587
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 589 Post(s)
Liked: 495
Henley,
Looks like I got ripped off :-(

Just Kidding.

Ash
Ash Sharma is offline  
post #1695 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 09:05 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 25,748
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1666 Post(s)
Liked: 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangcoma View Post
[COLOR="Red"]
But if only for native 2 ch source , i do suggest to off remapping function , and just let Left and Right to do there job !

Anyway , I am enjoying the remapping !

Hope this can help ! Thx !
Great set up!

Curious.. why 3 object channels across in a relatively narrow room vs 3-4 pairs of object channels accross the ceiling??

Congrats!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
thebland is online now  
post #1696 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Great set up!

Curious.. why 3 object channels across in a relatively narrow room vs 3-4 pairs of object channels accross the ceiling??

Congrats!
Hi , sorry , I don't understand your question ? Can u define it a bit ? Do u mean why I am using 4 pairs of ceiling speakers in this small room ? Thx !
tangcoma is offline  
post #1697 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 09:16 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 25,748
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1666 Post(s)
Liked: 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangcoma View Post
Hi , sorry , I don't understand your question ? Can u define it a bit ? Do u mean why I am using 4 pairs of ceiling speakers in this small room ? Thx !
I notice your height (or object channels) are spread 3 across the ceiling. Did you consider 4 pairs from front to back along the ceiling? Seems like pairs would've been adequate as your room appears narrow (~95" wide)? Correct?

Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2016-02-27 at 12.21.44 PM.png
Views:	92
Size:	704.4 KB
ID:	1282009  

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.

Last edited by thebland; 02-27-2016 at 09:23 AM.
thebland is online now  
post #1698 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 09:23 AM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
I notice your height (or object channels) are spread 3 across the ceiling. Did you consider 4 pairs from front to back along the ceiling? Seems like pairs would've been adequate as your room appears narrow (~95" wide)? Correct?

Thanks!
Yup ! It is only 95' wide ! Pretty small ! But I have tried 4 pair is better than 2 pair ! The sound moving is much more smooth than 2 pair ! And u are really can hear sound from front to back to left and right to middle ! The definition is higher !
tangcoma is offline  
post #1699 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 09:24 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 25,748
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1666 Post(s)
Liked: 1005
See note below: The room is narrow, seems like two would be fine? is the middle speaker a VOG? Thanks!

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2016-02-27 at 12.21.44 PM.png
Views:	529
Size:	704.4 KB
ID:	1282017  

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
thebland is online now  
post #1700 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 09:57 AM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
See note below: The room is narrow, seems like two would be fine? is the middle speaker a VOG? Thanks!

Oh , that is for Auro3D VOG and the Front middle one is for Auro3D Center height !
tangcoma is offline  
post #1701 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 10:41 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
cannga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Palos Verdes - Lakers Land
Posts: 2,822
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1507 Post(s)
Liked: 1386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post
Yes. In the simplest case, with mode set to Stereo playing back a two channel source, you can see in the Trinnov output meters that all 1. nine of my speakers are firing, albeit at very low levels. In effect, remapping is using every speaker to make the Left and Right sound as if each were a perfectly located speaker in 2. an ideal room (and that's with both the Left and Right already in the exact right physical locations to begin with.)
1. Thanks for sharing - this is interesting but somewhat puzzling. We are talking about remapping, and NOT room correction, right? If the stereo speakers are in perfect location, yet all nine speakers are firing, then I would think there is something wrong with the remapping algorithm, no? There is nothing to correct and firing all nine speakers would only adversely affect clarity of the stereo image.

2. What is the definition of an "ideal" room that Trinnov is trying to duplicate? Remapping is a function related to speaker position, nothing to do with the room, no? How does Trinnov know what's in your room to make speaker sound like a "perfectly located speaker in an ideal room"? (Please correct me if I am wrong, but if anything, this sounds like a discussion of room correction to me.)

Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound. (For CB IVa setup help, click HERE.)
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

Last edited by cannga; 02-27-2016 at 10:44 AM.
cannga is offline  
post #1702 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
blazar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 3,527
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 738 Post(s)
Liked: 537
My altitude is still running strong, I wish there were more GOOD movies to watch in atmos.

I still am enjoying the auromatic upmix for music.

Still using dolby upmix for all other movie soundtracks.

As soon as i get the control4 guy to come by the house, will try the c4 beta driver and provide some feedback on how well it works and what it is capable of. I hope they added the ability to send a wake-on-lan signal to turn the unit on.

Leaving the unit ON for me makes no sense since I use the 12v trigger to turn amps on. Huge heat and power waste to leave it on. I should probably move my amps 12v triggers to control4 instead.

I haven't tested 3d bluray exhaustively so I cant comment on the effectiveness of altitude of handling those signals. I did have a little trouble on one of my blu-ray 3d discs (using the latest oppo unit). I think it was TRon that I had issues with 3d passthru.

On the whole, sound quality is great and I have not felt the need to keep tweaking it with anything past what the algorithms accomplished.
blazar is offline  
post #1703 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 11:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
Brucemck2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 823
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 70 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
1. Thanks for sharing - this is interesting but somewhat puzzling. We are talking about remapping, and NOT room correction, right? If the stereo speakers are in perfect location, yet all nine speakers are firing, then I would think there is something wrong with the remapping algorithm, no? There is nothing to correct and firing all nine speakers would only adversely affect clarity of the stereo image.

2. What is the definition of an "ideal" room that Trinnov is trying to duplicate? Remapping is a function related to speaker position, nothing to do with the room, no? How does Trinnov know what's in your room to make speaker sound like a "perfectly located speaker in an ideal room"? (Please correct me if I am wrong, but if anything, this sounds like a discussion of room correction to me.)
Nothing wrong with the remapping algorithm. Even great speakers in the exact right locations interact with the room. Trinnov's room/speaker correction algorithms correct the timing, frequency, and phase response of each speaker. The remapping corrects the resulting spatial issues. The other speakers are firing at very, very, low levels, so you're not even aware they're firing unless you mute the mains.

Trinnov doesn't have to know what's "in your room" but only how your speakers are performing in your room. The math behind the correction schemes is sound (no pun intended) and the user interface makes it easy to play with the key parameters until you find the ones that suit you best.

Don't overthink it. It's a great set of tools for a common problem.
Brucemck2 is offline  
post #1704 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 07:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chrisreeves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 408 Post(s)
Liked: 290
Hey you guys - does Trinnov reduce the amount of physical diffusion needed in a room? I say this not as an Altitude owner (can't stomach the checkbook pain yet) but as a Sherwood R-972 owner. With Trinnov running I cannot physically locate with my ears any of my 7 speakers (still experimenting with Atmos with a Denon 7200) - they simply disappear into a gorgeous 360 degree soundfield.

Helping surround speakers to disappear has been a long-standing goal of using physical diffusers in channel based surround systems - yes? My diffusers never achieved what Trinnov did with the push of a button.

Since Trinnov often sends sounds designed for a particular channel through more than one speaker as part of its efforts to sculpt the soundfield it has been programmed to achieve - it is in effect "diffusing" sound which reaches your ears.

I'm not suggesting Trinnov processing can eliminate the need for absorption - but I am wondering if it severely reduces the need for physical diffuser panels. I have 6 diffusers of various types right now, and a couple more RPG skylines on the way - but I've started to question whether I need them given that Trinnov is working its magic.

Thoughts?

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
chrisreeves is offline  
post #1705 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 10:19 PM
yin
Member
 
yin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I`am having problems with updating the Software of my Trinnov Altitude 32-16. TRINOVA Software tells me that there is an upgrade, then I press the upgrade button, but nothing happens.
Can someone please tell me what is wrong with my configuration, what do I half to change to get it to update.
thanks
yin is offline  
post #1706 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 10:39 PM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by yin View Post
I`am having problems with updating the Software of my Trinnov Altitude 32-16. TRINOVA Software tells me that there is an upgrade, then I press the upgrade button, but nothing happens.
Can someone please tell me what is wrong with my configuration, what do I half to change to get it to update.
thanks
Hi , the auto update is still not operate yet ! So what u need to do , is contact support@trinnov.com !

The support team need your serial no. to activate the update process from there side ! And u have to turn the machine on and make sure internet connection is active !
tangcoma is offline  
post #1707 of 3390 Old 02-27-2016, 11:53 PM
yin
Member
 
yin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangcoma View Post
Hi , the auto update is still not operate yet ! So what u need to do , is contact support@trinnov.com !

The support team need your serial no. to activate the update process from there side ! And u have to turn the machine on and make sure internet connection is active !
Thanks,
I sent them my serial Nr.
when activated on their part will the future updates go automatically,or do I have to contact them overtime?
yin is offline  
post #1708 of 3390 Old 02-28-2016, 12:28 AM
Senior Member
 
tangcoma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 262
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by yin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangcoma View Post
Hi , the auto update is still not operate yet ! So what u need to do , is contact support@trinnov.com !

The support team need your serial no. to activate the update process from there side ! And u have to turn the machine on and make sure internet connection is active !
Thanks,
I sent them my serial Nr.
when activated on their part will the future updates go automatically,or do I have to contact them overtime?
I think in the near future , they will let us to do the auto update by ourself ! But now only way to do the update is send them a email !
tangcoma is offline  
post #1709 of 3390 Old 02-28-2016, 12:32 AM
yin
Member
 
yin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 15
well I only got a Email saying that they will be back on the 1 of march,this is not good support considering price one pays-the support should be better
yin is offline  
post #1710 of 3390 Old 02-28-2016, 05:10 PM
Member
 
Rhuarc86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 33
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by yin View Post
well I only got a Email saying that they will be back on the 1 of march,this is not good support considering price one pays-the support should be better
Really? Waiting 1 more day causing you to not be able to use your equipment? That's a pretty broad statement to make.
Rhuarc86 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off