Trinnov Altitude - Page 65 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1921 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 05:53 AM
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Though I have been pretty absent from here the past couple years due to personal/work changes, I thought I would take a moment to chime-in on this machine. I had the opportunity to finally install and tune one of these this previous weekend (a 24 channel unit with the Atmos/Auro card) and I have to say, I'm quite happy with what I've seen.

For those that may not have seen my previous thread regarding Trinnov (it's probably archived by now), I have been using Trinnov for about 6 years now on a regular basis (it's in our demo system inside ADA's Cinema Reference). So to see some minor changes to the software was interesting to me. Here are a couple of my take-aways from a long weekend with the Altitude:

1.) though only marginally different, the actual Optimizer software has become more intuitive and more efficient to use
2.) I initially thought that the UI used to "place" the loudspeakers in the room was merely window-dressing, but it does prove to be quite useful when you are going through the process.
3.) input selection could be a little quicker; this is slightly "laggy" when compared to more traditional processors.
4.) in the particular installation that I had over the weekend, I found myself wishing that I could assign multiple output signal "channels" to the same loudspeaker in the advanced speaker array setup screen. This is purely a scenario where knowing what I had done in the past using commercial DSP caused the desire to do the same using Trinnov. perhaps that is an ability that can be added later...

5.) my final desire (one I've asked for from Trinnov for 6 years): I want compressors and limiters for every output channel. This is purely as a means of loudspeaker/amplifier protection, ultimately you can work around the lack of these filters in the Trinnov system (I have) but I really like having those ultimate "brick wall" protections in place for high volume dynamics.

So, there you have it. The Altitude sounded precisely as I expected (the same as the Cinema Reference- since they share the output technology from Trinnov), the fit and finish is stellar!, the features built-in to the processor are by my estimation the best currently on offer in the market. And given price per-channel count, I'd have to say that this is the best value available today in home theater processors.

Please forgive the minor hijack from HDMI input board discussion. MDS made the changes they have to make for compliance, my personal guess is that the 4k/HDR etc. requires higher internal bandwidth and that is larger bus traces, larger chipset, etc. leaving room for only 7 inputs instead of 8. Everyone in the market has to use them for boards, so we're likely to see Lumagen, Datasat, Theta, etc move to 7/2 for their products as well.

thanks for allowing me the time.

back to our regularly scheduled programming....
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post #1922 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 06:13 AM
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I have the 8-8 version and the 3D codecs . .so you can do ATMOS/DTS:X on the 8-8.. i have a 5.1.2 system.

So the info that the 8-8 version can´t do 3D codes is wrong
So does the '8' indicate the number of possible audio output channels? In other words if I want 16 channels I would buy the '-16' and for 24 channels the '-24' etc?

Are the prices in the recent review indicative of what one would be expected to pay for one of these units?

I am looking forward to a fall HT re-build and would like to get a processor that can handle more then the current 11 channel limit of the mainstream AVR's.

Thanks in advance for any isight that you folks may provide.

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post #1923 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 06:41 AM
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Yes there is a 8-8, 8-16, 16-24 and 16-32 version.


The first number is: DCI Compliant AES3: DB25
The second number is: Max processing channels = outputs.


so my 8-8 has max 8-channels out...i have them as 5.1.2 but you can config the 8-channels in any way you like


and i can upgrade to the 8-16 channel version for the same price as the difference between a new 8-8 and a new 8-16

AMP: Trinnov 8-8, 4xProcella DA-05, CROWN CT-4150
Speakers: LCR Procella P610, Rears: Procella P5V, Hight: Procella P5V, Sub: Procella P10-Fp
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post #1924 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 07:44 AM
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Ahhh, I think I am beginning to understand... by the way you grouped the 2 model sets can I assume that if you want more than 16 channels out you should be starting at the 16-24 version or is your's too upgradable to this?

The reason I ask is that I would like to start my HT build at 9.1.6 which is the max for a 8-16 so I would have to decide going in what processor would be best.

Thanks!


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Originally Posted by jolt72 View Post
Yes there is a 8-8, 8-16, 16-24 and 16-32 version.


The first number is: DCI Compliant AES3: DB25
The second number is: Max processing channels = outputs.


so my 8-8 has max 8-channels out...i have them as 5.1.2 but you can config the 8-channels in any way you like


and i can upgrade to the 8-16 channel version for the same price as the difference between a new 8-8 and a new 8-16

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post #1925 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 08:37 AM
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You can uppgrade from 8-8 all the way upp to 16-32 without any problems.

If you buy the 8-16 now and want more channels later your dealer just can upgrade to the 24 or 32 channel version in your home.

The cost for the upgrade should be the same as the price difference between the models .

My 8-8 have all the 32 output connectors from start. . but i only have one internal 8ch card. . .when you upgrade they just ad more 8Ch cards. . up to the maximum of 4x8Ch cards= 32Ch
Could be something more or more small Changes but absolutly no problem to upgrade an 8-16 to 16-24/16-32

In the first piture on page 63 you can se my unit. . .when you upgrad they will stack cards to the left were the fan is....i posted a Picture earlyer in the thread of an 32Ch version
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Speakers: LCR Procella P610, Rears: Procella P5V, Hight: Procella P5V, Sub: Procella P10-Fp

Last edited by jolt72; 06-01-2016 at 08:55 AM.
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Theater is done (redone)! But the pics below are during the calibration.

11.6.8, Trinnov Altitude, QSC Q-SYS 250i Core, 24 channels of sound (inc active speakers), and a marathon 3 day calibration by Adam Pelz. Actually, 11.2.8 as 6 subs share two outputs. LCRs are biamped (active). Thank you Curt Hoyt for design help! Everything has fallen into place and it is the best sounding theater I've ever heard. The immersion is just off the charts - even in upmixes. It's simply amazing what all the extra speakers can do to the sound field. I thought 7.1.4 on the Datasat was really good but there is no substitute for more speakers. Adam's fine tuning of the active LCRs cleaned up the clarity and dialog. Just a lot of punch up front now.. I don't think there is any angle greater than 30 degrees between any speaker relative the the main listening position.

Peter... Thanks for introducing me to ribbons and AMTs. Just awesome, effortless, weighty sound!

All Altitude commands and feedbacks I have tried work great in iRule. The sonics are just incredible. Effortless - even at very high SPLs.

Sound is nothing short of incredible! For once, my friends and family can hear an improvement in an upgrade!!

Atmos is the star! Neural X is the star upmixer!


Everest in Dolby Atmos was the premiere movie. An outstanding sonic adventure!







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Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1927 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post
MDS made the changes they have to make for compliance, my personal guess is that the 4k/HDR etc. requires higher internal bandwidth and that is larger bus traces, larger chipset, etc. leaving room for only 7 inputs instead of 8. Everyone in the market has to use them for boards, so we're likely to see Lumagen, Datasat, Theta, etc move to 7/2 for their products as well.
I didn't realize so many used MDS. I would have thought the Lumagen was already set for full 4k/HDR compliance by now seeing as that's basically all their products are designed for i.e. video but like you mention if it's a MDS board they use then they would be at MDS's mercy there. I believe the large Lumagen's have 8 inputs and at least 2 outs but I thought there was more outs then just 2.

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[QUOTE=DanFrancis;44427617

4.) in the particular installation that I had over the weekend, I found myself wishing that I could assign multiple output signal "channels" to the same loudspeaker in the advanced speaker array setup screen. This is purely a scenario where knowing what I had done in the past using commercial DSP caused the desire to do the same using Trinnov. perhaps that is an ability that can be added later...





thanks for allowing me the time.

back to our regularly scheduled programming....[/QUOTE]

Nice to see you posting here again, Dan. What would this allow you to achieve (item 4)?

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post #1929 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Theater is done (redone)! But the pics below are during the calibration.

11.6.8, Trinnov Altitude, QSC Q-SYS 250i Core, 24 channels of sound (inc active speakers), and a marathon 3 day calibration by Adam Pelz. Actually, 11.2.8 as 6 subs share two outputs. LCRs are biamped (active). Thank you Curt Hoyt for design help! Everything has fallen into place and it is the best sounding theater I've ever heard. The immersion is just off the charts - even in upmixes. It's simply amazing what all the extra speakers can do to the sound field. I thought 7.1.4 on the Datasat was really good but there is no substitute for more speakers. Adam's fine tuning of the active LCRs cleaned up the clarity and dialog. Just a lot of punch up front now.. I don't think there is any angle greater than 30 degrees between any speaker relative the the main listening position.

Peter... Thanks for introducing me to ribbons and AMTs. Just awesome, effortless, weighty sound!

All Altitude commands and feedbacks I have tried work great in iRule. The sonics are just incredible. Effortless - even at very high SPLs.

Sound is nothing short of incredible! For once, my friends and family can hear an improvement in an upgrade!!

Atmos is the star! Neural X is the star upmixer!
Fantastic... a no compromise theater... you raised the bar again.
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post #1930 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 02:27 PM
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Looking great!
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post #1931 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragsk View Post
Selden Jolts post above mentions specifically that Input 1 and Output 2 are HDCP 2.2 enabled.

I understand your other points so either way its direct connection from the disc player to the PJ then!
However, if you own a Samsung UHD player, your only real choice is 4:4:4 chroma output... you need full bandwidth HDMI 2.0. You also need HDMI 2.0a for HDR enabled UHD Blu-ray discs.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
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post #1932 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Fantastic... a no compromise theater... you raised the bar again.

it's true. so many reasons to visit him - awesome theatre, fine wine, fast car. I've never seen so many speakers in one room. drool!

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post #1933 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post
However, if you own a Samsung UHD player, your only real choice is 4:4:4 chroma output... you need full bandwidth HDMI 2.0. You also need HDMI 2.0a for HDR enabled UHD Blu-ray discs.
I own the Panasonic. I have tried both chroma outputs and neither work when routed through the Trinnov. Directly connecting the Panasonic UHD to my Sony PJ works no problem and gives me an awesome 4k image.

I know about the HDR needing 2.0a.
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post #1934 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post
Though I have been pretty absent from here the past couple years due to personal/work changes, I thought I would take a moment to chime-in on this machine.......................................

thanks for allowing me the time.

back to our regularly scheduled programming....
Great to have you posting again Dan - hopefully you will have some time now to continue to make the valuable contributions you have always made to this forum.
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post #1935 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Nice to see you posting here again, Dan. What would this allow you to achieve (item 4)?


In the installation I had over the weekend, there are a pair of overhead loudspeakers directly over L,R . In a "standard" layout you would utilize them as Lh and Rh, but if you have no Ch, what do you do?

With the commercial DSPs I could utilize 6x2 or 6x4 mixers and pull info from LCR and Ls Rs into those loudspeakers to help spread the soundfield. It took some feathering, but was rather effective.

Given the limitations of the advanced speaker array setup utility in the Altitude; I'm forced to choose one or the other: Lh or L not both and certainly not the ability to mix C into it to raise the level of the front stage.

I look at a processor like the Altitude as a DSP replacement because of the significant processing power. It contains, but alas, there is only so much coding people can do to develop these and they are still not a panacea.

There is no free lunch, use DSP and an Altitude and you increase the latency to those channels- if chosen properly, it makes no audible difference.

Hope that helps explain the comment.

Dan


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post #1936 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
it's true. so many reasons to visit him - awesome theatre, fine wine, fast car. I've never seen so many speakers in one room. drool!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain View Post
Looking great!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Fantastic... a no compromise theater... you raised the bar again.

Thanks guys! It has been a long journey to get here. The Altitude this far seems to be the real deal: stable and sonically excellent.

I've got the wine and a fast car... But Ash has a fast car and even more speakers! .

I hope to have a meet in later summer. Come on up!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1937 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 07:05 PM
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Your theatre, Ash's and Art's have all been on my visit bucket list for ages!


I'm in the middle of a whole house reno right now. I'm taking the opportunity of making some updates to the "dungeon" and will likely put in some ceiling speakers (low profile, inside the boundary of the drywall). ATC doesn't make anything suitable that would match the rest of the speakers but I think Quested probably would make something suitable (I'll have to ask Peter). Just one more reason I'd like to hear the Questeds. I'm intrigued by your impression of the output capability compared to your previous horns. Quite an accomplishment for such reasonably sized speakers.


If I make it down to your place one day I'll be sure to bring a nice Canadian Icewine.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Thanks guys! It has been a long journey to get here. The Altitude this far seems to be the real deal: stable and sonically excellent.

I've got the wine and a fast car... But Ash has a fast car and even more speakers! .

I hope to have a meet in later summer. Come on up!
Roger Quested and I RSVPin'g.
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post #1939 of 3485 Old 06-01-2016, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post
Given the limitations of the advanced speaker array setup utility in the Altitude; I'm forced to choose one or the other: Lh or L not both and certainly not the ability to mix C into it to raise the level of the front stage.
That's odd; I have an older Optimizer and I'm using the matrix function to mix some signal from my C below the screen into the high-mounted L/R's to raise the center image.

However, I'm not using remapping because there's no 7.x.4 speaker setup and it would try to bring my Atmos heights down to the plane of the rest of the speakers; maybe matrixing and remapping are mutually exclusive.

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post #1940 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 12:05 AM
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That's odd; I have an older Optimizer and I'm using the matrix function to mix some signal from my C below the screen into the high-mounted L/R's to raise the center image.
This ability of mixing multiple channels into one speaker (in your case: L channel + C channel into L speaker, and same for R) is precisely the kind of flexibility I would like to have. For example: I was thinking of perceptually narrowing my Top Rears by matrixing BOTH to the VOG speaker when playing ATMOS tracks. According to @DanFrancis this is not possible with the current Altitude. What about the RS20i? Or do I have to resort to miniDSP in addition to one of those processors?

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post #1941 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 06:36 AM
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Maybe old news, but Trinnov are about to release their 8 channel power amplifier called the Amplitude. I am thinking about getting one of these so would appreciate any thoughts on it.

I am currently running 3 power amps in my system - an AB amps 3800 (3x800 watts) powering the LCR, AB Amps 6500 (6x500 watts) for the 4 surround speakers and a 5 Channel Marantz running 4 ceiling speakers.

I am thinking that the Trinnov could replace the two AB amplifiers - I use James Audio loudspeakers throughout my cinema and use 808BE's for my LCR which are pretty efficient. I am just still worried that I will miss the power of the AB amps. All thoughts greatly appreciated !
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post #1942 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 07:20 AM
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Your theatre, Ash's and Art's have all been on my visit bucket list for ages!


I'm in the middle of a whole house reno right now. I'm taking the opportunity of making some updates to the "dungeon" and will likely put in some ceiling speakers (low profile, inside the boundary of the drywall). ATC doesn't make anything suitable that would match the rest of the speakers but I think Quested probably would make something suitable (I'll have to ask Peter). Just one more reason I'd like to hear the Questeds. I'm intrigued by your impression of the output capability compared to your previous horns. Quite an accomplishment for such reasonably sized speakers.


If I make it down to your place one day I'll be sure to bring a nice Canadian Icewine.

Maybe SCM20PSL? ATC will do custom if you order enough.



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post #1943 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 11:41 AM
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Great to have you posting again Dan - hopefully you will have some time now to continue to make the valuable contributions you have always made to this forum.
Thank you for the kind words, hopefully I can continue to contribute intelligent and useful content to these discussions.
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post #1944 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by maikeldepotter View Post
This ability of mixing multiple channels into one speaker (in your case: L channel + C channel into L speaker, and same for R) is precisely the kind of flexibility I would like to have. For example: I was thinking of perceptually narrowing my Top Rears by matrixing BOTH to the VOG speaker when playing ATMOS tracks. According to @DanFrancis this is not possible with the current Altitude. What about the RS20i? Or do I have to resort to miniDSP in addition to one of those processors?
That input/output matrix appears to have been replaced by the advanced speaker array setup tool in the front-end UI for the Altitude. Ultimately, though, a DSP does it "better" in that you get to choose how much of each signal is mixed in. When you select channels in a On or Off manner as in a matrix; it's a bit of a crapshoot. I've used matrices before and ultimately they work the best in the form of a 6x8 or 8x8 mixer with faders.

This goes for both the Altitude and the Datasat. The Datasat does still utilize a form of a matrix for the input/output mapping.

Hopefully this helps explain a little better.
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post #1945 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Your theatre, Ash's and Art's have all been on my visit bucket list for ages!


I'm in the middle of a whole house reno right now. I'm taking the opportunity of making some updates to the "dungeon" and will likely put in some ceiling speakers (low profile, inside the boundary of the drywall). ATC doesn't make anything suitable that would match the rest of the speakers but I think Quested probably would make something suitable (I'll have to ask Peter). Just one more reason I'd like to hear the Questeds. I'm intrigued by your impression of the output capability compared to your previous horns. Quite an accomplishment for such reasonably sized speakers.


If I make it down to your place one day I'll be sure to bring a nice Canadian Icewine.
Thanks for the kind words. I am really liking the result - much more so than last years update.
Mill likely have a small gathering this summer for the AVS folks. You should come down.

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1946 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post
Thanks for the kind words. I am really liking the result - much more so than last years update.
Mill likely have a small gathering this summer for the AVS folks. You should come down.
Adam is super.... the calibrator is ever so more important in complex installs like this..
Gone are my days of tweaking such audio yourself.
And calibration is 80% science and 20% art.... and the art part makes it happen.
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post #1947 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 04:25 PM
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Your theatre, Ash's and Art's have all been on my visit bucket list for ages!


I'm in the middle of a whole house reno right now. I'm taking the opportunity of making some updates to the "dungeon" and will likely put in some ceiling speakers (low profile, inside the boundary of the drywall). ATC doesn't make anything suitable that would match the rest of the speakers but I think Quested probably would make something suitable (I'll have to ask Peter). Just one more reason I'd like to hear the Questeds. I'm intrigued by your impression of the output capability compared to your previous horns. Quite an accomplishment for such reasonably sized speakers.


If I make it down to your place one day I'll be sure to bring a nice Canadian Icewine.
Way too kind. I'm likely going to have a small meet for some AVS members... And Perhaps Peter and Roger Quested in late summer. Join us!!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1948 of 3485 Old 06-02-2016, 10:55 PM
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When you select channels in a On or Off manner as in a matrix; it's a bit of a crapshoot.
On mine you can mix in however much signal you want.

Noah
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post #1949 of 3485 Old 06-03-2016, 05:19 AM
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Got a new answer from Trinnov about HTPC 2.2 .


Units manufactured after September 2015 have a newer HTPC 2.2 compatible HDMI card

AMP: Trinnov 8-8, 4xProcella DA-05, CROWN CT-4150
Speakers: LCR Procella P610, Rears: Procella P5V, Hight: Procella P5V, Sub: Procella P10-Fp
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post #1950 of 3485 Old 06-03-2016, 05:26 AM
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On mine you can mix in however much signal you want.


On which screen? I don't remember seeing a screen that had level adjustments for the matrix- only a global level adjustment for input or output. Which tab(s) contain that magic- I could certainly put it to use.


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