New player coming for 2K DCI Cinema - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 109 Old 07-03-2014, 09:38 PM
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Craig,

Where and when in California can I see this avs modified version. I live in San Diego. thanks
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post #62 of 109 Old 07-11-2014, 11:13 AM
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Send me an email and I'll send you more information.

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post #63 of 109 Old 07-11-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
I am planning to get down to Florida this month to see the modified version. Contrast on the modified version is going to be much better than the stock version. Should be around 6,000:1.

This is getting into the good range and if it comes with enough light at the same time could well be a winner !


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post #64 of 109 Old 07-23-2014, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I will know more after this weekend. Flying down Friday to look at it.

Added
This projector is now ready for viewing. Have the first customer viewing set up for Friday at 4:30PM in Bradenton Florida. If people are interested in seeing this projector at that time or at a later date, let us know.
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post #65 of 109 Old 07-24-2014, 10:31 PM
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I'll be there saturday myself Mike, Hope to see you again.
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post #66 of 109 Old 07-25-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll be there saturday myself Mike, Hope to see you again.
Sorry, I did not know you were going to be here. My flight back is 10:00AM Saturday morning. Looks like we will just miss each other. Projector looks great. Blacks look good and the richness of the colors, really pop.

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post #67 of 109 Old 07-26-2014, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Saw the projector yesterday with Alan and kimg1453. The projector looked fantastic on DCI and BD material. Blacks were black, not gray, lots of punch to the image and plenty of brightness. The saturation of the colors really made the image pop. Looking forward to what kimg1453 has to say. He owns a Sim2 Super Lumis and is interested in this projector for high light output 3D and of course it's 2D ability.

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I am sitting in the Tampa airport waiting for my return flight.

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post #68 of 109 Old 07-26-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post
Saw the projector yesterday with Alan and kimg1453. The projector looked fantastic on DCI and BD material. Blacks were black, not gray, lots of punch to the image and plenty of brightness. The saturation of the colors really made the image pop. Looking forward to what kimg1453 has to say. He owns a Sim2 Super Lumis and is interested in this projector for high light output 3D and of course it's 2D ability.

Added
I am sitting in the Tampa airport waiting for my return flight.
I was at Alan's house yesterday with Mike Garrett to see the upcoming NEC 3chip laser projector. After seeing it, I'm convinced that lasers should be the future for lighting due to its stability and longevity. I am also in the DLP camp and like the look of the picture it produces over all other technologies.

Alan was using a 10ft wide 2.39 ratio screen for viewing with this projector. It was easily producing more than enough light in its lowest setting. Uniformity was excellent and colors really popped. I feel a very high quality lens is being used as the picture was very sharp at all points on the screen. What really impressed me was regardless as to the content being showing, whether using DCI material or straight Blu-ray, the picture was completely free of noise or any artifacts that I could see. It just produced a very clean and smooth image but very sharp at all times. Of course there was a slight softness to viewing Blu-ray content as compared to DCI server material. Black levels were more than adequate and were excellent in the lowest light setting. Alan indicated it was still a work in progress as this projector was only a little over half of the contrast ratio he expects it to obtain. The unit does produce significant fan noise, so it needs to be in a hush box or outside of the viewing space.

Anyone interested should arrange for a viewing to really get the fully impact of what this projector can do. Thank you Alan for having me over and I enjoyed meeting Mike as well. Hope this info helps as I'm not an expert by any means but I have a keen eye and a pretty good handle on what a good picture should look like.
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post #69 of 109 Old 07-26-2014, 11:18 AM
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How big is the chassis? One piece or two?

Thanks.
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post #70 of 109 Old 07-26-2014, 12:13 PM
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How big is the chassis? One piece or two?

Thanks.
thebland,

Alan or Mike would have need to give you the exact numbers but my guess is Approx 30"L x 20"W x 10"H. It is a one piece unit.
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post #71 of 109 Old 07-26-2014, 08:53 PM
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Okay Peter Saturday is over in 5 minutes down there, so what was you impression? Small screen (in this class) and still going to throw away more light to double on-off contrast ratio, so does it have enough output reserve, or was your initial thought it would require a pair for sufficient brightness correct?

According to Kim there was more than enough light, but how much would that be 500 nits?
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post #72 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 03:56 AM
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I have to admit I was a bit skeptical going in for 2 reasons the previous 3 visits to Alan's where he had a 4 letter word lcos projector , first without modification and then after modification, all I could say being polite was it's ok. And I would wax poetic to him about his need to pay attention to 4k fixed lenses to achieve maximum mtf. Also regarding the laser projector I have seen the nec three times and it seemed to go from excellent colors to blue and then more blue, so I thought there may have been a problem filtering blu light to achieve true colors. Well how wrong was I!!!!

This modafoca its a clear hit out of the ballpark, I knew rgb laser would kill xenon and not to mention the cretinous unacceptable uhp lamps that are BTW fitted in a certain projector aptly named in a four letter word. Enough stabs there.

Well it turns out that what Alan has achieved much to my surprise ( cause as of yesterday I knew I had all the answers- but then i didn't) Alan's intellectual property applied to this projector that was never on my serious contender list simply amazed me, id buy one in an instant.

2 key elements to Alans mod is that he has mastered the obscure dci TI color mapping software and the colors on this modafoca are best in class, with tremendous ansi contrast and despite compact optics a very sharp image (if now alan would remove the Dollar Store porthole glass - which is not needed as PJ is less than 22db) I would say this could achieve close to maximum mtf for that lens range (laser is of much higher mtf than xenon) its obvious to the eye, so this is a much safer option to RGB with an rgb laser like image.

The main reason to the visit: We took apart a Barco lens for Prometheus yesterday and Alan performed a mod and I could tell he's been doing this for years, his contrast mods in the light pipe and lens are weaponizing this single laser 3 chip projector in a way the Pantsy chicken little "no guts" cowardly cat head of dci japan for NEC should be embarrassed that such an incredible image has never been shown by his company (with a battalion of samurai engineers willing to lay down their lives at his beckon call ) and that one lone American in his basement, not only has vindicated his poorly represented thus-far projector, but has catapulted it performancewise to the range of the 4k CINERAMAX Barco imitators ( individuals who first saw a Barco DCI in my cedia booths and now represent the franchise under private label-despite one being kicked out personally by me for getting caught reverse engineering my then considered "impossible to accomplish/no one had been able to achieve" Blu-ray 3D for DCI black box replete rack suite.

He was busted "gawking whilst memorizing" my 3d suite. Exactly like when Paul Newman memorized the nuclear equations from the fooled East German scientist in the classic Hitchcock movie TORN CURTAIN. While the pendantish East German scientist ordered Paul Newman (upon realizing he was memorizing his formula and had no true knowledge to offer per se and- before calling for authorities) he exclaimed: "I forbid you to leave this room" , in juxtaposition I told this "intellectual parasite" (that has such following in the CEDIA crowd) to get the F out!"



But I digressed, to quote Marc Wielage's iconic 1979 phrase, all I can say is: take all those god damned UHP projectors AND DUMP THEN INTO THE BAY!

If he had any Japanese Honor the Director should commit Seppuku and accept his disgrace , but then again we all know he is too chicken, craven, faint-of-heart, dastardly, invertebrate, weakly, gutless , yellow belly* for that! This is a watershed moment for home cinema more important than the 9 inch crt PJ with faroudja was to NTSC (my claim). Ladies open your wallets.

BACKGROUND: * this character walked out of a meeting with me and left me holding my shop drawings and business plan, not because I was deploying a laser projector in a home, but because the projector did not have the regulatory fcc class b emissions for home use, so as to not to interfere with your neighbors cordless telephone!!???. HELLO? meantime his clients Runco and DPI have been selling to homes for decades, that is how he became immortalized in the anals of projection history chutzpah (or lack of it).
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post #73 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 05:32 AM
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Donald, This will do a 16 foot screen with decent 3d. It;s configurable though to the necessary room conditions.


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post #74 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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How big is the chassis? One piece or two?

Thanks.
One piece. I tried to attach a drawing, but the file was too big.

Depth of projector with out lens shroud, 846.9mm
Depth of projector with lens shroud, 1,042mm
Width of projector, 700mm
Height of projector, 326mm

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post #75 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 06:10 AM
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but even if it were too long for some reason, it can be mounted flat against wall shooting up into a mirror, so its flexible that way


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post #76 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 06:27 AM
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Great job Alan, looks like you have category killer projector!!!!
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post #77 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 12:33 PM
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Great to hear !!! Peter, I have a question ,did you like it ?


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post #78 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 12:46 PM
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but even if it were too long for some reason, it can be mounted flat against wall shooting up into a mirror, so its flexible that way
The felxibility of LASER projectors was demonstrated by Panasonic at ISE by mounting it it on a rotating pole rotating it around the center of the lens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...mzYl9lwQ#t=111

DPI was showing its (NEC? Hybrid) units in a half circel to show the same orientation flexibility.
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post #79 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 12:49 PM
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Great to hear !!! Peter, I have a question ,did you like it ?


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post #80 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 12:58 PM
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Well, that it isn't a Cineramax, Not a Barco, not... .

Great news though.
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post #81 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, that it isn't a Cineramax, Not a Barco, not... .

Great news though.
A good projector is a good projector.

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post #82 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 09:25 PM
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That would be a generalization, good projectors can be counted with one hand.

Indeed, The credit goes to Alan on this one, I call it as I see it.


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post #83 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 09:37 PM
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"As part of NEC’s Digital Cinema Projector Series, the NC1100L projector using a laser-light source delivers 2K DCI-compliant cinema quality, which translates to an image brightness of 14-ft-L (using a 1.8 gain screen) on screens up to 36ft./11m in DCI color."

1.8? Seems like some hot spots to me. What is the throw distance of this projector?

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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post #84 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 09:42 PM
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"As part of NEC’s Digital Cinema Projector Series, the NC1100L projector using a laser-light source delivers 2K DCI-compliant cinema quality, which translates to an image brightness of 14-ft-L (using a 1.8 gain screen) on screens up to 36ft./11m in DCI color."

1.8? Seems like some hot spots to me. What is the throw distance of this projector?
I would guess I was seeing a 2.4 to 1 roughly, but there are lenses. I saw it on a .8 gain so no hotspots.

The blu ray is always desaturated on cinema projectors, with the laser source and the ti gamma expansion blu ray looks almost like dci color, incredible. And if you are an absolute blacks sequential kind of guy, Alan can choke the crap out of it and still be spectacular.


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post #85 of 109 Old 07-27-2014, 10:03 PM
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But that would be at a very limited lightoutput, i wasn't refering to ten times that 14fL without reason, it was to be squeezed a lot more, and then there is 3D on a 3P projector. Sounds like Alan picked up some extra vitamin d in the sunshine state and came up something well thought out.

A few years ago i saw that dual led runco on a gain 2 screen it helped to make the image look non dull, unlike the 100" diagonal ultra short throw all-in-one led display 450 lumens tops, that looked crt like, in the poor brightness clouded sense. I have here a broken acrillic screen all white gain 3 and it shows the rgb lamps in a BV600s;-). For that one needs a torus, gain 13;-).
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post #86 of 109 Old 07-28-2014, 12:02 AM
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But I digressed, to quote Marc Wielage's iconic 1979 phrase, all I can say is: take all those god damned UHP projectors AND DUMP THEN INTO THE BAY!
Hey, I didn't say "goddamned!"

How well did the projector calibrate? I'm told there are still some spikey colorimetry issues with lasers on some projectors. I know Barco and Christie have struggled with them, as has Dolby. Red showed what was to be a low-cost $10,000 laser projector a couple of years ago, then it quietly kind of faded away -- the product release, not the light -- and they don't talk about it much now.

I suspect laser projectors are very, very difficult to make but if they can solve the basic design problems, it'll be a huge step, particularly in the 3D business. I personally really detest the 5fL low-brightness levels in theatrical 3D, and if they can solve that, it'd be a huge boost in the business -- no pun intended.
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post #87 of 109 Old 07-28-2014, 05:34 AM
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I would guess I was seeing a 2.4 to 1 roughly, but there are lenses. I saw it on a .8 gain so no hotspots.

The blu ray is always desaturated on cinema projectors, with the laser source and the ti gamma expansion blu ray looks almost like dci color, incredible. And if you are an absolute blacks sequential kind of guy, Alan can choke the crap out of it and still be spectacular.
I would be interested in seeing that. I was pointed to a overseas place that was hotroding laser units for smaller screens. Two problems came up, cheap lenses, not even the throw range i needed, 2nd, Spectra made them a fibber on there stated light output. So i'm back to searching. I want 16/17FL not 9/8FL, that reminds me of CRT.

I think the biggest problem with alternative content on dci units is the major difference between jpeg2000 standards and disk mpeg2/4, MKV and a host of others. The only way i have gotten good results is to disconnect the cinema server from the projector, unplug the ethernet, power the projector all the way down, use HDMI to DVI connection, turn the player on, wait for it to be operational, then power on the projector, and magic, decent picture. But say what you will, Blu-Ray looks like crap on screens over 20 feet. However, Blu-Ray thru a HTPC running xbmc and scaling to 2k looks pretty good, not DCP good, but close. But, rec709 does no justice to DCI 2/4K.

Now if the audio was that simple, i would have more hair on my head. Alternative content is being asked for more and more.

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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post #88 of 109 Old 07-28-2014, 09:44 AM
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How big is the chassis? One piece or two?

Thanks.

Jeff, send me an email and I'll send you the specification sheet with dimensions, lenses available etc.

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post #89 of 109 Old 07-28-2014, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
. However, Blu-Ray thru a HTPC running xbmc and scaling to 2k looks pretty good, not DCP good, but close. But, rec709 does no justice to DCI 2/4K.

Why does scaling 1080x1920 to 1080x2048 look so much better.


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Last edited by Art Sonneborn; 07-28-2014 at 06:15 PM.
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post #90 of 109 Old 07-28-2014, 06:22 PM
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Why does scaling 1080x1920 to 1080x2048 look so much better.


Art
It makes a lot more sharper and cleaner picture on larger screens. I have talked to some who have up-scaled 1080P to 4K on various DCI projectors. And got some mixed views, nothing great was what i came away with. Artifact heavy was how one described it.

On a large screen, up-scaled 1080x1920 to 1080x2048 adds enough pixels that it makes for better viewing, without artifacts. I don't know exactly why, but it does work very well.

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.
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