Gravity - did you notice the "overhead flies" sequence? Wow - stunning sound engineering and a worthy test of our "ultra" systems! - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:05 AM
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Peter seems to be on top of it.

Looks like there are going to be "Dolby Atmos modules" and "Dolby Atmos enabled speakers" to take care of height speakers.

The Atmos modules are designed to be placed on top of left right speakers if necessary. Looks like there will also be Atmos enabled LR speakers that will have the separate height drivers built in and be driven by dedicated amp channels.

So much for physical seperation....

http://www.twice.com/news/blu-raydvd...due-year/45750
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post #272 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
So does this mean that the microphone needed for these Atmos AVRs/processors to measure your room will need to be more like the multi headed unit that Trinnov uses?
Only IF they're getting speaker location info using a single mic placement. Some manufacturers might be using other methods (manual entry, move the mic around, etc).

Sanjay
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post #273 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Mike B. is doing an Atmos Calibration in Michigan next week, I will ask him how he plugs in the speaker xyz coordinates in the Dolby dashboard. Im pretty sure it is not a three prong microphone. It is probably more of a manual procedurebut this is for a CP-850 cinema processor.
Where in Michigan Peter?
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post #274 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Mike B. is doing an Atmos Calibration in Michigan next week, I will ask him how he plugs in the speaker xyz coordinates in the Dolby dashboard. Im pretty sure it is not a three prong microphone. It is probably more of a manual procedurebut this is for a CP-850 cinema processor.
In a theater? In my neck of the woods?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #275 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:07 AM
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The consumer version of Dolby Atmos officially announced:

http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-...ing-room-near/

Content coming this fall via streaming and Blu-ray (you won't need a new player).

Sanjay
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post #276 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
The consumer version of Dolby Atmos officially announced:

http://blog.dolby.com/2014/06/dolby-...ing-room-near/

Content coming this fall via streaming and Blu-ray (you won't need a new player).
Looks like it's scalable with a minimum of 7 channels. LR speakers with heights built into the same box too.
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post #277 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Where in Michigan Peter?
He told me before going to cineeurope in Barcelona, and has had a plateful, could even be in Ohio CAN'T REMEMBER, He needs to get back to me on the universal laser retrofit modules, so when he does i'll ask if observers are possible.K Jeff?
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post #278 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:43 AM
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Datasat board meeting tomorrow. Guess whats on the plate? Auro but also.......
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post #279 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by b curry View Post
Looks like it's scalable with a minimum of 7 channels.
Atmos should work with fewer than 7 channels (soundbar or 2 TV speakers).

For folks outside the $20K section of this forum, 7 speakers is a good starting point: 3 front, 2 surrounds, 2 heights. Will let you separate sounds in front of you vs sounds around you vs sounds above you.
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LR speakers with heights built into the same box too.
Most consumers aren't going to want to make holes in their ceilings, so get ready for the loudspeaker industry to get creative with virtual height speakers (how to make it appear that sounds are coming from above you without physically placing speakers above you).

Sanjay
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post #280 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Datasat board meeting tomorrow. Guess whats on the plate? Auro but also.......
Well if you don't have to sign a NDA then please spill the beans.
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post #281 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Well if you don't have to sign a NDA then please spill the beans.
I can only comment on my initiative to become part of the agenda.
Only to make sure that Dolby don't do something nearsighted like capping the number of speakers at home, and explaining what the current efforts are to use up 24 channels or ganging up rs-20is for more.

So these exhibits will be passed around:



and quested atmos 140+db lineup for 2015 (leak) Lt-10 s , Lt8A miniAMT

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post #282 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I can only comment on my initiative to become part of the agenda.
Only to make sure that Dolby don't do something nearsighted like capping the number of speakers at home, and explaining what the current efforts are to use up 24 channels or ganging up rs-20is for more.

So these exhibits will be passed around:



and quested atmos 140+db lineup for 2015 (leak) Lt-10 s , Lt8A miniAMT
Thanks! I really hope we get to see Atmos on the rs20i with at least a few side channels and rears, heights above all and at least 2-4 ceiling speakers.

Waiting on the 8 channel expansion card for the rs20i. I think in my 7m x 3m x 2.56m room 24 channels will be plenty.
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post #283 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 09:21 AM
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So in that example are the only height speakers above the fronts, with only ceiling speakers above the rear area? No heights directly above the surrounds?
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post #284 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 09:27 AM
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I think we are going to see new LCR and surround speakers with a second speaker built in that aims towards the ceiling so as to get the effect of a height speaker but from one box.

Did Dolby Atmos publish home speaker set up guides?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #285 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Atmos should work with fewer than 7 channels (soundbar or 2 TV speakers).

For folks outside the $20K section of this forum, 7 speakers is a good starting point: 3 front, 2 surrounds, 2 heights. Will let you separate sounds in front of you vs sounds around you vs sounds above you. Most consumers aren't going to want to make holes in their ceilings, so get ready for the loudspeaker industry to get creative with virtual height speakers (how to make it appear that sounds are coming from above you without physically placing speakers above you).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I can only comment on my initiative to become part of the agenda.
Only to make sure that Dolby don't do something nearsighted like capping the number of speakers at home, and explaining what the current efforts are to use up 24 channels or ganging up rs-20is for more.

So these exhibits will be passed around:



and quested atmos 140+db lineup for 2015 (leak) Lt-10 s , Lt8A miniAMT
Do either of you, or indeed anyone, know if there will be Atmos upmixing like Auro or will it be purely for native content?
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post #286 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
Do either of you, or indeed anyone, know if there will be Atmos upmixing like Auro or will it be purely for native content?
Atmos is encode/decode technology, not surround processing. During mixing, sounds are assigned x,y,z coordinates. Upon playback, it tries to render those sounds to the intended locations using whatever speakers you have.

However, with Dolby promoting newer speaker layouts, they might introduce new surround processing to upmix legacy sources.

It's like how Auro3D is decoding for Auro-encoded sources and Auromatic is surround processing for legacy content.

Sanjay
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post #287 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Atmos is encode/decode technology, not surround processing. During mixing, sounds are assigned x,y,z coordinates. Upon playback, it tries to render those sounds to the intended locations using whatever speakers you have.

However, with Dolby promoting newer speaker layouts, they might introduce new surround processing to upmix legacy sources.

It's like how Auro3D is decoding for Auro-encoded sources and Auromatic is surround processing for legacy content.
Thanks Sanjay, I thought that was the case.
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post #288 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 11:11 AM
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Hmmm. So many speaker configs. I'm going to have LCRs and heights behind the screen but to hedge, will prep front ceiling during my build out for mounting brackets in soffit at front of screen to try (if need be). Interesting times!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #289 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Atmos is encode/decode technology, not surround processing. During mixing, sounds are assigned x,y,z coordinates. Upon playback, it tries to render those sounds to the intended locations using whatever speakers you have.

However, with Dolby promoting newer speaker layouts, they might introduce new surround processing to upmix legacy sources.

It's like how Auro3D is decoding for Auro-encoded sources and Auromatic is surround processing for legacy content.
I actually up mixed avatar at the Dolby booth on the cp850 2 showeasts ago.

It works although the 16 channel Dts uhd up mixer at cinemacon was a trip.
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post #290 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I actually up mixed avatar at the Dolby booth on the cp850 2 showeasts ago.
I had dinner with Elvis and JFK at the same show.

Sanjay
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post #291 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 11:51 AM
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Genius + Sense of humour to boot, Sanjay you are quite a catch.

I mean I picked up avatar and they played it you could even take center channel and joystick it around. Have pics of people using real time up converter built into cp850 and mixer console.

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post #292 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
... Neo:X is extracting info that is common to the front and surround-back channels.
Interesting, but I don't get the logic of why ft-bk commonality means something is high.

What if it were footsteps of someone walking from the back of the room to the front? When right in the middle, presumably the signal would be the same for ft/bk.

Noah
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post #293 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
No, they're not extracting height info.

PLIIz is extracting decorrelated (out of phase) info from the L/R surround channels and Neo:X is extracting info that is common to the front and surround-back channels.

Auro3D can decode height information that has been encoded in an Auro soundtrack. But the company's blind upmixer, Auromatic, does not extract height information.

Trinnov re-mapping can use height speakers to make the soundstage image at the proper height, but it is not extracting overhead height information.
Did I understand correctly, that this means Dolby PLII Z, despite of the suggestive Z dimension notation, is not extracting height information per se?

I looked up Dolby Pro Logic IIz web site, and that seems to be the case: http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/...logic-iiz.html "Introduces front height channels for more spacious surround sound."
They talk about height "channels", not height info, and the result is spacious surround sound, nothing to do with height. Tricky use of the language!

Regards, Can
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Last edited by cannga; 06-23-2014 at 04:46 PM.
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post #294 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 04:42 PM
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Did I understand correctly, that this measn Dolby PLII Z, despite of the suggestive Z dimension notation, is not extracting height information per se?
Correct. Except for three Neo:X encoded Blu-rays, there are no soundtracks with height information. So how can any of those processing modes extract "height" info when there's none there? Extracting something and sending it to speakers placed high up might be a pleasant effect (I like PLIIz), but that doesn't make it height information.

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post #295 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Correct. Except for three Neo:X encoded Blu-rays, there are no soundtracks with height information. So how can any of those processing modes extract "height" info when there's none there? Extracting something and sending it to speakers placed high up might be a pleasant effect (I like PLIIz), but that doesn't make it height information.
Got it. So:

1. Neo:X encoded Bluray: has height info.
2. Neo:X up-processing of non Neo:X encoded Bluray: no height info, just like PL IIz.

Is there such a thing as a PL IIz encoded Bluray that contains height info? Thanks.

Regards, Can
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post #296 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 04:56 PM
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^^^ Correct. And yes, there are no PLIIz encoded BDs.

Sanjay
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post #297 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Correct. Except for three Neo:X encoded Blu-rays, there are no soundtracks with height information. So how can any of those processing modes extract "height" info when there's none there? Extracting something and sending it to speakers placed high up might be a pleasant effect (I like PLIIz), but that doesn't make it height information.
I swear about the Trinnov height extraction on the above mentioned tracks. A spectacular effect.
If the master was made in atmos or AURO there are a few million dollars of height content in the mix that will play on many height channel variants, including the steeredless hafler circuit between a front and a back. There is no other place for it to play in Trinnov automatic Neo x. And yes atmos has an up converter for hdmi but not for the 7.1 aes cinema inputs and yes on some shows you can pick a disc and check it out. I will scour for those pics.
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post #298 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
So in that example are the only height speakers above the fronts, with only ceiling speakers above the rear area? No heights directly above the surrounds?
which example the 30 speaker 3d is for cp-850 has 2 heights 2 wides 4 sides 2 rear and 2 rear heights that wouls be moved higher plus 4 ceilings.


the diagram drawn by Roger Q (he is the one doing those type line drawings) is for a 24 channel processor but i still end up with 26 so more analysis to do.

there is 3 surrounds perside, 2 surrounds, 2 heights front, 2 wides front, lsub csub rsub (quested does this alot but xov er in amp so no extra overhead) and .1 sub and then two ceilings and two rear heights on the fascia of hushbox flanking projector portholes.
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
2. Neo:X up-processing of non Neo:X encoded Bluray: no height info, just like PL IIz.
Only in theory I have proposed the forum to experiment with atmos and auro downmixes you will be BLOWN AWAY!
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post #300 of 594 Old 06-23-2014, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Interesting, but I don't get the logic of why ft-bk commonality means something is high.

What if it were footsteps of someone walking from the back of the room to the front? When right in the middle, presumably the signal would be the same for ft/bk.
It depends if its in phase or not.
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