Gravity - did you notice the "overhead flies" sequence? Wow - stunning sound engineering and a worthy test of our "ultra" systems! - Page 11 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) > Gravity - did you notice the "overhead flies" sequence? Wow - stunning sound engineering and a worthy test of our "ultra" systems!
thebland's Avatar thebland 08:38 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Only in theory I have proposed the forum to experiment with atmos and auro downmixes you will be BLOWN AWAY!
As a Theta owner, Cannga (nor any Theta owner) will never have a way to try anything for than 7 channel. This is the old Theta roose that if the Theta can't do it, it isn't worth having... (couldn't resist).

sdurani's Avatar sdurani 08:40 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
If the master was made in atmos or AURO there are a few million dollars of height content in the mix that will play on many height channel variants, including the steeredless hafler circuit between a front and a back.
No. To hear the few million dollars worth of height content in the mix, you would need the Atmos or Auro encoded studio master AND an Atmos or Auro decoder, NOT a Hafler circuit between the front and back speakers.

Arbitrary sounds sent to speakers above you is not the same as extracting encoded height content.
cannga's Avatar cannga 09:05 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post
As a Theta owner, Cannga (nor any Theta owner) will never have a way to try anything for than 7 channel. This is the old Theta roose that if the Theta can't do it, it isn't worth having... (couldn't resist).

Jeff, as the thread starter, and therefore dictator :-), I reserve the right to kindly ask you keep the noise down please. People read this thread for certain interesting information, from certain professionals (not me), not the above non-sense. Yeah trading back and forth is fun occasionally and I am guilty with all postings about my hobbies, but, really, Theta and you is about the most boring topic; not here Jeff.

Please start your own thread, if you please, and in it you could joke and update progress of your theater. You could of course do whatever you like, but I am asking this as a courtesy. No hard feeling, ok?
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 09:10 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
No. To hear the few million dollars worth of height content in the mix, you would need the Atmos or Auro encoded studio master AND an Atmos or Auro decoder, NOT a Hafler circuit between the front and back speakers.

Arbitrary sounds sent to speakers above you is not the same as extracting encoded height content.
Agreed but has potential to be the next best thing all I am encouraging is some healthy experimentation by pressing a remote -lest my rule breaking produce valuable insight LIKE THE HEIGHT channel that everyone said would not work..... and today got well vindicated. My maxim that height channel elevation was immaterial is no more valid that on high order mastered bds enjoyable height info can be extracted by dievrse means.
noah katz's Avatar noah katz 09:42 PM 06-23-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
I swear about the Trinnov height extraction on the above mentioned tracks. A spectacular effect.
Peter, just because the height effect is strong to sounds like it was encoded/extracted in no way means that it was, i.e. the oft-mentioned example of the footsteps coming from the deck above in Master and Commander.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Interesting, but I don't get the logic of why ft-bk commonality means something is high.

What if it were footsteps of someone walking from the back of the room to the front? When right in the middle, presumably the signal would be the same for ft/bk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
It depends if its in phase or not.
If the intent was to phantom image something panning from ft-bk, they would be in phase.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 09:57 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Peter, just because the height effect is strong to sounds like it was encoded/extracted in no way means that it was, i.e. the oft-mentioned example of the footsteps coming from the deck above in Master and Commander.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
Interesting, but I don't get the logic of why ft-bk commonality means something is high.

What if it were footsteps of someone walking from the back of the room to the front? When right in the middle, presumably the signal would be the same for ft/bk.

If the intent was to phantom image something panning from ft-bk, they would be in phase.
Hi Noah, Yes I should have used different wording,How about OHX?

I have several theories and I think it depends exactly where the panning originates in the front or arrives to, in order for these Outlaw Height eXtractions to occur, too complex and speculative to deploy time now as I am swamped and should be gathering Atmos rollout intel instead. but since I have you here can you explain some of the concepts on the glassless 3d projection system being proposed by MIT.

Entire new terms like LIGHT FIELD PROJECTOR and ANGLE EXPANDING SCREEN


I really could use you skills in understanding this technology.TIA. Sanjay you are welcomed to explain as well.
noah katz's Avatar noah katz 10:35 AM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Hi Noah, Yes I should have used different wording,How about OHX?
How about Height Objects Assimilated eXtremely?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
[/B][/COLOR] but since I have you here can you explain some of the concepts on the glassless 3d projection system being proposed by MIT.
You overestimate me, but no matter, as I don't like 3D and don't follow the tech; makes me feel like I'm trapped in a dimly lit box with flat cardboard cutouts.
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk 03:32 PM 06-24-2014
A quick one for Sanjay or Peter or anyone else well versed with Atmos and object rendering.

I'm taking part in a conversation on another forum and I'm trying to explain that di / bipoles will never work well for Atmos due to the fact of the placement of drivers being non direct meaning they can't ever place the object at the correct coordinates.

And similarly with tripoles, whilst there is direct firing drivers on tripoles enabling for correct placement of objects the sound will be muddied by essentially the same sounds used to create that object but from the side firing drivers. I likened it to listening to direct firing speakers in a concrete untreated room. You'll get the direct sound ( the object ) shortly followed by the wall reflections or in this case the sound from the side drivers on the tripoles?

I'm i correct in my thinking?
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 04:27 PM 06-24-2014
Multipole speakers were helpful when trying to create envelopment using only 2 surround speakers, because they sprayed sound in different directions.

Another way to get that envelopment, without resorting to speakers that are diffuse themselves, is to use additional speakers. In the case of Atmos or Auro, that can mean up to 4 surrounds and 4-6 heights.

Once you have that wrap-around envelopment via additional speakers, it is much easier to hear directionality with monopole speakers than diffuse dipole/bipole speakers.
cannga's Avatar cannga 07:50 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Multipole speakers were helpful when trying to create envelopment using only 2 surround speakers, because they sprayed sound in different directions.

Another way to get that envelopment, without resorting to speakers that are diffuse themselves, is to use additional speakers. In the case of Atmos or Auro, that can mean up to 4 surrounds and 4-6 heights.

Once you have that wrap-around envelopment via additional speakers, it is much easier to hear directionality with monopole speakers than diffuse dipole/bipole speakers.

Sanjay, would it be correct to say dipole would be "better" for spaciousness, such as for example interior hum of a space ship, and monopole would be better for specific imaging, such as a gun goes off in the right front corner?

The idea of putting a speaker in a specific new location, then makes it sound like it's not there (dipole), has always somewhat puzzled me.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 08:06 PM 06-24-2014
Once you go past 2 surround speakers, I think dipoles are a solution looking for a problem. 4 surrounds will give you wrap-around envelopment, so you don't need to sit in the nulls of dipole speakers as they spray sound towards your front and back walls. Spraying sound all over the place doesn't make them more spacious, just blurry.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 09:55 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Once you go past 2 surround speakers, I think dipoles are a solution looking for a problem. 4 surrounds will give you wrap-around envelopment, so you don't need to sit in the nulls of dipole speakers as they spray sound towards your front and back walls. Spraying sound all over the place doesn't make them more spacious, just blurry.
Bingo!! 100% in agreement.

There is talk of front heights that ricochet in ceiling though for home atmos jr.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 09:56 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Another way to get that envelopment, without resorting to speakers that are diffuse themselves, is to use additional speakers. In the case of Atmos or Auro, that can mean up to 4 surrounds and 4-6 heights.

Once you have that wrap-around envelopment via additional speakers, it is much easier to hear directionality with monopole speakers than diffuse dipole/bipole speakers.
Like Moscow!Agreed!
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 10:03 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by djnickuk View Post
A quick one for Sanjay or Peter or anyone else well versed with Atmos and object rendering.

I'm taking part in a conversation on another forum and I'm trying to explain that di / bipoles will never work well for Atmos due to the fact of the placement of drivers being non direct meaning they can't ever place the object at the correct coordinates.

And similarly with tripoles, whilst there is direct firing drivers on tripoles enabling for correct placement of objects the sound will be muddied by essentially the same sounds used to create that object but from the side firing drivers. I likened it to listening to direct firing speakers in a concrete untreated room. You'll get the direct sound ( the object ) shortly followed by the wall reflections or in this case the sound from the side drivers on the tripoles?

I'm i correct in my thinking?
we all concur never dipoles or tripoles.

A torus anecdote we used the JBL synthesis one big dipoles 4 feet from back wall in Miami rapper Penthouse now for sale, but back in 93, with the torus screen the front lobe hit the torus and came out as center channel whilst the rear lobe of the speaker had 3 rgb abfusers ceiling and 2 sides in trapezoid arrangement open down and back 1.5meter by 2 wide opening which opened up to a cutom diffuser on back It sounded incredible on only the backwave horn . Point being to enhance the surround some diffusion works wonders . Instead of dipoles.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 10:06 PM 06-24-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post
How about Height Objects Assimilated eXtremely?

OK!

You overestimate me, but no matter, as I don't like 3D and don't follow the tech; makes me feel like I'm trapped in a dimly lit box with flat cardboard cutouts.
There is definetely a HFR Hobbit 13ft lambert 6p laser 40% efficient vs 7% efficient demo in your future, the most realism you will ever experience.

Add to your bucket list
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 03:30 AM 06-25-2014
NEWSFLASH JEFF THE BLAND'S QUESTED DOZEN and amps CLEARED USA CUSTOMS 5 HOURS AGO. The future unravels as we sit.

THE ATMOS QUESTED REVOLUTION hits AMERICA!

iTS xMAS dAY AT jEFFS TODAY. congratulations.....
djnickuk's Avatar djnickuk 04:03 AM 06-25-2014
Thanks chaps.
thebland's Avatar thebland 06:02 PM 06-25-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
NEWSFLASH JEFF THE BLAND'S QUESTED DOZEN and amps CLEARED USA CUSTOMS 5 HOURS AGO. The future unravels as we sit.

THE ATMOS QUESTED REVOLUTION hits AMERICA!

iTS xMAS dAY AT jEFFS TODAY. congratulations.....
The speakers and amplifiers are here!

Thanks Peter!
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 02:18 PM 06-26-2014
When attempting to set up a 9 channel "bed" for either Auro or Atmos, is any special attention paid to the setup of the front "wide" speakers? I do not have these in my current 7.1 setup and am thinking about adding them. Since they would be on the wall firing sideways into the theater well in front of the listeners, or even in a soffit like my current sides and surround are, is selecting a speaker with extremely good off axis response of greater importance since basically no listener will be anywhere close to on axis? Or should some kind of angling be applied to those speakers (even if they are on a wall and hopefully behind fabric)?
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 03:34 PM 06-26-2014
In theaters when they use 3 start angles on the corner 30 degree, less angle second and perpendicular on the third one (so mostly angled) , big issue as well for me as the wall to wall screen swings and I can;t have speaker corners surfacing.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 04:27 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
When attempting to set up a 9 channel "bed" for either Auro or Atmos, is any special attention paid to the setup of the front "wide" speakers?
I don't think the current implementations of Auro or Atmos use wide speakers, maxing out at 7 speakers for the base level (3 fronts, 2 sides, 2 rears).
sipester's Avatar sipester 05:32 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I don't think the current implementations of Auro or Atmos use wide speakers, maxing out at 7 speakers for the base level (3 fronts, 2 sides, 2 rears).
Is it only Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo X that use wides? I wonder if those two will have any use once Auro and Atmos are in the market.
Billybobjimbob's Avatar Billybobjimbob 05:37 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post
Is it only Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo X that use wides? I wonder if those two will have any use once Auro and Atmos are in the market.
DSX is just an up mixing algorithm, and DTS NEO X whilst an up mixing algorithm had Expendables 2 as a native disc.

Movies with Atmos soundtracks will be available before the end of the year..Auro, there's no release date for native material and as such, it merely serves as an up mixing algorithm.
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 05:39 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post
Is it only Audyssey DSX and DTS Neo X that use wides?
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post
I wonder if those two will have any use once Auro and Atmos are in the market.
Auro already brings their own upmixer to the party and Dolby might too. But if people prefer the results with DSX or Neo, then they will continue to use those surround processing modes.
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 08:09 PM 06-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I don't think the current implementations of Auro or Atmos use wide speakers, maxing out at 7 speakers for the base level (3 fronts, 2 sides, 2 rears).
I think one of the Atmos examples on the Onkyo Atmos site showed wides. Of course that may not mean anything as far as what is supported...they could be just throwing generic stuff up on the site.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 06:31 AM 06-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post
I think one of the Atmos examples on the Onkyo Atmos site showed wides. Of course that may not mean anything as far as what is supported...they could be just throwing generic stuff up on the site.
Not wides, sides.

Attached: Onkyo Atmos.jpg (74.3 KB) 
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 06:39 AM 06-27-2014
I was referencing this picture.

http://res.cloudinary.com/hrscywv4p/...rx7j7q9ia0.jpg

Dolby Atmos Configuration Options with an 11 Channel Receiver
7.1.4 Configuration - 7.1 layout with two pair in-ceiling height speakers
7.1.4 Configuration - 7.1 layout including Dolby Atmos-enabled front and surround speakers or add-on speaker modules
9.1.2 Configuration - 9.1 layout with one pair in-ceiling height speakers
Attached: atmost wides.jpg (38.5 KB) 
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 06:41 AM 06-27-2014





Notice the above are not widths but the left rights like in Moscow the added pair is center fills recommended by atmos no matter what and not just SDDS.

And people had asked about the xyz speker plugin in Atmos Cp-850 processor.

It is done manually with a laser meter or autocad 3d as built print report (maybe data merge). and entered in below order in atmos designer program.



Attached: atmos array.PNG (116.1 KB)  Atmos designer sequence.PNG (64.4 KB)  screen width channels.PNG (30.4 KB)  off screen width channels one.PNG (708.0 KB) 
hifiaudio2's Avatar hifiaudio2 06:47 AM 06-27-2014
Ok cool, thanks. So those front sides would be angled toward the listeners a bit. I guess any anomalies introduced into the sound because of the angled side wall proximity would be eliminated in EQ.
CINERAMAX's Avatar CINERAMAX 06:51 AM 06-27-2014
I heard the 3d mix personaly invading my space around the head and through my gut at the Atmos Van Nuys room. I have not been able to hear that in cinemas with lesser speaker counts, that is why I am riled up by the compromise that will take place with these limited japanese systems.
Above. I know it will sound 3d but not wrap around your head like a system with this many speakers offers in this enhanced resolution that I describe with my trademarks to describe: Personal Space Invasion and sonic pirouettes tm.





That is why important our proposed HOME ATMOS PREMIERE SYSTEMS initiative be looked into. As it will not only preserve the xyz high resolution imaging resolvability but provide clean transparent sound with headroom of +30 db.

THIS IS NOT ADVERTISING- DON'T BUY FROM CRAZY CINERAMAX. But let us save our world as it needs to be.

WE NEED maximum resolvability (with sonic pirouettes personally invading your space) XYZ and for that you need 24 channels.



Attached: Dolby-Atmos-Van-Nuys-Surround-Array.jpg (925.5 KB)  dolby room.jpg (122.0 KB)  ae-questedlayout-fin.jpg (406.5 KB)  ae-th901.jpg (368.2 KB) 
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