Gravity - did you notice the "overhead flies" sequence? Wow - stunning sound engineering and a worthy test of our "ultra" systems! - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 755 Old 06-19-2014, 12:07 PM
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It will look something like this, and I will also apologise for this comprehensive thread hijack and thank you for your inputs.
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post #212 of 755 Old 06-20-2014, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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It will look something like this, and I will also apologise for this comprehensive thread hijack and thank you for your inputs.
No need to apologize. You are in AVS Ultra forum's official off topic thread; it has been so the moment I posted my 911's pic on the very first page :-). Don't forget sdurani's terrific comments on high versus low frequency room correction starting on page 6, post 176, and my excellent questions of course :-).

Regarding 7.1 versus 5.1 + 2 heights; ideally you want to match exactly the Codec's mix, but when that's not possible, I would also vote for 7.1. My interpretation of Sanjay/KBarnes's recommendation: If you look at the diagram below and see the angle of soundfield you are missing were you to take away the 2 rears: nearly 180 degrees, practically all of the rear hemisphere. The basic idea IMHO is it is relatively more advantageous to populate speakers where none currently exists in immediate area. In your room the 2 rears would be perfect because you have the space.

I also think the importance of height speakers shrink (diminishing return) as the room shrinks, particularly ceiling height of course. For a couple reasons I believe: one, the angle of separation from height to floor speakers becomes less (no more than 45 degrees sitting 8 feet away w/ 8 feet ceiling unless you move heights sideways), and two, our surrounds at 6 feet high *already* give some height information. This is the reason why I heard the flies directly overhead - the very reason for this thread's existence! See you are not so off topic after all.



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post #213 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post

I also think the importance of height speakers shrink (diminishing return) as the room shrinks, particularly ceiling height of course. For a couple reasons I believe: one, the angle of separation from height to floor speakers becomes less (no more than 45 degrees sitting 8 feet away w/ 8 feet ceiling unless you move heights sideways), and two, our surrounds at 6 feet high *already* give some height information. This is the reason why I heard the flies directly overhead - the very reason for this thread's existence! See you are not so off topic after all.
That would be a big negatory, see if the 7.1 mix was mastered in atmos (they have to lay those atmos height ceiling tracks back- largely out of phase) if then you upconvert it with say trinnov 3Dremap, or auromatic (mebbe dts neox or plIIz) the out of phase signal can be very loud washing the underside of your ceiling towards the back. the room in albiorix is only 8 feet thigh and the height speakers are 22 inches above the top of the lcr. That is where you can hear a freight train going above your head because the lcr signal stays put and the overhead stuff gets steered. It is a dramatic difference. IMO

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post #214 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 08:47 AM
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Do any of you 900b owners know what refresh rate the glasses work on for 3d? I had a sony hx800 and for blu rays it was 48hz and flicked a lot.
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post #215 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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That would be a big negatory, see if the 7.1 mix was mastered in atmos (they have to lay those atmos height ceiling tracks back- largely out of phase) if then you upconvert it with say trinnov 3D remap, or auromatic (mebbe dts neox or plIIz) the out of phase signal can be very loud washing the underside of your ceiling towards the back. the room in albiorix is only 8 feet thigh and the height speakers are 22 inches above the top of the lcr. That is where you can hear a freight train going above your head because the lcr signal stays put and the overhead stuff gets steered. It is a dramatic difference. IMO

Peter, why would I want a train to go above my head; they are not flying, no? I would think this might be a complication of *generating* height where none exists, rather than a plus, of the setup? In a perfect HOME (not theater) surround system, I would prefer the train to stay down, the airplane up, the horses down, ambient effects such as spaceship interior hum, rain, birds in forest, to be floating on top, etc.

I am beginning to be suspicious of your criticism of Dolby's own screening room :-) and the bucket-list superiority of the rooms you created. It's starting to sound like they are just kinda loud, ear damaging loud, with sound effects all over the place, and ear bleeding high frequency? I might have to take back my effusive praise for your work until I see better evidence otherwise.

Kidding aside, when you visit the Dolby Atmos screening room, did they have height speakers 22 inches above main? Another way to look at this, let's go to the extreme and ask, how about putting the height speaker right on top of the main, with no separation? Why would you not want to do that, would it interfere with clarity of conversation in main speakers? Wouldn't you might as well make that height information come out of the mains? I am not saying height information doesn't help, just that 22 inches might be good for your ears, but more separation would be better. Decreasing separation of sound (low ceiling, heights close to mains) = decreasing advantage of height info; I would think.

Regards, Can
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post #216 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 10:22 AM
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... I would think.
I think the bottom line here, away from theory, is Peter (Neil, others) have set up and spent much time with such multi-channel set ups. Few, if any here, have... I'm just hearing pure conjecture here.

I can't comment from first hand use and guessing is useless to all. I'll comment in about a month when I can give some objective observations.

Anyone else in this thread have first hand experience? I'd love to hear it.
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post #217 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 12:50 PM
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Can, you can do whatever you want, you can pick up an opiates habit or start consorting with transvestite escorts in the Strip too. IOW You can pick your poison. You would not be the first one to dismiss me in this forum, you can search back and see before 2009 that there were dozens of people ridiculing me. I made it a point to show and tell, and since I enjoy when the occasional non believer rears his head, as you have become a refreshingly rare encounter.

I have heard incredible 2 channel systems in private rooms, my clients other room, and at the shows I get a kick out of it. I have used many 30,000-75,000 speakers in my designs during the pro logic years and yes they were 6 feet from the walls. NOW the game is changing For 3 years I had carte blanche to go anywhere I wanted and listen to anything I wanted. One design on the board has 30 Raidho diamond woofer speakers with custom 10 inch diamond coated speakers (that is 3 million in speakers) and custom rack mounted utilitarian D'Agostino amps at 50k per pair.(not lying to you); after listening to the fatigue free Q's I find little additional derivable value from coating woofers with diamonds, although the D'agostinos are a great idea,I'm still up to the task.This house


So I pride myself in my surround sound evaluating and setup skills and have a trained ear on surround since the first surround processor the bucket brigade ADS 1001 (or something like that in 1979) with Kef 105.4's picket up at the factory and 104/2's for surround. South Florida is the most competitive HT market on the planet and I do not go looking for work, referrals come to me by some very heavy hitters with refined visual and acoustical acuity. Not only have they bought one cinema from me, but 2, and 3 (with the condition that the next one be twice as good).

I have delivered under the most inhospitable conditions, equipment going bad on the other side of the world, red tape that because one demo good porn disc (that converts to 3D exceedingly well), just because such disc was found in box number 7 of a shipment of 17 boxes, the entire shipment was quarantined by customs being held under the suspicion of being a porn replicating facility. (Perhaps the client should not have asked for it).

Right Testes on the butcher block wager. That A) I know what I hear and B) That when the film mixers are done with their atmos and Auro Tracks (
those width and height signals have to be re encoded back into a 7.1 mix and that just as prologic decoded the millenium falcon out of the back of our rooms in the 80's so can that height info be extracted by steering alone overhead. So yes even in the most extreme restriction of cases you can still benefit from height channels sitting on top(not that I sanction) because quite frankly it's an entirely different signal and when the speakers are aimed and whole 3d soundfield is time aligned it pops where it has to. You are just hearing that height signal mixed in through your 7.1 mains, again the strip is just miles away from you, chose your poison. My position: Audiogon is your friend!

Also please do not take my metaphors ad verbatim. By the Freight train I mean chunks of Tony Starks Home flying overhead, a helicopter hovering overhead in WWZ, space debris properly imaged in the scene where they jetpack unto the main badass vessel in Star Trek, the clouds swishing overhead and thunder in the above link?

So to summarize: ON a 3d sound system when playing 7.1 BD that was mastered in object based, extracting auro/atmos height channels works by the same principle as a steered pro logic system (which works around your head Horizontally) but steered vertical the freight train allegory (not unlike real life experience of having Hurricane Andrew wrecking havoc over your roof), is to define the chutzpah, robusteness, agility and awesomeness of such power, where and when as mixed by the film mixers themselves.

Capiche?
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post #218 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
ON a 3d sound system when playing 7.1 BD that was mastered in object based, extracting auro/atmos height channels works by the same principle as a steered pro logic system
Object-based audio works on the same principle as matrix surround processing?

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post #219 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 01:11 PM
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No Sanjay I am saying those Atmos /Auro height signals are produced with great care for maximum robust palpable realism, what do you do when having to re encode those masterpieces of tracks unto a measly 7.1 bd?

A)Throw those tracks away?

B) reconstitute them into the 7.1 Mix

B right? But the phase cues are very powerful so they can be extracted and positioned by trinnow 3d, auromatic or dare say perhaps pl2 or neox.

I stand by above wager, painful as it may sound.
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post #220 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 01:23 PM
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what do you do when having to re encode those masterpieces of tracks unto a measly 7.1 bd?

A)Throw those tracks away?

B) reconstitute them into the 7.1 Mix

B right?
But that's how downmixing has always operated, nothing is thrown away. That's not something new or unique to Atmos.
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But the phase cues are very powerful so they can be extracted and positioned by trinnow 3d, auromatic or dare say perhaps pl2 or neox.
That's not possible, since each of those uses a different method to extract height information. Each one would give you something in the height speakers, but each one would be different. Which means they would be extracting arbitrary information, not the intended height info of the original Atmos mix.

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post #221 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 01:28 PM
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Good posts Peter. Wow, that uber-mega system in Moscow only has 8ft ceiling?????? That's like my room. I would have moved to a different penthouse if it were me, lol.

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post #222 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 01:42 PM
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Good posts Peter. Wow, that uber-mega system in Moscow only has 8ft ceiling?????? That's like my room. I would have moved to a different penthouse if it were me, lol.
Height of the room has little to do to get the full atmos effect look at Dolbys atmos suite in London. Not so tall after all.On the Dolby London back row you have the same angle as in Moscow front row.

And since this is the definitive off topic thread.....I had a chance to look at a seven story 71st floor PH jobsite over there. This is not a picture of the construction of a new wells fargo branch. Those are two of the biggest vaults Ive seen.




A three story cement spiral staircase....And our fancy albiorix lies under the indoor glass swimming pool dwarfed on the left from this flat. I have many more decadent shots from that tour-- the interior design book by a Beirut Firm was best described as guilded pharaonic. The little building in blu is the 65 story home of Albiorix.

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post #223 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 01:47 PM
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But that's how downmixing has always operated, nothing is thrown away. That's not something new or unique to Atmos. That's not possible, since each of those uses a different method to extract height information. Each one would give you something in the height speakers, but each one would be different. Which means they would be extracting arbitrary information, not the intended height info of the original Atmos mix.
That is accurate, and be mindful that I am talking about a solution to be obsoleted in one year, the 3d remapping is very convincing on a full 3D reald system what I heard was uncannily well placed with what was going on. Trinnov either with the 3 degree axis tilt engaged or disengaged.

In a year the real atmos will show it's true colors.In the meantime the above mentioned companies have a way of extracting uncannily accurate height info, that if it were shot and mixed under the e train in Chicago would have that elevated train going right over your head.

Here are the speaker elevators we built ( the name of the game is the positioning and tilting as high as possible, even if you have to tilt down to clear the screen frame.

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post #224 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 02:35 PM
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Great enlightening thread. Are any other iterations of theater speakers using a wide range horn loaded AMT like the Beyma TPL-150/H being researched / introduced? Seems like that may be the next big thing, with Q being on the leading edge.

I have traditionally not preferred ported speakers so the Q line is less interesting to me than it would normally be. But that may be a dumb prejudice on my part that I should remedy with a good listening session .

Someone should make a sealed Catalyst type speaker using that driver as the mid / tweet and a pair of flanking 8s or 10s or 12s. Maybe Mark could make such a speaker as an alternative to the exceptional Catalyst.

As an aside, Smaug's voice was mentioned earlier as a center channel killer..... The Catalysts ran through it like butter. Sounded incredible and deeeeep.
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post #225 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Good posts Peter. Wow, that uber-mega system in Moscow only has 8ft ceiling?????? That's like my room. I would have moved to a different penthouse if it were me, lol.

Regards, Can
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post #226 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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As an aside, Smaug's voice was mentioned earlier as a center channel killer..... The Catalysts ran through it like butter. Sounded incredible and deeeeep.


Yes. I was so afraid for my dear center speaker. There is little doubt that purpose built hometheater speakers like Catalyst could achieve loudness with much more ease than mines. Would love to hear them in a hometheater one of these days.

Regards, Can
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post #227 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Height of the room has little to do to get the full atmos effect look at Dolbys atmos suite in London. Not so tall after all.
Goodness Peter please calm down; I have nothing to do with other people's ridicule of you. I didn't even come up with the Samurai sword analogy of the AMT speakers you are selling. :-) Losing your cool in a public forum and hurling insults would probably not come out well for a business person. It really just means you've lost the argument. Lastly, unless you could clean up your language, I would ask politely that you stop posting in this thread please.

Even though there have been some big terms thrown around I am not sure points of the discussion here have been brought across: height info and separation of speakers. First please read again sdurani's explanation of generated height (freight train on the ceiling) vs. true height info in the mix (only birds on the ceiling). Second, no one is questioning the height of your Moscow mega theater (Although I did think all this time it is like a hangar - it might actually be lower than mine! ).The only point, and I only said this based on reading of posts from certain people I trust here, is that if possible you would like to maximize the angle of separation of your height speakers from your main. Either by moving it upward, or sideways; I vaguely recall min. 30 degrees being a desirable number, if possible.

The height of the London Atmos suite is not in question. The question is: Did they put the height speakers 24 inches above mains, the way you did? You have the wherewithal to criticize Dolby's own screening room - how about explaining the rationale of your own setup? Why would you go through all that trouble to generate/separate out height info signal, then put it practically next to where it comes from, the main speakers?

Regards, Can
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post #228 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 03:57 PM
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Thick skin buddy, I was just dramatizing a point about freedom of choice, and hobbies. Not you. Hell you very clearly questioned my purpose in life simply for correcting the one point you are 100% wrong about. Thus far the interaction has been polite, but get a pair of heigh channels and a four channel trinnov , extract those channels and THEN OPINE.

The height of the London Atmos suite is not in question. The question is: Did they put the height speakers 24 inches above mains, the way you did? You have the wherewithal to criticize Dolby's own screening room - how about explaining the rationale of your own setup? Why would you go through all that trouble to generate/separate out height info signal, then put it practically next to where it comes from, the main speakers?
And who says that I had the clarity to read the future, atmos was not in my radar when I designed the system with heights and widths. FYI the original meridian 861 had decals for the width channels and other channels beyond 7.1... Not that it materialsed the company decided to go into the recurring revenue business DVD AUDIO instead of dabbling on ambisonic and more speaker counts, but Bob Stuart did say circa 1986 a "speaker every 5 feet". That was what project code name AURORA was at Meridian back then: a canopy of sound.

I was just expecting to extract ambience information and that is the way it sounds on 7.1 blurays released in the cinema for 7.1. It sounded a lot like that awesome Harman heights system that went belly up before deployment, not a freight train.

It's not my fault that most of the 3D movies coming out on Blu-ray last fall had been mastered for Auro and Atmos and that my system through no design of mine was spewing massive information overhead that when you put the 3d glasses on sounded exactly where the parallax was presenting them AKA Loud effects overhead. You give me too much credit, this and the discovery of penicillin same situation.

But it's there.It is irrefutable height channels worked stunningly realistic with the 22" plynth.

The criticism of the Dolby room is purely using the speakers and amps available to their standard client base. Ray himself would have agreed. Bottomline they need something like the quested.

I am curious about those new horn loaded designs there are even some with Fan cooling.

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post #229 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 04:06 PM
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I argue that the center channel not only needs to elucidate the voice of Smaug, the whole array of speakers should. And By elucidating a concentric drive will not be as transparent and fatigue free as an amt or a ribbon. We hear loud noises beyond 130db every day in our life, when you lower the window of your car on highway you hear 115 db of 5hz of course the ear is not same sensitive for all freq's but 140 decibel is a pleasure done right. You see compression is the biggest problem, when you hear the soundfield growing louder and clearer and unrestrained, frightfully louder and still comfortable, you have arrived.

My next benchmark is 135 db from the surrounds ....
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post #230 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 07:45 PM
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I don't disagree that you can get great results with an 8ft ceiling height, just somewhat surprised that a killer room with an amazing wall of front speakers has that limitation. I guess billionaires have to live with compromises too. But if the result is as good as you say then I guess size doesn't matter, lol.


Turns out the theatre down the street is playing Edge of Tomorrow with Dolby Atmos!!!! I'm going to try to go see it soon while it's still there.

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post #231 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 08:10 PM
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Its actually 8 under the pool and 7 in back row, but the lines of sight, height risers, screen size and sound are as organic and comfortable as it comes even scraping 140 db .



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post #232 of 755 Old 06-21-2014, 08:16 PM
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And the final change order screen.





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post #233 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 03:43 AM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post
Turns out the theatre down the street is playing Edge of Tomorrow with Dolby Atmos!!!! I'm going to try to go see it soon while it's still there.
Well worth it. Saw it twice in Atmos. The mix makes excellent use of overhead speakers and smooth panning in the surround field.
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post #234 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 03:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
In a year the real atmos will show it's true colors.In the meantime the above mentioned companies have a way of extracting uncannily accurate height info,
No, they're not extracting height info.

PLIIz is extracting decorrelated (out of phase) info from the L/R surround channels and Neo:X is extracting info that is common to the front and surround-back channels.

Auro3D can decode height information that has been encoded in an Auro soundtrack. But the company's blind upmixer, Auromatic, does not extract height information.

Trinnov re-mapping can use height speakers to make the soundstage image at the proper height, but it is not extracting overhead height information.

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post #235 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 04:27 AM
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Barco's Auro3D, Christie Vive and Dolby Atmos are very good. But, what has IMAX done? I watched a private screening of Transformers:Age of Extinction at a local IMAX and WOW, sound was from everywhere! All i got when i asked about the audio was "top secret". I don't remember the scenes that much, but i remember the soundtrack!
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post #236 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
Barco's Auro3D, Christie Vive and Dolby Atmos are very good. But, what has IMAX done? I watched a private screening of Transformers:Age of Extinction at a local IMAX and WOW, sound was from everywhere! All i got when i asked about the audio was "top secret". I don't remember the scenes that much, but i remember the soundtrack!
could be their new 11.1 channel system.
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post #237 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
No, they're not extracting height info.

PLIIz is extracting decorrelated (out of phase) info from the L/R surround channels and Neo:X is extracting info that is common to the front and surround-back channels.

Auro3D can decode height information that has been encoded in an Auro soundtrack. But the company's blind upmixer, Auromatic, does not extract height information.

Trinnov re-mapping can use height speakers to make the soundstage image at the proper height, but it is not extracting overhead height information.


I am not the only one that played with the height channels, the owner set gain at +1, a dozen people heard what I describe. That is the only way to prove to anyone that they were hearing a 3D sound system, play iroman 3 house destruction scene, play oz transition scene, play wwz helicopter, play star trek jetpack invasion sceneDo that and hear $hit(with the exculpations of reverend censor Canga) hurled over your head.

Sanjay I wonder how well your ears are calibrated to your encyclopedic cerebrum. I defer to you to digesting the theory and being able to interpret it for the more laymen to understand, it is comforting to know there are people like you Im just hired to buy high tech and try it, we hired Curt who has a doctorate level pracvtice on acoustics. At the end of the day I make it my business to take theory with a grain of salt, HT is far more art than science and by art I mean experimentation too. How do you explain then that what was heard? And it is very important to be hearing these signals while wearing 3d glasses to compare the acoustical cues (distance from screen+apparent acceleration+ xyz trajectories) at the same time with paralax changes of the "sound objects y axis pans" [to use liberaly the term for an element on the screen being hurled to the back or viceversa].

Are you preposterously suggesting that we will only hear items ON THEIR WAY to the surrounds from the front/ARRIVING TO THE REARS and viceversa but that the heigh during the overhead transition is INTERRUPTED lost? Cause it ain't the case I hate to tell you. The trinnov remap filled that gap with what sounded like the Harman system on regular 7.1 disc but in contrast when playing certain discs (those made from Atmos and Auro masters) in such discs sound "on their way to the surrounds" traversed through those speakers after they left the fronts and before they arrived at the rears. Keep in mind these speakers project very far field and their arrival time was set forward (as they should)

If it walks like a height, it smells like a height, and it talks like a height, I call it a pseudo height. For you to profess armed with academic knowledge that that particular system is completely incapable of that feature
is nothing more than academic trolling, because you too are wrong.

Call it a side effect, a coincidence, an opto-acoustical illusion, or just the acoustics/electonics mix in that room. But the height channel APPEARED to fill the logical speaker gap in correlation with the parallax. When the height channels were turned off the image collapsed leaving a hole above.

Lets try the reverse elimination process:
So kindly tell me where the height info is coming from in a 7.1 mix(mastered in one of the high order systems) in all four of those systems.

What do you think happens to that signal which 3 out of 5 times IMO is panning front to back/side to side/ vice-versa? [of sound objects: Helicopters being the ubiquitous example.]

Using your above definitions [which in all fairness is biased against AURO through ambiguity- if you do not know don't pretend you know through omission] Like James Cameron said to me "if you are going to come to me with a critique, arrive prepared" ( I merely had lost my train of thought as I realized who I was lecturing).

Where do you think you will hear it? because IN PLIIZ info on its way to the surround channels or arriving to front channels from back channels sounds to me like it could pop in the heights. So that has to be experimented as far as I am concerned.

The DTS definition also points to me like It will show up there (ya hear me Bland).

By your own comments you like the auromatic so if it is not filling that hole above what the heck is it doing?

The people that have heard Neils have had only high praise for the Barco auro. You know what, we will soon hear from people that will be able to say Sanjay was right Peter was wrong on Auromatic (and yes with questeds), or plIIz or Neo x, cause I dont need anyone validation on what is clearly perceptible with Trinnov remap [and yes Crucify me and the owner for finding a 1 decibel bump on those channels enjoyable and natural] in that system/room.

Please placate our inquisitiveness and tell us your best guess: We know of your reticence for speculation (although I caught you correctly speculating that auro will sound better at home due to lack of speaker array induced image dilution- Bravo), please indulge me.

Where will the height information come out of on a heights channel equipped system using those four methods with discs mixed down from and original auro/atmos mix? Si Vous Ples

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post #238 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by CinemaAndy View Post
Barco's Auro3D, Christie Vive and Dolby Atmos are very good. But, what has IMAX done? I watched a private screening of Transformers:Age of Extinction at a local IMAX and WOW, sound was from everywhere! All i got when i asked about the audio was "top secret". I don't remember the scenes that much, but i remember the soundtrack!
Maybe is a side benefit of it being scored on Quested speakers.
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post #239 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
Maybe is a side benefit of it being scored on Quested speakers.
I don't know, they would not tell me anything. It was the best sounding movie i ever heard.

I do not know why these guys want to be funny. The studios wanted true 3D sound to go with 3D vision way back. Now it is possible. I think Auro, Vive, Atmos are both using 18 speakers in the house, correct? I saw the Atmos at Dolby labs, a few years ago. Other than the IMAX last night, that was my first height experience.

I don't think a Blu-Ray 7.1 soundtrack is changed much from the master. So if you have the processor, and know how, you can get height outputs from it. Of course the movie audio had to be recorded for height speakers.

All you would need is the right audio processor.
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post #240 of 755 Old 06-22-2014, 08:22 AM
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All you would need is the right audio processor.
Thanks for validating my postulate.

Please know that Vive is just a set of equipment compatible with any sound system they are curvilinear ribbons and digital amps, IMO the combo does not work too well at least in the atmos demo room and cinemacon. I had high hopes for it but naw.

This is the second time someone finds a soundtrack top .01 % good, and it is traceable to quested scoring and in this case mastering. For me it was Pharell Williams Fun Fun Fun which while playing it's demo over and over for 2 nights in 4D at Skoll has brought me the acquaintance of more movie stars rappers and supermodels than being a Guardsman at Sony Pictures could. I have to go to the Aventura mall and catch up on my Atmos Imax Vive.

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