Gravity - did you notice the "overhead flies" sequence? Wow - stunning sound engineering and a worthy test of our "ultra" systems! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 511 Old 03-29-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Besides the jaw dropping bass (my wife at one point thought we had another earthquake - no kidding, since we just had one here in Southern Cal), did anyone notice the flies buzzing overhead, and all over the place, starting at 1:21:16? Right after Sandra Bullock surfaced from underwater, at 1:21:16, first a fly buzzing *directly* over audience right side, then over audience left rear, then it flies towards the screen where you now see it on screen. In the mean time, space ship debris racing right to left in the sky. Wow what an audio treat; I love the effort and talent of movie sound engineers! This is an Atmos mix and btw, the faces behind the scene: Skip Lievsay, Niv Adiri, Christopher Benstead and Chris Munro. Well, not so much behind the scene anymore since they are Oscar winners, but... in case you wonder.

The "overhead flies" sequence is among most distinct overhead sound maneuvers that I have heard, and of note, much more pleasing in 7:1 setup than in 5:1 setup, as the 7:1 setup makes the effect more distinctly in mid air above us in my system, pulls sound effect rearward, and expands sound-scape, extending it to the 180 degree space behind you. Very spooky and my family all laughed incredulously when I pointed out they had just heard the flies overhead. If you are at 5.1, I would highly recommend to give 7.1 expansion a try. Even using cheap B&W in-ceiling speakers (1200/pair), I have been able to expand my system to 7.1 and dramatically change the sound-scape.

I also have never had my chair vibrate so much in a movie LOL. In fact the whole floor was vibrating. From crystal clear conversation, to jaw dropping bass, to spectacular sound effects, yes, all the audiophile engineers have abandoned music for the theaters!

This movie is another example of why whether your system is 5.1, or 7.1.4 Atmos, IMHO to play with the "big boys," the front 3 speakers - left, center, right - should be as large, full range, and good sounding as one's budget and space allows. Yes, the enveloping effect is nice, yes the flies sound effect is fun to listen to, but they are "surround" sound in support of the "primary" sound, the one that comes out of the front 3. Whether it is Gravity, or Super 8, or Smaug, the front 3 are the ones that need the devastating power that overwhelms your audience :-), it is where the screen and primary action are. Go for broke with both speaker size and amplification for the front 3, if possible: this means big speakers that could run full range (no crossover'ed) and big amp that could supply the current.

Looking back, this thread should be renamed THE ULTIMATE OFF-TOPIC THREAD for all the off topic stuffs here. Feel free to add; anything goes. However, no cursing, be nice, keep the noise down (my system is better than yours, etc.), and don't advertise things you sell, or as the thread starter I might invoke my right to be the dictator :-) and will politely ask you to leave and create your own thread.

Some interesting & important posts:
1. sdurani's comment on higher crosstalk vs. lower crosstalk and early reflection, page 6, post 151: Here
2. Comment on high versus low frequency room correction starting on page 6, post 176: Here
3. Which codec has "real" height information? sdurani's comment on height information of Dolby PLIIz (no) vs. Auro3D (yes) vs Auromatic (no) vs Trinnov (no) vs DTS Neo:X (depends) p10, post 293: Here
4. Important Atmos home speaker layout - sdurani's post 372: Here
5. Not important, just interesting :-), my review of automobile Dirac post 160: Here
6. Impression of a few speaker systems post 168: Here

LIST OF DEMO WORTHY MATERIAL: Over the years, many favorites but below are the ones I use over and over to demo the powerful and clean sound of my Theta Casablanca - in decreasing order of importance:
1. Super 8 - Opening train wreck sequence: so real it's frightening, so realistic it makes my audience duck the flying debris. Bombastic, overwhelming, scary, what more to ask for as demo clip? This is among my all time favorites; actually still number one on the list because of the tension sonically and visually of the opening sequence.
2. Gravity - See above, unbelievably deep bass throughout movie, spectacular visual that's well coordinated with amazing sound effect. Well deserved Oscar sound winner.
3. Chicago - Cell Block Tango: Musical, intensely physical - not the sound, the dancers :-). I love watching how powerful and beautiful the young dancers are. Oh, the sound: so dynamic - very much so, yet silky smooth voice and high end, transparent and layered soundstage. This is my "musical" demo.
4. Gladiator - Opening sequence: remains one of the most hair-raising movie openings. Can't take my eyes off Richard Harris's acting. This is the young and sitll good Russell Crowe.
5. Roy Orbison's Black and White Night - My all time favorite concert DVD. A once in a lifetime performance, fortunately recorded by an audiophile. Smooth & natural, of course not the level of my vinyl but as good as it gets for a digitally recorded concert. BTW, do not use the surround mix - the LPCM 2 channel mix sounds best.
6. Hobbit - Desolation of Smaug - As a movie, I much prefer Unexpected Journey with the epic "riddle sequence"" between Bilbo and Gollum, but for sound, Desolation won because of the voice of Smaug. Cumberbatch's voice surely was manipulated with the end result, that incredible rumbling, threatens to send the 2 woofers of my dear Aerial center channel speaker out of the speaker cabinet! Turn the volume down! Err... on second thought, turn it UP!

Scene of the vibration :-):
Linn Sondek Turntable w/ Lyra and Koetsu Cartridge, Conrad Johnson Premier 10 Phono Stage and Premier 16 Preamp, Theta CBIII HD, Krell FPB 600 Amp, Thiel CS5i.

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Regards, Can
Theta sound: Powerful and full-bodied, stunning 3D soundstage, spooky imaging in "clean & quiet" soundfield. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 & 3914
Give vinyl and tube pre-amp a try - the sound from heaven!

Last edited by cannga; 07-19-2014 at 07:16 AM.
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post #2 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 01:35 AM - Thread Starter
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IMPORTANT DIAGRAMS (as always any expert please correct any information below as needed - I will change the info if I think it's trust worthy :-)). Don't get mixed up between home theater layout, and cinema theater layout. The former is for out typical homes; the latter is for the much larger screen width of a commercial cinema (hence 5 screen speakers, although still only 3 channels), and multiple rows and columns of seats.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good ol' 7.1:



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Home Atmos System (courtesy of sdurani): Object oriented surround will render images based on its "learned" speaker positions in any individual layout, so you have flexibility where to place the height speakers - just remember higher angle of separation between adjacent speakers is desirable. That said, in a 7.1.4 Atmos setup, my vote would be central height speakers (the yellow dots) first, NOT corner height speakers. My take: Central area above central hot seat is "under-covered" with speakers/sound sources - see diagram above. Placing extra 4 speakers there spread the "sound pixels" so the Atmos renderer has more sound sources in different areas to create images with. Just my speculation - no flame please :-).




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Cinema Atmos System
5 front speakers (extra center), but still only 3 front channels, for smoother front panning, multiple side, rear, and ceiling speakers for the multiple rows and columns of seats. How do you solve the issue that an airplane that sounds like it's to the side of person in row 10, is behind the person in row 1 - how could precise imaging to MATCH screen action be accomplished for all seats?I have a headache thinking of the logistics of planning for sound imaging of such a large theater. :-)


Regards, Can
Theta sound: Powerful and full-bodied, stunning 3D soundstage, spooky imaging in "clean & quiet" soundfield. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 & 3914
Give vinyl and tube pre-amp a try - the sound from heaven!

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post #3 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

I highly recommend it that you give 7.1 expansion a try.

7.1? Really? Where have you been..? You Theta guys take this waiting approach far too seriously - but then again you just got HDMI a couple years ago.biggrin.gif

I'm gearing up for a 9.2 or 13.1 system now.. see you there in 10 years!wink.gif
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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #4 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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It's like I would take one Porsche over 13 Yaris's Jeff.

I know you are kidding w/ me, but in general, it's quality over quantity, starting with speakers, amplification, etc. I would very likely just prefer 1 mono center speaker of this system over your 13 speakers. Kidding - your system is very good and not to suggest "mine is better" of course, just a matter of preference.

BTW, excuse me, it's 8 years, not 10 for Theta to get multi channels above 7.1. :-)

Regards, Can
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post #5 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 08:02 AM
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I'm giving you **** for sure. Nothing personal...smile.gif

But 7.1 is a great thing. Glad you [finally] found it.

My Porsche is now 3 years old. Just took it out of storage this weekend. Boy, did I miss it!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #6 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 12:06 PM
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Yeah, but look at all the anticipation the Theta guys get to have, first waiting on HDMI, then 7.1 audio and now with a new audio format coming out, they will get to look forward to Atoms for a few years. smile.gif

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post #7 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

worthy test of our "Ultra" processors & speaker setups!!

Besides the jaw dropping bass (my wife at one point thought we had another earthquake - no kidding, since we just had one here in Southern Cal), did anyone notice this overhead flies sequence at 1:21:16? Right after Sandra Bullock surfaced from underwater, at 1:21:16, first a fly buzzing DIRECTLY over audience right side, then over audience left rear, then it flies towards the screen where you now see it on screen! In the mean time, space ship debris racing right to left in the sky. Wow what an audio treat! I LOVE the effort and talent of movie sound engineers!

The "overhead flies" sequence is THE most distinct overhead sound maneuver that I have ever heard, and of note, much more pleasing in 7:1 setup than in 5:1 setup, as the 7:1 setup makes the effect more distinctly in mid air above us in my system, pulls sound effect rearward, and expands soundstage, from besides audience to both besides and directly behind audience. Very spooky and my family all laughed incredulously when I pointed out they had just heard the flies overhead. smile.gif
If you are at 5.1, I highly recommend it that you give 7.1 expansion a try. Even using cheap B&W in-ceiling speakers (1200/pair), I have been able to expand my system to 7.1 and dramatically change the soundscape.

I also have never had my chair vibrate so much in a movie LOL. In fact the whole floor was vibrating. From crystal clear conversation, to jaw dropping bass, to spectacular sound effects, yes, all the audiophile engineers have abandoned music for the theaters! :-)

But was it "high end"? biggrin.gif

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post #8 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 12:41 PM
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Can, glad you're enjoying the effect, but it isn't unusual. If I stretch a piece of string between the tweeters of my L/R speakers, I can see where their soundstage will be. Any sounds that are the same in both front speakers will be heard at the centre of that soundstage (directly in front of me). If I stretch a piece of string between my 2 side speakers (mounted a couple feet above ear level), I can see where their soundstage will be. Any sounds that are the same in both side speakers will be heard at the centre of that soundstage (directly above me). Nothing more complicated than that.

Most people I know with 7-speaker layouts hear the effect routinely. The opening chapter of 'Transformers 3' has a nice helicopter flyover near the very end of the chapter (you hear the first helicopter somewhere around you, but the second helicopter can be heard above you).

There is also a scene in 'Ratatouille' where Remy is floating on a cookbook down a drainage pipe and water is falling from a crack overhead. It is a brief moment, but the sound of the leaking water moves along the centre line of my ceiling, from directly above to the back of the room. Easily repeatable for guests.

In the first few minutes of 'Star Wars', when Vader's giant ship is drawing in Princess Leia's little ship, some metal clanging sound effects can be heard from above the listening area. Heard that one back in 1997 (almost 17 years ago) when I picked up the 'Star Wars: Special Edition' laserdiscs with 5.1 AC-3 (old name for Dolby Digital) soundtracks.

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post #9 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 01:33 PM
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My Porsche is now 3 years old. Just took it out of storage this weekend. Boy, did I miss it!

Out of storage? Why put a runabout in storage?

Shame that Gravity sucked as a movie. The sound track was the best part of it indeed.

BTW I am sure you guys have it but I just received my copy of Modern Cool by Patricia Barber on Blu Ray Audio. A fabulous piece of surround sound recording. Mastered with Egglestonworks speakers of course. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #10 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Out of storage? Why put a runabout in storage?

Shame that Gravity sucked as a movie. The sound track was the best part of it indeed.

BTW I am sure you guys have it but I just received my copy of Modern Cool by Patricia Barber on Blu Ray Audio. A fabulous piece of surround sound recording. Mastered with Egglestonworks speakers of course. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

92" of snow in this winter. We haven't seen our lawns in 4 months and the roads are full of salt and potholes. At $2500 a rim, I can't afford to drive in the snow!biggrin.gif

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #11 of 511 Old 04-01-2014, 02:03 PM
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Yikes - well understood.

Well my runabout got broken into. They stole the front seats, the steering wheel and the gear shift - left everything that was in the glovebox etc. Cretins. At least an hour and a half to remove all that and no one noticed. A further 5 cars in the body shop with the same problem. Go figure.

Funnily enough you crossed my mind this evening as I has sipping (quaffing is probably a better description) a 2006 Amon-Ra from Ben Glaetzer. Not a pinot but a bloody good drop of plonk - even if it is Australian. If you can find some, it's well worth a try.

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post #12 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Yikes - well understood.

Well my runabout got broken into. They stole the front seats, the steering wheel and the gear shift - left everything that was in the glovebox etc. Cretins. At least an hour and a half to remove all that and no one noticed. A further 5 cars in the body shop with the same problem. Go figure.

Funnily enough you crossed my mind this evening as I has sipping (quaffing is probably a better description) a 2006 Amon-Ra from Ben Glaetzer. Not a pinot but a bloody good drop of plonk - even if it is Australian. If you can find some, it's well worth a try.

Good to know. I've had it. I looked it up and recognized the bottle. It is available locally around here. Will pick one up next time at the wine shop.

I haven't had anything of consequence lately. I did pick up a Nickel and Nickel Harris Vineyard Merlot 6 pack. At $45/bottle, it the least expensive merlot they make but is is a single Vineyard drink and very, very good. I've been getting back on the Merlot train.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #13 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 06:26 AM
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On a similar topic, I recently switched from Coke Zero to Pepsi One. smile.gif

(Just recently read about high levels of carcinogen, though, and will be switching back, now)

But seriously. My wife and I always remark that we would really enjoy drinking wine (or even coffee for that matter), but just have never acquired the taste.
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

92" of snow in this winter. We haven't seen our lawns in 4 months and the roads are full of salt and potholes. At $2500 a rim, I can't afford to drive in the snow!biggrin.gif

Jeff, just to make you jealous, this is what I am looking at year round. Other than the occasional earthquakes :-), California = perfect land for Porsche drivers.

Re. Porsche, yes there is nothing better. I recently picked up a BMW M3; fantastic sports sedan, more comfortable, and I love it, but overall still not quite the level of a Porsche.


ABEE7813-2.jpg

Regards, Can
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post #15 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post

Jeff, just to make you jealous, this is what I am looking at year round. Other than the occasional earthquakes :-), California = perfect land for Porsche drivers.

Re. Porsche, yes there is nothing better. I recently picked up a BMW M3; fantastic sports sedan, more comfortable, and I love it, but overall still not quite the level of a Porsche.


ABEE7813-2.jpg

Hey we reached 40 degrees today!! And about 80% of the snow has finally melted.biggrin.gif
That's my same car in Guards Red!biggrin.gif

I do love my car. There's no doubt about the feel and power compared to my clunky SUV!

That said, the M3 is no slouch. It's a performance car in a sedan's body. I have driven them a couple of times and it certainly feels and rides like a racer (unless the newer ones have a lighter suspension mode for daily driving)? Congrats!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #16 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Yikes - well understood.

Well my runabout got broken into. They stole the front seats, the steering wheel and the gear shift - left everything that was in the glovebox etc. Cretins. At least an hour and a half to remove all that and no one noticed. A further 5 cars in the body shop with the same problem. Go figure.

Funnily enough you crossed my mind this evening as I has sipping (quaffing is probably a better description) a 2006 Amon-Ra from Ben Glaetzer. Not a pinot but a bloody good drop of plonk - even if it is Australian. If you can find some, it's well worth a try.

 

At an hour and a half?  That's more than enough time to strip 3-4 cars down to the Monocoque.  They don't sound like professionals, or they just had a shopping list.

 

Sounds like your were lucky.  That would be something well under 5 minuets work for the guys in Detroit.

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post #17 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 10:28 AM
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At an hour and a half?  That's more than enough time to strip 3-4 cars down to the Monocoque.  They don't sound like professionals, or they just had a shopping list.

Sounds like your were lucky.  That would be something well under 5 minuets work for the guys in Detroit.

Thankfully it wasn't an American car. That's how long the repair technician reckoned it would take. But I suspect you are right and that it would be faster. They were only interested in the race seats, racing steering wheel and the gear lever. I'm still waiting for parts. They use a key reprogrammer to get around the alarm system.

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post #18 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by stevekale View Post


Thankfully it wasn't an American car. That's how long the repair technician reckoned it would take. But I suspect you are right and that it would be faster. They were only interested in the race seats, racing steering wheel and the gear lever. I'm still waiting for parts. They use a key reprogrammer to get around the alarm system.

 

I don't think there are any boundaries regarding point of origin for the car.  I recall a video of a Honda Cvic being striped of all body panels, doors, wheels, bumpers and the interior by a team of three guys in less than six minutes.

 

Assuming your London location is the UK, ironically, your Daily Mail had a story today about striping cars for parts.  The article reckons you can remove the whole engine in 10 seconds.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2223414/Car-thieves-steal-motors-just-10-seconds--times-faster-decade-ago-black-Audis-favourite.html

 

The alarm systems are at most a minor inconvenience for the professionals

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post #19 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 11:31 AM
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LOL! In the UK a "motor" is slang for a car. Yes, they can steal the car rather quickly. The article is not suggesting you can remove an engine in 10 seconds.

But there are also gangs nicking parts to order. RS seats and steering wheels are favourites at the moment. Mine is going to have to have an extra alarm fitted.

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post #20 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
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On a similar topic, I recently switched from Coke Zero to Pepsi One. smile.gif

(Just recently read about high levels of carcinogen, though, and will be switching back, now)

But seriously. My wife and I always remark that we would really enjoy drinking wine (or even coffee for that matter), but just have never acquired the taste.

Time to give up the box wine!!biggrin.gif

Seriously, buy a couple $30-$50 reds as recommended by your local wine shoppe. But do not drink until the end of a long day when the kids are in bed and your sitting down to relax. Decant it for an hour and let it get to near room temp. Cozy up to your wife. Pour a glass and just sip and recollect the day and not focus on the taste. It will all come together and you'll see what've been missing. It's part of good living.
Now I'm in the mood for a glass:).

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #21 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 11:52 AM
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Seriously, buy a couple $30-$50 reds as recommended by your local wine shoppe. But do not drink until the end of a long day when the kids are in bed and your sitting down to relax. Decant it for an hour and let it get to near room temp. Cozy up to your wife. Pour a glass and just sip and recollect the day and not focus on the taste. It will all come together and you'll see what've been missing. It's part of good living.
Now I'm in the mood for a glass:).

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post #22 of 511 Old 04-02-2014, 11:53 AM
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LOL! In the UK a "motor" is slang for a car. Yes, they can steal the car rather quickly. The article is not suggesting you can remove an engine in 10 seconds.

But there are also gangs nicking parts to order. RS seats and steering wheels are favourites at the moment. Mine is going to have to have an extra alarm fitted.

 

 

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post #23 of 511 Old 04-03-2014, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Why then do I still keep the 5.1 setting in my Theta, if 7.1 is so good? In case you wonder: while processed 7.1 enhances immersion and spectacular sound effects, in my system it also increases the ambient/atmospheric sound. This atmospheric sound in some way affects what I call, for lack of better word, the clarity of the sound scape. In other words, this atmospheric "sound" could also be called "noise," maybe?

I do not think this is a problem with native 7.1, but I do hear it with 5.1 processed to 7.1. The closest analogy I could think off is when you process 2 channel music to multi-channel 5.1 surround music. Immersion is enhanced, but "clarity" suffers. At any rate it's an on-going experiment and my vote for 7.1 is still a yes.

The 3 qualities that I evaluate and value in my theater system are subjective-fidelity (a full, powerful response), clarity, and sound effect (immersion, etc.). The improved immersion of processed 7.1 is worth the somewhat lesser clarity to my ears.

Regards, Can
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post #24 of 511 Old 04-03-2014, 09:28 AM
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The closest analogy I could think off is when you process 2 channel music to multi-channel 5.1 surround music. Immersion is enhanced, but "clarity" suffers.

That's to be expected; if you were at a performance and lined the walls with absorbing material, it would also increase clarity, as happens whenever the ratio of direct to reflected sound is increased.

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post #25 of 511 Old 04-04-2014, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Time to give up the box wine!!biggrin.gif

Seriously, buy a couple $30-$50 reds as recommended by your local wine shoppe. But do not drink until the end of a long day when the kids are in bed and your sitting down to relax. Decant it for an hour and let it get to near room temp. Cozy up to your wife. Pour a glass and just sip and recollect the day and not focus on the taste. It will all come together and you'll see what've been missing. It's part of good living.
Now I'm in the mood for a glass:).

Ok so I guess I've not been doing it the right way, and thanks for this excellent pointer. I have wine when traveling, but at home (perhaps thankfully) has never got into this potentially very expensive hobby.

Regards, Can
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post #26 of 511 Old 04-04-2014, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, but look at all the anticipation the Theta guys get to have, first waiting on HDMI, then 7.1 audio and now with a new audio format coming out, they will get to look forward to Atoms for a few years. smile.gif

Ah but the turtle did win the race right? :-) Actually perhaps unlike many Theta owners, I am not antsy about CB IV HD at all, the CB III HD in my system is perfect for me on both absolute (by itself) and relative (in comparsion) basis. Not to be snobbish but I have heard enough systems to know that mine right now doesn't have a large quality deficiency that needs correction. If I have extra cash, I might even go for Gen VIII before I go for Dirac.

Dirac: The bass response in my room sounds right to my ears, and I will keep an open mind but continue to be leery of sound manipulation (room correction) above the bass frequency range.

Height Channels of new Codec - this one will come to Theta for sure - not 8 years, but perhaps more like 3, ok, 4 :-): Would love to have it and evaluate, but in my room with 8 foot ceiling and around 22 ft (?) total depth , I am not sure if both front and rear height speakers will be separated enough from their earth-bound counterparts to make the effort worthwhile, less than 30 degrees for sure. Will the additional smaller speakers of height information affect the sense of immense clarity and power I now have? Speakers are not rabbits (more is not necessarily better) and I will only add if listening test of trust-worthy reviewers prove the addition worthwhile.
The future is exciting, but I don't feel the need for too much change from what I currently hear. IMHO, introduction of HDMI 1.4 and availability of high resolution codecs (CBIII HD) will prove to be Theta's most significant move in its history, not necessarily Dirac.

Regards, Can
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post #27 of 511 Old 04-04-2014, 01:17 PM
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BMW? The best car they ever built was 2002 series. Been downhill ever since.

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco
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post #28 of 511 Old 04-05-2014, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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BMW? The best car they ever built was 2002 series. Been downhill ever since.

One bonus: my M3 comes with Dirac Live sound engineering. Not just some surround sound generation, Dirac Live itself. Yeah about time I drop the bomb - sorry BigBrother, I am THE first Theta owner to have Dirac in his system. :-) In case anyone is wondering about my opinion, I would say I am equally leery of sound manipulation/"room" correction above bass frequency, in cars as well as in homes. Of the 3 systems in our cars, Mark Levinson in the wife's Lexus SUV, Bose in the Porsche, and Dirac in the BMW, I would rank the Levinson system highest, although I **turn off** the sound processing in ALL 3 cars. For music listening in the car, I do not hear the advantage of Dirac (or Levinson & Bose) sound processing.

But, tjk, yes, each generation of BMW has become more Lexus like, whereas the opposite is happening with Cadillac, and Lexus itself. Who would have thought, our grandfather's Cardillac. That said, my M3 with V8 and hydraulic (not electric) assisted steering is a TERROR of a sports sedan, with fantastic steering response and cornering speed.

>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.dirac.se/en/reference-products/bmw-products.aspx
3 Series
Dirac Live® is featured in the Individual High End Audio System option from 2008 year's model and forward.
What is Dirac Live?
Loudspeakers and rooms in which they are placed inevitably introduce coloration on the reproduced
sound. These colorations are sometimes very difficult or impossible to remove with traditional hardware design and room treatments. Dirac Live® is advanced patented software technology that analyzes the speakers as well as the room and corrects these colorations with the purpose of achieving a better sound. We call this "room correction."

Regards, Can
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post #29 of 511 Old 04-06-2014, 04:47 AM
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Hey Cannga, I dunno, I just felt more connected with the road in my 2002, then the later models. I also think Porsche has also lost their way too. I just remember the days in the various auto magazines when they did comparisons, where maybe the Porsche numbers were not the best in the group, but they always seemed to come out on top because the test drivers liked the challenge & fun of driving one. I driven/owned BMW & 911/Boxsters over the years but it seems esp in the 911 Porsche has engineered the soul out of the cars. Although I'll admit the performance has gone up each new model, something seems to be missing with each new model. Maybe it used to take skill to drive one fast, now it doesn't. Sometimes I think they need a switch to turn off all of the electronics they've added to tame the quirks of a 911. But I have to admit, PDK is pretty slick, but do miss going thru the gears myself.
I'll admit, BMW & Porsches are getting better in so many different ways, but they are also losing something too.

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post #30 of 511 Old 04-06-2014, 05:18 AM
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Hey Cannga, I dunno, I just felt more connected with the road in my 2002, then the later models. I also think Porsche has also lost their way too. I just remember the days in the various auto magazines when they did comparisons, where maybe the Porsche numbers were not the best in the group, but they always seemed to come out on top because the test drivers liked the challenge & fun of driving one. I driven/owned BMW & 911/Boxsters over the years but it seems esp in the 911 Porsche has engineered the soul out of the cars. Although I'll admit the performance has gone up each new model, something seems to be missing with each new model. Maybe it used to take skill to drive one fast, now it doesn't. Sometimes I think they need a switch to turn off all of the electronics they've added to tame the quirks of a 911. But I have to admit, PDK is pretty slick, but do miss going thru the gears myself.
I'll admit, BMW & Porsches are getting better in so many different ways, but they are also losing something too.

You're just getting old wink.gif. But so am I and while I agree Porsches are far different cars than the cars of yesteryear, they still have a wonderful soul. A revamped one. I've had older Porsches - all 911s. They are different and my first two were manuals and I loved them. Spent time at Porsche driving school down south to brush up on my heal and toe. A wonderful experience with the Porsche drivers and 2 10 hour track days and class time.

The new Porsches are certainly different, quieter inside and out and certainly more refined than the air cooled models of past. They are true performance cars now. The earlier models were great cars but when you compare to today's car, the tuning, acceleration, cornering are really so much more precise and fun. You can really get into trouble in today's cars. I have my car out at the track infrequently and I am amazed at how it makes an amateur driver like myself look pretty good. IT just explodes out of corners and and like a missile in straightaways! The HUGE ceramic breaks stop sooo fast. For me, it;s everything you'd want in a race car (that can be a daily driver, too).

My current '11 Turbo S only comes PDK and I was ready to try something different from a manual. I'm older and lazier and would never go back to a manual. The precision and speed of shifting in the new PDK is so fast, so instantaneous that when you are going all out, a missed shift or difficulty finding a gear won't happen. It's all on your timing without the gears getting in the way.

And did I say speed? 2.8 seconds to 60 and 10.5 seconds in the 1.4 mile! Ferraris aren't even close (but are gorgeous). I'm a speed guy and this car (the newer Porsches) supplies the high.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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