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post #1 of 26 Old 03-29-2014, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Never before have I been excited this much about what is obviously the future of home theater just by attending one show.

CINEMACON delivered Perfect scalable speckle free Laser Images, Bright artifact free comfortable high framer rate TV, and of Course Atmos and the new DTS open architecture system. Auro however remains a distant third (the 30 foot violin type of thing).
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-30-2014, 07:24 AM
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How did the Barco and Christie 6 module laser 4K projectors look? Now that's a game changer
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-30-2014, 09:59 AM
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Was there anyone else there besides you? JK

Regards, Can
Theta sound: Powerful and full-bodied, stunning 3D soundstage, spooky imaging in "clean & quiet" soundfield. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 & 3914
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post #4 of 26 Old 03-31-2014, 01:43 PM
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Barco claims their new 6-primary color Laser projector can; "replace a dual-stacked setup of xenon-based digital cinema projectors and still offer double 3D brightness in Color3D, while reducing energy levels by 40% while eliminating the need to align and maintain two projectors."

Barco press release......

.
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-31-2014, 04:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I will post a full review....but christies demo was the top. 25% more efficient 3d than barco.
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-31-2014, 06:51 PM
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I wish I went!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-31-2014, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I will post a full review....but christies demo was the top. 25% more efficient 3d than barco.

I guess that Barco is not implementing the Kodak simultaneous 3D technology, that was quite efficient, in any of its LASER projectors. IMAX is not asking for this?
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post #8 of 26 Old 04-01-2014, 02:55 AM
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I wish I went!

Barco and Christie will repeat the Laser projector demos again at the same place in Las Vegas during NAB 2014 - 5th–10th April.
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post #9 of 26 Old 04-02-2014, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Chris Chinnok of Display Central was there and he wrote a good review here[/URL

It explains the Christie presentation well. The Barco is a huge monster with a separate chiller unit the size of a dryer. For home cinema the Christie solution works best.

Christie Takes a Different 6p Laser Projector Approach

March 28, 2014 | Filed under: 3D News Report,4K,CinemaCon 2014,Large Display Report,Pro AV,Products,Projection | No Comment
Chris Chinnock
by: Chris Chinnock

Laser/Hybrid/LED Projection - Both Christie and Barco showed impressive demonstration of their 6-primary (6p) laser projectors aimed at large format cinema applications. But each used a different architecture to get there. We will now take a look at each, but the bottom line – Christie says their approach will perform as well but be less costly and more efficient.

Christie at CinemaCon 14
Christie 6p Theater at CinemaCon 2014

Presentations ran every half hour and were sold out for the entire event. In the demo, Christie’s Senior Director, Product Management, Christie Entertainment Solutions, Dr. Don Shaw, went through a series of PowerPoint slides before screening some content. Avatar was one of the pieces they showed and I must say it was the best screening I have seen being particularly bright, colorful and ghost-free. The content was color timed and delivered at 14 fL per eye.

In Shaw’s presentation, he started by explaining the market need which has been motivating the development of 6p laser solutions. In a nutshell, 3D has been shown too many times at very low light levels, often 3-4 fL when it should be shown at 14 fL. This low light level presentation means we see colors differently than at 14 fL, so the movie must be color graded different for the 3D version. In addition, at this low light level the entire movie can appear dim and muddy and discerning dark details becomes difficult. If audiences are asked to pay a premium, they better get a superior experience, not an inferior one. This is the market problem that needs to be addressed.

On the technical side, the reason the light levels are so low is the inefficiency of current 3D solutions using Xenon light sources. Almost all single projector approaches for 3D cinema today use an alternating left eye / right eye approach flashing these images at up to 144 fps. This can create artifacts that can lead to eyestrain or worse.

Dual projectors are a better approach as they can display the left and right eye images simultaneously on the screen. For their 6p approaches, Barco in using an alternating L/R approach whereas Christie is going down the dual projector path.

One of the key benefits of the 6p approach is that it is not based on polarization. Instead, it uses very narrow color bands (primaries) to display the left and right eye images. For example, one set of RGB primary laser wavelengths is used for the left eye and a second set of RGB laser wavelengths are used for the right eye images. The two red, green or blue wavelengths are separated by 20 nm.

Necsel supplies the lasers for the system with the wavelengths for the six primaries detailed below.
•Left: 465 nm, 547 nm, 657 nm
•Right: 445 nm, 525 nm, 637 nm

Barco does not divulge the exact wavelengths they use in their 6p systems. However, it is believed to be different than what Christie has chosen. As a result, the 3D glasses designed and supplied by Dolby must be different for each system (an indicated on the sides of the glasses). This design is not so easy as both the left and right eye images must have very little cross talk and should create left and right eye images that are about the same in terms of intensity and color balance. Shaw noted that the stereo contrast, not to be confused with the normal contrast ratio measurement mentioned above, is far greater than 1000:1, which means it is essentially imperceptible.

Using a spectral separation approach eliminates one big hassle with polarized 3D systems – the silver screen. This screen is needed to preserve the polarization state, but often can have hot spots that creates non-uniform image intensity across the screen for those sitting to the sides of the theater. With a 6p system, exhibitors can use low or unity gain matte white screens, so off angle viewing is greatly enhanced.

But the real difference between the Christie and Barco approach boils down to efficiency. The results in efficiency, defined as the percentage of light leaving the projector to reaching the eye, is summarized below.

Created with GIMP They CDrefer to the infitec dolby color separation as not compatible with laser and it being only 10% efficient.


As can be seen in the table, Christie says their approach yields an efficiency of 40-45%, while the Barco approach will be about half of that. The reason is that Christie uses a dual-head solution with fiber-optic delivery of the laser light. Dual head means two 3-chip DLP optical modules and projection lenses – essentially two projectors. The lasers are housed in a separate rack with the output delivered to the heads by fiber. This approach allows the system to display left and right eye image simultaneously, which matches the naturally occurring stereoscopic process we experience in real life, and just like IMAX has done it since they started out in 3D cinema.

On the other hand, Barco uses a more typical time sequential, alternating left/right approach on a standard 3-chip DLP optical module and projection lens with lasers that are integrated into the main projection platform. This is coupled to an external cooling system for the lasers. Time sequential means each set of primaries is illuminating the DLP chip set a maximum of 50% of the time, which accounts for an efficiency that is about half that of the Christie simultaneous-illumination approach.

Shaw also noted that they expect their solution to be in the 60-72K lumen per head range, similar to the Barco solution. However, with Christie, it is easy to add laser modules in the rack to get various light level solutions (and redundancy). In fact, when Christie did their commercial run of G.I. Joe Retaliation in partnership with Paramount pictures and AMC Theaters back in March 2013, they had 72K lumens. https://www.display-central.com/free-news/display-daily/revenge-of-the-lamps/

Christie Laser Projector and Fully Populated Laser Module Rack (60K lumens) with Integrated Cooling System
Christie Laser Projector and Fully Populated Laser Module Rack (60K lumens) with Integrated Cooling System

One issue that Christie will have that Barco does not have is alignment of the two projector heads. Shaw does not see this as an issue as they have been selling their Duo system (two projectors) for awhile. This uses a machine vision system to align test patterns and works well, according to Shaw, and will be used for the 6p system too.

One issue that all pure laser systems face is the reduction of speckle to acceptable levels. Barco says they have solved this but has not disclosed how (I was not able to see this as I never got close to the screen). Christie says they have solved the problem as well using “wavelength diversity, judicious screen selection and a bit of secret sauce,” said Shaw. I was able to see the image close up with Christie and you can see a bit of speckle, but it looked very similar to what you get with a Xenon source (yes you get speckle with Xenon too), so should be acceptable.

Neither company has revealed pricing for their 6p laser projection solutions, but Shaw says you can expect the systems to be initially priced at about 10X an equivalent Xenon system. However, Shaw thinks Christie’s approach should result in lower costs as well as higher efficiency. “With the time sequential system, you need more than twice as many lasers to get to the same light to the eye level as with our approach,” explained Shaw. “Our approach requires two projectors compared to a time sequential system, but if you look at the cost of the added laser power vs. the added projector, our approach will be far less expensive on a 3D lumen-for-lumen basis.”

On the other hand, Barco is already installing their solution while Christie says production is planned for Q2 2014. Early units will soon go to undisclosed commercial partners and their first publicly announced install in Seattle is now pushed out to the back half of this year, for reasons that were not related to the projector production.

There will certainly be much debate about these two approaches, but both are viable and will roll out in the market. And that’s good news for exhibitors and audiences alike. –Chris Chinnock
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post #10 of 26 Old 04-02-2014, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

On the other hand, Barco uses a more typical time sequential, alternating left/right approach on a standard 3-chip DLP optical module and projection lens with lasers that are integrated into the main projection platform. This is coupled to an external cooling system for the lasers. Time sequential means each set of primaries is illuminating the DLP chip set a maximum of 50% of the time, which accounts for an efficiency that is about half that of the Christie simultaneous-illumination approach.

Sounds like Christie is taking liberties with the definition of efficiency.

Presumably the Barco lasers are pulsed so power and cooling resources are not wasted for the inactive eye; this is 50% duty cycle, not 50% efficiency.

Noah
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post #11 of 26 Old 04-02-2014, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are some of my laser pics.





crosstalk

Christie much better glasses





minimal light drop

And out of an alien movie.... This is half an Imax laser kit.









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post #12 of 26 Old 04-02-2014, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Sounds like Christie is taking liberties with the definition of efficiency.

Presumably the Barco lasers are pulsed so power and cooling resources are not wasted for the inactive eye; this is 50% duty cycle, not 50% efficiency.

It was visibly brighter take a look above. 2 projectors is nearly double efficient. For that matter NEC has a low lumen solution too, but no dolby glasses yet.

As I said when you see the hobbit 2 in HFR and dual 6p Laser 14 ftl you will not believe your eyes.
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post #13 of 26 Old 04-02-2014, 01:54 PM
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I assume you can still use two Barcos and get the same efficiency as the double Christie projector. Barco DP4K series are also the only projectors capable of 4K 3D, then again there's no content available for that.
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post #14 of 26 Old 04-02-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah but with the small glasses. At the demo the Barco glasses exhibited clouds in the room around the image. The glasses were defective but there is no doubt that the Christie glasses were way better.
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post #15 of 26 Old 04-02-2014, 02:29 PM
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I don't see why dolby wouldn't offer large glasses for barco too if there is a demand for it. Dolby hasn't so far offered larger versions of their glasses because when you increase the size of the lenses you also increase the price dramatically. Infitec sells glasses that look very similar to the ones in your picture, they are reportedly in the hundreds of dollars range compared to the ~18$ price of the standard dolby 3d glasses.
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post #16 of 26 Old 05-03-2014, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I assume you can still use two Barcos and get the same efficiency as the double Christie projector. Barco DP4K series are also the only projectors capable of 4K 3D, then again there's no content available for that.

Actually there area dozen such for the giant screen cinema association .
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post #17 of 26 Old 05-04-2014, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Actually there area dozen such for the giant screen cinema association .


heres one, if you go there those small producers will sell 3d 4k films n3d and others....

http://www.inparkmagazine.com/migrating-butterflies-how-sk-films-enabled-flight-of-the-butterflies-to-migrate-to-eight-cinematic-exhibition-platforms/
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post #18 of 26 Old 05-05-2014, 11:15 AM
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Was there anyone else there besides you? JK

I was there with him.
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post #19 of 26 Old 05-06-2014, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Thus far at that show Taker and I were on the same wavelength...right? You agree on them lasers, also we lucked out with the light doublers TD from reald down all 4 spec 35 feet minimum distance, Taker walked in a room and said Wait? this is NOT 35 feet and it works! I took out my measuring tape (i Know NERRRDDD) and we measured 20 feet ideal for HT!
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post #20 of 26 Old 05-06-2014, 03:46 PM
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smile.gif
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Thus far at that show Taker and I were on the same wavelength...right? You agree on them lasers, also we lucked out with the light doublers TD from reald down all 4 spec 35 feet minimum distance, Taker walked in a room and said Wait? this is NOT 35 feet and it works! I took out my measuring tape (i Know NERRRDDD) and we measured 20 feet ideal for HT!

Yes, the Christie Laser demo was amazing ,light output was the best I've seen for 3D, lookout for Christie there Demo was way better than the Barco Laser. The Christie 3D glasses were great , the Barcos' were cloudy and too small. When I walked into the light doubler room and saw the distance I knew would work in my theater. We both looked at the guy and knew that he was mistaken about the the distance. You should of been there and seen the look at the reps face when Peter took out his tape measure and started measuring the distance to the screen, it was priceless.
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post #21 of 26 Old 05-06-2014, 07:58 PM
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Peter that's some power you got locked in your pocket;-)

9200000009978609.jpg


Of course you got the extra wide model to sport the extra long overhang.
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post #22 of 26 Old 05-06-2014, 08:02 PM
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What is this light doubler?
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post #23 of 26 Old 05-06-2014, 08:05 PM
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Those glasses appear to be twice as large an area as the Barco's, so there must be serious yield issues they can cut around wwith the standard size for them to be ten times as expensive. That's if/when people start ordering these in bulk.
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post #24 of 26 Old 05-06-2014, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Wide and with imperial / metric readings. biggrin.gif
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post #25 of 26 Old 05-06-2014, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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A light doubler is an original design of realD that recycles the light that bounce off the back of a polarizer by sending the image one more time through a second polarizer that sits atop the first. Both polarizers must converge on screen.

That is why there is a minimum throw distance of 35 feet on the realD and all 3 knockoffs except the one we found the fluke on.
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post #26 of 26 Old 05-07-2014, 06:48 AM
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