Theta Casablanca - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwinterberg View Post

That's right. From the CB manual, page 59:
The side speaker information is an exact replica of the left/right surround channels. In the speaker configuration menu, they can be turned on and off. Their levels and delays can be individually adjusted in the levels and delays submenus.

Does this mean the crossover point of "Surround" speakers is applied to "Side"? If not, that means "Side" is always full range?

If no one knows the answer, I could dust off my trusty Yamaha equalizer with spectrum analyzer from the attic smile.gif.

Regards, Can
Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and Diagrams & Surround Speaker Rec. Here
Give vinyl and tube gears a try - the sound from heaven :-).
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Old 04-19-2014, 09:09 PM
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I don't know how else to interpret "exact replica". I haven't measured the output so I can't say for sure but my sides are smallish two ways and the surround crossover is at 80 Hz and that's what I'm hearing. I'm pretty sure I'd hear distortion if they were trying to play full range.
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Old 04-20-2014, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwinterberg View Post

I don't know how else to interpret "exact replica". I haven't measured the output so I can't say for sure but my sides are smallish two ways and the surround crossover is at 80 Hz and that's what I'm hearing. I'm pretty sure I'd hear distortion if they were trying to play full range.
That is indeed in the manual but I'm not sure it it's still accurate. That exact language is in the Casablanca TWO manual around the same page number. When the CBII was current, there would not have been post-processing available to Casablanca owners to create additional channels and they were likely just copies of the surround channels. However, since the CB3HD, I don't know if that is still true. DDPL2x or DTS Neo6 should be being used to create the additional channels today.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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Old 04-20-2014, 01:06 PM
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Good point, I was focused on the crossovers but you must be correct in the synthesis of the side channels from 5.1 source or the playback of 7.1. In fact quoting again from that good book, the CB manual:

If the incoming signal is Dolby Digital 5.1, and the user desires to create sides or a center surround channel, use the +SPKR (or Additional Speakers) parameter to indicate which MODE will be used to create them. There are a limited amount of modes that can do this.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:31 AM
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We need to ask J. Bale on this one. I hooked up my Yamaha equalier with spectrum display to test, but was not able to determine the answer with 100% certainty.

My system is set with SURROUND cut-off frequency at 80 hz, the SIDE cut-off is unknown as per our discussion so far. I hooked up my (cheap) Yamaha spectrum analyzer to the line-level output of Casablanca to test. The spectrum analyzer has bar graph displays at various frequencies, the lowest being 30 and 60, and those 2 both lighted up with both "SURROUND" and "SIDE" outputs during Super 8's train wreck sequence. It would seem there was signal at 30 hz from the SURROUND output even though I set cut-off at 80; my method of measurement does not seem refined enough.

The SIDE out did light up a lot more, but this could be from its mix being louder than SURROUND. I tried the Theta's internally generated noise source, but that didn't generate any low freq that I could measure. I guess I could use wide frequency test tone if I want to test further, but I don't think it would yield a precise answer.

Regards, Can
Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and Diagrams & Surround Speaker Rec. Here
Give vinyl and tube gears a try - the sound from heaven :-).
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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So, if that LR sides are the same as the LR surrounds....then if I have a 7.1 audio track on a blu ray....the Casa will still only decode it as 5.1?
The casa can't decode discrete 7.1?
Will the IV be able to do that?
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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If the side info is exactly the same as the surround LR,
then does that mean the casa can't decode 7.1 discrete.
I have a 7 channel amp, wanted to try 7.1, but it sounds like the casa III does not decode discrete 7.1, if the surround sides mirror the surrounds?
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

If the side info is exactly the same as the surround LR,
then does that mean the casa can't decode 7.1 discrete.
I have a 7 channel amp, wanted to try 7.1, but it sounds like the casa III does not decode discrete 7.1, if the surround sides mirror the surrounds?

To best of my knowledge:

1. If source is 7.1, for example 7.1 DTS, Theta does decode 7.1 discrete.
2. If source is 5.1, for example 5.1 DTS, and your Theta is set to generate/post process to 7.1, Theta will post process to 7.1, with the 2 rear speakers being mono (in other words, it's more like 6.1).

If you click the link in my signature, it leads to a discussion and test suggested by Roger Dressler and Sanjay's comments that address number 2 above.
Bottom line: not to worry. You are in good shape with CBIII HD.

Regards, Can
Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and Diagrams & Surround Speaker Rec. Here
Give vinyl and tube gears a try - the sound from heaven :-).
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Old 05-06-2014, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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So if it does decode 7.1 discrete, then it would matter where I place the sides.
Because if it's being decoded as 7.1 discrete, those sides are 'surround backs' in 7.1, right.
In Theta world, those are just sides that duplicate the 'surrounds', but in 7.1 discrete, those 'sides'
would be surround back...and places in a different place, right?
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:21 AM
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Not sure I understand your questions, but... look at my previous post below. Does this help?
First, you have to forget about normal naming of surround vs. side, etc.; this is Theta, and naming has to follow Theta's world :-).
Note well the tricky part of how D&E are connected to Surround in 5.1 setup, and Side in 7.1 setup!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

I got the pic below from the web and add my own label in red - hope this would help.

In a Casablanca 5.1 System - Surrounds are on, Sides are off, arbitrarily.
You will have sound only on the channels labeled "Surround." Nothing on the channels labeled "Side."
D is connected to the output that is Surround Left
E is Surround Right
I don't want to confuse everyone, but just let me touch on it briefly: the naming is Surround, yes, but the actual placement of D and E could be anywhere you find applicable. For movie 5.1, D and E of course would be more to the side; for SACD music 5.1, D and E would be pulled back to the rear.

In a Casablanca 7.1 System (You activate the 7.1 system by turning on the **SIDE** speakers in setup.):
D is connected to the output that is "Side Left":
E is Side Right
F is Surround Left
G is Surround Right
Note well that in a 7.1 setup, if you switch system to 5.1 mode, D & E will be turned off, not F and G.

In a Casablanca 6.1 System
I don't have a 6.1 setup but my guess is that Surround Center would be H.


Regards, Can
Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and Diagrams & Surround Speaker Rec. Here
Give vinyl and tube gears a try - the sound from heaven :-).
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I see the diagram...and I get that....but
in other 7.1 set ups...and in decoding 7.1 discrete...the diagram I've enclosed shows the opposite...the surrounds are on the side, the surround backs, or sides or in the 'back'!
So the set up is different is the BluRay has 7.1 and the Casa decodes it as such?
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:03 PM
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^^^Yes, just follow *exactly* what I posted above in post 40, ignore all other name conventions & setups. Use my chart only - nothing else, and you will be perfect for 7.1 Bluray, for 5.1 Bluray, for SACD, etc.

Then put in Super 8 and I guarantee the sound will knock you out. In a good way, I mean.tongue.gif

Regards, Can
Theta: Stunning 3D soundstage, sublime details, unlimited dynamics and low end response - the processor for music lovers. My system & CBIII HD review & setup help - Post # 3913 and Diagrams & Surround Speaker Rec. Here
Give vinyl and tube gears a try - the sound from heaven :-).
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