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post #1 of 42 Old 04-16-2014, 09:16 AM - Thread Starter
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If I have 3 cards in the Casablanca....is it possible to set say the '3rd' card as surrounds as well as the second card..and run 2 different speakers as surrounds. Not side backs...but surrounds. So one set of speakers could be for music surruonds, one for movies?
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post #2 of 42 Old 04-16-2014, 10:50 AM
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Yes, to best of my knowledge (and turn off the amp to whichever speakers that you don't want on). I believe I did something similar in my Premium vs. Extreme shootout: I set both of these 2 cards in my CBIII HD to output Main L & R channels, then compared them.

Regards, Can
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post #3 of 42 Old 04-16-2014, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok...now with that being said...in each of the imputs setup's...could I tell the Casablanca which surrounds to use for say imput 1, and the other dac's surrounds for imput 2?
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post #4 of 42 Old 04-16-2014, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

Ok...now with that being said...in each of the imputs setup's...could I tell the Casablanca which surrounds to use for say imput 1, and the other dac's surrounds for imput 2?

That's what you can't do. As Cannga said you will have to control which surrounds are powered by using a separate amp

When you configure the DAC cards for their channel assignment you are telling them which data street to process. The CB only has channels for surrounds and does not differentiate between music and movie surround channels. You will have to have both of your surrounds processing the same audio information and provide some external switching capability, such as two separate amps as suggested.
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post #5 of 42 Old 04-16-2014, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a 7 channel amp, and only 5 channels are being used.....I'm losing you somehow with the seperate amp situation.
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post #6 of 42 Old 04-16-2014, 06:07 PM
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Following is what JJ and I meant, I think :-).
4 speakers involved:
Surround Card A to Amp A = For Surround Speakers Music L and Music R
Surround Card B to Amp B = For Surround Speakers Movie L and Movie R

If you are going to run 2 cards with identical surround channels, you have to have the ability to turn Amp A off when you listen to movies, and Amp B off when you listen to music. Could your 7 channel amp turn off each channel independently?

A more simple way is to use one amp, and have a speaker switcher, that switches between the 2 pairs. This way you don't even need a second surround card. Am I guessing right you are doing this because the surround speakers are in different positions depending on whether it's music or movie?

Regards, Can
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post #7 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Not only are they in different positions...but I would use different speakers...for music surround and for movies. But yes, I never thought of a switcher for the speakers....and I'll check into that. Thanks
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post #8 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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New question...I was going to the DAC assign , and on my 3rd DAC...what does SDL / SDR stand for? I was thinking about using this DAC as a surround back channel. I get many Sub options...but wasn't sure what it should be on if I want rear, or back surrounds?
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post #9 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 12:52 PM
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Side L & R
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post #10 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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So that is the same as surround back L/R? For a 7.1 set up?
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post #11 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 01:57 PM
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My CB has a digital output card and it is the only card that shows SDL/SDR and that is side left and right. It shows the "surrounds" as SL/SR. On my Extreme cards the channels are indicated as SURLT and SURRT for the surrounds and SIDEL / SIDER for the side channels.

I assume that the back surround and surround are the same for a 7.1 system. I must admit I have experienced some ambiguity on certain Blu-ray movies as to where the predominate surround information comes from either the sides or rear but I have the ES processing turned on to create side information from 5.1 tracks so I haven't been too particular about that yet.

The easiest way to sort this out is to use the noise generator. Enable the surround and see which speaker it plays from.
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post #12 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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SURLT and SURRT are what my DAC shows for regular surround, but I don't get SIDEL or SIDER. I'll hook up some cables to those channels and see what I get!
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post #13 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 02:55 PM
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You have a 4 channel card, correct? In a 4 channel card (Premium and Extreme), you should see this as a choice: SURROUND Left + Right, SIDE Left + Right. In a 3 channel card, you will not see SURROUND Left + Right because, there are only 3 channels. http://www.thetadigital.com/casablanca_iii_controller_specifications.shtml#dac_cards

One more thing to know about the naming convention of Theta; the following was very very confusing to me at first, it migt be to you too. This is how I remember it off hand (I am not home now):

In a 5.1 system: the only 2 surround speakers are hooked up to the SURROUND channels.
In a 7.1 system: the speakers on the side are hooked up to the SIDE channels, where are the rear speakers are hooked up to the SURROUND chanels.

Regards, Can
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post #14 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post

You have a 4 channel card, correct? In a 4 channel card (Premium and Extreme), you should see this as a choice: SURROUND Left + Right, SIDE Left + Right. In a 3 channel card, you will not see SURROUND Left + Right because, there are only 3 channels. http://www.thetadigital.com/casablanca_iii_controller_specifications.shtml#dac_cards

Cannga,

Looks like the Superior II supports the side channels. It could be that the legacy cards (Superior I) doesn't.
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post #15 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjwinterberg View Post

Cannga,

Looks like the Superior II supports the side channels. It could be that the legacy cards (Superior I) doesn't.
It does. I had those cards in my first Casablanca. It's a three channel card and I used the third channel for a sub channel. Typically a set-up with say 3 Superior II cards would run, Front Left and Right, and Center on the first card, surround left and right and maybe sub1, on the second card, and side left and side right, plus sub 2 on the third card. That's typical set-ups for both Superior II and Superior I cards.

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post #16 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

Ok...now with that being said...in each of the imputs setup's...could I tell the Casablanca which surrounds to use for say imput 1, and the other dac's surrounds for imput 2?
No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

SURLT and SURRT are what my DAC shows for regular surround, but I don't get SIDEL or SIDER. I'll hook up some cables to those channels and see what I get!
Do you have the side channels turned on?

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post #17 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I do not have the side channels turned on...so I need to go back into set up and do that.
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post #18 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Is there a way in set to see exactly what cards I DO have...I have the III HD, and I know I have the Premium in slot 1, and I think I have older DAC's from the III in slot 2 and 3
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post #19 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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And what is 'surround center"?
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post #20 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

Is there a way in set to see exactly what cards I DO have...I have the III HD, and I know I have the Premium in slot 1, and I think I have older DAC's from the III in slot 2 and 3
Look at page 52 of the manual. "DAC Configuration
Pressing button # 5 allows the user to view the channels assigned to each DAC card. This is an information page only
and may not be edited. As an example, the first page will say “LEFT FRONT CEN” if a three-channel Standard or
Superior balanced DAC card is in DAC slot # 1. Press the A-D button to view the channels assigned to the second
DAC card. Press the A-D once more for the third DAC card, if installed. Press SET-UP once to exit this menu..."

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post #21 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

And what is 'surround center"?
Surround center is sort of "throw back" to the Dolby Digital EX days where you used DSP processing to drive a rear center signal or played it back when it was encoded on the disc. This was a good movie for DTS ES which also has a rear center http://www.walmart.com/ip/Lord-Of-War-Blu-ray-Widescreen/4857988

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post #22 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I heard back from John B at ATI....and I still don't understand what SL / SR are? Side L and Side R. I get those options on my 3rd DAC. If it's not surround back...or front side..then what is is? How do you use it?
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post #23 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 05:53 PM
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Page 94 of the CB manual shows a typical speaker placement. A 7.x system would normally have two surrounds placed behind the listening position (L & R surrounds) and two speakers located on either side of the listening position (side L & R).
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post #24 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 08:16 PM
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I got the pic below from the web and add my own label in red - hope this would help.

In a Casablanca 5.1 System - Surrounds are on, Sides are off, arbitrarily.
You will have sound only on the channels labeled "Surround." Nothing on the channels labeled "Side."
D is connected to the output that is Surround Left
E is Surround Right
I don't want to confuse everyone, but just let me touch on it briefly: the naming is Surround, yes, but the actual placement of D and E could be anywhere you find applicable. For movie 5.1, D and E of course would be more to the side; for SACD music 5.1, D and E would be pulled back to the rear.

In a Casablanca 7.1 System (You activate the 7.1 system by turning on the **SIDE** speakers in setup.):
D is connected to the output that is "Side Left":
E is Side Right
F is Surround Left
G is Surround Right

In a Casablanca 6.1 System
I don't have a 6.1 setup but my guess is that Surround Center would be H.


Regards, Can
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post #25 of 42 Old 04-17-2014, 09:31 PM
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dancjo, it's as if Theta designed the system with you in mind :-) now that I think about it. This is what we call destiny my friend; don't waste time with the second best's - jk.

If you look at the "World According to Theta" chart above, you could see that there is no need for a speaker switcher, or extra amp, or extra anything, for what you are trying to do. If I am guessing your intention correctly, you would set up these inputs:
Input 1 with 7.1 speakers for multi channel movie
Input 2 with 5.1 speakers for multi channel music - as you switch from Input 1 to Input 2, magically your higher quality speakers in more proper music surround position, F & G, are selected, and D & E are turned off.
(Input 3 with 2 speakers in Matrix mode for stereo, etc..)

What are ideal angles/positions for F and G for music? Further apart than F & G above, but further back in distance? You could set up F and G to be more applicable to music - spread them out more, and coincidentally the longer distance to the back would still produce that nice rearward soundfield "pull"/bias of movie 7.1 rear speakers.

Regards, Can
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post #26 of 42 Old 04-18-2014, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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THANKS....that worked...and it's working. I had to go in and adjust the Dolby Digital and DTS to add extra speakers....and boast the levels....but
I don't see a way for me to adjust the crossover's etc, on the sides like I can with the other speakers. When I press the button under the SIDEL or SIDER, I don't get the menu to adjust crossover type, etc.
Maybe that can't be done on sides?
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post #27 of 42 Old 04-18-2014, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Also...side these settings I just made are for side L/R, I'm betting they type of speakers doesn't have to be a critical?
I'm running Magnepan's as 5.1 set up now...but don't want 2 more Maggie's as sides...so will have to get an on wall direct firing speaker.
Any suggestions?
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post #28 of 42 Old 04-19-2014, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

THANKS....that worked...and it's working. I had to go in and adjust the Dolby Digital and DTS to add extra speakers....and boast the levels....but
I don't see a way for me to adjust the crossover's etc, on the sides like I can with the other speakers. When I press the button under the SIDEL or SIDER, I don't get the menu to adjust crossover type, etc.
Maybe that can't be done on sides?

Casablanca is like a box of chocolate... tongue.gif Good question; I don't think so but not 100% sure. Does anyone know if the sides could be adjusted for crossover frequency?

Regarding the choice of side speakers, IMHO it's not as critical as the front 3, but you don't want to put junk in there either as distortion will mess up the sound of front 3. I was in the middle of remodeling the hometheater and had to choose one quickly; I chose B&W 2 way speaker with 8"/1" drivers, CCM682, because of reputation, the high frequency driver could be adjusted to point directly at my ears (prefer discrete over diffuse sound from the side), and the big driver is 8" not 6". For music I would have picked 6" for better midrange reproduction, but for hometheater side speakers, I figure bigger and louder without distortion is better. The sound of B&W is on the "cold" side and I think would be a good match for your system too. http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Custom_Installation/CI_Series/CCM682.html

Magnaplanar, you too? I am listening at this very moment to 3.5, matched with Sunfire subwoofer (under the Christmas tree :-)), all tube gears.


Regards, Can
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post #29 of 42 Old 04-19-2014, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I wanted something on wall, so I don't have to cut the ceiling and mount.
I'll check out other B&W models...I used to own 803's, and 805's as surrounds..so I know the sound. Here are my 1.7's with their new A/V cabinet
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post #30 of 42 Old 04-19-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancjodanc View Post

THANKS....that worked...and it's working. I had to go in and adjust the Dolby Digital and DTS to add extra speakers....and boast the levels....but
I don't see a way for me to adjust the crossover's etc, on the sides like I can with the other speakers. When I press the button under the SIDEL or SIDER, I don't get the menu to adjust crossover type, etc.
Maybe that can't be done on sides?

That's right. From the CB manual, page 59:

The side speaker information is an exact replica of the left/right surround channels. In the speaker configuration menu, they can be turned on and off. Their levels and delays can be individually adjusted in the levels and delays submenus.
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