AVS Forum

AVS Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/)
-   Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+) (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/)
-   -   DOLBY ATMOS Vs AURO (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/1534192-dolby-atmos-vs-auro.html)

ZIMMERLI THIERRY 06-02-2014 09:36 AM

Who will be the Winner ????????????

CINERAMAX 06-02-2014 10:01 AM

Is there even a competition that I should know about?

The players are Atmos and DTS-UHD the only two object based decoding architectures. The Auro processor has a very competent up-converter for which yes use it! But in order to have the feeling of having the spectators' personal space invaded (TM) by these sonic pirouettes (TM), vs having a just solid 3d Soundstage meters away, you need Atmos or DTS-UHD. The up-converter on the latter was excellent too.

For now in Home cinema you must focus on the up-converters' prowess as 99.99% of content is legacy 5.1 /7.1.Do not worry about which high end processors have Atmos , several will have this future upgrade a year from now.

ZIMMERLI THIERRY 06-02-2014 12:17 PM

Do I change the thread in DOLBY Vs DTS;)

Kain 06-02-2014 12:22 PM

Isn't DTS-UHD for headphones while DTS-MDA (Multi-Dimensional Audio) the "rival" to Dolby Atmos?

CINERAMAX 06-02-2014 01:04 PM

I thought they dropped the MDS as it sounds like a disease, but whatever the USL processor/integrated solid state server was putting out at Cinemacon as the next gen DTS object renderer/upmixer. Shown on 14 speakers in a 20 x 20 booth.

sdurani 06-02-2014 02:55 PM

Dolby and DTS both exist in the consumer audio market. There are 3 different game consoles co-existing in the video game market. No reason why Atmos and Auro can't both have titles on home video (Blu-ray).

When it comes to American movies, Atmos has almost 4x the number of titles that Auro has (52 vs 14). We'll have to see how many of those make it to home video.

dschulz 06-03-2014 04:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I thought they dropped the MDS as it sounds like a disease, but whatever the USL processor/integrated solid state server was putting out at Cinemacon as the next gen DTS object renderer/upmixer. Shown on 14 speakers in a 20 x 20 booth.

MDA is the name for the file format (MDA = Multi-Dimensional Audio), which DTS has put forward in a proposal to SMPTE for adoption as a standard file format for object-based mixes in the cinema space.

On the consumer side, DTS announced at CES that they are developing a consumer format for home video based on MDA, which they are marketing as DTS-UHD.

sdurani 06-03-2014 05:31 PM

Wish they had picked a different name than UHD, since that same term is being used for consumer 4K (partly because it isn't actually 4K pixels across).

dschulz 06-03-2014 06:16 PM

I am assuming their logic is that DTS-HD is the premium soundtrack for HD Video, so DTS-UHD will be the premium soundtrack for UHD video.

sdurani 06-03-2014 08:16 PM

Strange logic, considering one is a data compression and the other is object-based audio. I'll be curious to see how they label the soundtrack when both technologies are used together: i.e., the sound objects in a DTS-UHD soundtrack are stored using DTS-HD compression (as opposed to compressing the soundtrack using legacy DTS, for example, for downloads).

kimg1453 06-03-2014 08:18 PM

That would be a terrible mistake if the DTS-UHD was only going to be implemented for 4K and no consideration for 1080P Blu-ray. That logic would not hold especially since the future of 4K is not really known at this point and certainly not intrenched.

blazar 06-03-2014 09:20 PM

Atmos seems to make auro irrelevant. It's too bad considering how much effort must have gone into auro and all...

I hope the first atmos pre-pro's do around 20+ channels so some serious home attempts can be made by at least some people. They need demos where a room can switch from 7 channel to 24 channel in order to make a good impression.

CINERAMAX 06-04-2014 08:28 AM

Well trinnov will do 32, datasat 24 or 48 ganged.

noah katz 06-04-2014 11:41 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Well trinnov will do 32, datasat 24 or 48 ganged.

Of limited use w/o input channels to do it to.

thebland 06-04-2014 12:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Of limited use w/o input channels to do it to.

Not so.. In my reading, there is up-mixing internally to 11.1 (or more) on any sound track and Auro can put a discrete 11.1 ch mix in a 7.1 DTS or Dolby True HD codec (which can be accessed with an Auro decoder).

SoundChex 06-04-2014 12:51 PM

Don't forget that in addition to Dolby's "object based audio hockey game demo" at NAB 2014, Fraunhofer was demoing their candidate system for the channels based plus hybrid channels|objects based component of the forthcoming mpeg-H 3D audio standard . . . which itself will likely be a strong contender for the audio element of ATSC 3.0 TV system.

This still from an auto race video demo of the hybrid channels|objects based Fraunhofer Interactive 3D Audio System for TV (link) playing a 7.1 + 4 Height Channels + 4 Objects audio in a Scott Wilkinson report from the floor of the 2014 NAB Show in Las Vegas, TWiT Live Specials 197: NAB Show 2014 Part 1 (link) (play video from 21:21 through 23:45) shows the user interface to manage parts of the 'object based audio benefits' which DTS-UHD extols thus:

  • Environmentally compensated audio rendering allows consumers to hear audio directionality and dimensionality more precise than ever before possible
  • Object control enables consumers to interact with key objects within the audio mix and adjust them to preference

The volume for each of the four user-interactive audio objects 'visible' in the demo can be independently "decremented|bumped" to "0% through about 150%" of 'nominal' volume (changeable in real-time, using the TV remote) before all four objects are rendered over the target channels|bed speaker layout (after which the AVR exerts collective master volume control).




Quote:
The Fraunhofer website currently shows a more sophisticated version of the user interface, presumably associated with a revised version of the software:

_

noah katz 06-04-2014 01:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Not so.. In my reading, there is up-mixing internally to 11.1 (or more) on any sound track and Auro can put a discrete 11.1 ch mix in a 7.1 DTS or Dolby True HD codec (which can be accessed with an Auro decoder).

Right; that's great and enough channels for me, but I was responding to
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Well trinnov will do 32, datasat 24 or 48 ganged.

thebland 06-04-2014 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Right; that's great and enough channels for me, but I was responding to

Yes. And that would be better. The Trinnov is pretty amazing. I tried side front speakers with it and it was an amazing addition despite no discrete tracks for such.

noah katz 06-04-2014 02:20 PM

Sounds like what would normally be called Wides; what height and angle from the centerline are they, and what did they add?

thebland 06-04-2014 02:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Sounds like what would normally be called Wides; what height and angle from the centerline are they, and what did they add?

In a line between my L and R speakers aimed at the listening position. They greatly expanded the soundstage yet kept the center information still anchored. It was particularly excellent in live concerts. When I put my ear to them, they were barely playing but it was a dramatic experience at my seat.

noah katz 06-04-2014 02:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

In a line between my L and R speakers aimed at the listening position.

Wouldn't that be in the center?

Do you mean in a line between R and R side surround, and between L and L side surround?

thebland 06-04-2014 03:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Wouldn't that be in the center?

Do you mean in a line between R and R side surround, and between L and L side surround?

Sorry.:)Between my L and R front speakers and sides. Equidistant.

CINERAMAX 06-05-2014 07:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Of limited use w/o input channels to do it to.

For an Atmos or DTS=UHD render, not of limited use.

The Bogg 06-05-2014 09:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Yes. And that would be better. The Trinnov is pretty amazing. I tried side front speakers with it and it was an amazing addition despite no discrete tracks for such.

If there is no discrete signal then what signal feeds the side fronts? i.e. is it just a delayed version of the fronts, something synthesized, something else???

sdurani 06-05-2014 11:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

If there is no discrete signal then what signal feeds the side fronts? i.e. is it just a delayed version of the fronts, something synthesized, something else???
Depends on the surround processing being used. Audyssey DSX sends delayed & processed versions of the front L/R speaker feeds to their wide speakers in order to simulate the type of early reflections heard in a concert hall. DTS Neo:X extracts information that is common to the fronts and sides in order to feed their wide speakers (like extracting a centre output between those two channels). Trinnov is conceptually closer to what Neo:X is doing but without the logic steering, more like what higher order Ambisonics used to do.

The Bogg 06-05-2014 12:25 PM

gotcha, thanks.

SoundChex 06-05-2014 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

If there is no discrete signal then what signal feeds the side fronts? i.e. is it just a delayed version of the fronts, something synthesized, something else???
Depends on the surround processing being used. Audyssey DSX sends delayed & processed versions of the front L/R speaker feeds to their wide speakers in order to simulate the type of early reflections heard in a concert hall. DTS Neo:X extracts information that is common to the fronts and sides in order to feed their wide speakers (like extracting a centre output between those two channels). Trinnov is conceptually closer to what Neo:X is doing but without the logic steering, more like what higher order Ambisonics used to do.

We'll have to wait and see if the mass-consumer version of DTS-UHD supports remapping the 'bed' to include a Front Left|Right wide (FLw|FRw) speaker pair -- with subsequent object rendering across the complete five front speaker panoply (FLw - FL - FC - FR - FRw) -- as a part of DTS goal (link) to deliver "Customized rendering designed for arbitrary speaker layouts enables consumers to adapt their AV system to their own home environment rather than pre-determined speaker layouts"...?!

Remixing The Phantom Menace Pod Race scenes to include perhaps as few as two dynamic objects associated with the (current) two loudest on-screen pod-racers could deliver a spectacular improvement to the playback acoustics in a 5.1 + 2x Front Wide speaker configuration!
_

thebland 06-05-2014 02:33 PM

In setting up front wide left and right speakers, I found the front wides to be most compelling with live concerts. I preferred a more narrow soundstage with films. I temporarily set up wides for a few weeks while I had the MC. That said, having wides in the set up is far better than without them.

blazar 06-07-2014 10:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

In setting up front wide left and right speakers, I found the front wides to be most compelling with live concerts. I preferred a more narrow soundstage with films. I temporarily set up wides for a few weeks while I had the MC. That said, having wides in the set up is far better than without them.

While this is true that wides seem to make the most impact, having speakers all the way around actually feels more seamless overall when done right.

The more speakers in your theater, the better the sense of envelopment becomes. When it is totally seamless you get the sense that all the surround speakers "dissapear" and become truly non-localizable. The suspension if disbelief improves substantially with a critical mass of speakers for a given size room.

5.1 is simply an afterthought for me at this point. It simply sounds terrible in comparison.

BrolicBeast 06-10-2014 06:46 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Remixing The Phantom Menace Pod Race scenes to include perhaps as few as two dynamic objects associated with the (current) two loudest on-screen pod-racers could deliver a spectacular improvement to the playback acoustics in a 5.1 + 2x Front Wide speaker configuration!
_

This is the future of the cinema experience. i appreciate your input on the storm thread and discovering this thread is giving me a lot more to read on the matter.  Loving the BSG reference in your sig, BTW.



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:27 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.