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post #1 of 204 Old 06-02-2014, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Who will be the Winner ????????????
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post #2 of 204 Old 06-02-2014, 10:01 AM
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Is there even a competition that I should know about?

The players are Atmos and DTS-UHD the only two object based decoding architectures. The Auro processor has a very competent up-converter for which yes use it! But in order to have the feeling of having the spectators' personal space invaded (TM) by these sonic pirouettes (TM), vs having a just solid 3d Soundstage meters away, you need Atmos or DTS-UHD. The up-converter on the latter was excellent too.

For now in Home cinema you must focus on the up-converters' prowess as 99.99% of content is legacy 5.1 /7.1.Do not worry about which high end processors have Atmos , several will have this future upgrade a year from now.
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post #3 of 204 Old 06-02-2014, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Do I change the thread in DOLBY Vs DTS;)
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post #4 of 204 Old 06-02-2014, 12:22 PM
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Isn't DTS-UHD for headphones while DTS-MDA (Multi-Dimensional Audio) the "rival" to Dolby Atmos?
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post #5 of 204 Old 06-02-2014, 01:04 PM
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I thought they dropped the MDS as it sounds like a disease, but whatever the USL processor/integrated solid state server was putting out at Cinemacon as the next gen DTS object renderer/upmixer. Shown on 14 speakers in a 20 x 20 booth.
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post #6 of 204 Old 06-02-2014, 02:55 PM
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Dolby and DTS both exist in the consumer audio market. There are 3 different game consoles co-existing in the video game market. No reason why Atmos and Auro can't both have titles on home video (Blu-ray).

When it comes to American movies, Atmos has almost 4x the number of titles that Auro has (52 vs 14). We'll have to see how many of those make it to home video.

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post #7 of 204 Old 06-03-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I thought they dropped the MDS as it sounds like a disease, but whatever the USL processor/integrated solid state server was putting out at Cinemacon as the next gen DTS object renderer/upmixer. Shown on 14 speakers in a 20 x 20 booth.

MDA is the name for the file format (MDA = Multi-Dimensional Audio), which DTS has put forward in a proposal to SMPTE for adoption as a standard file format for object-based mixes in the cinema space.

On the consumer side, DTS announced at CES that they are developing a consumer format for home video based on MDA, which they are marketing as DTS-UHD.
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post #8 of 204 Old 06-03-2014, 05:31 PM
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Wish they had picked a different name than UHD, since that same term is being used for consumer 4K (partly because it isn't actually 4K pixels across).

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post #9 of 204 Old 06-03-2014, 06:16 PM
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I am assuming their logic is that DTS-HD is the premium soundtrack for HD Video, so DTS-UHD will be the premium soundtrack for UHD video.
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post #10 of 204 Old 06-03-2014, 08:16 PM
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Strange logic, considering one is a data compression and the other is object-based audio. I'll be curious to see how they label the soundtrack when both technologies are used together: i.e., the sound objects in a DTS-UHD soundtrack are stored using DTS-HD compression (as opposed to compressing the soundtrack using legacy DTS, for example, for downloads).

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post #11 of 204 Old 06-03-2014, 08:18 PM
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That would be a terrible mistake if the DTS-UHD was only going to be implemented for 4K and no consideration for 1080P Blu-ray. That logic would not hold especially since the future of 4K is not really known at this point and certainly not intrenched.
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post #12 of 204 Old 06-03-2014, 09:20 PM
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Atmos seems to make auro irrelevant. It's too bad considering how much effort must have gone into auro and all...

I hope the first atmos pre-pro's do around 20+ channels so some serious home attempts can be made by at least some people. They need demos where a room can switch from 7 channel to 24 channel in order to make a good impression.

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post #13 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 08:28 AM
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Well trinnov will do 32, datasat 24 or 48 ganged.
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post #14 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 11:41 AM
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Well trinnov will do 32, datasat 24 or 48 ganged.

Of limited use w/o input channels to do it to.
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post #15 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 12:42 PM
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Of limited use w/o input channels to do it to.

Not so.. In my reading, there is up-mixing internally to 11.1 (or more) on any sound track and Auro can put a discrete 11.1 ch mix in a 7.1 DTS or Dolby True HD codec (which can be accessed with an Auro decoder).

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post #16 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 12:51 PM
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Don't forget that in addition to Dolby's "object based audio hockey game demo" at NAB 2014, Fraunhofer was demoing their candidate system for the channels based plus hybrid channels|objects based component of the forthcoming mpeg-H 3D audio standard . . . which itself will likely be a strong contender for the audio element of ATSC 3.0 TV system.

This still from an auto race video demo of the hybrid channels|objects based Fraunhofer Interactive 3D Audio System for TV (link) playing a 7.1 + 4 Height Channels + 4 Objects audio in a Scott Wilkinson report from the floor of the 2014 NAB Show in Las Vegas, TWiT Live Specials 197: NAB Show 2014 Part 1 (link) (play video from 21:21 through 23:45) shows the user interface to manage parts of the 'object based audio benefits' which DTS-UHD extols thus:

  • Environmentally compensated audio rendering allows consumers to hear audio directionality and dimensionality more precise than ever before possible
  • Object control enables consumers to interact with key objects within the audio mix and adjust them to preference

The volume for each of the four user-interactive audio objects 'visible' in the demo can be independently "decremented|bumped" to "0% through about 150%" of 'nominal' volume (changeable in real-time, using the TV remote) before all four objects are rendered over the target channels|bed speaker layout (after which the AVR exerts collective master volume control).




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The Fraunhofer website currently shows a more sophisticated version of the user interface, presumably associated with a revised version of the software:

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post #17 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 01:59 PM
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Not so.. In my reading, there is up-mixing internally to 11.1 (or more) on any sound track and Auro can put a discrete 11.1 ch mix in a 7.1 DTS or Dolby True HD codec (which can be accessed with an Auro decoder).

Right; that's great and enough channels for me, but I was responding to
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Well trinnov will do 32, datasat 24 or 48 ganged.

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post #18 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 02:06 PM
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Right; that's great and enough channels for me, but I was responding to

Yes. And that would be better. The Trinnov is pretty amazing. I tried side front speakers with it and it was an amazing addition despite no discrete tracks for such.

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post #19 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 02:20 PM
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Sounds like what would normally be called Wides; what height and angle from the centerline are they, and what did they add?

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post #20 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 02:27 PM
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Sounds like what would normally be called Wides; what height and angle from the centerline are they, and what did they add?

In a line between my L and R speakers aimed at the listening position. They greatly expanded the soundstage yet kept the center information still anchored. It was particularly excellent in live concerts. When I put my ear to them, they were barely playing but it was a dramatic experience at my seat.
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post #21 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 02:40 PM
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In a line between my L and R speakers aimed at the listening position.

Wouldn't that be in the center?

Do you mean in a line between R and R side surround, and between L and L side surround?

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post #22 of 204 Old 06-04-2014, 03:09 PM
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Wouldn't that be in the center?

Do you mean in a line between R and R side surround, and between L and L side surround?

Sorry.:)Between my L and R front speakers and sides. Equidistant.

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post #23 of 204 Old 06-05-2014, 07:49 AM
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Of limited use w/o input channels to do it to.

For an Atmos or DTS=UHD render, not of limited use.
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post #24 of 204 Old 06-05-2014, 09:56 AM
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Yes. And that would be better. The Trinnov is pretty amazing. I tried side front speakers with it and it was an amazing addition despite no discrete tracks for such.

If there is no discrete signal then what signal feeds the side fronts? i.e. is it just a delayed version of the fronts, something synthesized, something else???

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post #25 of 204 Old 06-05-2014, 11:28 AM
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If there is no discrete signal then what signal feeds the side fronts? i.e. is it just a delayed version of the fronts, something synthesized, something else???
Depends on the surround processing being used. Audyssey DSX sends delayed & processed versions of the front L/R speaker feeds to their wide speakers in order to simulate the type of early reflections heard in a concert hall. DTS Neo:X extracts information that is common to the fronts and sides in order to feed their wide speakers (like extracting a centre output between those two channels). Trinnov is conceptually closer to what Neo:X is doing but without the logic steering, more like what higher order Ambisonics used to do.

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post #26 of 204 Old 06-05-2014, 12:25 PM
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gotcha, thanks.

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post #27 of 204 Old 06-05-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

If there is no discrete signal then what signal feeds the side fronts? i.e. is it just a delayed version of the fronts, something synthesized, something else???
Depends on the surround processing being used. Audyssey DSX sends delayed & processed versions of the front L/R speaker feeds to their wide speakers in order to simulate the type of early reflections heard in a concert hall. DTS Neo:X extracts information that is common to the fronts and sides in order to feed their wide speakers (like extracting a centre output between those two channels). Trinnov is conceptually closer to what Neo:X is doing but without the logic steering, more like what higher order Ambisonics used to do.

We'll have to wait and see if the mass-consumer version of DTS-UHD supports remapping the 'bed' to include a Front Left|Right wide (FLw|FRw) speaker pair -- with subsequent object rendering across the complete five front speaker panoply (FLw - FL - FC - FR - FRw) -- as a part of DTS goal (link) to deliver "Customized rendering designed for arbitrary speaker layouts enables consumers to adapt their AV system to their own home environment rather than pre-determined speaker layouts"...?!

Remixing The Phantom Menace Pod Race scenes to include perhaps as few as two dynamic objects associated with the (current) two loudest on-screen pod-racers could deliver a spectacular improvement to the playback acoustics in a 5.1 + 2x Front Wide speaker configuration!
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post #28 of 204 Old 06-05-2014, 02:33 PM
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In setting up front wide left and right speakers, I found the front wides to be most compelling with live concerts. I preferred a more narrow soundstage with films. I temporarily set up wides for a few weeks while I had the MC. That said, having wides in the set up is far better than without them.
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post #29 of 204 Old 06-07-2014, 10:03 PM
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In setting up front wide left and right speakers, I found the front wides to be most compelling with live concerts. I preferred a more narrow soundstage with films. I temporarily set up wides for a few weeks while I had the MC. That said, having wides in the set up is far better than without them.

While this is true that wides seem to make the most impact, having speakers all the way around actually feels more seamless overall when done right.

The more speakers in your theater, the better the sense of envelopment becomes. When it is totally seamless you get the sense that all the surround speakers "dissapear" and become truly non-localizable. The suspension if disbelief improves substantially with a critical mass of speakers for a given size room.

5.1 is simply an afterthought for me at this point. It simply sounds terrible in comparison.

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post #30 of 204 Old 06-10-2014, 06:46 AM
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Remixing The Phantom Menace Pod Race scenes to include perhaps as few as two dynamic objects associated with the (current) two loudest on-screen pod-racers could deliver a spectacular improvement to the playback acoustics in a 5.1 + 2x Front Wide speaker configuration!
_

This is the future of the cinema experience. i appreciate your input on the storm thread and discovering this thread is giving me a lot more to read on the matter.  Loving the BSG reference in your sig, BTW.

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