Are large L/R/C speakers passé with the advent of Atmos, Trinnov and Dirac? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Are large L/R/C speakers passé with the advent of Atmos, Trinnov and Dirac?

So as one contemplates their future home theater, I cannot help wonder if the large L/R/C setup isn't dead. I look at Atmos and other installations and they seems to favor multiple smaller speakers, with large subs. So for the front, you want multiple levels for elevation and expanse. So call it 9 smaller speakers on the front couple on top, sides and back. Just seems like smaller, possibly self powered speakers are the way to go. While it might favor HT at first, the advent of Trinnov and others suggest a similar setup might be preferable for audio only as well. Is this the correct way of looking at things? s

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post #2 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 10:16 AM
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Wink There is always Legacy Mode...

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Originally Posted by yetis View Post
So as one contemplates their future home theater, I cannot help wonder if the large L/R/C setup isn't dead. I look at Atmos and other installations and they seems to favor multiple smaller speakers, with large subs. So for the front, you want multiple levels for elevation and expanse. So call it 9 smaller speakers on the front couple on top, sides and back. Just seems like smaller, possibly self powered speakers are the way to go. While it might favor HT at first, the advent of Trinnov and others suggest a similar setup might be preferable for audio only as well. Is this the correct way of looking at things? s

Thanks
There is the matter of Legacy 7.1 being enjoyed in Legacy mode.

But if it were for Roger Quested he would not use the lt-20s in rooms our size, the jury is still out as I will not hear the LCR lt-10s until Jeff's is or when LCR horns will be ripped out of Skoll and replaced with LT-10s plus 4 more additional behind screen. When my hearing supports that notion in compared to 5 lt-20s in Moscow then it's all lt-10 down the line and a much needed saving for some of my other clients. I stop using 20's.

For the side rear surrounds we will be using equally powerful atmos high spl +30 db headroom surrounds, as per roger he is agreeing with your statements that surrounds may need to be the same size as all other speakers. For ceiling high power he is exploring a mini amt and to drive biamped for 125 db clean transients.

Im am making the car go faster not to kill the patrons but just to have the headroom under the hood. Capiche?

So yes powered is good if you don't get electrocuted during the wiring.


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post #3 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 02:42 PM
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Atmos has zero bearing on whether to use large or small front speakers in a home theatre. The consumer version only maps to 3 front speakers.

Even in commercial cinemas, the only thing Atmos adds behind the screen is the option to use another pair of full-range speakers, placed between full-range L/C/R speakers.

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post #4 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Atmos has zero bearing on whether to use large or small front speakers in a home theatre. The consumer version only maps to 3 front speakers.

Even in commercial cinemas, the only thing Atmos adds behind the screen is the option to use another pair of full-range speakers, placed between full-range L/C/R speakers.


Sanjay, please explain; I don't understand the above highlighted part. Consumer version of Atmos adds two front height speakers to the 3 speakers of LCR, making 5 speakers total in the front, no?

Which speakers are the "3 front speakers" in your quote, that Atmos maps to? Are you saying the 5 speakers I mentioned above *could* be mapped into the 3 speakers of LCR if the extra height speakers are not available? Thanks.

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post #5 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
Consumer version of Atmos adds two front height speakers to the 3 speakers of LCR, making 5 speakers total in the front, no?
The initial version of Atmos doesn't use Height speakers on the front wall, just one or two pairs of Top speakers above you.
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Which speakers are the "3 front speakers" in your quote, that Atmos maps to?
L/C/R, same as in a movie theatre.

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post #6 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 05:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Atmos has zero bearing on whether to use large or small front speakers in a home theatre. The consumer version only maps to 3 front speakers.

Even in commercial cinemas, the only thing Atmos adds behind the screen is the option to use another pair of full-range speakers, placed between full-range L/C/R speakers.
Do we really think that the people on this forum are going to stick with the consumer version? I think I have seen mention of future versions already with more speakers. So assuming one moves to something more then the basic consumer version.

Looking at Dolbys commercial installations spec, I think I know the answer.
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post #7 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 05:40 PM
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Do we really think that the people on this forum are going to stick with the consumer version?
Yes, since that will eventually allow for up to 24 main speakers and 10 overhead speakers. Rare person, even on this forum, that will need to go beyond that. Besides, the commercial version doesn't go beyond 5 front channels.

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post #8 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess I don't understand. First you say it will only map to three speakers in front then you say there will eventually be 24 mains. Are you saying there will be 21 speakers , not in front?

It would seem with 21 speakers, you will need many smaller units and the traditional large fronts will not be relevant.
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post #9 of 17 Old 06-27-2014, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetis View Post
First you say it will only map to three speakers in front then you say there will eventually be 24 mains. Are you saying there will be 21 speakers , not in front?
First gen consumer Atmos products (ALL the receivers and pre-pros coming out this year) use only 3 screen speakers: left, centre, right. The other speakers are at your sides or behind you or above you. There will eventually be products supporting up to 24 speaker locations around you (including L/C/R) and up to 10 speaker locations above you.
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It would seem with 21 speakers, you will need many smaller units and the traditional large fronts will not be relevant.
You won't "need" smaller units. If you have the money and space, you can place 24 full range floorstanding tower speakers around you. There is nothing about Atmos that has to do with speaker size.
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post #10 of 17 Old 06-28-2014, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you

I actually had not seen the consumer white paper, only the commercial. So it looks like in the consumer version they say three is ok on the front, with two additional units depend on space and desire. The commercial variant goes straight to the five, which is what I referenced initially. They say in the consumer white paper that five makes for better sound transition across the screen so one still wonders if on a consumer theater where five large fronts wouldn't fit, if five smaller units isn't more ideal.

Very exciting times. I still believe you will see a development of a new speaker class, to facilitate this development.
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-30-2014, 09:55 AM
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So Home Atmos will support 34 channels. My concerns were placated this morning with this announcement.

Sorry I missed your post but I see you weighing away from the cinema array behind the screen, I will not do that, I will preserve the in between center channels that are so convenient on wall to wall screens and help take the whole frontal whallop a few decibels cleaner.

Like in my 3d rendering floating around here on some posts.


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post #12 of 17 Old 07-04-2014, 03:52 PM
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IIRC, the spec for the front speakers is three - L, C and R unless the screen is greater than 40ft and then you add the additional two - LC and RC. The white papers with images for placement have been posted here a few times, or can easily be found via Google.
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-04-2014, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot View Post
IIRC, the spec for the front speakers is three - L, C and R unless the screen is greater than 40ft and then you add the additional two - LC and RC. The white papers with images for placement have been posted here a few times, or can easily be found via Google.

Thanks, but that is not how I read this on page 16.

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/A...for-Cinema.pdf

"we recommend installation of these additional speakers, particularly in an auditorium over 40' wide."
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-05-2014, 03:26 AM
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Thanks for the link - that's a slight change since last year then. The doc you quote is dated 2014, the one I remember was dated 2013 :

http://jimmy.thomas.free.fr/DOC/cine...Guidelines.pdf

"For an auditorium with a screen wider than 12m (approximately 40ft), the addition of two screen speakers can be beneficial in creating smoother pans across the screen"

Either way they both suggest that it's only really beneficial on larger screens, though I'd have to actually hear the two to see if there is a benefit on the kind of screen sizes we typically see in homes.

I heard what was for me a benefit with wides which filled in the large gap between side surrounds and the fronts, though I'm not so sure we'd hear the additional LC and RC so much on smaller domestic set ups since the speakers will be considerably closer together.

Having said that, I'd always be inclined to try and replicate the commercial requirements unless they just don't work in smaller rooms. After hearing an 11.2 set up, I'm definitely in the 'more is better' camp for surround speakers, and can't wait for the likes of Auro to become the norm for domestic use. Immersion is the name of the game after all

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post #15 of 17 Old 07-05-2014, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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That is the point of this thread. I think everyone will eventually get there, that replicating the commercial installation will work best. In the simplest of terms, if we are truly going for object specific sound, having the most points to project the movement of this sound will be best. So eventually I think you see the rise of the small Atmos surround and fronts.
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post #16 of 17 Old 07-08-2014, 11:56 PM
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great, since that will eventually allow for up to 24 main speakers and 10 overhead speakers. Rare person, even on this forum, that will need to go beyond that. Besides, [IMG]http://*******/rfX8Ga[/IMG]the commercial version doesn't go beyond 5 front channels.
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post #17 of 17 Old 07-09-2014, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larcronetwo View Post
Besides, [IMG]http://*******/rfX8Ga[/IMG]the commercial version doesn't go beyond 5 front channels.
5 front speakers but only 3 front channels (L,C,R) for the commercial version of Atmos.

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