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CEDIA 2014 news (a la $20K forum)

11K views 145 replies 27 participants last post by  CINERAMAX 
#1 ·
Starts tomorrow. Winners. Losers. What's on the horizon. 4K. HDMI 2.0 upgrades for various pieces..

Particularly the Atmos rooms, Trinnov Altitude demo, Speaker designs for Atmos. Blu Ray titles coming in Auro / Atmos.

ATMOS updates to various SSPs (Datasat said early 2015, but perhaps more specific).

New ADA SSP. CBIV updates (of course).

Should be a good one!
 
#15 ·
The Christie projector demo was ridiculous. I've never seen a 55,000 lumen projector in a space that small, or screen that sized at 60fps native content and 4k. It was way beyond "residential" offerings IMO. I think he said they had about 100 residential installs to date, but that's mostly hollywood A list types.

Anyways, bottom line was it looked amazing.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Should be good stuff.
 
#8 ·
That was a joke (as the only word I've heard is that there is no way to get Atmos / Auro or 16 channels of output into the CB).

Announcement of the CB V?
 
#9 ·
Anyone in the Trinnov room?
 
#10 ·
Trinnov / Procella room was to me best Atmos demo of the show. The Procella system sounded the best I have heard it in three consecutive years at CEDIA. The bass was a little off, at least from where I was sat, but they did only have two subs in there. Could have used a few more for more even seat to seat bass. I think the reason it sounded better was that the side walls were not overly damped with thin absorbers like they have been in past years. Credit that to Quest NOT providing the acoustical treatment design and product this year. At least that's my opinion; one that will probably get me in trouble!

Best demo of the show (so far - still have to check out the JBL Synthesis and Lyngdorf rooms) was the Auro room. This was a Datasat RS20i / amp driven room using James loudspeakers. Fair enough they did not play as much movie content as I would have liked. I was somewhat surprised at least from this exposure that I preferred Auro over Atmos. But show floors are not the places to make categorical assertions. Auro gave a pretty amazing sense of spaciousness and 'naturalness' that was missing from the Atmos clips. This may have been a factor of the Datasat electronics (which also sounded awesome with the Wisdom system on the show floor) and James speakers, but must have also had something to do with the very large high ceiling-ed room (same room as the Wisdom demo was in last year) and at the very least the AURO processing. I was surprised also that the speakers at ear level (the lower bed) did not cause issues. It seemed that most surround content is somewhat shared between the bed and height layer, which provides a sense of extra spacioiusness...yet discrete panned sounds maintained very decent tracking. The Atmos demos by comparison there was more of a jump with pans between surrounds and ceiling speakers.

Christie room was very poor. Poor presentation, with no details on what products were available for the consumer market, and the staff outside did not know any more. Sound was poor, video not much better.

The official Dolby Atmos theater sounded very nice, they were using Triad speakers but it was not the kind of high end HT we have here. They had a flat panel, with a center speaker below screen and tower speakers into the room. They were showing the difference between Atmos enabled and Atmos ceiling speakers. I actually quite liked the Atmos enabled speakers, the pans were less 'jumpy' than with the ceiling speakers and the sound a little more spacious.
 
#11 ·
I agree with you on most of your points. I however preferred the ceiling Atmos speakers more on MOST clips. I think there was some level matching that needed to be done with the ceiling speakers in some of the rooms. But I will say...I did find the up-firing speakers much more effective than I previously thought they'd be. In some rooms...that may be a great choice.

And how about that Trinnov piece. I will be watching that one very seriously. I was and am very impressed.
 
#18 ·
@Nyal Mellor

Did you get a chance to attend the JBL Atmos demo? I am curious as to impressions of the M2 LCR and the SQ of those SCS8's they had for surrounds?

This is the very system I am installing and I'm very curious as to your impressions. I've heard the M2 with music and they're exceptional, but I've not heard them with cinema content in a larger space.

Thanks
 
#22 ·
These M2 sounded a bit restrained, very competent sound but i would wait to shoot it out with the front runner at the moment.The new coaxial jbl speakers don't poke your eardrums either but there is one new coaxial ceiling speaker coming from quested.

The audio chain was all digital to the amps from the atmos processor, through the eq and thru the power dacs. That same kit is worth exploring with the questeds. So the Jbl System was so good due to A) channel count 39, B)extra 10 db of lossless cinema sound C) all digital electronic chain. They will sell the amps without synthesis, the dolby cp850 is available to someone with a cinema projector.

Bring on the shootout between the m2 and the lt-10 center aligned.:cool:
 
#20 ·
The JBL demo was very good, but they were not demoing a system most people could buy or use simply due to lack of access to DCI content. It was basically a small commercial cinema system, not a residentially focused product. Having said that if you buy into the Synthesis "closed system" approach (no mix and match) then I would not hesitate to recommend their consumer systems using the M2 as LCR. This is a very special speaker.
 
#25 ·
I hated all the laser projector demos I saw especially the DPI Highlight on the Stewart booth. So sparkly it was near enough unwatchable for me.

The alignment of the Sony units was certainly impressive but absolute cartoonsville presentation of colour and shading (ie bright and none). The world cup section revealed this pretty ruthlessly although image was otherwise decent.

In general it was a pretty dire me-too fest overall with almost nothing super new or exciting to see. 25 pretty similar ATMOS demo booths means my general impression of most starts to run together. I think the others have been kind above. The ATMOS speaker option did almost nothing for me other then shift the image generally towards the rear of the room.

It was a shame that the procella units were used with the Altitude as the demo simply sounded like procella speakers for better or worse. I was lucky enough to spend some time with Curt and the gang though and have lost none of my admiration for what they are doing. On a technical level I doubt anyone could fail to be excited by the options it offers. ATMOS with real height speakers is certainly the better solution for my money but one of the things I have been worrying about is the wide H AND V dispersion requirements unless you are lucky enough to have a really tall room. Do we need to be thinking domes for the heights again?

Loved the Barco 2.35 unit with the 0.27:1 lens. Have been waiting for a year for that unit to get ready. Great to see Barco there and my privilege to say a few words at their launch event and props to Jim Burns and co for their hospitality on Friday night :D
 
#26 ·
It was a shame that the procella units were used with the Altitude as the demo simply sounded like procella speakers for better or worse.
That's interesting I had the same reaction. I knew nothing about Procella, but really did not like the sound of the speakers or the room. The bass in particular was way off, sounded awful. When I got home and looked up Procella, I was amazed to see what had been said about them....

But even so, I tried to separate myself from the voicing of the speakers and tried to evaluate the sound distribution and pinpoint accuracy of the sound "objects" in the 3D audio demos rendered on the Altitude, compared to what I had heard with all the other Dolby Atmos demos. I was impressed. And the unit itself is beautiful. I also had a good chat with Curt, and delivered my deposit check....

Best 3D audio demo of the show however was the audio-only samples in the Aura 3D demo room.... Those 3D soundscapes were amazing. The movie clips... not so much, they did nothing for me.
 
#27 ·
I was definetly expecting a lot more from the procella demo than I actually got. It's performance wasn't anywhere near it's price tag. For the cost of that system and the hype surrounding it I was disappointed. The bass was almost "bad" as it was too weak and anemic. A $1000 DIY solution would embarrass it actually. It did sound small.
 
#35 · (Edited)
Nec cinema based. there were 2 units one died.Lon, Best In Show? best display since TV was invented. Bestest thing in the known universe, this thing is so good...You catch my drift.:) It drops the bottom from under the entire projection industry. If they can build them reliably.

Subsequent insider info tells me Blu Laser can achieve r2020 if modulated down, as well as phosphors etc. so it's not out yet. Then also Dolby has something big looming on horizon.
 
#41 ·
I was quite impressed as well. We were the first dealer to put in a PO for the laser variant back at Infocomm, but the LED has me now vacillating between them. The only limitation is the low lumen output for good 3D which matters at that price point. It's a dilemma I haven't decided on just yet.

If the laser could really be modulated down to achieve similar results, that would make it the best of both worlds. Still a big IF until someone tries it I guess. I'm eagerly anticipating the results of that one. But given the 12k lumen starting point, it definitely has room to be dialed down. If we stick with the laser, we will be the first shipment scheduled and have it to play with... see what we can achieve.
 
#37 ·
So, NEC did keep pursuing LED projectors, there was the 2000 lumens unit at infocom three? years ago, and Cinemaandy told us that he had seen an NEC xxK lumens LED projector a number of years ago. 3K is not much, but enough for many users. Especially if the LEDs retain their output like the first two generations of high-end HD single chip DLP projectors did.
 
#39 ·
Art, callibration to what? This supposedly is a BT2020 capable display, please don't keep throwing this and associated light away, like calibrators are used to. If so use remapping. The cedia trhead here mentions 3K lumens, so that's allI know. You guys go there not me;-). I didn't even go in to town to see the 6P Christie four long days of IBC is enough for me. And the Saturday showing always conflicts with the tradeshow.
 
#43 ·
Not meant to put you on the spot, sorry .
Just too many times I see quotes for lumens then realize that once the device is set up accurately you see 1/3 of this light can't be generated. I get 33fl on the internal patterns on my projector @2.35:1 and 14' width but 25fL set up to display Blu Ray accurately.


I appreciate your posts so ignore me .:eek:


Art
 
#46 ·
Peter, did Barco invade upon your IP, Barco Prometheus, ahum, lol.

Did Barco commission that video of its CEDIA/Tower pressence? Overhere I have not seen any exhibitors seen doing that for IFA/IBC, they seem to think people will make video's and publishing them anyway. With no money in journalism, I have long suggested going direct, instead of via advertising. Not the managed interview/ad spread combo package, some trades offer, but a way that creates room for journalism. Not sure how exactly, but I am sure there must be a way. For video folks this might be a side-line, at least. The 15 minutes slots of interview and camera, with online video after the show, for big bucks, that some offered at mobile world congress seems to find less takers each year, the rates did go down, so not sure it will work.
 
#45 · (Edited)
Art your posts aren't to be ignored. I have been suggesting remapping for a few years now. Why throw away so much native colurspace and associated brightness.

I have been bothered by this narrowing the colour space melarkie, of calibrators, it is the less elegant approach, but understandable given the lack of control over the content with most off-the-shelf products.

It was one of the main selling points of the only exception I know of, the EE TruVango version of Chi Lin Industries 3LED/single DMD projector platform. The seperate box remapped 709 (Re-)mastered content to take advantage of the projectors' native colourspace and therefor its full brightness.

Remapping to larger colourspace is the way to go. With wide colourspace becoming more readily available, the same is true for content that is wider gamut than the display.

In flatpanel the lightloss is less obvious, but Canon's broadcast LCD monitor received a firmware update, launched at IBC last week and this allows it to remap BT.2020 colourspace from a Canon camera (for instance) to its smaller native gamut, showing the richer deeper colours compared to regular conversion of the content to rec. 709 colourspace. Retaining the full colour in the video material, so not destroying its shelf-life by downconversion for post-production.

Years ago a Philips researcher told me and others that what to do with the mis-match between the company's LCD TVs colour and the Rec. 709 standard, was up to management. Either limit/change the monitors to 709, or to remap 709 colours to the monitors larger native colourspace. They had algorithmes either way. They no longer make TVs so are less restricted to/invested in smaller native colourspaces LOL, and therefor just presented a scheme to encode all visible colours, at IBC. A displaymaker could decide how to remap to suit the characteristics of his display.
 
#47 ·
i was going in2 weeks to see the final laser pr. "not any prototype that was showed before" from Barco at themanufacturing side.


main goal forme was to see live in action how the best despeckle on the market looks.


as i can’t livewith any visible speckle it will be a important visit for me.


i hope i cant see it as laser have some advantages i like to have.
 
#54 ·
i was going in2 weeks to see the final laser pr. "not any prototype that was showed before" from Barco at themanufacturing side.


main goal forme was to see live in action how the best despeckle on the market looks.


as i can’t livewith any visible speckle it will be a important visit for me.


i hope i cant see it as laser have some advantages i like to have.

Wolfgang, are you refereing to 3P or the 6P? Given you are currently using two 4K Barco's for 3D I would expect your primary interest to be in a 6P unit, but I am not sure if that is production ready yet. Will you also be evaluating the Christie 6P?

That NEC/DPI LED in Peter's post looks quite nice aswell, though not bright enough for your application, might as well stick with the 'little Sony'.
 
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