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JBL Synthesis CEDIA 2014 GOLD AWARD Removed under new disclosures....

1K views 26 replies 8 participants last post by  CINERAMAX 
#1 ·
The Gold Medal Goes to Datasat and James in the AURO HALL.

JBL was unsportsmanlike cheating all the way when they showed up to a 12 Atmos stem competition with a 128 stem system. YOU RE OUT!!!!!

Here is the smoking gun:

https://youtu.be/3f5gf6MyfoM?t=2759

GOLD MEDAL STRIPPED FROM JBL CEDIA 2014 for Cheating
 
#2 ·
So, they made their own demo clip with 128 objects??
 
#3 ·
So the only way to attempt to retrieve most of the (up to 128 stem) original resolution out of an Atmos bluray is to use a speaker that has the best phantom imaging not only centerline but way to the sides as well.

Voila: my recent discovery:


These digitalspeakers essentially will recreate a 32 speaker (every five feet) layout with slightly over half, due to "out of this world spooky solid" phantom imaging.

 
#6 ·
Indeed, they weren't trying to hide it at all. In fact, they mentioned that it was Atmos DCinema in the demonstration. Maybe some spectators were assuming all Atmos is created equal? I'm not sure what all the late hoopla is about. It was a truly fantastic sounding demonstration.
Full disclosure: I work for JBL.
 
#8 · (Edited)
"Maybe some spectators were assuming all Atmos is created equal?" You are accusing me of such ignorance, Im approaching my fourth year immersive audio research tour de force (a million spent in research in 2012-13) I saw the very first of atmos demos at Dolby and listened to 3 dozen other atmos systems. I don't claim to have the all the answers, but for sure have more answers than most, including the dolby cinema aspects and latest speaker technologies...

I was one to unequivocally give the JBL the Gold as it recreated the precise head orbiting I heard at Dolby Gravity premiere, but with fantastic fidelity.

No Sour Grapes with JBL It was clear they were using an all digital system including the cp-850 with which I have been intimately familiar, the disappointment is with the fact that Dolby Home Whitepaper (which had many loose ends) I admit, stated VERY CLEAR that there would be a base 24 speakers with 10 objects. That makes it 34.


DONT BELIEVE ME ? Read and weep.

UNDERSTAND THE CRIME committed?

We were lead to believe by Dolby Home Team (Craig Eggers and Brett Crocket) that the home system with a TRINNOV could be 32 discrete objects of resolveability. Then Brian Vessa drops a 128 megaton 12-object plugin bottleneck bomb.

It was my understanding that the JBL Synthesis was rendering about 64 objects into a 39 channel system. That is not that far from a 32 channel system that the Trinnov does (under the assumption of even the recently updated Dolby Atmos Home Setup Guidelines). And yes I also have the Guinness record for the only 32 channel home Atmos system currently deployed. As far as admiration for JBL I respect the system architecture and believe Quantum Logic has a chance to beat Auro, to be seen.


I am sorry JBL you need the title removed in light of the format developers apparent shenanigans that have just this week reared their head.

39 is to 34 15% more objects. 39 is to 12 325% more objects. YOU ARE OUT. I challenge you to play with the cards less stacked next cedia. There is a good possibility that another demo if it comes through will whip your hind. :kiss:
 

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#13 ·
"Maybe some spectators were assuming all Atmos is created equal?" You are accusing me of such ignorance, Im approaching my fourth year immersive audio research tour de force (a million spent in research in 2012-13) I saw the very first of atmos demos at Dolby and listened to 3 dozen other atmos systems. I don't claim to have the all the answers, but for sure have more answers than most, including the dolby cinema aspects and latest speaker technologies...

I was one to unequivocally give the JBL the Gold as it recreated the precise head orbiting I heard at Dolby Gravity premiere, but with fantastic fidelity.

No Sour Grapes with JBL It was clear they were using an all digital system including the cp-850 with which I have been intimately familiar, the disappointment is with the fact that Dolby Home Whitepaper (which had many loose ends) I admit, stated VERY CLEAR that there would be a base 24 speakers with 10 objects. That makes it 34.


DONT BELIEVE ME ? Read and weep.

UNDERSTAND THE CRIME committed?

We were lead to believe by Dolby Home Team (Craig Eggers and Brett Crocket) that the home system with a TRINNOV could be 32 discrete objects of resolveability. Then Brian Vessa drops a 128 megaton 12-object plugin bottleneck bomb.

It was my understanding that the JBL Synthesis was rendering about 64 objects into a 39 channel system. That is not that far from a 32 channel system that the Trinnov does (under the assumption of even the recently updated Dolby Atmos Home Setup Guidelines). And yes I also have the Guinness record for the only 32 channel home Atmos system currently deployed. As far as admiration for JBL I respect the system architecture and believe Quantum Logic has a chance to beat Auro, to be seen.


I am sorry JBL you need the title removed in light of the format developers apparent shenanigans that have just this week reared their head.

39 is to 34 15% more objects. 39 is to 12 325% more objects. YOU ARE OUT. I challenge you to play with the cards less stacked next cedia. There is a good possibility that another demo if it comes through will whip your hind. :kiss:
I certainly am not accusing you of such ignorance. I am instead trying to understand why you are just now so so infuriated with the 128 megaton bomb that is 12 objects. I can certainly understand your frustration with Dolby, but i don't understand what that has to do with JBL, especially considering JBL was upfront about the specs of their system (that it was DCinema, not Atmos Home)
No Sour Grapes with JBL It was clear they were using an all digital system including the cp-850 with which I have been intimately familiar, the disappointment is with the fact that Dolby Home Whitepaper (which had many loose ends) I admit, stated VERY CLEAR that there would be a base 24 speakers with 10 objects. That makes it 34.


DONT BELIEVE ME ? Read and weep.
I just want to make sure you understand that objects and channels are not the same thing. You said that the Dolby Home paper states clearly that you have 24 base speakers and 10 objects. That is not correct. It says you have 24 base speakers and 10 overhead speakers. And as we all know from the HTG video, the playback through said 34 channel system is limited to 12 discrete objects. You can still take advantage of your 34 channels of awesomeness with only 12 objects, because (thanks to object-based audio mixing), channels and objects are no longer the same thing.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Best sound claiming 15% more objects is fairplay.

Totally irrelevant demo when you claim you have 15% more objects but in fact have 325% more. That is class action territory for deception even if involuntary.

On the other hand Wilfred Van Baeelens Auro /James/Datsat demo was a very very close second with 0% juicing. Don't let me start accusing anyone of Lance Armstrongship. :D :D

The numbers do not lie.

Now if Craig Eggers or Brett Crockett are willing to come forth with some information on future object channel expansion for the home Atmos plugin then, I will reconsider giving JBL back the crown.:D
 
#19 · (Edited)
Im just interpreting what the guy said. Not what we previously understood to be true which is what you are correcting me. He interchangedly uses the 12 count of speaker to the 12 count object it's him explaining it in laymens term, how is that rendered on a a 32 channel system when the similarly vectored objects are suchly summed up? How is that extracted according to your logic I know objects can travel theoretically through 32 speakers? But where is the 7.1 base in there?

I say we need next generation phantom imaging to help physically render all that summing objects-sausage grinding up that these guys are downmixing or bundling up.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Hi Peter,

A state-of-the-art JBL Synthesis Home Theater Surround Sound System is incomplete without UHD software (4K Blu-ray discs) and UHD hardware
(4K Blu-ray players and 4K front projectorsand/ or 4K OLED flat panel displays - largest sizes). :)

A recent article from Widescreen Review was posted and transferred here: https://www.avsforum.com/POSTs
=> The link is just a click away.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Thanks.

Well, the video might aswell go DCi, since you need the DCP for the audio;-).
Not when we can/could have better than DCI. eg. 100/120/(possibly 150) fps, 7680x4320 resolution at 120, etc. Though it would help to allow it within the UHD (and UHD BD) spec too (eg. include exactly 4K too).

Also the Harmonic article on page 6 in the diagram shows 7680x4320 Super Hi-Vision as having "32,961,660" pixels. I don't think it does. Surely it has 33,177,600 pixels. Either one is higher than the DCI standards.
 
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