Barco Residential Loki 4K DLP Laser Phosphor Projector - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Barco Residential Loki 4K DLP Laser Phosphor Projector

At the ISE Europe 2016 show in Amsterdam, Barco Residential has unveiled its latest projector, the Loki. The new model is aimed at the high-end AV custom install market. It will be compatible with HDR content thanks to support for HDMI 2.0a with HDCP 2.2. Barco is known for bright projectors, and the Loki is no exception. It will offer up to 8500 lumens of output in its default configuration. An option to swap the color wheel will boost the light output to 12,000 lumens.



The Loki uses a 0.9-inch DMD DLP chip, and offers a 3840 x 2160 on-screen resolution. Currently, specs are hard to come by since the projector was unveiled just a couple of days ago. Fortunately, Barco will hold a PR event in NYC on April 5, where I’ll see the Loki in action and have an opportunity to ask questions.

Check out this article from CE Pro Europe, it has the most information I could find on the topic. Indeed, it was what Barco pointed me to when I asked for more info on the Loki.

The combination of 4K DLP and a laser phosphor light source is sure to pique the interest of well-heeled videophiles. Furthermore, the Loki features liquid cooling and can be mounted in any orientation. Stay tuned, soon I will have a lot more information to share about this exciting new projector from Barco.
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post #2 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 07:45 AM
 
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This may put the sony on notice if it looks good, but not coming out for awhile.
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post #3 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 08:11 AM
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It may put the Sony on notice for some that have high tolerance for rainbow effect.... Having seen the demo at ISE this year, this projector has clearly some potential in light output and colour palette/saturation but unfortunately for me (being highly sensitive to it...) was plagued by very strong rainbow... I don't know if this is strongly visible due to how the 4K DLP ship is working or if it purely due to the massive light output... Anyway surely a nice competitor in the high end 4K projectors.
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With the advent of lasers, is this when the high quality DLPs, because they're old technology, fall in price?!

Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #5 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 08:40 AM
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Holy crap that's butt-ugly. It looks like an antique from grandma's attic.
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post #6 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 08:54 AM
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What it delivers on the screen is what counts. It could look like my face and I wouldn't care as long as the performance is there.


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post #7 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 10:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ht4everBE View Post
It may put the Sony on notice for some that have high tolerance for rainbow effect.... Having seen the demo at ISE this year, this projector has clearly some potential in light output and colour palette/saturation but unfortunately for me (being highly sensitive to it...) was plagued by very strong rainbow... I don't know if this is strongly visible due to how the 4K DLP ship is working or if it purely due to the massive light output... Anyway surely a nice competitor in the high end 4K projectors.
They are work in progress but the secret for laser hdr is dynamic light modulation, if they get it right...
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post #8 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 12:11 PM
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This is the year when competition in the 4K projector space may get interesting. The new smaller "reasonably" priced TI chip allows the use of smaller consumer priced optics. I expect most of the manufacturers with experience with DLP to bring out something. I've been quite happy with my single chip DLP 1080 Planar. Looking forward to 4K. longer lasting light sources and HDR sweeten the pot.
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post #9 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 12:49 PM
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Peter, et.al., 8500 with more or less only rec. 709 as only modification will be the media room version. Then there will be an HT version at a maxiumum of 6500 lumens. This will offer slightly improved contrast as even I noticed the very lacking on-off and black floor of this F90 they had just received and only tuned to rec. 709. Both the F-90 and the Loki on show were both still prototypes/engineering samples.

Not noticable in the bright room with the F90 that was only showing bright colored car advertising slides. Even the Standard F-90 does very nice REDS.

You found the spec. page, with what 400:1 contrast, rember you posted that in one of the threads.

When pixelpeeping at the F-90 there was the fine flickering line ínterference'pattern I also saw at the TI prototype and the Optoma HLD 4K prototype.

I was told earlier that day that the F90 would do full Rec. 709 at the full 13K lumens, but then Residential told me that Rec. 709 was only possible with between 8000 and 9000 lumens max.

The non pixel shifting version (WQXGA 2560x1600) will be available first, that is the F-90 version. But Tim Sinnaeve Barco Residential's MD told me he is considering a swap programme setting people up with the WQXA version (with Mediaroom/HT modifications) replacing these with the 4K version when available. Hmm, 4K was what September and WXQXGA without shifting would be what June, from memory.

Didn't discuss pricing for the Loki's, but MSRP for the F-90, yes it is a true Projection Design Design on steroids, is €38K plus VAT.

I thought I already posted all this info here: ISE: Barco F90 4K projector.
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post #10 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
They are work in progress but the secret for laser hdr is dynamic light modulation, if they get it right...
And here I expect little or nothing this year. Given that they need most of the year to bring 4K to market. There is little or no interest for this right now from the Commercial Event & Rental division that came up with the F-90. They offer high frame rate 120 fps, and brightness, longer life/clo at lower price/smaller form factor compared to 3 DMD. At Rec. 709 color the F-90 people claimed. We see Christie using the 2000.000:1 on-off contrast in competing single DMD units as an shutter control alternative, as it only works on full black fields. That's what we see in R&S.

Optoma will be first with HLD/XPR, and that is third Quarter/September. BenQ 4K HLD will be later, but still this year I was told, and given their failed demo, they seem even further from production ready as Optoma. The non-pixel-switching 1920x1200 higher education 3500 lumens HLD will be available in June.
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post #11 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 02:28 PM
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Wonder how much it cost in US dollars,how long will it be till 4k projectors will be 3-4 thousand $
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post #12 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 02:47 PM
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The Optoma will be pitted against the Epson, JVC and entry level Sony.
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Donald. Much of what you have written is simply wrong eg brightness of standard unit is 8500 lumen at greater than P3. Media room will do 709 at 12500 lumen.

The Loki is a dedicated residential platform with significant development over the F90.

I'll try and get some real details up for you tomorrow.
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post #14 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 03:06 PM
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Is it true 4K or e-shift cr@p ?
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post #15 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 03:10 PM
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No 3D = not worth the cash.
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post #16 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 03:38 PM
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I thought it looked like a Projection Design case.

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post #17 of 102 Old 03-12-2016, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post
Donald. Much of what you have written is simply wrong eg brightness of standard unit is 8500 lumen at greater than P3. Media room will do 709 at 12500 lumen.

The Loki is a dedicated residential platform with significant development over the F90.

I'll try and get some real details up for you tomorrow.

Neil, this is what Tim told me after he asked his developer, present at the demo. I also heared the developer say this as I was sitting next to Tim, when he asked to make sure following my questions. Since I was told the F-90 would also 'do Rec. 709 guaranteed' at full brightness, I wanted to make sure what the difference(s) was. Then I was told the statement as posted above.

The loki will (undoubtedly) have significant development over the F-90, but I was told the demo unit had relatively little yet, as they had only just received the platform and were just starting further development. It will need to have further development over the F-90 to begin with in the contrast department as the F-90 is specified at only: "Contrast ratio 400:1 native, 1800:1 Full field".

@mmiles I was told the development teams have been integrated but it was indeed developed in Norway. The case and lens definitely are classic PD design, only larger.

@latreche34 Yes it does use a standard 0.9" WQXGA, 2560x1600 DMD with a two position pixelshift for around 8.15 million pixels. Shifting comparable to TI's XPR Technology, but developed and owned by Barco, unlike XPR, that is fully developed, owned and promoted by TI.

Edit: I just read the white paper on Single Step Processing (SSP™) image processing technique from Barco,and it claims 16 million pixels, but the 0.5 pixel diaganol shift would suggets there is a quarter pixel overlap, at a minimum.

Re: ISE: Barco F90 4K projector

TI 4K pixel shifting technology as explained by Barco

TI told me the pixel shifting would in principle work with all of its DMDs, but it was only focussing its efforts on the 0.67" Consumer 4K DMD.

Panasonic does have its Quad Pixel Drive Technology that by design does overlap pixels, using four positions in its shifting mechanism. This also uses the 0.9" WQXGA DMDs, only three of them.

So the linked CE article is not correct as to this being 'the first 9in 4K DLP laser phosphor projector in the world', as Panasonic has been shipping its PT-RQ13K since November 2015, after first showing/launching it at ISE 2015.

@thebland Well the Laser-Phosphor units are currently sold at a premium. They can offer 3 DMD light levels (12/13K lumens for the brightest from Christie/Barco, Christie also at 13K if using the new ISO scale), so there is a (slight) discount compared to some of the older 3 chip designs.
@film113 the base platform is 120 fps capable, so no reason it should not do active 3D at 60fps. The mentioned Thor is a completely different beats, a fully fledged 6P laser projector, so capable of 6P 3D, so seperation through frequency off-set in the second set of RGB primaries.
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post #18 of 102 Old 03-13-2016, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
film113[/URL][/B] the base platform is 120 fps capable, so no reason it should not do active 3D at 60fps. The mentioned Thor is a completely different beats, a fully fledged 6P laser projector, so capable of 6P 3D, so seperation through frequency off-set in the second set of RGB primaries.
Capable yes...but is it included? That's the unknown.
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post #19 of 102 Old 03-13-2016, 10:45 AM
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The base input is there 4K @ 120 fps, that is one of the key features garnering interest from beyond the traditional R&S market from simulation and so on, according to the Barco manager responsible for the F-90. Why would Tim and his people remove this from the platform when building a residential projector...

I rechecked the official announcement for the F-90 and the 4K version is scheduled for Q4, the non-shifting WQXGA version is said to be shipping Q3/September. Assuming a similar time-frame for development for the Loki, it is clear why not everything is made final yet.

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No 3D = not worth the cash.
People still base their TV/projector purchases based on 3D? hunh. Weird.
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Originally Posted by kopkiwi View Post
People still base their TV/projector purchases based on 3D? hunh. Weird.
Consdiering most of us are not Cyclops and with the performance push 6p and OLED has given to 3D what is not to liek, specially considering tentpole movies (which 8 out of 10 are 3D) so nothing weird anout expecting HQ 3D in our projectors.

Now uhd bd opens the viewing room design field up for taller screens and MINI-PLF topographies, 3D there is lovely Cake icing on the maximum vertical field of vision required for 4K.
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Wonder how much it cost in US dollars,how long will it be till 4k projectors will be 3-4 thousand $
This is the price point I'm waiting for. I assume we're still several years away from this price point combined with enough material for me to justify an upgrade.
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post #23 of 102 Old 03-14-2016, 09:31 AM
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The Entry Level JVC is 4500€ ($?) MSRP. Of course it is a 2x2K/MP =4MP shifting solution.
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Strumzilla View Post
This is the price point I'm waiting for. I assume we're still several years away from this price point combined with enough material for me to justify an upgrade.
Thxs,your probably correct on price and upgrading, my 3 yr/o Epson pro 6020 has great pq so I should be happy with what I got but upgrading is always on my mind,I'm sure I'm not the only one here that wants to upgrade that's why we are members of AVS!
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post
Wonder how much it cost in US dollars,how long will it be till 4k projectors will be 3-4 thousand $
This is the price point I'm waiting for. I assume we're still several years away from this price point combined with enough material for me to justify an upgrade.
Several years away? Geez, flat panels will probably be at 8k standard by then!
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People still base their TV/projector purchases based on 3D? hunh. Weird.
uhh, yeah.. I love 3D, and I won't buy a new projector which doesn't support 3D.. I now own the simple Optoma HD131X (as I was waiting for laser/led projectors but then my H79 broke down, so I needed a new one fast), and I love it's 3D (except ofcourse it could use some more brightness, but even it's succesor has been improved in that regard).
I don't mind having to sit with glasses on, I already wear glasss during the day..


Because you don't like 3D doesn't mean a lot of other also don't.. Biggest problem with 3D is lack of content, or the much more expensive 3D bluray's compared to their 2D counterpart..
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I'm a big 3D fan myself. No 3D then no sale for me too.
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Hi Everyone,

For those that don't know me, I am the Neil Davidson mentioned in the CE Pro Europe article in the first post of this thread. My business, like several here I guess, is in the supply of high end home cinema products and services and one of my most important brands is Barco High End Residential. I certainly don't speak officially for Barco but can supply accurate information and do my best to answer any questions that come up.

First off you can download the preliminary cutsheet here.

The Loki is a very important and exciting new product for Barco and the response since ISE has been fantastic. The immediate competitor is the Sony 5000 and Barco are putting in everything to make the Loki the best choice in this category. Subjective feedback has been very positive so far but there will be more feedback I am sure once product demos start in earnest next month.

There are a few points that I would like to just pick up to tidy up some of the information contained in the above posts...

Back in 2013 Barco acquired Projection Design and that group is now known as Barco Fredrikstad. That acquisition brought together the leading 3 chip DLP and the leading 1 chip DLP manufacturers under one brand and since then they have been working to bring together their huge amount of expertise and technology. The Loki is the first truly unified product release benefiting from the expertise of both divisions.

I personally think that it looks good in the flesh - only so much that you can do with the industrial design of a projector!


And I don't think that the 3D fans need to worry...

Neil Davidson - DT Screens
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post #29 of 102 Old 03-14-2016, 03:02 PM
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As has also been mentioned, the Loki is not due to ship until Q4 this year. To ensure that no one buying a Loki is without a projctor Barco will be supplying an Optix projector on loan until the Loki ships. I don't think there has been a better deal to let people pre-order with confidence.

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post #30 of 102 Old 03-14-2016, 03:24 PM
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And the all-important question - price tag?
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