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Testreport Series V. Sony VW 5000 4K Laser Projector

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#1 · (Edited)
Test Sony Laser Pr. VW5000

I have the pleasure to receive last week the first real series version of the new Sony Laser 4K Pr. the VW 5000.

Feed it with BD makes not any problem but I had a hard time with this pr. as for days I cannot display a HDR Image from the Samsung UHD Player.
Looks like the Samsung not put out a HDR signal it therefore also not output a bigger color signal (DCI Color in a Rec 2020 container).

The solution was a small box in between the Samsung UHD Player and the 5000 and here we go I saw first time HDR+DCI Color.

But first some other things.
As I have my VW 1100 direct in between the seats I watch movies with the pr. direct near my head (6”away only!)
I was skeptical as the VW 5000 demo unit I saw last year had a noise level that made this impossible.

But put the VW 5000 further back I lost some light when I put for scope movies my Isco Anamorphic Lens 1.24 on and the VW 5000 will be not in the ideal position to the screen. So I was positive surprised that my real unit btw with Serial number “1” is not as noisy as the demo unit.

We watch some UHD movies already with it and I had not much problems with the noise level the VW 5000 have even when pr. was direct only 6” away from my ear but I will do a hush box anyway.
So If someone will have the pr. in a normally distance from his ear (1-2 meters away) I think he can live with the sound level without a hush box but this is very depending
on the room the distance and the personal feeling about it.
I was not aware if there is any 5000 lumen Home Cinema pr. out that is so quiet as the VW 5000 was.

You must also know that if you not need to full light output you can dim the laser very much down and the noise level go down.
Same when dark content comes after some seconds the VW 5000 going down with some fans inside and when a bright picture comes up after some seconds it going up with fan noise.

With UHD in HDR with wider colors on I select Color Space 2 (wider than Rec 709 but a bit smaller than DCI) that gives the most lumen and DCI color temperature and I get about 4500 lumen with about 15.000:1 cr.
With BD playback at Rec. 709 you can get about 3850 Lumen and 13500:1 cr. and color looks very perfect rightout the box.

Please note that I will be publish later all the settings I use for BD and UHD Disc in details as this can made huge differences!
On top of this electronically adjustments the VW5000 have a filter that you can movie mechanically inside but this kills a lot of light and you can
depends on the setting get less than 3000 lumens.

There is a Laser dimingfunction inside and there you have 3 settings.Full-Limit-Off.
Full means when the pictureis is totally black for some 1 or 2 sec. it switch the laser almost complete of.
When some material comes up Laser jump on.
If you are sensitive to this you should use the Limit version.
Here it not switch the laser complete of it just reduce the brightness a bit.
Then it also dim the Picture down when the picture show a dark image but a little less aggressive as they do it in Full.
Time will tell me if I usefull or limit in future.
As the cr. the VW5000 offers is very good you can runn it in of as well.


It is very likely as other report at AVS that many UHD Disc had a black bug means that in sequences that are very dark
it looks like there was not any parts with 0 IRE visible with results in a bit washed out black.
As the VW 5000 can Show perfect blacks with BDs I think this is a bug from the Samsung UHD Plyer or how the UHD Disc was mastered.
I read that some here at AVS complain about it already.

A manual iris was not there and this was sad. I have hope Sony put this inside to further increase the native cr. for this people that not have a big
Screen like my screen and can trade of lumen for native cr.

Convergence was good but expect the first time some miss convergence as most of the time transportation
cause some issues that most of the time disappear after some hours.
I recommend to wait some hours and some days before you use the convergence adjustments.
After some days and some running hours now it’s very stable and good.

Shading was very good on my unit.

The lens was very crisp and sharp over the whole picture.

So how the pr. looks beside this numbers is more important than anything else?

To make it short it looks fantastic!
I never in my live saw a picture like this.
It had not any visible speckle it show very nice color and if someone say HDR not looks good with a projector
as only fix panel Displays can do or show HDR good he is very wrong.
No question displays have some advantages and can display a much brighter image but a 65” or even a 85”is only a big TV.

The combination from a bright pr. like the VW 5000 with a good native cr. HDR and DCI color can bring you to a level of picture quality that are likely better than any picture you saw before and this include also Cinemas.

The more you watch it the more it will be difficult to watch again normally BDs as you get soon used to this quality.
HDR in combination with the DCI color looks first very different may some will say it looks dark but it’s just very new and a new way of watching movies.
During I compare for sample Maze Runner 1 the UHD Version in HDR +DCI Color with the VW 5000 displayed with the BD displayed by the VW1100
you fell first when yous witch between them that the VW 1100 have the same lumen as the VW 5000 as visible rated
the VW5000 show about the same brightnes but this is not true as the VW5000 have about 2.5 times the lumen.
I hope that Alan will post some pictures so you can see what I mean..

Let me tell you last what both daughters I have (14 and 10 years old ) are saying when we watch the first complete movie in UHD HDR and DCI color
Maze Runner 1.
My small one sad after 1 or 2min. to me:
“WOW Papa the color and cr.looks very good much better than what we have in the past”
My wife and my older daughter was also say WOW after some min.
And yes I agree as well this is a new world and it’s not so much about more resolution that is visible it’s
-HDR -DCI Color + the possible more Resolution AND the Sony VW 5000 that makes the difference!

I really strongly recommend that everybody that can afford this expensive pr. to test it at a good dealer that
know how to set up the many parameters correctly and decide after.
I will be not surprise if many that can afford it will buy it.

Please note:
This Tread is about the first Test from a Sony VW5000 4K Laser Projector and not about discussion’s DLP vsSXRD so please keep this Thread on topic.
 
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#6 ·
The Samsung does limit the output if it doesn't receive the correct EDID/Display metadata. No HDR display means no p3 10 bits. So Samsung good for demo's as the only game in town, but better wait for Panasonic is what I hear following an UHD BD, HDR Projection event that was held in Belgium this past Saturday. Wolfgang you 'met' Werner in the Sammy test thread after I asked him to share his experiences with you the other week. Find a Sammy UHD BD compatible Remote Control with numeric inputs and you should be able to access the secret menu's with testpatetrns on the Sony UHD BDs.
 
#8 ·
donaldk
I am very sure with the box in between it outputs a HDR Signal and the bigger DCI Color.

I yesterday preorder the Panasonic UHD Player an in 2-4 weeks it should be here.

Tomorrow a professional Color calibrator will visit me and as he have a lot of different HDR material with him i think we can find out what cause the bug beside other things we will do.

So Sony did it again like they did it with the first BDs like Casino Royal that they put at there first UHD Disc Testpattern on ...did the really do this???
If so it will be nice to hear the code or Instruction how to make the Pictures visible.
Are they are at HDR inside?
I have a Samsung 4K TV and possible this remote it will be working as well so just Need to know how as i have 2 Sony UHD The Amazing Spider Man 2 and Chappie with me.

I try here first time to publish 2 Pictures at AVS that Show a White clipping.
With Maze Runner 1 you can go up with Contrast to 91 before it start to Clip as you can see in this Pictures that hopefully will work.
With Maze Runner 2 you can go only up to 86 Contrast before it starts to Clip so why it is so different?
 

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#9 · (Edited)
Just asked Werner, for you, as he discovered this, was complaining Sony did not tell him or other calibrators about this as they are doing their best to help promote a new standard in 4K UHD-BD and HDR.

The Fury should work as I asked them about the Fury supporting older players without hdmi 2.0a with HDR displays, and HD fury picked-up on this and added the infoframe selection and insertion feature, to trigger HDR displays. Good to hear that it works in practise, as designed.
 
#63 ·
Ifyou have any chance to test a 3D disc, I would love to hear your thoughts.
I not forget it but it takes some time to do it.

It is not a full test but I try to feed 3D BD Signal for the first time to the pr.
I not test a lot just adjust max. lumen and D65 and Rec 709 and take a look.

First I was very surprised how relatively bright it looks.
Believe it or not I watch with the Isco Anamorphic 1.25 lens that outputs together with the full Panel the pr.can
use an about 40% brighter Picture (compare to aspect normaly and no Anamorhic 1.25 Lens) and I watch it at almost 7meter in 3d.

After I remove the Anamorphic lens and select a 5 meter wide Picture and I think that’s the most the VW5000 can do in ideal lens Position (without the Anamorphic Lens) that give you the most lumen in 3D out.
I found in the menu
-3D Brightness High and Standard.
At Standard you have perfect ghosting and Picture Looks very nice.
With High you gain about good 40% brightness but the ghosting gets a bit less good and I can see in some seq. banding.
But it is a nice Feature that Sony put inside so you can decide yourself what you like more.

I think the VW5000 can do easy depends on how you drive the optic and the other adjustments with a 1.0 Gain Screen
till to 5 Meter wide 3D in High mode.
With 4 Meter you are safe in Standard mode.

Only the 2x 48Hz shutter speed are not so nice as it can Show flicker at smaller Screens.
At the 5 Meter how I run the pr. today it was almost invisible also in bright sequences.

All in all I was positive surprised that the VW5000 made a good and bright 3D Picture.

And this brightness level will be there for a long long time without any drop because of the laser.


 
#12 · (Edited)
Thank you Wolfgang to your share your impressions with us!
I think it's a very good sign that your family reply the change with a WOW.
Do you try the little box in combination Samsung with your VW 1100 also ?
There are a lot of people outside (incl. me), how are looking forward to get the picture with colours bigger than rec 709 on the screen by using the build in DCI Sony Filter in April with the UHD Panasonic or Samsung Player

Best Regards dirk
 
#14 ·
Thank you Wolfgang to your share your impressions with us!
I think it's a very good sign that your family reply the chance with a WOW.

Do you try the little box in combination Samsung with your VW 1100 also ?
There are a lot of people outside (incl. me), how are looking forward to get the picture with colours bigger than rec 709 on the screen by using the build in DCI Sony Filter in April with the UHD Panasonic or Samsung Player

Best Regards dirk
What's happening in April?
 
#15 · (Edited)
April panasonic release the UHD Player and i can Test this with my VW 1100...but i have no little box so far, that is why i ask Wolfgang.
I hope Wolfgang get Samsung Player before his 5000 and give him try with his VW 1100 in the meantime.
The Differenz is with the Pana you can switch off the HDR Signal
 
#19 ·
Thank you all for your nice words!

It is a lot of work but I am happy to hear that many like it.
Especially when I hear that there will be not any DLP vs LCOS discussion "at this Tread" :).

I have finish my hush box today.
As the unit have a very nice and easy air flow"direction intake at the front Output at the back" it was relatively easy to build a hush box.
It reminds me to the old days when I had first a single stack Sony G 90 CRT Pr. and later a double Stack.
The Sony G90 was much too noisy so I build a hush box.

The noise Level the 5000 have with the hush box is now on pair with the VW1100 so very nice.

As I hear that some will get there unit soon my next post I will tell all the Settings I use to run the 5000 with BDs and UHD BD and some more information’s.
 

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#20 ·
Hi Wolfgang,

We will be working with Walter FM doing comissioning of my new moon of Saturn in Istambul for forum meber Murat who ordered this projector.

You know how lenses have better mtf and less distortion in the middle sweet spot range. So for a 4 meter wide screen (fixed width constant image top with bottom up mask on main 1.77 ar), we want to put hushbox in back of room too, in that case the lens is still in the sweetspot? Ja? the room is 8 meter long.


Or you find the lens to have a nice consistent quality across the zoomrange? That is my question.
 
#21 ·
Hi Peter

The ideal Position from any lens and Projector is always in the Center of the Screen.

But it is all depending how much room for shift the lens get when they design the lens and zoom factor is also a big part of it.

As the shift range the Sony 5000 have is very big vertically+- 80% and horizontally +- 31% I guess that if you use 50% of this lensshift it is still in the sweet spot.
But this is also depending about what zoom Ratio you use.

Rate Quality from zoom Position I not can say much but I almost use all the time a very lage Picture so close to max. Picture size.
There the Picture was always very good.
As the VW1100 have the same lens inside and I see at least 5 Units over the last years I like this lens a lot.

Anyway that’s the reason why I have in my Setup the Projector at this specially place as i like to have all the benefits.

But as i say the lens from the 5000 is so very good that even if you use the shift it still perform very good.

Sorry Wuffzack it will take more time to see the unit in 3D.
 
#26 ·
I definately agree with Wolfgang, the new VW5000 is really stunning. Great machine!

We will publish some measuring results coming week. For everyone who understands german, we also made a first Video-Review where we projected on a 6m Screen.





Also, we will get our hands on two(!) final series machines very soon. As Wolfgang writes, these seem to be even better :D

Have fun,
Ekki
 
#28 ·
With BD playback at Rec. 709 you can get about 3850 Lumen and 13500:1 cr. and color looks very perfect rightout the box.

Please note that I will be publish later all the settings I use for BD and UHD Disc in details as this can made huge differences!
On top of this electronically adjustments the VW5000 have a filter that you can movie mechanically inside but this kills a lot of light and you can
depends on the setting get less than 3000 lumens
About 25% lightloss is no that bad for the DCI filter and around 3000 lumens is still ok for many Screen sizes.


Does your final series machine match the DCI Color space with the filter engaged? (the pre-production did not).


Regards,
Ekki
 
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