The Official 5000ES 4K Laser Sony Owner's Thread - Page 44 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1291 of 1398 Old 09-13-2017, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mani View Post
Need some input :
- when playing 4k movies from Strato , sometimes I get the option of choosing BT2020 color space on Sony's menu and sometimes I don't . I am using reference mode on Sony . Are there some UHD movies on Kaleidescape that are not in BT2020 ( or do only HDR movies use BT2020 color space )

- also where can I find some more details about what the Sony terminology in the menu actually means ( or what exactly it does to the picture ). Manual has very basic explanation
E.g. Reality creation and various options under it , motion flow options , contrast enhancer , difference between NR and MPEG NR etc .
- what options does everyone use for above ?
- do we keep x.v. Color on or off ?

Thanks
Here are some of the settings I use:

Reality Creation/Resolution: 40
Reality Creation/Noise Filtering: 10
Motion Flow: Smooth Low

Very occasionally I'll use the Contrast Enhancer on Low (like for "Arrival" which I thought looked pretty milky), but only once in a blue moon. Additionally there are some films that have enormous amounts of digital grain (mosquito noise), like the Criterion "The Third Man" where I'll apply NR & MPEG NR. When I do that, I'll up the Sharpness level a little to compensate for what the Noise Reduction does to the apparent sharpness. I _only_ do this for films that have unwatchable amounts of digital noise. This kind of artifact completely ruins a film for me, taking me right out of the movie, so I'll put up with the negative aspects of NR reduction to make a film watchable. If applied subtly and carefully, it can look pretty good.

My 5000 is calibrated for a 2.4 Gamma, but I'll change Gamma settings for each movie, based on the transfer. I find I use Gamma 7 a lot.

All of this is personal preference. The settings that I use don't look as scary as they sound because I don't push the pj with enormous amounts of light. With a 19' screen, I can't anyway. I don't generally like the blindingly bright images that many people like, and since I have an essentially black room, I don't need to push the white level that high to get a nice looking image with rich, deep blacks.

-Rob

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post #1292 of 1398 Old 09-13-2017, 08:16 PM
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Thanks Rob
I agree with you on the kind of image I am looking for . I have 16' wide AT screen . From growing up watching movies in the theatres , the experience that's engrained in your memories is that of reflective display ( which is not as bright and soothing light ) and not of extremely bright LED emissive displays . That's the subconscious built in memory that separates the experience of watching movie on a TV in your home vs going out and watching a movie in a theater . That's why I am not sold on the idea of video walls . I am sure they have great specs on paper . But what our subconscious memories are of the theater experience are different . But to each his own...
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post #1293 of 1398 Old 09-13-2017, 11:23 PM
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Think I will be joining this "club"! What the heck, it's only $$, and as I hardly ever drink (like some of you, Ha!) I can use all that money I've saved! Get the big picture?

My 2:35 (or whatever) screen will be 15' wide (I am having a heart attack as I am taking The Bland's advice)! I plan to use my pre-existing Isco III lens,


As I have 12' foot high ceiling my five Aerial 7t speakers and 2.JL Audio f212 subwoofers on 15" high ASC substands will fit below the screen so I will not require an acoustically transparent screen and plan to get a Stewart Snowmatte - I will forgo the more expensive masking screen this time!


Exciting!

Blame Mani for his hospitality and demo! Convinced to break the bank!
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post #1294 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Think I will be joining this "club"! What the heck, it's only $$, and as I hardly ever drink (like some of you, Ha!) I can use all that money I've saved! Get the big picture?

My 2:35 (or whatever) screen will be 15' wide (I am having a heart attack as I am taking The Bland's advice)! I plan to use my pre-existing Isco III lens,


As I have 12' foot high ceiling my five Aerial 7t speakers and 2.JL Audio f212 subwoofers on 15" high ASC substands will fit below the screen so I will not require an acoustically transparent screen and plan to get a Stewart Snowmatte - I will forgo the more expensive masking screen this time!


Exciting!

Blame Mani for his hospitality and demo! Convinced to break the bank!

I don't believe you will be sorry. I don't believe that you will find that the ISCO III will be needed however. Do an A/B before final installation., I did.


Art

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post #1295 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
Think I will be joining this


As I have 12' foot high ceiling my five Aerial 7t speakers and 2.JL Audio f212 subwoofers on 15" high ASC substands will fit below the screen so I will not require an acoustically transparent screen and plan to get a Stewart Snowmatte - I will forgo the more expensive masking screen this time!
Steve,
I agree with Art no need for ISCO - why put a glass in front of another glass ....
Also - Hope you are getting the screen with masking?
Ash
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post #1296 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Hahn View Post
Ash, You should check out the Blu-ray of Oblivion. Weirdly, it's actually sharper than the UHD transfer (though unfortunately it doesn't have the Atmos track). Still, it's a better looking picture. On my 19' screen, the UHD is clearly softer than the Blu-ray. Something went really wrong with the 4K transfer. (Maybe it's been redone)?

You're so right about the Snomatte 1.0 Stewart screen! It's awesome!

-Rob

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Rob,
I am finally in video heaven ..... thanks to all you guys.
And thanks to Ken who insisted on the Snomatte - I have seen the light ....
I will check out Oblivion on Blu Ray - I have watched it many many times so it will be fun to compare - with bigger screen and Snomatte.
My projector is not calibrated yet so I am missing shadow detail I noticed - especially in night scenes - for example Ghost In the Shell.
I am getting 35 FTL on 16:9 so Ghost in the Shell is a treat to watch in HDR (I know you don't care about too bright a picture - but I love a bright picture).
There is a setting in the 5000 - pure white - I have set it to medium as it helps pop the white colors.
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post #1297 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash Sharma View Post
Steve,
I agree with Art no need for ISCO - why put a glass in front of another glass ....
Also - Hope you are getting the screen with masking?
Ash
I appreciate the advise.

However, due to my Aerial speakers and two JL Audio subs on stands under the screen, and I am not changing my audio (too much work to get where I am - phenomenal!), I am going with a cinemascope screen. I already have the lens from 2008 install. My understanding is that by using the anamorphic ISCO III lens that I will get the full light output of the projector both for 16:9 and 2:35/2:40, that otherwise by using the projector to do the zoom I will be losing light output on 2:35/2:40. Am I wrong and do I misunderstand this?

Not another masking screen for me. Too much money. I am stretching as it is.

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post #1298 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 08:00 AM
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Currently have Stewart Luxus Delux Ultramatte 150 fabric 144" 2.35 aspect screen with the projector about 19.5" away from the screen.

Since I upgraded to the VW5000, the bright scenes are overpowering.

I see people recommending Snomatt 100 or StudioTek 100 with the 5000.

Is there a reason to get one vs the other?

Sony VW5000 | Stewart 156" Ultramat 150
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post #1299 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 08:13 AM
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I have watched my Sony both with and without my ISCO 1.25x lens over last 2 weeks and have always preferred it with the lens when watching scope movies .
Esp for me as I use AT screen ( AT screens have gain of 0.8 or so no matter what is advertised ) and screen is 16' wide and I watch from the first row which is 13-15' depending on how much you recline , I can use every bit of lumens and resolution as possible .
Steve , for example if you have 100" wide scope screen which will be approx 100x 41 ) then 16x9 native panel of the projector will project an image of 75x41 . Now if you watch 2.40 movie the image projected will be 75x31". So vertically 27% of the pixels are wasted . And then you zoom those pixels to fit 100x41 screen, so each pixel becomes that much bigger horizontally and vertically. With vertical stretch and A lens , you will get to light up all the vertical pixels so giving more light and no zooming or magnifying the pixels vertically. It may not matter in some theaters , but how close I sit and with low gain and big screen in my case , I with no doubt prefer A lens . As you saw the other day , with a quality A lens there is no degradation in quality

Just my 2 c
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post #1300 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
I have watched my Sony both with and without my ISCO 1.25x lens over last 2 weeks and have always preferred it with the lens when watching scope movies .
Esp for me as I use AT screen ( AT screens have gain of 0.8 or so no matter what is advertised ) and screen is 16' wide and I watch from the first row which is 13-15' depending on how much you recline , I can use every bit of lumens and resolution as possible .
Steve , for example if you have 100" wide scope screen which will be approx 100x 41 ) then 16x9 native panel of the projector will project an image of 75x41 . Now if you watch 2.40 movie the image projected will be 75x31". So vertically 27% of the pixels are wasted . And then you zoom those pixels to fit 100x41 screen, so each pixel becomes that much bigger horizontally and vertically. With vertical stretch and A lens , you will get to light up all the vertical pixels so giving more light and no zooming or magnifying the pixels vertically. It may not matter in some theaters , but how close I sit and with low gain and big screen in my case , I with no doubt prefer A lens . As you saw the other day , with a quality A lens there is no degradation in quality

Just my 2 c
My experience as well, both at your place the other night and with my own anamorphic setup!

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post #1301 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
My experience as well, both at your place the other night and with my own anamorphic setup!



I have to disagree for one reason, the ISCO III is not any were near an ISCO 1.25. I put up the III against the bare projected image thinking at least I'd get more light without zooming. The test results showed a significantly softer image through the ISCO III and no real world difference in light (less than 1 fL). Mine's in a box; although with my 1080p DLP it was far and away an improvement due to the pixel gap visibility and increase in coarseness from zooming rather than the ISCO III. I think if I had a 1.25 I might be singing a different tune but I don't.


I would ,as I stated before, put it up and test both before install. Nothing to lose.





Please not the size of the 1.25 !


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post #1302 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 04:31 PM
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Hi Art
It doesn't look that big once installed ?...
See attached , with lens on and off ( this is 1.25x) .I have ISCOIIIL as well that I was using with Sim2 . I haven't done AB comparison so I can't comment on the difference between the two . The light loss in big ISCO lenses from the data I have seen is < 2%. But you have 25-30% of the SXRD panel lit with vertical stretch , so there is no logical way one won't have much more lumen gain . But if one already has the lens and slide , no reason to not get it mounted and you have best of both worlds . You can move it away with a touch of a button if you don't want it .
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post #1303 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
Hi Art
It doesn't look that big once installed ?...
See attached , with lens on and off ( this is 1.25x) .I have ISCOIIIL as well that I was using with Sim2 . I haven't done AB comparison so I can't comment on the difference between the two . The light loss in big ISCO lenses from the data I have seen is < 2%. But you have 25-30% of the SXRD panel lit with vertical stretch , so there is no logical way one won't have much more lumen gain . But if one already has the lens and slide , no reason to not get it mounted and you have best of both worlds . You can move it away with a touch of a button if you don't want it .
In my research, I've been told by one of the gurus of anamorphic lenses that the Sony in zooming for 2:35 opens up a bit with some additional light output, though that will only make up with a part of the light loss by zooming to 2:35 with the Sony.

I've settled on ordering a 14' wide Stewart Snowmatte 1.0 gain screen!

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post #1304 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 07:12 PM
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Hi Steve
I run laser output between 90-100%, so I doubt Sony can open up anymore in my circumstance unless it makes some compromise in color temp or CMS to increase light output . If one is running laser output much lower , I agree it may have some headroom
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post #1305 of 1398 Old 09-14-2017, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mani View Post
Hi Art
It doesn't look that big once installed ?...
See attached , with lens on and off ( this is 1.25x) .I have ISCOIIIL as well that I was using with Sim2 . I haven't done AB comparison so I can't comment on the difference between the two . The light loss in big ISCO lenses from the data I have seen is < 2%. But you have 25-30% of the SXRD panel lit with vertical stretch , so there is no logical way one won't have much more lumen gain . But if one already has the lens and slide , no reason to not get it mounted and you have best of both worlds . You can move it away with a touch of a button if you don't want it .

Thanks for your input. Just from experiences with Wolfgang Mayer in Germany and his Barco Thor using the ISCO 1.25 vs the III adding my own A/B with the III and the 5000.


Art

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post #1306 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 12:03 AM
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Recently, my 5000 has developed a strange problem which I've never had. Couple weeks ago I put a 4K movie in my Oppo 203 player and started the system as usual. I don't remember which movie it was but after it started to play, the PQ was really bad. I said to myself "Wow, some of these 4K transfers are really bad" Then after a few minutes in I was like "Hey this movie is worse than its BluRay version. It's like a DVD" there was no detail, no punch and huge lack of contrast. I stopped the movie, started again, same thing Then somehow I went to into the 5000 menu and noticed there was no HDR contrast slider in the Picture section. Then I went to the last one (I think its called system?) and the resolution was 480p Checked the disc, it is a 4K for sure. Then I turned off the 5000 and restarted it again. Voila, problem solved, it shows the correct resolution. This happened to me a few more times and lastly, when I was watching Alien Covenant last night. This doesn't happen every time I watch a 4K movie and when I see this I just turn off and On the pj and everything is OK.


Now, the question is I haven't changed anything in the system, didn't update any firmware, didn't play anything with the hardware. I have no clue why this problem started all of a sudden. Anyone else having similar issues?


Thank You
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post #1307 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
In my research, I've been told by one of the gurus of anamorphic lenses that the Sony in zooming for 2:35 opens up a bit with some additional light output, though that will only make up with a part of the light loss by zooming to 2:35 with the Sony.

I've settled on ordering a 14' wide Stewart Snowmatte 1.0 gain screen!
You've been spending too much time talking to Burnstein... he's on an upgrade tear!!!
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Goodbye to a great audio and video genius and writer... JOHN GANNON. I enjoyed your friendship, wit and a nice long run we took around Indianapolis at CEDIA years back... and for buying my Runco 980 Ultra years back... you saved my ass! Rest in peace.
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post #1308 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murat View Post
Recently, my 5000 has developed a strange problem which I've never had. Couple weeks ago I put a 4K movie in my Oppo 203 player and started the system as usual. I don't remember which movie it was but after it started to play, the PQ was really bad. I said to myself "Wow, some of these 4K transfers are really bad" Then after a few minutes in I was like "Hey this movie is worse than its BluRay version. It's like a DVD" there was no detail, no punch and huge lack of contrast. I stopped the movie, started again, same thing Then somehow I went to into the 5000 menu and noticed there was no HDR contrast slider in the Picture section. Then I went to the last one (I think its called system?) and the resolution was 480p Checked the disc, it is a 4K for sure. Then I turned off the 5000 and restarted it again. Voila, problem solved, it shows the correct resolution. This happened to me a few more times and lastly, when I was watching Alien Covenant last night. This doesn't happen every time I watch a 4K movie and when I see this I just turn off and On the pj and everything is OK.


Now, the question is I haven't changed anything in the system, didn't update any firmware, didn't play anything with the hardware. I have no clue why this problem started all of a sudden. Anyone else having similar issues?


Thank You
Hi Murat:

Could be one of several things:


First thing I would do is check what resolution the oppo is outputting when this issue occurs, if you have a Lumagen check the input and output info screen. My guess is Sony 5000ES is receiving 480P from source or Lumagen
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post #1309 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 04:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post
Hi Murat:

Could be one of several things:


First thing I would do is check what resolution the oppo is outputting when this issue occurs, if you have a Lumagen check the input and output info screen. My guess is Sony 5000ES is receiving 480P from source or Lumagen

I don't have Lumagen or anything else in between 5000 and Oppo. I didn't check the output resolution on Oppo when this thing happened. AFAIK, Oppo output res. is set to Auto. I will check those if this happens again.
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post #1310 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murat View Post
I don't have Lumagen or anything else in between 5000 and Oppo. I didn't check the output resolution on Oppo when this thing happened. AFAIK, Oppo output res. is set to Auto. I will check those if this happens again.
OK, check the output of the Oppo next time this happens, I can almost guarantee the oppo is outputting 480P when this happens...
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The Auto setting on the Oppo can glitch to an improper resolutiuion and is likely the culprit. I have mine on Auto with Source Direct and have experienced no issues. Others have had an improper res sent to the projector. It has been recommended by may not to use Auto, but since I use that player for blu-ray as well, I leave it on. It's a nice feature that the Panny 4K player is missing.
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post #1312 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 07:28 AM
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You've been spending too much time talking to Burnstein... he's on an upgrade tear!!!
I'm sticking with my 10 year old 12 foot 2.40:1 screen Jeff! Does the job, no room for wider and a 12 foot 16:9 screen maybe too tall to look at comfortably in my loungers, bottom of screen too close to the floor

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post #1313 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 08:53 AM
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If anyone feels they can get a better image with the ISCO III using the 5000, and they don't already own it, I have one for sale.


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post #1314 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 08:59 AM
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You've been spending too much time talking to Burnstein... he's on an upgrade tear!!!
Actually Burnstein spends too much time talkin' to me. For years I've been telling him he can easily afford the best new projector and for how long does he want to beat up in this department by The Bland!

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post #1315 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murat View Post
Recently, my 5000 has developed a strange problem which I've never had. Couple weeks ago I put a 4K movie in my Oppo 203 player and started the system as usual. I don't remember which movie it was but after it started to play, the PQ was really bad. I said to myself "Wow, some of these 4K transfers are really bad" Then after a few minutes in I was like "Hey this movie is worse than its BluRay version. It's like a DVD" there was no detail, no punch and huge lack of contrast. I stopped the movie, started again, same thing Then somehow I went to into the 5000 menu and noticed there was no HDR contrast slider in the Picture section. Then I went to the last one (I think its called system?) and the resolution was 480p Checked the disc, it is a 4K for sure. Then I turned off the 5000 and restarted it again. Voila, problem solved, it shows the correct resolution. This happened to me a few more times and lastly, when I was watching Alien Covenant last night. This doesn't happen every time I watch a 4K movie and when I see this I just turn off and On the pj and everything is OK.


Now, the question is I haven't changed anything in the system, didn't update any firmware, didn't play anything with the hardware. I have no clue why this problem started all of a sudden. Anyone else having similar issues?


Thank You
Darn computers! Over this years this sort of things has happened at times with various versions of my Theta Casablanca surround processor and even other computer based components. Report the issue to Sony and hopefully they'll figure out a firmware upgrade to improve this. And hopefully when I get mine I won't have the issue but if I do I will be sure to REBOOT!

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #1316 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 09:02 AM
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Black/White

I'm trying using the LumagenPro test Patterns to get black and White right.

Using the black pattern (contrast 2) , with -4 and +4% I turn down brigthness down until -4 disappears and still see +4.
(it should be barely, but I don't consider that barely).
From the ramp in that pattern I see +1 just a bit and so on.
I think that is right?

But then I'll try White (contrast 1) where -4% is never supposed to visible when done properly (accorrding to the Chromapure guide on curtpalme.com) but no matter what the contrast is set to, I Always see -4 but never +4

I've attached 100 and 50 contrast.

what am I missing?
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg WIN_20170915_17_38_17_Pro.jpg (74.9 KB, 19 views)
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post #1317 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mburnstein View Post
I'm sticking with my 10 year old 12 foot 2.40:1 screen Jeff! Does the job, no room for wider and a 12 foot 16:9 screen maybe too tall to look at comfortably in my loungers, bottom of screen too close to the floor
What? Given the light output of the Sim2 Duo, you should get a 12 foot wide Cinemascope 2:35 screen 1.3 gain I bet, using a specially designed duo Cineslide with two ISCO lens!!!@@@
Am I joking? Seriously!!!! Come on, sell the Bugatti, do this!
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You mean you don't remember me? Back 1999 - 2003, I started and moderated the AVS Tweaks forum and also the AVS Special Guests forum.

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post #1318 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 09:51 AM
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Lumagen 4444 due to be delivered to Alan today! 18Ghz inputs and outputs
I think the Lumagen can stretch the 16:9 OAR material to fill full width of CIH 2.40:1 screen for sports without much distortion. The 16:9 12 foot screen really would be too tall for lounger seating! No lens needed 😜

mark
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post #1319 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murat View Post
Recently, my 5000 has developed a strange problem which I've never had. Couple weeks ago I put a 4K movie in my Oppo 203 player and started the system as usual. I don't remember which movie it was but after it started to play, the PQ was really bad. I said to myself "Wow, some of these 4K transfers are really bad" Then after a few minutes in I was like "Hey this movie is worse than its BluRay version. It's like a DVD" there was no detail, no punch and huge lack of contrast. I stopped the movie, started again, same thing Then somehow I went to into the 5000 menu and noticed there was no HDR contrast slider in the Picture section. Then I went to the last one (I think its called system?) and the resolution was 480p Checked the disc, it is a 4K for sure. Then I turned off the 5000 and restarted it again. Voila, problem solved, it shows the correct resolution. This happened to me a few more times and lastly, when I was watching Alien Covenant last night. This doesn't happen every time I watch a 4K movie and when I see this I just turn off and On the pj and everything is OK.


Now, the question is I haven't changed anything in the system, didn't update any firmware, didn't play anything with the hardware. I have no clue why this problem started all of a sudden. Anyone else having similar issues?


Thank You
The EDID exchange at the beginning sets the resolution between the two components. AS the issue appears to be random, I would be looking at the HDMI cable before thinking the issue is component related.

John
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post #1320 of 1398 Old 09-15-2017, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netroamer View Post
The EDID exchange at the beginning sets the resolution between the two components. AS the issue appears to be random, I would be looking at the HDMI cable before thinking the issue is component related.




You maybe right. Cycling the pj corrects the problem. But I didn't do anything with the cable. Maybe its USB power source is not working %100 anymore
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