Originally Posted by CINERAMAX
Isn't that Octave going right out of the L shaped sliding doors? I thought it was...
And Mark you can ask Brad I told him I fully supported the decision to go with your subs, specially of you come down to tune it. At that time I may let you fiddle with the other alternative.
Thank you Peter, and please realize that I believe most saw my post as made in jest and a fun jab. I awaited your response in defense of your latest focus or favorites. Surely with your flair for the sensational a little fun is in order lest we take ourselves to seriously.
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX
There are many things this system has going for it namely the controlled 90 degree dispersion, which allows for a 125 ms-175 livelier room acoustics..
But also let's not get bogged down with that specific octave. I want to know, Are there any current ATMOS tracks exploiting the sub-20 region? War Of The Worlds does not count nor shoot em up my favorite using the rotary sub.
And being that if I want to go down to DC am the type to use a rotary sub, we shouldn't just look at numbers. Much Like 4k on an LCOS looks like a vaseline job for those used to 2k DCI, or even 4k. But you can have a better 2k image just depends on the design. The higher the MTF and colorimetry the better.
So I know quite well what it is to put a 5hz tone on a rotary woofer and it feels like having hurricane Andrew outside your house, but it is A NOVELTY. I did not miss that octave in the least bit in the 3 weeks I played with the Q's. Perhaps you will have a chance to compare and contrast both systems.
DIGITAL FEEDING is a night day difference with alcons and perhaps the reason their subs and tops sounded inferior to the digital channels, haze, headroom restraint, lack of cleanliness. Phantom believes the QSB's are cleaner than a stack of F2, ain't that a consideration in an squeaky clean Ribbon system?
So let's see. Nothing wrong in trying both out, I will be the first to validate your assertion , although probably both solutions will excell.
I agree both systems should be excellent and highly enjoyable. I would suggest a deeper understanding of why you have possibly enjoyed the digital inputs more would open you to additional solutions and options. First, most high power, class D amplifiers are NOT power DACs. There are a few of these designs out there, where Tact had/has a few, Wadia demonstrated one monster and later offered very small versions, and I believe TI has a chipset for small amplifiers using this technique. In fact there is no direct benefit to having a digital input vs analog input to the amplifier itself. It is not the digital input at the amplifier you are liking, rather it is the digital input to the DSP in the amplifiers.
The elimination of an additional ADC step is the real benefit, particularly with full range speakers. The ADC is the step of the added DSP in the amplifier which has the most detrimental effect and can add background noise. My point here is that you should get similarly preferred results if you move the crossovers to the Trinnov and use an amplifier without DSP on the input. The catch of course is having a comparable crossover you can enter in the Trinnov rather than just a generic high/low pass and delay. For systems where going fully active from the Trinnov would use too many channels, that is where a digital input to a DSP in an amplifier for an active speaker can certainly be worthwhile.
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX
If we going to worry about numbers in IMMERSIVE CINEMA we have a lot to worry about in the channel sufficiency department.
Do you have the capabilities of measuring the LFE extension in this list?
. That would be beneficial information.
Also what haven's if you drive the system really hard and realistic (loud
) how do the subs hold off versus the sink cooled design? Because that impacts cleanliness BIG TIME.
Re Atmos LFE Range: If there ain't much below 20 then....you see my point. This is a reason why I stopped dwelling on using rotaries lately, because I spoke to the head of Atmos and the mixes are not supoosed to go below 20. We can ask him again at Cinemacon.
I was one of the early ones to experience the Thigpen TRW in a home. It easily lets us experiment and evaluate what's possible from lots of headroom at the lowest frequencies. It also still needs a full subwoofer compliment with it, and has many drawbacks to installation in the form of total space used, operational noise/noise floor, blending with conventional subs, and of course cost. It's important to note that in a fully enclosed room, the smaller the room, the less advantageous the TRW is vs conventional subwoofers. I would argue that in rooms under ~10,000 cu.ft., it's significantly more beneficial to the end bass performance and uniformity to use arrays of many sealed subwoofers rather than a couple subs with limited bass extension. You get the below 10Hz extension, tons of clean dynamic headroom, and uniform response across the seats at the same time. Any of the headroom from the higher efficiency subs is quickly negated with multiple units that deliver much more below 20Hz. You are correct that some of the biggest air-movers are not as articulate, clean and dynamic as the higher efficiency type designs like the big ported Volt drivers. Of course not all higher excursion drivers have those pitfalls. While I do recommend more boxes/drivers, they can typically be driven from only a few amplifier channels, keeping wiring and costs realistic. Looking at the acoustics, most benefit from driving groups of subwoofers at different areas with common signals. For someone so eager to place speakers everywhere in the room, I'm surprised you have been rather shy with the number of subwoofers you use in a space.
There is still plenty of <20Hz content coming out. Here are two quick examples of Atmos tracks that certainly benefit from deep extension. Hopefully Kaleidescape keeps moving forward with more 4k content with Atmos tracks as that chart shows the two don't always coincide.
Here is one of a few clips I recently saw posted of Deep Water Horizon's opening scene:
Here is one compilation someone did of Hacksaw Ridge comparing the digital signal to that measured in a few rooms with sealed subs that extend to ~5Hz: