New Flagship SONY 4K HDR Direct RGB Laser Projector - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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New Flagship SONY 4K HDR Direct RGB Laser Projector

UPDATED (31st March 2017):



NEW SONY 4K HDR NEXT-GENERATION RGB LASER CINEMA PROJECTOR AT CINEMACON 2017


Hi Folks,

Sony dropped a bombshell at CinemaCon 2017 where it announced and demoed what we consider to be the highlight of the whole show, namely the prototype for a brand new ground-breaking and potentially game-changing native 4K HDR RGB laser projector.

We were fortunate to be given an exclusive interview with Sony plus a private demonstration the day before CinemaCon opening. Here is the detailed information relating to this exciting new projector product:

SUMMARY INFORMATION:


• New technology (NOT an expansion on the pre-existing SRX-500 series)
• Next generation laser technology
• True direct RGB laser projector
• True green laser diode
• Dual source optical engine comprising single optical assembly with six panels
• SXRD LCoS
• Native 4K
• Projects two native 4K images simultaneously through single lens
• 30,000 Lumens brightness
• Minimum average 8,000:1 native/sequential contrast. Final product may be (we think probably will be) higher than this.
• HDR ready
• WCG with very high percentage of BT.2020 colour
• Superior colour performance due to all of R, G, and B being direct laser
• Very high quality lenses and optics
• Good uniformity
• Dual polarisation
• Negligible speckle (both 2D and 3D) due to dual light engines, orthogonal polarised light and wavelength diversity
• Very considerably less speckle as compared with 6P
• No need for screen vibration or any other de-speckling methods
• Single 4K lens for both 2D and 3D without lens swap
• Very bright 3D. Only a very small reduction in brightness with 3D
• Considerably higher 3D efficiency than 6P
• No 3D filters
• No triple flash
• Easy-on-the-eye 3D
• 3D less fatiguing than typical 6P
• Comparatively small footprint and dimensions
• Comparatively low cost
• Supports up to 120 fps high frame rate
• Capable of being installed into a Home Theater/Cinema
• Shipping 2018
• There will be more than one version of this projector

Please find our full article and report live from CinemaCon 2017 ATTACHED to this post, which you can download HERE:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf NEW SONY 4K HDR NEXT-GENERATION RGB LASER CINEMA PROJECTOR AT CINEMACON 2017.pdf (502.8 KB, 237 views)

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post #2 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 06:06 PM
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Bloody hell.

That sure sounds pretty amazing to me...

I want one.

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post #3 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 06:15 PM
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Woah! Could this represent a revolutionary leap in HDR performance for projection?

It's very good to see that Sony is investing money and effort into further R&D for front projection, and not just sitting idly by while flat panel technology keeps advancing. This sounds very intriguing, I can't wait to learn more about it!
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post #4 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 06:29 PM
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Time to sell my 5000ES??
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post #5 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Javs View Post
Bloody hell.

That sure sounds pretty amazing to me...

I want one.
That is pretty much precisely what I said when I first learned of this!

That said, I am personally a Doubting Thomas... and so suffice to say that whilst our sources are solid, I won't be believing any of this until after I have seen it in person. Because for example 'high contrast' could mean comparatively speaking versus other direct RGB laser projectors, in which case 6,000:1 native ON/OFF qualifies as being referred to as 'high contrast', as per the BARCO THOR for example... But where with respect to HT as far as we are concerned 'high contrast' means in the same ballpark as say for example the JVC X9500 which has a native ON/OFF contrast typically ranging from circa 50,000:1 - 160,000:1. So I will be reserving judgement until I have personally eyeballed the demo unit, where I will post on here what are my initial impressions, along with the full extent of whatever technical information and performance figures I am able to extract from Sony, where I am hoping that I won't be seeing any infinity symbols anywhere if you know what I mean Further to this, we are also interested to learn what to expect in the way of ANSI contrast where it would be nice if this too is decent.

Being realistic what we are hoping for is native contrast performance figures lying somewhere between these ranges, such as ranging from circa 20,000:1 - 30,000:1, but this is pure speculation and we won't really know what to expect regarding contrast performance until we attend the demo at CinemaCon.

Either way, it's very exciting. Could this be the projector we have all been waiting for?
.
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post #6 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Time to sell my 5000ES??
We are looking forward to reading your review of the new projector Joe
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post #7 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 07:01 PM
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post #8 of 263 Old 03-15-2017, 07:57 PM
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Are we going to see it in Cedia 2017 as well?
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Are we going to see it in Cedia 2017 as well?
Don't know, but we will be sure to ask the question.. and similarly with respect to IFA 2017 and CES 2018
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post #10 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 12:49 AM
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I find it a bit awkward and too early to introduce another flagship pj after the 5000ES. I don't know maybe something different for pro-cinema market? It has not been a year since 5000 was released. So, we now have to worry about upgrading after 6-8 months
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post #11 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 12:57 AM
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Awaiting the retraction on April 1
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post #12 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 02:16 AM
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Truly interesting indeed! However, being released at CinemaCon indicated this being a commercial cinema projector, right? Still, dual RGB, i.e. 6P laser is certainly very attractive in terms of 3D reproduction if they have managed to get a color filtered solution working, I´ve seen the Barco Thor @ 3D and it really excells in such regards.

Speckle, however, would be an interesting and possible shortcoming I guess? Same goes for contrast... Perhaps they have been able to utilise a similar "4-chip" system like Christie, i.e. their "1.000.000:1" Dolby Cinema 4-chip DLP system (3-chip RGB + light blocking chip, http://www.firstshowing.net/2015/dol...ction-demo/)?? Doubtly so, but using a fourth (or second in a 1-chip-system) certainly seems like a brilliant idea actually enabling per pixel "iris"; me wants!!

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post #13 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 02:22 AM
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I find it a bit awkward and too early to introduce another flagship pj after the 5000ES. I don't know maybe something different for pro-cinema market? It has not been a year since 5000 was released. So, we now have to worry about upgrading after 6-8 months

Not what I hear. The 5000 a doorstop come xmas, could be. they are going to do 2 light engines in one but on parallel not on series. This is the same technology as the locomotive i mentioned at Cinemacon thread. I took pictures of the proto and 5 sony techs nearly jumped me.
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post #14 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ARROW-AV View Post
That is pretty much precisely what I said when I first learned of this!

That said, I am personally a Doubting Thomas... and so suffice to say that whilst our sources are solid, I won't be believing any of this until after I have seen it in person. Because for example 'high contrast' could mean comparatively speaking versus other direct RGB laser projectors, in which case 6,000:1 native ON/OFF qualifies as being referred to as 'high contrast', as per the BARCO THOR for example... But where with respect to HT as far as we are concerned 'high contrast' means in the same ballpark as say for example the JVC X9500 which has a native ON/OFF contrast typically ranging from circa 50,000:1 minimum to 160,000:1 maximum and with 1,600,000:1 dynamic contrast... So I will be reserving judgement until I have personally eyeballed the demo unit, where I will post on here what are my initial impressions, along with the full extent of whatever technical information and performance figures I am able to extract from Sony, where I am hoping that I won't be seeing any infinity symbols anywhere if you know what I mean

Being realistic what we are hoping for is native contrast performance figures lying somewhere between these ranges, such as ranging from circa 20,000:1 - 60,000:1, but this is pure speculation and we won't really know what to expect regarding contrast performance until we attend the demo at CinemaCon.

Either way, it's very exciting. Could this be the projector we have all been waiting for?
.
Hey Robin do not confuse cr. augmentation on LCOS with DLP, one is a cynch the other quite more complicated, it is very easily achieved because of the light polaeization element.. Also LCOS low ansi means quite a bit less RGB speckling, but there was huge blobs of magenta and cyan on a white field laswt year, so they will need a camera autocal. Which I am sure they do.

It is a great idea. two light engines going through one lens, usable both for 3D4k and HDR.
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Hey Robin do not confuse cr. augmentation on LCOS with DLP, one is a cynch the other quite more complicated, it is very easily achieved because of the light polaeization element.. Also LCOS low ansi means quite a bit less RGB speckling, but there was huge blobs of magenta and cyan on a white field laswt year, so they will need a camera autocal. Which I am sure they do. It is a great idea. two light engines going through one lens, usable both for 3D4k and HDR.
We are not confusing anything Peter As it happens I very, very nearly added "(Sorry Peter!)" after "LcOS" in our post ^^^ because we know you are not a fan

This projector has been in R&D for quite a while now and has seemingly been one of those 'it's ready when it's ready' type of development projects, so given the lengthy time period spent in development if Sony is now rolling out the product finally it should be ready and hence any and all such issues should be fully resolved... Hopefully! But we shall see!
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Truly interesting indeed! However, being released at CinemaCon indicated this being a commercial cinema projector, right?
Our source has confirmed that Sony intends on selling this projector into both the consumer home cinema/theater and commercial cinema markets. We would hazard a guess that, as is often done, a singular product is developed and then this is tweaked both for the consumer home cinema/theater, and separately for commercial cinema/professional use, thereby resulting it two slightly differing products.

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Speckle, however, would be an interesting and possible shortcoming I guess?
Good point! I don't suppose you can recommend a projection screen material that eliminates speckle?

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Same goes for contrast... Perhaps they have been able to utilise a similar "4-chip" system like Christie, i.e. their "1.000.000:1" Dolby Cinema 4-chip DLP system (3-chip RGB + light blocking chip, http://www.firstshowing.net/2015/dol...ction-demo/)?? Doubtly so, but using a fourth (or second in a 1-chip-system) certainly seems like a brilliant idea actually enabling per pixel "iris";
We've been informed it's "HIGH CONTRAST" but like we said ^^^ this could mean anything from 6,000:1 native ON/OFF upwards... The proof of the pudding as they say! Suffice to say we want to be seeing something other than light to medium grays at the demo!

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me wants!!
Oi, get in line! There's a queue matey!
.
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post #17 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 04:41 AM
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Let's start the "Wheel of Fortune" MSRP game.... who's first to guess the price?

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Let's start the "Wheel of Fortune" MSRP game.... who's first to guess the price?





$80K......and I'll buy your used 5000ES!

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$80K......and I'll buy your used 5000ES!
My "used" one only has 10 hours on it.

My Sony 5000ES Review PART 2 FINISHED:
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Oi, get in line! There's a queue matey!
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And I hope it is smaller than a refrigerator...
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post #21 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 06:14 AM
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As has been said high contrast is a meaningless term and only matters in relationship to real measured contrast of a production unit.


But looking forward to it very much !!!!


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That should be about the time my theater is finished...

Looks like technology is moving forward.. fast!

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post #23 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 06:59 AM
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My guess is the VW5000 will carry through. With the new RGB laser priced above the VW5000. I am guessing at nearly double the price.
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My "used" one only has 10 hours on it.
Two of those hours would have been from Ken's calibration. You have hardly used your 5000. I am surprised that you have so few hours on it.

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post #25 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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And I hope it is smaller than a refrigerator...
Good news! We have it on good authority that it is very slightly smaller than this refrigerator:

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post #26 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 07:59 AM
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Awesome.

I wonder what supplier Sony uses for their green lasers. Does anyone know?
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post #27 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 08:18 AM
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The price will obviously be far above what I will spend on a projector, but the great part is that direct RGB laser is starting to come to the HT market, and this tech will over the next 5-8 years be refined and slowly trickle down to more affordable machines. And it creates competition in the market by pushing technology, which we all benefit from.

This thing is going to be a typical "bleeding edge" type of tech, and thus priced accordingly. I would be very (pleasantly) surprised if they priced it under 100k$, but why would they. It's Sony, and they don't exactly "hold back" on pricing when they don't have to.
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post #28 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 09:00 AM
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$80K......and I'll buy your used 5000ES!
Me too! Me too!

I call second dibs on someone's used 5000!!

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post #29 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 11:35 AM
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I saw the hush hush prototype last year, and after a few minutes of content they went to work on the uniformity at which point they put up a white field, as they discussed how to confiscate my phone and get me out of the room, THERE WAS NO SPECKLE VISIBLE AT 2 meters. I looked.

But to get scholloled on speckle one has to attend the realD Ultimate screen demo, it's an eye opener.

Last years unit was 6.5 feet long 3 feet wide and 3.5 high, and it looked like this locomotive but in Black Patent Leather.



Sony has been sent packing out od the Commercial Cinema Business because of the unifomity woes... It will be interesting to see how they fare, as it is a killer app.

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post #30 of 263 Old 03-16-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
Me too! Me too!

I call second dibs on someone's used 5000!!

Kevin

Well, if this turns out to be what it is touted to be there will be a few around.


Art

...
Art Sonneborn is offline  
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Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

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hdr , laser , native 4k , projector , Sony

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