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post #1 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Samsung Debuts World's First Cinema LED Screen

Samsung has installed the first Cinema LED Screen in a South Korean commercial cinema. Hopefully, it's a harbinger of things to come.

http://www.avsforum.com/samsung-debu...ma-led-screen/

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post #2 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 01:04 PM
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Yea ! So many great things can come along with this. As I said soon projection will look dated IMO. I don't think that turn will take long either.


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post #3 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 01:46 PM
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should be good, hopefully it, or something comparable, becomes mainstream.

it'll be nice for commercial cinemas to once again have something that can't be match(usually beaten) at home. projection at home just works better due to control on lighting, smaller screen, etc. so it sounds like these LED panels will finally be able to get around the ambient light limitations of a commercial theater.

should be interesting to hear what they do for sound, but if they are doing phantom imaging, then maybe they'll be able to match up those phantom locations precisely to what's going on on screen

fortunately i'm so dissatisfied with current theaters, pretty much any change seems like it's worth a fair shot to me

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post #4 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 01:55 PM
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I wonder how Barco feels about this?
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post #5 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 02:42 PM
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So how big is one of the tiles and how does its physical array work? 34 feet / 4096 = 1/10" per 3-LED cluster. That means a very small -- but doable -- border gap. (Have to be set-screws, not clips, to adjust horiz/vert alignment.) Surely this is a nice application, but is anything about it a scientific breakthru, given the previous existence of RGB billboards?
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post #6 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 02:47 PM
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The death of the projector is upon us?
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post #7 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 02:52 PM
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500nits?! not bright enough... has to be 2000+ nits or it doesn't count as HDR!!



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post #8 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 03:03 PM
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If that means there are speakers above, below, and on both sides of the screen, it should be possible to create phantom images anywhere on the screen. Actually, this could be more precise than conventional speakers behind a projection screen.
How so? All scientific research so far suggests that the opposite is true.
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post #9 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 03:16 PM
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Projector technology will never die because ultimately the technology can integrate well into devices like a future smartphone. Projectors are small and easy to transport while screens are cheap. I have been in some movie theaters in bad neighborhoods where the screen is constantly being repatched due to thrown objects and bullets. I don't think we will see any 35 foot HDR screens in the hood anytime soon. The LG PF1500 has sold for under $1K and rivals many circa 2015 TVs for picture quality when taken down to 65", though it looks just as good at 120". Right now, things are slow but eventually we will see a bright 4K HDR projector hit market that will outclass the non-QD LCDs and be a step below OLED for a fraction of the price at a large screen size.
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post #10 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 03:18 PM
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Colour Capability

Gamut??
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post #11 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 04:27 PM
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Can a measly 150" for my living room wall be far behind, all for a mere 10k or less?

Ah, yes, the future is rosy.
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post #12 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 05:12 PM
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The only drawback? The screen is not acoustically transparent, so the front speakers cannot be placed behind it. But, that shouldn’t be a problem, since Samsung recently acquired Harman. In fact, the Sculpted Surround sound system is provided by JBL with speakers bordering the screen. If that means there are speakers above, below, and on both sides of the screen, it should be possible to create phantom images anywhere on the screen. Actually, this could be more precise than conventional speakers behind a projection screen.
Cool! I wonder if a podcast or article on the audio tech to support this could be done. I'd find it fascinating. I'm imagining a line array for the center perhaps with alternating center height and center and some sort of processing to create a virtual vertical "stereo" to place the sounds in the vertical plane

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I wonder how Barco feels about this?
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The death of the projector is upon us?
Hummm...Barco/Christi have their own LED wall solutions. Their sales reps are already saying LED wall will replace projection. That might mean different work for me, early this week I set projection for 5 screens 3 screens used 2 projectors each stacked and converged, so 8 projectors total.

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post #13 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 05:32 PM
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What about the center speaker? How are they going to make the screen acoustically transparent?

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post #14 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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What about the center speaker? How are they going to make the screen acoustically transparent?
They aren't. I suspect there are speakers above and below the screen to reproduce the center channel.
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post #15 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 06:04 PM
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ppi on this is horrible right??
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post #16 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 06:23 PM
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They aren't. I suspect there are speakers above and below the screen to reproduce the center channel.
Thanks. I'll take projection then.
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post #17 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 06:37 PM
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Make this acoustically transparent...

....then you may have my soul, Samsung.
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post #18 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 08:12 PM
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Will this be better than what we already have at home? Seems to me this should be 8K at least. I'm sure "Dunkirk" shot on Imax film will blow this away.
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post #19 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 09:02 PM
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Yes PPI is about 10. 2.5mm pitch the lowest Samsung offers in its regular indoor public signage line up.

Cost per M2 doubles at each 0.3 mm reduction in pixel pitch, so if you go down to 0.7 mm pitch...
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post #20 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post
500nits?! not bright enough... has to be 2000+ nits or it doesn't count as HDR!!



(let the flame wars begin)
Doesn't Dolby Cinema only have like less than 200nits? It's HDR and it looks damn good for a theater.

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post #21 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Aetherhole View Post
500nits?! not bright enough... has to be 2000+ nits or it doesn't count as HDR!!



(let the flame wars begin)
i thought we were done with wearing glasses for movies

while i disagree that there's a need for more, for those who think there is, this is a HUGE start, but it is ONLY the start.

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post #22 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 11:19 PM
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How so? All scientific research so far suggests that the opposite is true.
no science to back it up, but on pure speculation...

this might 'force their hand' so to speak. even with atmos, the front stage is somewhat channel limited, because it doesn't need more. but with all the speakers around the periphery of the screen, maybe they'll be forced to add more independent channels to make up for it.

i know a lot of people, especially around here like to flash their golden ears cards, but i have to admit the difference between stereo, and having a dedicated center channel sounds pretty minimal to me, at least in terms of imaging. i mean, it's not like i'll be listening and trying to figure out where the dialogue is coming from, and i've been fooled by some good recordings into thinking something was going on directly behind me too. so i'm keeping an open mind to say the least.
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post #23 of 88 Old 07-14-2017, 11:49 PM
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no science to back it up, but on pure speculation...

this might 'force their hand' so to speak. even with atmos, the front stage is somewhat channel limited, because it doesn't need more. but with all the speakers around the periphery of the screen, maybe they'll be forced to add more independent channels to make up for it.

i know a lot of people, especially around here like to flash their golden ears cards, but i have to admit the difference between stereo, and having a dedicated center channel sounds pretty minimal to me, at least in terms of imaging. i mean, it's not like i'll be listening and trying to figure out where the dialogue is coming from, and i've been fooled by some good recordings into thinking something was going on directly behind me too. so i'm keeping an open mind to say the least.
I agree with you when it comes to seating within the sweet spot. And yes there are some amazing stereo recordings that have uncanny object placement, very cool!

I consider the center channel something for those that set outside the sweet spot, otherwise it's superfluous. I've got about a 2 person sweet spot, yes the exact center sounds better but the imaging is still pretty good for two people, for those outside of the sweet spot I think a center channel is of benefit to anchor the center. A center height channel would be another story.

LED wall's look great, I need no convincing, but I'm really curious as to the audio implementation.

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post #24 of 88 Old 07-15-2017, 12:32 AM
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the difference between stereo, and having a dedicated center channel sounds pretty minimal to me, at least in terms of imaging.
If you're sitting in the center, yes. If not then then the image breaks completely down. That's not tolerable in a cinema environment where the majority sits outside the sweet spot. See http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Interch...fferences1.pdf
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post #25 of 88 Old 07-15-2017, 02:20 AM
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Yea ! So many great things can come along with this. As I said soon projection will look dated IMO. I don't think that turn will take long either.


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Projector technology will never die because ultimately the technology can integrate well into devices like a future smartphone. Projectors are small and easy to transport while screens are cheap. I have been in some movie theaters in bad neighborhoods where the screen is constantly being repatched due to thrown objects and bullets. I don't think we will see any 35 foot HDR screens in the hood anytime soon. The LG PF1500 has sold for under $1K and rivals many circa 2015 TVs for picture quality when taken down to 65", though it looks just as good at 120". Right now, things are slow but eventually we will see a bright 4K HDR projector hit market that will outclass the non-QD LCDs and be a step below OLED for a fraction of the price at a large screen size.
The other thing to consider is that theaters may not want to completely redesign or install expensive wall displays. & projector technology will continue to improve which = more affordable for the time being. Another thing to consider is screens... replacing a projector might not be as big of a deal as replacing a giant display... though I've heard it's possible to make them out of many panels which can be replaced if one panel goes bad.
*But* by the time the panel goes bad a new tech might emerge & it may become impossible to replace just part of a display if the display panels are discontinued.
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post #26 of 88 Old 07-15-2017, 05:48 AM
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The other thing to consider is that theaters may not want to completely redesign or install expensive wall displays. & projector technology will continue to improve which = more affordable for the time being. Another thing to consider is screens... replacing a projector might not be as big of a deal as replacing a giant display... though I've heard it's possible to make them out of many panels which can be replaced if one panel goes bad.
*But* by the time the panel goes bad a new tech might emerge & it may become impossible to replace just part of a display if the display panels are discontinued.

If the local theater has this it will be the place to go trust me. If the others want to or not has nothing to do with it. If we would sit in a theater with full HDR at that light output and contrast movie goers will quickly feel slighted if the theater doesn't have it.


This will be the thing and it will be a must have to survive .


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post #27 of 88 Old 07-15-2017, 05:51 AM
 
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How so? All scientific research so far suggests that the opposite is true.
Certainly destructive interference from using two speakers to triangulate a phantom center channel will be worse than having that center channel in there in the first place, but I wonder if that new vibrating screen tech in those new TVs can be used here. It would be amazing to have pin-point control over each transducer in a grid-array to precisely focus sound. Awesome.
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post #28 of 88 Old 07-15-2017, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Yes PPI is about 10. 2.5mm pitch the lowest Samsung offers in its regular indoor public signage line up.
Cost per M2 doubles at each 0.3 mm reduction in pixel pitch, so if you go down to 0.7 mm pitch...
Note the size, viewing distance and then you notice PPI is fine.

The cost of producing 100 inch LED displays looks to me as strongly depending on the scale and automation of manufacturing. Besides, plants for assembling discrete LEDs should be much cheaper than ultrasophisticated OLED or LCD.
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post #29 of 88 Old 07-15-2017, 07:43 AM
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Certainly destructive interference from using two speakers to triangulate a phantom center channel will be worse than having that center channel in there in the first place, but I wonder if that new vibrating screen tech in those new TVs can be used here. It would be amazing to have pin-point control over each transducer in a grid-array to precisely focus sound. Awesome.
Yes, I was thinking the endgame for screen tech is emissive panels that also do audio, with sound objects that actually track what's seen on screen.

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post #30 of 88 Old 07-15-2017, 08:19 AM
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My concern about the phantom imaging sound solution is that such solutions usually result in sound feeling tight and compressed and not natural. And am I the only human being that doesn't want a display to be as bright as the surface of the sun?
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