Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K HDR Laser Projector at CEDIA 2017 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 203 Old 09-10-2017, 07:23 PM
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Why would you buy this when you can buy the short throw Laser powered at the same price??

= https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vz1000es
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post #62 of 203 Old 09-10-2017, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevrock17 View Post
Why would you buy this when you can buy the short throw Laser powered at the same price??

= https://www.sony.com/electronics/projector/vpl-vz1000es
Because max size of the short throw is 120" (diag 16:9 I assume). I wish it were not limited to that.. and also, I suspect (not sure) that the short throw might not have the same high end (zeiss?) lens as does the 885 (which I assume has the same lens as the 1100es and the 5000es). I have prior experience with Zeiss lens on my older Qualia and it is an amazing lens.. People pay a lot of attention to contrast ratios and lumens, which are obviously important, but not enough on the quality of a high end all glass lens. Personally, I would never buy a projector with plastic or low end lens.. someone wrote about Vivitek for $22k, 8000 lumens laser.. Sounds great but a $1200 lens would concern me..

I have tried a similar short throw projector from another manufacturer. It was low end but the picture was awful, as compared to the normal projectors at the same price point. Not sure why. I think it was optoma brand.. or epson.. not sure.
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post #63 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 02:49 AM
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Probably " the other forum ".
Got you. Will be waiting
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post #64 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Noah, the 14,999 euro is including VAT, so get one from Holland or Belgium that would be 11850 euro, without VAT. So at 1.2 USD to the Euro that would be around $14225, prior to shipping and customs.
I would absolutely have to consider ordering from the EU at these prices. For reference, the cost from the UK with VAT removed, prior to shipping and customs, is around $16.1k.

Anybody know of trustworthy dealers in the EU? A brief search for me netted nothing impressive.

Kevin
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post #65 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Because max size of the short throw is 120" (diag 16:9 I assume). I wish it were not limited to that.. and also, I suspect (not sure) that the short throw might not have the same high end (zeiss?) lens as does the 885 (which I assume has the same lens as the 1100es and the 5000es). I have prior experience with Zeiss lens on my older Qualia and it is an amazing lens.. People pay a lot of attention to contrast ratios and lumens, which are obviously important, but not enough on the quality of a high end all glass lens. Personally, I would never buy a projector with plastic or low end lens.. someone wrote about Vivitek for $22k, 8000 lumens laser.. Sounds great but a $1200 lens would concern me..

I have tried a similar short throw projector from another manufacturer. It was low end but the picture was awful, as compared to the normal projectors at the same price point. Not sure why. I think it was optoma brand.. or epson.. not sure.
Unfortunately, not the 1100es lens at this price point with laser. I'm hearing the same lens as on the lower priced Sony units.

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post #66 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 06:58 AM
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Yes, though this post was highlighted on the AVS homepage where many enter the site. My guess is that is where many of those posts come from.
Can someone answer me this question.

From the Sony website:

Maximum display resolution: 1,920 x 1,080 dots (HDMI Input only)

Isn't this Sony scaler fudge making?

Where does it say that it will take a true 4K source; input it signal and display true 4K output?

Curious inds would like to know.
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post #67 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 08:09 AM
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Unfortunately, not the 1100es lens at this price point with laser. I'm hearing the same lens as on the lower priced Sony units.

Kevin
Correct - same lens on the VVW285, 385, 675 and 885.
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post #68 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
I would absolutely have to consider ordering from the EU at these prices. For reference, the cost from the UK with VAT removed, prior to shipping and customs, is around $16.1k.

Anybody know of trustworthy dealers in the EU? A brief search for me netted nothing impressive.

Kevin
If you find anyone, please let me know.. Imagine, if we can get a discount from that price? Also, you might want to look into price japan. They had been selling the Sony 1100es, for under $13000. Shipping was around $500. They also say, I think, that in case of warranty issue, we can ship to them and they will help us deal with warranty.. The 1100es was at a higher list price than the 885.. They don't have 885 on their site yet..

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post #69 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin Snyder View Post
I would absolutely have to consider ordering from the EU at these prices. For reference, the cost from the UK with VAT removed, prior to shipping and customs, is around $16.1k.

Anybody know of trustworthy dealers in the EU? A brief search for me netted nothing impressive.

Kevin
Why would they remove the VAT? And what about shipping, customs and tax in the US? That alone should be 30%. Plus there will be zero warranty/Prime Support. The dealers in the US probably have a higher margin (than the European dealers) , so you might be better off finding a good deal in the US.
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post #70 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
Correct - same lens on the VVW285, 385, 675 and 885.
885 does not have the same lens as the 1100es/5000? Are you sure? If so, for me, that low end lens would rule the 885 out!
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post #71 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
885 does not have the same lens as the 1100es/5000? Are you sure? If so, for me, that low end lens would rule the 885 out!
Sony stated that the same lens is in all models now - supposedly improved over the previous lens, but it certainly is not the same lens as in the VW1100 or VW5000.
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post #72 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 11:30 AM
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Jetsen in this thread and the Sony 760 thread in the 3K+ section is a well known calibrator and dealer from Belgium. However he is doing a press/dealer presentation of the new line for Sony, so I am not sure if/how his relation with Sony would make him refrain from selling outside Belgium/Holland, ask him.
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post #73 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 11:37 AM
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The 1000 was going for what 8K in China, a HDMI cable vendor at ISE he had a large number across the country in demo, like the one he had at that European tradeshow.

One can sell without VAT to customers outside EU/EER. If people buy it the store, they can get a form to request a refund from the tax authorities. Of course one has to inform US customs when importing, burden to declare, is upon the importer. Hard to avoid on such a large expensive item.
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post #74 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
If you find anyone, please let me know.. Imagine, if we can get a discount from that price? Also, you might want to look into price japan. They had been selling the Sony 1100es, for under $13000. Shipping was around $500. They also say, I think, that in case of warranty issue, we can ship to them and they will help us deal with warranty.. The 1100es was at a higher list price than the 885.. They don't have 885 on their site yet..

Price Japan notes that they only ship domestic Japanese version, not any export version. So all the menus will be in Japanese??? At least one from the UK will have the menu in British English which would be a whole lot easier to understand for us Yankees
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post #75 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by donaldk View Post
Jetsen in this thread and the Sony 760 thread in the 3K+ section is a well known calibrator and dealer from Belgium. However he is doing a press/dealer presentation of the new line for Sony, so I am not sure if/how his relation with Sony would make him refrain from selling outside Belgium/Holland, ask him.
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Price Japan notes that they only ship domestic Japanese version, not any export version. So all the menus will be in Japanese??? At least one from the UK will have the menu in British English which would be a whole lot easier to understand for us Yankees

The same question/concern applies to Belgium, when Sony Japan exports projectors to them what language is the menu? Since they a few major languages, Flemish, French, and German. I might get the gist of German, but Flemish and French fuggetabouit.
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post #76 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 01:22 PM
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Price Japan notes that they only ship domestic Japanese version, not any export version. So all the menus will be in Japanese??? At least one from the UK will have the menu in British English which would be a whole lot easier to understand for us Yankees
I am not 100% certain but I believe that all Sony projectors have all languages.. The only problem would be, the initial setup to switch to english! Frankly, after reading that the 885 has the same lens as the 285, I am no longer interested in this projector. Laser would obviously improve contrast but it would not be worth $25k.. I would rather consider Barco Balder or DPI or Digital projection..
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post #77 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 01:42 PM
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Why would they remove the VAT? And what about shipping, customs and tax in the US? That alone should be 30%. Plus there will be zero warranty/Prime Support. The dealers in the US probably have a higher margin (than the European dealers) , so you might be better off finding a good deal in the US.
How do you find a good deal with SURE pricing? If Sony catches a dealer fudging the price, then they are dropped.

Several people have bought from Japan to avoid the SURE pricing, but there are risks with that as well.

Current projector - JVC RS25 and Marantz VP15S1
Future projector - pre-ordered new JVC from AVScience
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post #78 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
I am not 100% certain but I believe that all Sony projectors have all languages.. The only problem would be, the initial setup to switch to english! Frankly, after reading that the 885 has the same lens as the 285, I am no longer interested in this projector. Laser would obviously improve contrast but it would not be worth $25k.. I would rather consider Barco Balder or DPI or Digital projection..
Add the RS4500 to the list. Compared to the VW885 Sure price, the price isn't that much different. We've even had b stock units available. And it's a damn good projector, if it will fit in your installation. The 885 is smaller and quieter in high laser ( I assume - couldn't hear anything with the racket at Cedia ), but not as bright. Everything has it's compromises.

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post #79 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 02:47 PM
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Why would they remove the VAT? And what about shipping, customs and tax in the US? That alone should be 30%. Plus there will be zero warranty/Prime Support. The dealers in the US probably have a higher margin (than the European dealers) , so you might be better off finding a good deal in the US.
I don't live in the EU, so not required to pay VAT. Can you please give me your source for 30%? I don't believe that to be at all accurate. I've purchased many things and have had shipped from the EU, and have never been NEAR that. Obviously, different items have different customs charges, but we're not talking anywhere near 30%.

Let me know. Thanks!
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post #80 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 03:33 PM
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I don't live in the EU, so not required to pay VAT. Can you please give me your source for 30%? I don't believe that to be at all accurate. I've purchased many things and have had shipped from the EU, and have never been NEAR that. Obviously, different items have different customs charges, but we're not talking anywhere near 30%.

Let me know. Thanks!
Kevin

You are right, no European VAT. I can confirm this. I was only assuming 30% as
importing to Europe would be 19-20% tax plus ca. 5- 10% customs, plus shipping.

As a laser projector, it might have high US import fees. (LCD projectors are actually tax free in the US). Other than that I could not tell the huge price difference to the European market.
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post #81 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 05:09 PM
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Add the RS4500 to the list. Compared to the VW885 Sure price, the price isn't that much different. We've even had b stock units available. And it's a damn good projector, if it will fit in your installation. The 885 is smaller and quieter in high laser ( I assume - couldn't hear anything with the racket at Cedia ), but not as bright. Everything has it's compromises.
So that we can compare apples to apples, does anyone have a Japanese or European price on the JVC RS4500? The two projectors specs appear almost identical except for the lumens and the price.
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post #82 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 06:59 PM
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So that we can compare apples to apples, does anyone have a Japanese or European price on the JVC RS4500? The two projectors specs appear almost identical except for the lumens and the price.



They wouldn't be apples to apples then, any more than a VW885 and a VW5000 would be. Would they ?

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post #83 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post
[/B]

They wouldn't be apples to apples then, any more than a VW885 and a VW5000 would be. Would they ?
You are correct Craig, sorry for playing so loose with my English. Let me rephrase.

So that we can compare these 2 projector's value proposition, does anyone have a Japanese or European price on the JVC RS4500? The two projector's specs appear very similar except for the lumens and the price?

See what I did there, I removed any reference to fruit
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post #84 of 203 Old 09-11-2017, 11:25 PM
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So that we can compare apples to apples, does anyone have a Japanese or European price on the JVC RS4500? The two projectors specs appear almost identical except for the lumens and the price.
Hi, In Europe, JVC Z1 is 35000 €
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post #85 of 203 Old 09-12-2017, 12:11 AM
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Hi, In Europe, JVC Z1 is 35000 €
Thanks ganimedessp, that's about $42,000 US dollars so that is moving in the wrong direction. Good to know. It appears the JVC projector goes by the model number DLA-Z1 in Japan and on one site it was $3,778,790, yen, which appears to equate to $34,500 today, so no big savings there. It would appear that unlike the Sony, there may be no arbitrage available to buying its JVC competitor outside of the US if you are a US citizen.
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post #86 of 203 Old 09-12-2017, 06:35 AM
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I am not 100% certain but I believe that all Sony projectors have all languages.. The only problem would be, the initial setup to switch to english! Frankly, after reading that the 885 has the same lens as the 285, I am no longer interested in this projector. Laser would obviously improve contrast but it would not be worth $25k.. I would rather consider Barco Balder or DPI or Digital projection..

Would it be worth $15K, plus the $2-3K more for shipping/import/etc? After all, cost is the only reason we would even consider buying foreign. Of course, this all assumes it can be purchased at non-US pricing.
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post #87 of 203 Old 09-12-2017, 06:51 AM
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Would it be worth $15K, plus the $2-3K more for shipping/import/etc? After all, cost is the only reason we would even consider buying foreign. Of course, this all assumes it can be purchased at non-US pricing.
I am not certain but I think the shipping was going to be in the $500 range. I just checked price japan site. The Sony 1100es, listed at $28k in USA is being sold at about $12,600 + about $500 shipping (not sure of exact number). Shipping was certainly not in the $2000 range.

Using same numbers, if the 885 is at $10,000 to $12,000 from Japan - it would be an amazing price, I would assume.. Not sure what the taxes are.. google harmonized tariff schedule 8528. If you are serious about this, you can also ask price japan people.. they would advise you. I could not decipher whether it is duty free or 35%.. it was note 1 (0%) and note 2 (35%)


8528
Monitors and projectors, not incorporating television reception apparatus; reception apparatus for television, whether or not incorporating radio-broadcast receivers or sound or video recording or reproducing apparatus:





Cathode-ray tube monitors:



8528.42.00 00 Capable of directly connecting to and designed for use with an automatic data processing machine of heading 8471 note 1 No.
Free
note 2 35% 8528.49
Other:
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post #88 of 203 Old 09-12-2017, 07:01 AM
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I am not certain but I think the shipping was going to be in the $500 range. I just checked price japan site. The Sony 1100es, listed at $28k in USA is being sold at about $12,600 + about $500 shipping (not sure of exact number). Shipping was certainly not in the $2000 range.

Using same numbers, if the 885 is at $10,000 to $12,000 from Japan - it would be an amazing price, I would assume.. Not sure what the taxes are.. google harmonized tariff schedule 8528. If you are serious about this, you can also ask price japan people.. they would advise you. I could not decipher whether it is duty free or 35%.. it was note 1 (0%) and note 2 (35%)


8528
Monitors and projectors, not incorporating television reception apparatus; reception apparatus for television, whether or not incorporating radio-broadcast receivers or sound or video recording or reproducing apparatus:





Cathode-ray tube monitors:



8528.42.00 00 Capable of directly connecting to and designed for use with an automatic data processing machine of heading 8471 note 1 No.
Free
note 2 35% 8528.49
Other:




If it 0%, and they honor the warranty, then it will likely be a serious consideration. But if it 35% then the final cost may make the differential not that valuable or worth the trouble, making a UK purchase the better option and no issue with converting menus from Japanese to English.
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post #89 of 203 Old 09-12-2017, 07:19 AM
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If it 0%, and they honor the warranty, then it will likely be a serious consideration. But if it 35% then the final cost may make the differential not that valuable or worth the trouble, making a UK purchase the better option and no issue with converting menus from Japanese to English.
I have no interest in buying the 885 (mainly because of it not being the 1100es's lens and the 2000 lumens) but if I did, I would buy from price japan. I had looked into them in the past. They seem to be legit but I don't have personal experience with them.
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post #90 of 203 Old 09-12-2017, 07:42 AM
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I have no interest in buying the 885 (mainly because of it not being the 1100es's lens and the 2000 lumens) but if I did, I would buy from price japan. I had looked into them in the past. They seem to be legit but I don't have personal experience with them.

The lens while not the quality of the VW1100, VW5000, or the RS4500, I am willing to wait to see what reviewers say about the 'improved' lens relative to the best lens, specifically, how noticeable in real world viewing does it make.


Now, 2000 lumens, well, that definitely is either enough, depending on screen/viewing environment or not enough, especially since projectors are already hamstrung for HDR compared to flat panels. If HDR is of any interest, it seems that getting at least 30fL is the bare minimum and closer to 80-90 fL will get the best that at least projected images can show for now.
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