Sony VPL-VW885ES 4K HDR Laser Projector at CEDIA 2017 - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Noah Winter View Post
Thanks ganimedessp, that's about $42,000 US dollars so that is moving in the wrong direction. Good to know. It appears the JVC projector goes by the model number DLA-Z1 in Japan and on one site it was $3,778,790, yen, which appears to equate to $34,500 today, so no big savings there. It would appear that unlike the Sony, there may be no arbitrage available to buying its JVC competitor outside of the US if you are a US citizen.
No, but there are occasional RS4500 b stock units available in the US for considerable savings over new.
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post #92 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 12:24 PM
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I posted this on the $3k+ forum, but figured I would put it here.

I was thinking about the $25k and $5k Sony models in the US getting the same lenses. I know JVC hand picking parts for higher priced models bothers a lot of people, but if I was buying the $25k Sony I would want them to hand pick the best lenses and not just be a crap shoot where a person buying the $5k model is likely to get just as good a lens.

Seems like the volumes have to be significantly lower on the $25k product than the $5k product, so separating the best lenses out wouldn't have that much effect on the $5k projectors. It would require some effort on Sony's (or their lens manufacturer's) part though.

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post #93 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
885 does not have the same lens as the 1100es/5000? Are you sure? If so, for me, that low end lens would rule the 885 out!
If the lens is the hold back, then I would look at a B-stock RS4500.

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post #94 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 05:27 PM
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A lot of pushing for the Z1 in the 885 thread. Might not be a bad idea to at least see one or read some Reviews on the 885 before you dismiss it.
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post #95 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 05:43 PM
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All I can say is, I spent several hours with the 885, and the 885 directly up against the 4500 in the same room one screen over, and the 885 looks pretty darn good! Also, despite the claims, brightness levels are almost identical. There was a group of over 50 of us the first time, and about 15 the second time. Everyone pretty much agreed, extremely difficult to tell them apart. In fact during several different HDR scenes, the nod went to the Sony all the way around. The results were eye opening and fascinating, with both being outstanding right out of the box.
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post #96 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 06:25 PM
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In fact during several different HDR scenes, the nod went to the Sony all the way around.
Was the nod just barely a nod or more?
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post #97 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 06:52 PM
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All I can say is, I spent several hours with the 885, and the 885 directly up against the 4500 in the same room one screen over, and the 885 looks pretty darn good! Also, despite the claims, brightness levels are almost identical. There was a group of over 50 of us the first time, and about 15 the second time. Everyone pretty much agreed, extremely difficult to tell them apart. In fact during several different HDR scenes, the nod went to the Sony all the way around. The results were eye opening and fascinating, with both being outstanding right out of the box.
They had an earlier private demo just before the 5pm shootout last Friday which I snuck in and even noticed several avsforum members present. They were showing a demo of the 2 projectors but it was cut short because closed to 5pm they had to restart the shootout in that same room.

Anyhow when they were showing scenes from Planet Earth II, it was hard to tell between the two which was sharper and had more detail because they were very close to tell. But when a scene got paused showing an image of a boulder there was little noise from the crowd. To my eyes more image depth and detail on that boulder came with the Sony. The longer I stared at both images the more dimensional it looked on the Sony side. Same was the reaction from the crowd I guess.

So I've wondered how much better can this 885 get had the Arc F lens been installed. Sony may have felt that their lens in the 885 was already good enough for market competition. Well several of us were really that impressed with the Peru 4K trailer at the show floor demo...Tom Norton was. But I would just wait for Ekki for his hands on review.
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post #98 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 07:15 PM
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To my eyes more image depth and detail on that boulder came with the Sony. The longer I stared at both images the more dimensional it looked on the Sony side. Same was the reaction from the crowd I guess.

So I've wondered how much better can this 885 get had the Arc F lens been installed.
Thanks for the good post. What is Arc F lens? How wide was the screen?
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post #99 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 07:30 PM
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Thanks for the good post. What is Arc F lens? How wide was the screen?
I think it's the lens used for Sony's VW1000es model. The screen was 160" diagonal...close to 12 ft. wide.
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post #100 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 07:47 PM
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Thinking out loud: Why couldn't I go to Belgium and buy one and bring it back with me?
Philadelphia - Copenhagen - Philadelphia
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Save $95 by leaving on Tuesday, October 10th and returning on Monday, October 30th
$700.00 + 138.04 Taxes and Fees = $838.04
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post #101 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 08:52 PM
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Then a train from Copenhagen to Brussels? Sounds like an adventure. I flew to Philadelphia once to pick up a b stock Sony 7000es while on business. That was not nearly as interesting. Perhaps could get family buy in if it was couched as "a husband and wife getaway"?
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post #102 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Was the nod just barely a nod or more?
Pretty neck and neck most of the time, with the Sony edging past on a few occasions. Otherwise, if you didn't know which was on which screen, it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference, color included... That whole Sony presentation/training class was really revealing. Even the new baby Sony 285 beat out the 4050 and Optoma on hand, ESPECIALLY in HDR, and equaled them both in brightness. The 285 spec's only 1500 lumens, but it was as bright or brighter as the 2500 lumen competitor. There were some 'oh wow' moments amongst all of us several times as Sony showed how their HDR rendering was superior to the others. I went to the full class twice and really enjoyed it. In fact, the flat panel training and shoot outs were just as revealing.

One 'wow moment' I caught when the 885 and 4500 were up there, was when they went to the Oppo home screen. The Sony clearly showed the 'Milky Way' galaxy in the static back drop image, while the 4500 did not nearly as definitively. Another cool moment was how the Sony handled HDR intensity. You can raise and lower without changing the colors. When this was tried using the contrast control on the 4500, it messed up the colors. But again, both projectors are wonderful, and are really even for all intensive purposes.
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post #103 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 09:49 PM
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Was the nod just barely a nod or more?
You mean a nod and a wink?

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post #104 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 09:54 PM
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Pretty neck and neck most of the time, with the Sony edging past on a few occasions. Otherwise, if you didn't know which was on which screen, it would be nearly impossible to tell the difference, color included... That whole Sony presentation/training class was really revealing. Even the new baby Sony 285 beat out the 4050 and Optoma on hand, ESPECIALLY in HDR, and equaled them both in brightness. The 285 spec's only 1500 lumens, but it was as bright or brighter as the 2500 lumen competitor. There were some 'oh wow' moments amongst all of us several times as Sony showed how their HDR rendering was superior to the others. I went to the full class twice and really enjoyed it. In fact, the flat panel training and shoot outs were just as revealing.

One 'wow moment' I caught when the 885 and 4500 were up there, was when they went to the Oppo home screen. The Sony clearly showed the 'Milky Way' galaxy in the static back drop image, while the 4500 did not nearly as definitively. Another cool moment was how the Sony handled HDR intensity. You can raise and lower without changing the colors. When this was tried using the contrast control on the 4500, it messed up the colors. But again, both projectors are wonderful, and are really even for all intensive purposes.
Last year an ISF calibrator here at AVS noted that he could tell the non-Sony projectors were not calibrated to their potential, and that he offered to calibrate them and of course was refused.
This was a Sony demo, right? When one company demos a competitor its easy to do things to shine their own product. I'm not saying this was done. But this has to be a legitimate concern assuming that this was Sony's demo. And I'm not saying the 885 isn't a great projector, either!
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post #105 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 10:15 PM
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Thinking out loud: Why couldn't I go to Belgium and buy one and bring it back with me?
Philadelphia - Copenhagen - Philadelphia
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Only 2 tickets left at this price!
Save $95 by leaving on Tuesday, October 10th and returning on Monday, October 30th
$700.00 + 138.04 Taxes and Fees = $838.04
Final total price (taxes & fees included)
That is an interesting proposition. That is kind of like buying a car and then going to Europe to pick it up.

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Last year an ISF calibrator here at AVS noted that he could tell the non-Sony projectors were not calibrated to their potential, and that he offered to calibrate them and of course was refused.
This was a Sony demo, right? When one company demos a competitor its easy to do things to shine their own product. I'm not saying this was done. But this has to be a legitimate concern assuming that this was Sony's demo. And I'm not saying the 885 isn't a great projector, either!
That was Kris Deering. He told Sony that he would be happy to calibrate the pjs in the demo, but they refused. IIRC he offered to calibrate the 5000 in their booth and they refused. Ironically, a lot of people thought the Sony booth looked like crap, but the Ken Whitcomb calibrated 5000 in the Wisdom booth looked like best in show.
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post #106 of 202 Old 09-12-2017, 11:32 PM
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Last year an ISF calibrator here at AVS noted that he could tell the non-Sony projectors were not calibrated to their potential, and that he offered to calibrate them and of course was refused.
This was a Sony demo, right? When one company demos a competitor its easy to do things to shine their own product. I'm not saying this was done. But this has to be a legitimate concern assuming that this was Sony's demo. And I'm not saying the 885 isn't a great projector, either!
Indeed! One of the benefits of this deal was we got to go through and verify all of the settings, on all of the projectors, to make sure it was an even match up. They were really wide open to input and transparency. I and others appreciated that. Philip kept saying the only way this was worth anything was if all things were equal in the setup. He said that's why they didn't have a 5000 in there. It wouldn't be fair. I've never ever seen them do something like this before. They really stuck it all out there, and they were very complimentary of all the other projectors with exception of the other's lumen's claims... They went for throat in this area, even to go as far as using a light meter to measure each screen during static shots. In some cases the Sony's measured higher, and in other cases the others measured higher. But it was always very close. The problem was the other's claimed lumen specs were in some cases 500-1000 lumens higher than the comparable Sony published specs. The whole thing was pretty unprecedented...
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post #107 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 05:39 AM
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This was a Sony demo, right? When one company demos a competitor its easy to do things to shine their own product. I'm not saying this was done. But this has to be a legitimate concern assuming that this was Sony's demo. And I'm not saying the 885 isn't a great projector, either!
Good point. Assuming it was a Sony Demo.. They might have even handicapped the JVC's projector. I would be shocked, if they did not.. This might very well mean that they could not make JVC look much worse.. which implies JVC z1 is a great projector.. Btw, I have always been a fan of Sony's projectors and not a fan of JVC's.. So, I am not promoting anything here.. I would probably not buy the JVC anyway.. Typically, I have always prefered the picture of the Sony's.. I would probably want to buy the Barco Balder, if I find a great deal.. Balder? Stupid name, though! Who would want to go Balder?
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post #108 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 07:38 AM
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Thinking out loud: Why couldn't I go to Belgium and buy one and bring it back with me?
Philadelphia - Copenhagen - Philadelphia
Random Dates
Only 2 tickets left at this price!
Save $95 by leaving on Tuesday, October 10th and returning on Monday, October 30th
$700.00 + 138.04 Taxes and Fees = $838.04
Final total price (taxes & fees included)

Have you ever seen how baggage handlers handle the luggage and then see how it all comes out on the luggage retrieval turn about??? I shutter to think what my projector would like after that. Now, if you are talking about going there, purchase one and take it to say FedEx location and send it to yourself then maybe, even with import duties/taxes/shipping/customs/insurance etc would still not cost the $10,000 difference. If it needed to be sent back to Belgium for any warranty issues then that savings may begin to dwindle significantly not to mention the hassle of international shipping.


I've quickly looked for Sony dealers in the UK selling the VW760, but none so far ship internationally, I guess they even figure the hassle isn't worth the profit.
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post #109 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 08:17 AM
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I've quickly looked for Sony dealers in the UK selling the VW760, but none so far ship internationally, I guess they even figure the hassle isn't worth the profit.
Just did a very brief search, and found the site 'Projectorpoint'. I obviously didn't go through the whole process, but the site does allow you to choose the USA for shipping. Not near as good a deal as ordering from the EU in terms of exchange rates, though.


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post #110 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 08:53 AM
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A lot of pushing for the Z1 in the 885 thread. Might not be a bad idea to at least see one or read some Reviews on the 885 before you dismiss it.
Did not dismiss it. I thought the 885 looked very good. Some poster did not like that the 885 did not have the lens from the 1000, so mentioned another option.

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post #111 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 11:36 AM
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Just did a very brief search, and found the site 'Projectorpoint'. I obviously didn't go through the whole process, but the site does allow you to choose the USA for shipping. Not near as good a deal as ordering from the EU in terms of exchange rates, though.


Kevin


Thank Kevin, that gives some opportunity to research EU Sony dealers for international shipping. But, now we know of one non US dealer that may net us a better final and far more importantly FAIR price. If Sony USA were charging more than EU because of import tariffs/taxes/shipping I wouldn't be so fired up about it, but to charge us more because they view us as all either mostly wealthy or just too stupid to care is at the core of it.
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post #112 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 11:42 AM
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Have you ever seen how baggage handlers handle the luggage and then see how it all comes out on the luggage retrieval turn about??? I shutter to think what my projector would like after that. Now, if you are talking about going there, purchase one and take it to say FedEx location and send it to yourself then maybe, even with import duties/taxes/shipping/customs/insurance etc would still not cost the $10,000 difference. If it needed to be sent back to Belgium for any warranty issues then that savings may begin to dwindle significantly not to mention the hassle of international shipping.


I've quickly looked for Sony dealers in the UK selling the VW760, but none so far ship internationally, I guess they even figure the hassle isn't worth the profit.
Have you ever seen how FedEx and UPS handle packages?

Millerwill hand carried his Sony onto the plane. You would have to see how big of a carry on your airline allows, but that is how I would do it.

As for dealers in the UK selling in the US, I would imagine that Sony would be very upset with that. SURE pricing is supposed to protect their dealers in the US.

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post #113 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 11:46 AM
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Thank Kevin, that gives some opportunity to research EU Sony dealers for international shipping. But, now we know of one non US dealer that may net us a better final and far more importantly FAIR price. If Sony USA were charging more than EU because of import tariffs/taxes/shipping I wouldn't be so fired up about it, but to charge us more because they view us as all either mostly wealthy or just too stupid to care is at the core of it.
I'm curious if they would be able to let me know how they classify the projector when shipping, and if I could determine from that exactly what to expect from import duty???

Also, I inadvertently separated the UK from EU. I MEANT to distinguish the pound from the euro!

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post #114 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 12:00 PM
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Have you ever seen how baggage handlers handle the luggage and then see how it all comes out on the luggage retrieval turn about??? I shutter to think what my projector would like after that. Now, if you are talking about going there, purchase one and take it to say FedEx location and send it to yourself then maybe, even with import duties/taxes/shipping/customs/insurance etc would still not cost the $10,000 difference. If it needed to be sent back to Belgium for any warranty issues then that savings may begin to dwindle significantly not to mention the hassle of international shipping.


I've quickly looked for Sony dealers in the UK selling the VW760, but none so far ship internationally, I guess they even figure the hassle isn't worth the profit.
It's probably a violation of their dealer agreement with Sony to ship it overseas. We aren't allowed to ship projectors overseas either. However, if somebody wants to buy a projector and have it shipped to his uncle in Miami, and take it home to Brazil or where ever on a plane, that's not my business.

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post #115 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 12:16 PM
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Have you ever seen how FedEx and UPS handle packages?

Millerwill hand carried his Sony onto the plane. You would have to see how big of a carry on your airline allows, but that is how I would do it.

As for dealers in the UK selling in the US, I would imagine that Sony would be very upset with that. SURE pricing is supposed to protect their dealers in the US.

'Baggage must meet carry on size limits (approximately 22" x 14" x 9") '


Dimensions (W x H x D) (without protrusions)
  • 22 1/16 x 8 25/32 x 19 17/32 inches


2 sides will fit the limitations but you might have a hard time arguing over the extra 10 inches from 9 to 19 1/2 ! Either leave it at the mercy of the baggage handlers or cancel your flight. If you don't get too sea sick, a transatlantic ocean cruiser wouldn't have any such restrictions...6 days on the sea, maybe worth it!
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post #116 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 01:03 PM
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'Baggage must meet carry on size limits (approximately 22" x 14" x 9") '


Dimensions (W x H x D) (without protrusions)
  • 22 1/16 x 8 25/32 x 19 17/32 inches


2 sides will fit the limitations but you might have a hard time arguing over the extra 10 inches from 9 to 19 1/2 ! Either leave it at the mercy of the baggage handlers or cancel your flight. If you don't get too sea sick, a transatlantic ocean cruiser wouldn't have any such restrictions...6 days on the sea, maybe worth it!
If you care, then you can ask millerwill how he got his 1000 on the plane.

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post #117 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 03:24 PM
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'Baggage must meet carry on size limits (approximately 22" x 14" x 9") '


Dimensions (W x H x D) (without protrusions)
  • 22 1/16 x 8 25/32 x 19 17/32 inches


2 sides will fit the limitations but you might have a hard time arguing over the extra 10 inches from 9 to 19 1/2 ! Either leave it at the mercy of the baggage handlers or cancel your flight. If you don't get too sea sick, a transatlantic ocean cruiser wouldn't have any such restrictions...6 days on the sea, maybe worth it!
Buy it a seat on the plane home. At least it won't mind when you have to get up and pee.

Current home theater photos - http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/sh...hp?cat=2386514

craigpeer@earthlink.net
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post #118 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted C View Post
Even the new baby Sony 285 beat out the 4050 and Optoma on hand ...
On this front, Sony didn't even bring what I consider a real home theater projector from Optoma. They brought the $2k UHD60, which has an RGBYW colorwheel and trashed it for that, when they could have brought the $2.5k UHD65, which has an RGBRGB colorwheel. Not saying they wouldn't have beat the home theater (not living room) projector from Optoma, but pretty weak IMO to bring the $2k model to show against your $5k model instead of bringing the $2.5k model from the competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post
When one company demos a competitor its easy to do things to shine their own product.
Even if both are just out of the box, a presenter would have to be really incompetent not to find material that put their projector in the best light versus the competition. They really should be fired if they can't figure something like that out. From what I saw of the HDR clips they showed from Planet Earth II it looked to me like the projectors basically just had different EOTFs. Just like with any different gammas or EOTFs, some material is likely to work better with one while other material will work better with the other. When you have to tone map HDR to a much lower range, it is a matter of just finding the scenes that work best with your particular EOTF.

I thought it was strange how the presenter dismissed getting actual calibrations with projectors that are $25k or more. At $5k I could understand it, but would expect people spending $25k or more to get them calibrated, for the most part.

--Darin
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post #119 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 04:34 PM
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Shipping Case

Still Thinking out Loud --> $472.99 plus shipping Plus the $838.04 air fare plus some lodging or vacation

specialtycases dot com

SKU TM-M3424-12


32 in. Single / Dual Flat Screen Shipping Case SKU TM-M3424-12 $472.99
Exterior (LxWxH) 37.44 x 27.04 x 13.62 in. Interior (LxWxH) 34.5 x 24.5 x 12.75 in.
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post #120 of 202 Old 09-13-2017, 05:09 PM
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2xz

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