Barco Loki Vs Sony 5000 Vs Balder Vs Vivitek - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 40Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
audvid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 2,027
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Barco Loki Vs Sony 5000 Vs Balder Vs Vivitek

Seeking Advice.
Prelude:
My current set up:
150" wide 16X9 screen. Stewart 1.3 gain. about 18 years old. Perforated. I don't know whether this is still suitable for 4k. If it is completely unsuitable, no point in me buying a 4k projector now.
Currently, I am using a Wolf DCX1000i, set to its lowest light setting - 700 watts.. probably giving out 3000 to 3500 lumens. Chad b calibrated and gave me the number. He said, raising it to 1000 watt full power did not improve the picture. It was and is bright enough.
My usage: 99% of the time, I watch Dish Hopper 2k. So, do I even need a 4k projector now.

Reason for consideration of "upgrading":
1. The wolf is quite loud. I am sitting under it. I don't want to build a hush box - just too much hassle but I suppose it is a cheaper option.
2. Someone offered a Barco Loki at a good discount. I could get the Sony 5000 also, at the same price. I am not exactly in the league of the Loki/5000. I was thinking more like a Barco Balder (dumb name for an aging men's toy) budget - that too if I can get a good discount on the Balder. The best picture I have ever seen was from a Barco 1080p, 5 years ago, at a color lab private theatre. I don't know anything about color gamut nor do I know much about the Rec 20/20 etc.. But I do know that the Barco had the most amazing picture - Ever - No movie theatre with 4k had anything close (actually my Wolf is better than most Cineplexes!).
3. I would not by the new Sony 880 because of it having only 2000 lumens and not the same lens as the 1100 (bad idea). I got offered a Sony 880 for $15k from the UK, including shipping and I declined, because of two preceding reasons.

Now the questions:
a. Should I wait for the Vivitek? Was it $20k or $15k list? It was 8000 lumens. It is a much cheaper option.
b. Considering I don't need high lumens, do I even need a Loki, as opposed to Balder? I have not watched enough Single chip to know much about rainbow.. I doubt i would see rainbows.
c. Between Loki and Sony 5000, which is better? I like the picture clarity and smoothness of a sony. Fondly, I recall the amazing picture of the Barco.
d. Do laser projectors have such superior contrast that they would much superior to my wolf, which does not have amazing contrast? Chad B thought the contrast was acceptable, when he calibrated it. Would I see a night and day difference?
e. A forum member told me that his wife could barely tell the difference between his 1100 and 5000 and he himself could not see great improvement with the 5000, except for the added brightness, which of course, makes it superior.. but not worth the multiple of the price..

Thank you in advance for your comments/suggestions. I would prefer to keep the JVC X1 out of this discussion please.
audvid is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 11:41 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I had the barco Orion cinemascope and the picture is amazing and my eyes are looking to the Balder for near future upgrade

For my view I am a barco fan and I believe in there product

I think the Balder will fit ur screen will


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
audvid likes this.
A7mad78 is offline  
post #3 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
audvid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 2,027
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by A7mad78 View Post
For my view I am a barco fan and I believe in there product
What do you have currently?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A7mad78 View Post
For my view I am a barco fan
How do you compared to the Sony 5000? I am a fan of Sony's SXRD picture. I like my 3 chip dlp equally well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A7mad78 View Post
I think the Balder will fit ur screen will
I agree..
audvid is offline  
 
post #4 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 12:20 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 14
I have the Orion cinemascope


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A7mad78 is offline  
post #5 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 12:52 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,916
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked: 510
If you would like to see a 5000 let me know.


Art
audvid likes this.

...
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #6 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
audvid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 2,027
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post
If you would like to see a 5000 let me know.
Art
Thanks Art. I appreciate your offer very much. You are within driving distance. Only 5 hours. How ever, I am more in the league of Barco Balder or less and not the 5000 (unless used priced) - not in your league. . So, I don't want to waste your time. I do appreciate your offer though!

I remember reading your posts, since the time you had, I believe, stack of G90s? You are one of the experts here,
Have you seen any of the Barcos? How would you compare them to the 5000?
audvid is offline  
post #7 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
audvid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 2,027
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by A7mad78 View Post
I have the Orion cinemascope
Have you compared it to the sony 1100 or 5000? Your thoughts? Was I correct about the uniquely bright and beautiful colors on the Barcos?
audvid is offline  
post #8 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 02:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
ceenhad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glasgow UK
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 86
If budget is tight then don't forget the brand new Barco Medea. I don't know if people actually realise that this little beauty was launched at CEDIA.

Same electronics platform as Loki/Balder but smaller chip resulting in a unit at less than 50% the cost of a Loki. Balder and Loki are better but it would be smart to compare Medea if the Balder sticker is still making you think.

Neil Davidson - DT Screens
ceenhad is offline  
post #9 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
audvid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 2,027
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post
If budget is tight then don't forget the brand new Barco Medea. I don't know if people actually realise that this little beauty was launched at CEDIA.

Same electronics platform as Loki/Balder but smaller chip resulting in a unit at less than 50% the cost of a Loki. Balder and Loki are better but it would be smart to compare Medea if the Balder sticker is still making you think.
I just spoke with a fellow forum member and he explained this and also that the loki and balder are almost the same, except that the Loki has dual laser and higher light output. I am considering the Balder with the .9" chip, Vs the Medea with the .65" chip. Media is probably a great value at $25k list. I don't need dual laser of Loki.
I just posted my Wolf for sale and if I sell it, I would probably go with the Balder.. Sight unseen, I am guessing that I would like the Barco better than the Sony.. Actually, I can get a great deal on the Sony 5000 for about $10,000 increase from the Balder but I don't think it would be worth it.

Last edited by audvid; 09-21-2017 at 02:54 PM.
audvid is offline  
post #10 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 03:25 PM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Art Sonneborn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Battle Creek,MI USA
Posts: 22,916
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked: 510
Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Thanks Art. I appreciate your offer very much. You are within driving distance. Only 5 hours. How ever, I am more in the league of Barco Balder or less and not the 5000 (unless used priced) - not in your league. . So, I don't want to waste your time. I do appreciate your offer though!

I remember reading your posts, since the time you had, I believe, stack of G90s? You are one of the experts here,
Have you seen any of the Barcos? How would you compare them to the 5000?

Only compared to the Barco Thor at the end of June.


Art

...
Art Sonneborn is offline  
post #11 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 04:32 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 14,213
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3454 Post(s)
Liked: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post
If budget is tight then don't forget the brand new Barco Medea. I don't know if people actually realise that this little beauty was launched at CEDIA.

Same electronics platform as Loki/Balder but smaller chip resulting in a unit at less than 50% the cost of a Loki. Balder and Loki are better but it would be smart to compare Medea if the Balder sticker is still making you think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Medea is probably a great value at $25k list.
You guys must think Barco are wizards if they can take a low grade DLP chip found in $2k faux-K projectors, put a laser engine behind it, and get performance that even comes close to justifying a $25k price tag. Pretty much no one in the $3k+ forum believes the performance of the $5-10k laser units with the same chip will be competitive, and Barco's going to try it at $25k.

Last edited by Stereodude; 09-21-2017 at 04:35 PM.
Stereodude is offline  
post #12 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 04:36 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
Have you compared it to the sony 1100 or 5000? Your thoughts? Was I correct about the uniquely bright and beautiful colors on the Barcos?


I don’t compare with the sony but i compared with runco’s projector

And the color yes i agree it’s beautiful




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A7mad78 is offline  
post #13 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 04:37 PM
Advanced Member
 
ceenhad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glasgow UK
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 86
If it was the same chip then they would definitely be wizards. It isn't and they aren't.
audvid likes this.

Neil Davidson - DT Screens
ceenhad is offline  
post #14 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 04:44 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 14,213
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3454 Post(s)
Liked: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post
If it was the same chip then they would definitely be wizards. It isn't and they aren't.
Of course it's the same chip. TI makes exactly one .66" XPR DLP. It's low grade and so far all of the projectors with it in them have all the performance you'd expect from a $1k DLP, except resolution. Slapping 5500 lumens of laser behind it isn't going to magically make it awesome.
Stereodude is offline  
post #15 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 05:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
ceenhad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Glasgow UK
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 101 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Medea uses a .64" chip...
audvid likes this.

Neil Davidson - DT Screens
ceenhad is offline  
post #16 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 05:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,420
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked: 255
^^^

I think she has a new movie coming out Halloween.
zpatter1 likes this.

Mike Miles
mmiles is offline  
post #17 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 05:23 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ivanpino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Of course it's the same chip. TI makes exactly one .66" XPR DLP. It's low grade and so far all of the projectors with it in them have all the performance you'd expect from a $1k DLP, except resolution. Slapping 5500 lumens of laser behind it isn't going to magically make it awesome.
Maybe this explains why the Loki PJ at Cedia in the Alcons room looked horrific.
ivanpino is online now  
post #18 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 06:25 PM
Senior Member
 
12GAGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 48
To be honest, if you are mostly watching 2k content, I am not sure you would really get a lot of bang for the buck with a 4k unit. I am sure any of these would perform great though. Barco definitely knows what they are doing on the projection front and I can vouch for the lens used on these units. The lens is excellent rated at 66 lp/mm.
audvid likes this.
12GAGE is offline  
post #19 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
audvid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 2,027
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Of course it's the same chip. TI makes exactly one .66" XPR DLP.
You are making pretty authoritative statement on this. Are you absolutely sure? I have no first hand knowledge on this but I was informed by a Barco dealer that the Barco medea uses a smaller .6x" chip and that the balder and loki use a .9" chip and in fact, the loki offers a native cinemascope chip made by TI for barco (and others?). He was offering me the 16:9 Loki at a great price, because Barco accidentally sent him the 16:9 chip Loki, instead of the cinemascope chip Loki. I am not an expert on the TI chips, as you seem to claim to be but I would encourage you to double check. I did speak to the Barco dealer, just this afternoon, to discuss the potential Loki deal and he was very clear about the two different sized chips.. three actually.. the two versions in .9" - I am not 100% sure of this but that's what I thought I heard him say - I try not to be so definitive when I am not 100% sure and have not researched sufficiently.
audvid is offline  
post #20 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
audvid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: WI
Posts: 2,027
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12GAGE View Post
To be honest, if you are mostly watching 2k content, I am not sure you would really get a lot of bang for the buck with a 4k unit. I am sure any of these would perform great though. Barco definitely knows what they are doing on the projection front and I can vouch for the lens used on these units. The lens is excellent rated at 66 lp/mm.
Good point. The Wolf is quite good and but it is loud.. I am being lazy about the Hush box... In addition, I am wondering if Laser based projectors would have better contrast than lamp based..
audvid is offline  
post #21 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 06:53 PM
Member
 
bartl007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 26
I think it's worth noting that the TI XPR 4k chip is not to be confused with the “faux-k” wobulation used by Epson and JVC on their lcos models. They work in different ways with different results.

For anyone who has seen these projectors in person, you'd be hard pressed to differentiate a true 4k chip from the TI XPR chip.

https://youtu.be/IHC9JWMFccQ

To the OP: may be worth looking at the digital projection highlite laser 4k-uhd at ~$45k although that may be more lumens than you need. and the e vision laser 4k-uhd at half the price of the above has 7500 lumens and I thought looked equally as good in a terrible high ambient light environment next to a Loki in the Stewart booth at cedia.

Here's the loki
https://youtu.be/tzPFFibmdNI

Here's the DP e vision laser 4k-uhd
https://youtu.be/ZBvF9b3J3-M

Same throw distance, different screen and unfortunately your evaluation of these projectors is about as good over YouTube as it is in person at the cedia show given the conditions

Barco loki on the left, dp e vision 4k-uhd on the right
https://youtu.be/zNtUsQB8RvU

Showcasing different screens again. Same throw distance

Here's the viviteck on a giant 172” diagonal high gain ALR screen in the background
https://youtu.be/Lm_z9pto0oA

Viviteck on the right (second one he talks about), some high lumens Epson model on the left

https://youtu.be/k3DempNmTgc

Last edited by bartl007; 09-21-2017 at 06:57 PM.
bartl007 is online now  
post #22 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 07:51 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 14,213
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3454 Post(s)
Liked: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by audvid View Post
You are making pretty authoritative statement on this. Are you absolutely sure? I have no first hand knowledge on this but I was informed by a Barco dealer that the Barco medea uses a smaller .6x" chip and that the balder and loki use a .9" chip and in fact, the loki offers a native cinemascope chip made by TI for barco (and others?). He was offering me the 16:9 Loki at a great price, because Barco accidentally sent him the 16:9 chip Loki, instead of the cinemascope chip Loki. I am not an expert on the TI chips, as you seem to claim to be but I would encourage you to double check. I did speak to the Barco dealer, just this afternoon, to discuss the potential Loki deal and he was very clear about the two different sized chips.. three actually.. the two versions in .9" - I am not 100% sure of this but that's what I thought I heard him say - I try not to be so definitive when I am not 100% sure and have not researched sufficiently.
The Loki has a .9" chip (not native 4K). If the Medea has a .6x" chip it's the same one that's in the low end faux-k DLPs that you can buy for $2k. TI isn't making a special .6x" for the 1000 projectors Barco is going to sell each year. If a high end .6x" XPR chip existed others would be using it.
Stereodude is offline  
post #23 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 08:03 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 14,213
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3454 Post(s)
Liked: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartl007 View Post
I think it's worth noting that the TI XPR 4k chip is not to be confused with the “faux-k” wobulation used by Epson and JVC on their lcos models. They work in different ways with different results.
Please spread your misinformation elsewhere. It works exactly like the Epson and JVC models. It overlays two lower resolution temporal frames with a 1/2 pixel diagonal offset between them to achieve a higher effective perceived spatial resolution and roll the MTF off more smoothly above the Nyquist limit instead of having an abrupt cliff. The only difference is that TI DMD is WQXGA and the JVC / Epson panels are FHD. Both are faux-k. Neither the TI or JVC/Epson will display UHD test patterns with single pixel detail correctly. The TI solution is in some respect worse in that it can't be turned off, nor can it display 1080p test patterns with 1:1 pixel mapping.

Quote:
For anyone who has seen these projectors in person, you'd be hard pressed to differentiate a true 4k chip from the TI XPR chip.
Until you try to display a UHD or 1080p test pattern with single pixel detail. Then the difference will become immediately obvious.

BTW, Did you make the same argument for wobulated DLP chips compared to a true 1080p chip 10+ years ago or were you pushing for a true 1080p chip?

Frankly, I feel sorry for all the high end projector makers. There stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have no suitable solution for the mid to high end market ($3k to whatever commercial DCI models cost). They're stuck buying DMDs from TI, since it seems JVC & Sony won't sell them their LCOS solutions and TI has no interest in addressing the needs of their market. TI is making low end solutions for the sub $3k market and the high end boutique makers are stuck trying to put a lot of lipstick and makeup on that pig.

Last edited by Stereodude; 09-21-2017 at 08:10 PM.
Stereodude is offline  
post #24 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 08:48 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mmiles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,420
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked: 255
I thought the Epson and JVC was firmware which was different from wobblers.

Mike Miles
mmiles is offline  
post #25 of 80 Old 09-21-2017, 09:32 PM
Member
 
bartl007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Please spread your misinformation elsewhere. It works exactly like the Epson and JVC models. It overlays two lower resolution temporal frames with a 1/2 pixel diagonal offset between them to achieve a higher effective perceived spatial resolution and roll the MTF off more smoothly above the Nyquist limit instead of having an abrupt cliff. The only difference is that TI DMD is WQXGA and the JVC / Epson panels are FHD. Both are faux-k. Neither the TI or JVC/Epson will display UHD test patterns with single pixel detail correctly. The TI solution is in some respect worse in that it can't be turned off, nor can it display 1080p test patterns with 1:1 pixel mapping.


Until you try to display a UHD or 1080p test pattern with single pixel detail. Then the difference will become immediately obvious.

BTW, Did you make the same argument for wobulated DLP chips compared to a true 1080p chip 10+ years ago or were you pushing for a true 1080p chip?

Frankly, I feel sorry for all the high end projector makers. There stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have no suitable solution for the mid to high end market ($3k to whatever commercial DCI models cost). They're stuck buying DMDs from TI, since it seems JVC & Sony won't sell them their LCOS solutions and TI has no interest in addressing the needs of their market. TI is making low end solutions for the sub $3k market and the high end boutique makers are stuck trying to put a lot of lipstick and makeup on that pig.
Thank you for clarifying my purposefully ambiguous comments with specifics.

More info on the xpr chip and controller here
http://www.ti.com/product/dlp660te

http://www.ti.com/product/dlpc4422

To my eye, I can't perceive a difference between the projectors I saw at cedia with a true 4k chip and the TI XPR chip. Anyone thinking about spending $20k+ on a projector owes it to themselves to view both versions of 4k and decide which one they prefer and how much they are willing to pay for it.
bartl007 is online now  
post #26 of 80 Old 09-22-2017, 12:47 AM
Senior Member
 
Lygren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 225
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 201
I have been a hard core Barco fan since my 708 CRT 20 or so years ago (and my 800, 808, 808s, 1200, 1208, 1208s and finally 1209); those guys really knows their stuff. However, the LOKI and BALDER and all the 1-chipper DLPs simply have too weak of a black level performance to be able to compete in the league they are trying at in my opinion. Feature-wise they are great though, and the wobbling is really not a big issue, seems to be able to resolve 4K at the screen quite fine so no problem there in my opinion. Compared to the Sony VPL-VW5000, these Barcos simply would not cut it in my opinion. Sure; they have the light output, and as such they are very very good. Also, functionality is great - in the Alcons / Barco / ScreenAcoustics (DreamScreen) booth at CEDIA we used the warp feature quite a lot - digitally moving the image from the middle to the bottom of the screen using an iPad, and combined with a 1-way masking from 16:9->2.40:1 it did work very well.

One neat feature is also that they are able to almost provide full coverage of P3 (according to the Barco tech at least, I have only seen the charts on his computer, I have not measured the unit myself) without a filter. I guess the color wheel is their "filter" though, and also the reason why they can do P3 @ blue laser phosphor, but talking of color wheels - I have to say I did see some RBE, but I´m also overly sensitive to this... Others may not see this phenomena at all.

So, in short, I would say the LOKI / BALDER could have had a lot of potential had it not been for that way too low native contrast. There is simply no way around it! Even at medium dark scenes such as the top of Hollywood hills dancing scene at LaLaLand, the dynamics fell apart. A projector like this needs to be able to "eat" all types of content and although I would not expect "OLED" blacks, it has to be better than this to be able to provide images that are in the direction of what the movie director intended for the most - and I KNOW LaLaLand is not supposed to look that flat having seen that one at my JVC DLA-Z1 back home... Speaking of DLA-Z1, it has a native contrast of about 10-15.000:1 depending on zoom @ 3000 lumens, while the Sony has similar contrast levels @ 5000 lumens. I believe the Sony is on the verge of struggling with some very dark material @ full laser, while the Z1 is within what I would describe as "acceptable" for most content in terms of black level tracking - at least when and if laser modulation is activated. The 1000:1 or so from the XPR DLP chips simply do not cut it in such regards. Too bad, as Barco has build a very nice platform surrounding this chip - I do feel a bit sorry for them actually and do hope the DLP guys can come up with some improvements in such regards quite rapidly to save their partners the embarrassment...
CINERAMAX and audvid like this.

Proudly Representing DreamScreen.no // ScreenAcoustics.com // AT screens & more!
Founder AVforum.no // Norway´s leading AV community since 2002

Last edited by Lygren; 09-22-2017 at 12:51 AM.
Lygren is offline  
post #27 of 80 Old 09-22-2017, 03:43 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 14,213
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3454 Post(s)
Liked: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lygren View Post
I do feel a bit sorry for them actually and do hope the DLP guys can come up with some improvements in such regards quite rapidly to save their partners the embarrassment...
According to those who met with them at Cedia TI isn't interested and thinks they're competitive as is. They're instead working on smaller XPR chips which will have even worse contrast performance and a way to overlay 4 images for perceived resolution increase instead of just two.
Stereodude is offline  
post #28 of 80 Old 09-22-2017, 06:46 AM
AVS Forum Club Gold
 
Mr. Integration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Coral Springs Florida
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked: 204
I am certainly not a projection expert by any means but my understanding is that the chips are the least significant factor. Optics and processing are the X Factors

I know it sounds great and looks great.....but can we communicate with it? If not it is useless:)
Mr. Integration is offline  
post #29 of 80 Old 09-22-2017, 06:56 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 14,213
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3454 Post(s)
Liked: 2527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Integration View Post
I am certainly not a projection expert by any means but my understanding is that the chips are the least significant factor. Optics and processing are the X Factors
I certainly wouldn't agree with that. If the chip only has ~1000:1 contrast no amount optics and fancy processing are going to make it competitive in the grand scheme of things when the competition is at least 10x better in native contrast. The only thing these expensive DLP's have going for them vs. the competition is they're brighter.

This is why video walls are going to put an end to high end projection (for people who care about performance) in fairly short order.
audvid likes this.
Stereodude is offline  
post #30 of 80 Old 09-22-2017, 07:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
donaldk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,937
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 499 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceenhad View Post
If budget is tight then don't forget the brand new Barco Medea. I don't know if people actually realise that this little beauty was launched at CEDIA.

Same electronics platform as Loki/Balder but smaller chip resulting in a unit at less than 50% the cost of a Loki. Balder and Loki are better but it would be smart to compare Medea if the Balder sticker is still making you think.
Still with the Barco imageprocessing for the pre-shift image upscaling, or a full on TI XPR solution?

The 0.67" is not know for its contrast performance, so Audvid audition the projector first as it sounds that is important to you.
audvid likes this.
donaldk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Ultra Hi-End HT Gear ($20,000+)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off