Kaleidescape- how will it handle Bluray and HD DVD with hdcp? - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 835 Old 06-03-2008, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Any rumblings / updates on this front? Any dealers have any new knowledge on K doing bluray?
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post #812 of 835 Old 06-13-2008, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Any rumblings / updates on this front? Any dealers have any new knowledge on K doing bluray?

Ask again in 2009... They didn't promise anything until then and they are not ones to say much in advance.
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post #813 of 835 Old 05-21-2010, 08:50 AM
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M class released. Attended a dealer conference this week and only slightly more expensive players.

Need to have the actual Blu-ray to playback, they check for physicality, and don't actually read the disk.
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post #814 of 835 Old 05-21-2010, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks man.
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post #815 of 835 Old 06-16-2010, 03:45 PM
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I asked about the d-box issue.


...According to him, the Kaleidescape movie players only output movie audio over coax and optical in "Player Decode" audio mode - in "Bitstream Passthrough" those outputs are silent. So for D-Box support, the players must be in "Player Decode" mode. This might be inconvenient for customers who want D-Box for DVDs and also want to pass through the high bit rate Blu-ray audio codecs over HDMI, since they'll need to switch between "Player Decode" when they want D-Box and "Bitstream Passthrough" when they want lossless Blu-ray audio.


NOW WHAT?
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post #816 of 835 Old 06-16-2010, 07:43 PM
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OK the M500 has now been out for a few weeks but I have, to date, seen no comments on its performance and if it meets expectations.
Reams and reams have been written about the legalities of the product but nothing on its quality, operational capabilities and how it compares with stand alone players etc of which I am more interested than the legalities.

I have now used the player for 2 days and my first comments are:

1.Build quality disappointing - Transport tray light weight plastic and very flimsy I have seen better ones on $100 DVD players.
The color labels on the back are already rippled and coming off.
All BNC connectors have been replaced with standard RCA connectors. This is very annoying when one is replacing the previous rack mount version player, which had BNC, as you either need to replace the cables, when wire wrapped is a real pain, or use a conversion connector, which I hate to have to do. WHY DOWN GRADE THE CONNECTOR ON A $4K PLAYER??

2. Picture quality on the first few disc I tried looked acceptable, on my Kuro, but need to compare in my cinema against the Pioneer BDP 09.

3. BIGGEST ISSUE OF ALL IS HAVING TO PUT THE DISC YOU WANT TO WATCH BACK IN THE TRAY. THIS IS ESPECIALLY INCONVENIENT WHEN YOU HAVE DIFFERENT REGION DISCS OR JUST WANT TO REVIEW THE ODD CHAPTER. THIS MAY BE A SHOW STOPPER FOR ME AS I HAVE MULTI LOCATIONS WHICH MEANS UNLESS I HAVE TWO PLAYERS IN EACH LOCATION I HAVE TO RESTRICT EACH LOCATION TO A SPECIFIC REGION.

I would be interested in other users first thoughts on the product.

D.
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post #817 of 835 Old 06-16-2010, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdole369 View Post

M class released. Attended a dealer conference this week and only slightly more expensive players.

Need to have the actual Blu-ray to playback, they check for physicality, and don't actually read the disk.


Does it have to be exactly the same disc you ripped, or just the same version of the title (by catalog number). IOW is individual disc id now in effect? No? Right?

So that I can rip the same disc for a client with 4 homes and send them the discs loaded on the storage unit when it becomes available.
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post #818 of 835 Old 06-16-2010, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by multimedes; View Post

3. BIGGEST ISSUE OF ALL IS HAVING TO PUT THE DISC YOU WANT TO WATCH BACK IN THE TRAY. THIS IS ESPECIALLY INCONVENIENT WHEN YOU HAVE DIFFERENT REGION DISCS OR JUST WANT TO REVIEW THE ODD CHAPTER. THIS MAY BE A SHOW STOPPER FOR ME AS I HAVE MULTI LOCATIONS WHICH MEANS UNLESS I HAVE TWO PLAYERS IN EACH LOCATION I HAVE TO RESTRICT EACH LOCATION TO A SPECIFIC REGION.

I would be interested in other users first thoughts on the product.

D.

Are you SURE you read the thread, or at least read about this issue on K's website?

But good point about the M500s being out for a little while now. Still no legal action by AACS-LA... Maybe K knows what they are doing afterall!
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post #819 of 835 Old 06-17-2010, 04:18 AM
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I have been using the same disc, I did look at the option of ripping and using the copy, the only issue is if you require a 50GB disc the cost is not that different from getting another original.
We need to get the player multi region. I am guessing that it is a Toshiba player, as before, because it comes with a remote which use's the Toshibia IR set.
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post #820 of 835 Old 06-17-2010, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iansilv View Post

Are you SURE you read the thread, or at least read about this issue on K's website?

But good point about the M500s being out for a little while now. Still no legal action by AACS-LA... Maybe K knows what they are doing afterall!

Yes I read the thread but there is a big difference in reading about it then getting the hands on experience and trying it yourself, my locations are about 100yds apart.. It really is a pain!!

D
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post #821 of 835 Old 06-17-2010, 05:15 PM
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Yes, that can be a pain on the disc in tray requirement, but the alternative is no bluray serving at all and it really isn't less convenient than using a disc based bluray right now. Once the vault becomes available, it will be back to the same old convenience we are used to with a couple exceptions - no simultaneous streams of the same title but that won't affect most users and the films won't start as quickly as a DVD but that is the nature of BluRay.

Lots of people complained about BNC connectors. They change to RCA and others complain. Lose-lose situation there I guess.

I have noticed a substantial decrease in the load times for DVD with the new M500 player - perhaps twice as fast. I will run an analysis once I finish loading my latest infusion of films.

The region encoding is more of a pain now but that is because BluRay handles it differently than DVD. I am fortunate to have my whole collection in one region. I think region encoding is just a bad idea but I don't call the shots at the MPAA.
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post #822 of 835 Old 06-17-2010, 05:38 PM
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I don't call the shots at the MPAA.

Why not? I thought they were all nuts.

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post #823 of 835 Old 06-17-2010, 11:59 PM
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post #824 of 835 Old 06-19-2010, 02:50 PM
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If they are 250 I will need an extra 1u server for the overflow (total 750 Blu-ray discs).
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post #825 of 835 Old 07-26-2010, 03:15 PM
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While not the main part of this article that mainly discusses jailbreaking of phones...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_wguy/2..._wguy_tc3236_2

The relevant excerpts I took from this are:

Apple fought hard against the legalization, arguing that jailbreaking was a form of copyright violation. The FCC disagreed, saying that jailbreaking merely enhanced the inter-operability of the phone, and was thus legitimate under fair-use rules.

In addition to the jailbreaking exemption, the FCC announced a few other rules that have less sweeping applicability but are still significant:

• Professors, students and documentary filmmakers are now allowed, for “noncommercial” purposes, to break the copy protection measures on DVDs to be used in classroom or other not-for-profit environments. This doesn’t quite go so far as to grant you and me the right to copy a DVD so we can watch it in two rooms of the house, but it’s now only one step away.


This seems that the DMCA has some limitations. Also, enhancing the fair use of the cell phone may pave the way for pushing that ruling towards DVD/BluRay in the future.
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post #826 of 835 Old 07-26-2010, 04:50 PM
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Interesting development on the DMCA:

Court Backs Dismissal of Digital Copyright Claim

Full ruling: http://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinions...21-CV0.wpd.pdf

Quote:


"Merely bypassing a technological protection that restricts a user from viewing or using a work is insufficient to trigger the (Digital Millennium Copyright Act's) anti-circumvention provision," Judge Garza wrote for the New Orleans-based court.

Quote:


But the 5th Circuit said MGE "advances too broad a definition of 'access.'"

"Without showing a link between 'access' and 'protection' of the copyrighted work, the DMCA's anti-circumvention provision does not apply," Judge Emilio Garza wrote.

"The owner's technological measure must protect the copyrighted material against an infringement of a right that the Copyright Act protects, not from mere use or viewing."

Thoughts?
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post #827 of 835 Old 07-26-2010, 05:19 PM
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I would think that if it only applies to infringing uses of a copyright, that would shut down the case against media servers unless the courts would view that a person viewing their own DVD off of a hard drive server violated copyright, which is a huge difference from their current stance that just moving the content from the disc to the hard drive is itself a violation.
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post #828 of 835 Old 07-26-2010, 06:02 PM
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Which case are you referring to, savant? The one I linked or the one SweetSpot linked? I think Sweetspot's case (the one with GE circumventing the dongles on the APC power supply software) has much less direct bearing on media servers than the FCC statement about instances where copying DVDs does not violate the DMCA.
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post #829 of 835 Old 07-28-2010, 11:38 AM
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Kaleidescape has released some information on their upcoming BluRay vault products:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

July 28, 2010

Kaleidescape is developing two disc-vault solutions to enable Blu-ray movies to be played without having to touch a disc: (1) the Modular Disc Vault based on a third-party mechanism, and (2) the Integrated Disc Vault designed and developed entirely by Kaleidescape. Either disc vault can be used to import Blu-ray Discs and verify that they are present. The Integrated Disc Vault can also be used to import CDs and DVDs. Neither vault supports playing directly from a disc. When your Blu-ray Discs are stored in a vault, playback of a Blu-ray movie from any M-Class player works just like the playback of a DVD movie; the physical disc itself is not read or even accessed upon playback because its contents are played from a copy located on a Kaleidescape server. Any number of disc vaults (of either type) can be added to a Kaleidescape System to accommodate a large collection of Blu-ray Discs. These two vaults differ in capacity, appearance, physical size, usability, and pricing. With both vaults, discs are inserted and removed through a vertical slot in the front. Both of these projects are proceeding on schedule.

Modular Disc Vault
The Modular Disc Vault is a third-party 100-disc carousel (with Kaleidescape's firmware modifications) that will be available for purchase from Kaleidescape. The Modular Disc Vault must be directly connected to an M300 Player via a USB cable. The Modular Disc Vault can be placed on a shelf in a standard equipment rack (20 inches deep). Its physical dimensions are: 14.6 in. x 17 in. x 7.3 in. (370 mm x 430 mm x 186 mm).

An M300 Player can play movies and music from a server while it controls the Modular Disc Vault. Any number of Modular Disc Vaults may be added to a Kaleidescape System, but each must be connected to its own M300 Player.

If you already have an M300 Player, you will be able to add a Modular Disc Vault for $1,500 (U.S. MSRP) and connect it via USB. If not, then you will be able to purchase an M300 Player together with a Modular Disc Vault for a total of $3,995 (U.S. MSRP). This product will be running in our booth (#2228) at CEDIA Expo in September. We plan to make it available with "beta" software in the fourth quarter of this year, and with production software in the first quarter of 2011.

Integrated Disc Vault

The Integrated Disc Vault is a new Kaleidescape component that has the capacity to hold 300 Blu-ray Discs. Like a server or a player it connects directly to your Ethernet network. Besides importing discs and verifying Blu-ray Disc presence, the Integrated Disc Vault incorporates an M-Class player that can play movies and music from a server. It is a 5-RU device that can be mounted in a 20-inch-deep rack. U.S. MSRP will be no more than $6,000. We anticipate that this product will be available in June of 2011; however, there is still some uncertainty in this date.
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post #830 of 835 Old 08-07-2010, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter View Post

no simultaneous streams of the same title

What about simultaneous streams of different titles? Will it load the disc, check its there and play it in one zone, and concurrently then load the next disc, check it there and play another title at the same time in a different room?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter View Post

Integrated Disc Vault

The Integrated Disc Vault is a new Kaleidescape component that has the capacity to hold 300 Blu-ray Discs. Like a server or a player it connects directly to your Ethernet network. Besides importing discs and verifying Blu-ray Disc presence, the Integrated Disc Vault incorporates an M-Class player that can play movies and music from a server. It is a 5-RU device that can be mounted in a 20-inch-deep rack. U.S. MSRP will be no more than $6,000. We anticipate that this product will be available in June of 2011; however, there is still some uncertainty in this date.

Didn't notice it has a player built in. So all I would need is this and a 5U/3U server and I would be good to go?

July 2011 still a while away. Maybe if things change in the courts we won't need the Vault at all? Wishful thinking
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post #831 of 835 Old 08-07-2010, 07:22 AM
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So if you want 3 players for 3 room access you need 3 vaults and 3 copies of the bluray disc one for each vault?
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post #832 of 835 Old 08-07-2010, 07:27 AM
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So if you want 3 players for 3 room access you need 3 vaults and 3 copies of the bluray disc one for each vault?

Why would you want 3 players? Don't most load the one disc into the vault and send it around the house from there??

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post #833 of 835 Old 08-07-2010, 07:30 AM
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I would think if one wanted to watch 2 different tittles in 2 different rooms then more than one player is required, or stated another way to play different movies in different zones.

from kaledescape website:

Throughout Your Home
Enjoy movies and music throughout your home by adding players. Each player operates independently so you can watch different movies in different rooms
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post #834 of 835 Old 08-07-2010, 08:06 AM
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I see. Didn't think if that as it a rare occurrence in my place. Nice option though.

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post #835 of 835 Old 08-08-2010, 02:28 PM
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Multiple streams is a common occurance at my house. My kids can't agree on what to watch or they constantly argue so I just put each one down in front of a different TV and let them pick.

Once you have a disc in one vault, you can play that title on any player in your system.
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