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post #1 of 86 Old 08-26-2006, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Background info re my system to extent you find it useful in better understanding what I have to say here:

For theater photos, go to this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=bruzonsky


STEVE BRUZONSKY'S HOME THEATER SYSTEM - AUGUST 2006!


AUDIO PROCESSING:

Theta Casablanca 3 surround processor (with 2 Xtreme DAC cards with 2 Xtreme DAC cards (accommodates 8
8 Xtreme balanced channels). Only six channels connected, five main channels plus one subwoofer, as the three subwoofers are chained for front left, front right and surround subwoofers. Tweaks: Symposium Rollerblocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave, and Bright StarLittle Rock 2 on top of four Symposium Cubes.

Theta Six Shooter multi-channel analog multi-channel preamp. Tweaks: Symposium Svelte Shelf, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave, and Bright Star Little Rock 2 on top.


VIDEO DISPLAY AND PROCESSING:

Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector, modified with USPL ECP color filtered lens (red and green), ceiling mounted, ISFed and setup initially Nov. 2000 by John Gannon, re-ISFed 2002 by Michael Hamilton, retubed by Mike Parker and re-ISFed by John Gannon in 2006. Tweaks: Modified by John Gannon to have USPL ECP color filtered lens (red and green). Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 56625' 10 guage power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#2 (used for video) set at P-1 square wave. Modified by Mike Parker in 2006 to use internal Granite Audio video cabling.

Lumagen VisionPro HDP video processor/scaler. Tweaks: Symposium Super Platform, Granite Audio proprietary toroid placed around Lumagen's power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#2 (used for video) set at P-1 square wave.

Extron Video Switcher SW 6AR MX HV hi bandwith (RGB H/V sync on BNCs, 6 in, 1 out). Tweaks: Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#2 (used for video) set at P-1 square wave, and Bright StarLittle Rock 1 (on top of Extron Switcher, which is on top of Lumagen VisionPro HDP).

Stewart Studiotech 4 Way Screenwall Electrimask (16:9, 1.3 gain, 80" wide) (3 wall switches for masking top, bottom and sides)

Sharp 15" LCD Color TV (sits under screen as on screen display monitor for Theta Casablanca 3 surround processor)


AUDIO/VIDEO SOURCES:

DirecTV HD TIVO (HR10-250) satellite and OTA receiver. Tweaks: Symposium Ultra Platform, Two prong to male IEC adapter, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord,
and uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.

Theta Compli DVD/CD/SACD/DVD-A player, with SDI and silver alloy cover. Tweaks: Symposium Rollerblocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave, , and Bright StarLittle Rock 1s.

Toshiba XA1-HD DVD player. Tweaks: Symposium Rollerblocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.,

JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR. Tweaks: Modified by Mike Parker to have BNC component outputs with high bandwith HD component video output. Modified by Don Hoglund of Granite Audio so that original hardwired 2 prong power cord cut down to a few inches with male IEC with ground pin not connected. Symposium Ultra Platform, Bybee AC Charger Filter, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.

Samsung SIR-ST165 digital/analog OTA tuner. Modified by Don Hoglund of Granite Audio so that original hardwired 2 prong power cord cut down to a few inches with male IEC with ground pin not connected. Symposium Svelte Shelf, Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord, uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.

Pioneer DVR-510H DVD-R player/recorder. Tweaks: Symposium Shelf, Granite Audio proprietary toroid placed around Pioneer's power cord, and uses PS Audio P600#1 (used for non-video front end components) set at 60 Hz sine wave.


REMOTE:

Universal MX-3000 touchscreen


POWER AMPLIFIERS:

Five Bryston 7B monoblock amplifiers (500 watts per channel into 8 ohms, 800 watts per channel into 4 ohms).
Tweaks: Modified by Joe Straceski, each amplifier with 8 Bybee large analog devices for internal AC. Symposium Rollerbocks, Symposium Ultra Platform, and Granite Audio 560 10 guage power cord.



SPEAKERS AND STANDS:

Four Aerial Acoustics 10T speakers (front and surround). Tweaks: Each 10T modified by Joe Straceski with 3 Bybee analog internal devices, a small device at midrange and at tweeter and a large device at woofer. Sound Anchor custom stands. Surround 10Ts are elevated an additional 6 inches high by having Osiris Giza Mk II stands below the Sound Anchors custom stands.

One Aerial Acoustics CC5 center speaker. Tweaks: Modified by Joe Straceski with 4 Bybee analog small internal devices, one at each driver. Sound Anchor custom stand including an extension piece to raise the mid-drivers to about listener ear level.

Three Aerial Acoustics SW12 powered subwoofers (400 watts each). Front left subwoofer chained to front right subwoofer, which in turn is chained to surround subwoofer. Tweaks: Each modified by Joe Straceski with one Bybee analog large internal device at the driver, with each having its AC modified with one analog large Bybee device. Each modified with internal speaker cables (from internal amplifier to internal binding posts for woofers) with custom Granite Audio 8 guage 1 foot speaker cables with proprietary banana plugs each end to ensure tight fit and solid connection. Each on custom Sound Anchors custom stand.


AUDIO AND VIDEO CABLES:

5 pairs 1' Granite Audio Model 573 Bi-Wire 8 guage speaker cables (from Bryston 7B amplifiers to Aerial speakers)

2.5 pairs 25', Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnects (from Theta Casablanca 3 - Six Shooter to each of five Bryston 7B amplifiers)





.5 Pair 20' Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnect (from Theta Casablanca 3 - Six Shooter to
Front left Aerial subwoofer.

1 Pair 20' Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnects (from front left Aerial subwoofer to front right
Aerial subwoofer, and then to surround Aerial subwoofer).

3 Pairs 1M Granite Audio Model 470 AES/EBU silver interconnects (from Theta Casablanca 3 to Six Shooter analog premp)

4 Pairs 1M Granite Audio Model 470 single-ended silver interconnects (from Theta Compli multi-channel RCA outputs to Six Shooter, and from Theta Compli stereo RCA outputs to Theta Casablanca 3)

3 Pairs 2M Granite Audio Model 470 single-ended silver interconnects (from Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player to Six Shooter).

2M Granite Audio Model 420 75 ohm cable/connectors, BNC to BNC, coaxial digital audio cable
(SDI from Theta Compli to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

1M Granite Audio Model 420 75 ohm cable/connectors, BNC to BNC, coaxial digital audio cable (Theta Compli
to Theta Casablanca 3)

2M Cardas Audio AES/EBU digital audio cable (Theta Compli to Theta Casablanca 3)

5M Granite Audio Model 425 75 ohm cables/connectors, RGB H/V Sync, BNC to BNC (from Lumagen VisionPro HDP to Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector)

Granite Audio Model 420 75 ohm cables/connectors, F-cables, for internal hookup of satellite and OTA receivers

Granite Audio Model 423 Component Video 75 ohm cables/connectors, 1M RCA to BNC (HD TIVO to Extron Switcher), 1M BNC to BNC Extron Switcher to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

Granite Audio Model 423 Component Video 75 ohm cables/connectors, 2M BNC to BNC (JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR to Extron Switcher),

Granite Audio Model 423 Component Video 75 ohm cables/connectors, 3M RCA to BNC (Pioneer DVR-510H DVD-R to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

2M 1394 cable (from JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR to Samsung SIR-T165)

2M DVI Gear HDMI to DVI Super High Resolution cable (24 guage) (HD TIVO to Lumagen VisionPro HDP)

Wireworld Supernova 3+ Glass Toslink Cables, 3 1M and 1 2M (from HD TIVO, JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR
Toshiba XA1 HD DVD and Pioneer DVR-510H DVD-R to Theta Casablanca 3)

POWER ACCESSORIES:

PS Audio P600 Power Plant #1, with Multiwave 2. Tweaks: Modified with 10 Bybee analog large internal devices (used for non-video front end components except amplifiers) set at 60 Hz sine wave, with API Power Enhancer plugged into same circuit, with Bright Star Little Rock 2 on top.

PS Audio P600 Power Plant #2, with Multiwave 2. Tweaks: Modified with 6 Bybee analog large internal devices (used for video) set at P-1 square wave, with Bright Star Little Rock 3 on top.

17 Granite Audio 560 power cords, 10 guage (with toroid high frequency noise filtering at each end, effectively non-current limiting) - two 9', two 6', and thirteen 5'.

Granite Audio 566 power cord, 10 guage, 25' (from PS Audio P600 to Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector)

Audioprism Noise Sniffer, and Audioprism Quietline AC Filters, three sets of 8 each (in home theater room, only placed one per each unused of the 19 dedicated 20 amp circuits; otherwise placed around home)

PS Audio Power Ports for AC outlets and both PS Audio P600 outlets.

PS Audio Juice Bar


EQUIPMENT RACKS:

Michael Green Deep Clampracks, one 54" high and three 48" high

Five Michael Green Deluxe Justarack Tuning Boards


ROOM ACOUSTICAL TREATMENTS:

Michael Green Acoustical Crown Molding 5" (black) placed on bevel at wall/ceiling seams

Michael Green Pressure Zone Controllers (black):
Four Mini Corner Controllers, placed at ceiling corners over ACM joints; Eight Wall Mount Controllers 36", one at each of four wall corners, two on each side wall; and Six Mini Echo Controllers, one centered above the screen at the wall/ceiling seam, one centered above the back cabinets' wetbar at ball wall/ceiling seam, and one placed on the ceiling above each Aerial Acoustics 10T speaker


OTHER ACCESSORIES/TWEAKS:

Bybee large and small internal analog devices to modify components, by Joe Straceski used with the following components: Aerial 10Ts and CC5 drivers, Aerial SW12 subwoofer drivers and amplifier AC, Bryston 7B amplifiers AC power, PS Audio P600s AC input and outputs.

8 Bybee AC Charger Filters, each modified by Don Hoglund of Granite Audio with a Wattgate male, used with the following components: Theta Casablanca 3, Theta Six Shooter, Theta Compli, HD TIVO, Dwin HD-700 CRT Projector, Extron Switcher, HD TIVO, JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR.

Symposium Ultra Platforms used with the following components: 5 Bryston 7B amplifiers, Theta Casablanca 3, HD TIVO, JVC HMDH4000U D-VHS VCR, Theta Compli and 2 PS Audio P600s

Symposium Super Platform used with Lumagen VisionPro HDP

Symposium Shelf used with Pioneer DVR-510H DVD player

Symposium Svelte Shelf used with Theta Six Shooter and Samsung SIR-ST165.

Symposium Rollerblocks with Upgrade Tungsten Carbide Balls used with the following components: 5 Bryston 7B amplifiers, Theta Casablanca 2, and Theta Compli.

5 Bright Star Little Rock 1s used with the following components: Extron Switcher and Theta Compli (2).

2 Bright Star Little Rock 2s used with the following components: Theta Casablanca 3 and PS Audio P600 #1.

1 Bright Star Little Rock 3 used with PS Audio P600 #2.

Cardas Caps for components' unused RCA inputs/outputs)

Michael Green brass Audiopoints under each Aerial Acoustics 10T and CC5 speaker..

2 sets (eight each) Michael Green Cable Grounds.

Channel Master Rotor for outdoor Radio Shack Analog/Digital OTA Antenna

Notes on Setup & Special Dedicated Room Construction and Features
Notes on Setup:

The four Aerial Acoustics 10T speakers are setup at about 2, 4, 8 and 10 o'clock on circle, tilted at the center front row "sweet spot" (two rows of leather recliners each row) listening/viewing position at about 45 degrees, with front left 10T facing surround right 10T, and front right 10T facing surround left 10T. The Aerial Acoustics CC5 center speaker is positioned with its back about two feet from the wall and its front about two feet back from the front of the front left and right Aerial 10Ts relative to the "sweet spot". Each 10T is roughly about 130 inches from its neighboring 10T from side to side and about 140 inches from front to back.

The outer edge of the front left and right, and surround left and right, Aerial Acoustics 10Ts are each about two feet from the closest side wall. Normally, this is too close for excellent imaging and sonics; however, thanks to the Michael Green Pressure Zone Controllers and acoustical treatments, this is preferred positioning for best home theater sonics. The Pressure Zone Controllers at the front of the room are adjusted for a solid phantom center image with only stereo playing for the front left and right 10Ts; and towards and at the back, the controllers are adjusted for more ambience.

The front right and left Aerial SW12 subwoofers are each placed directly inside the front left and right Aerial 10T speakers. This places their woofers at the one quarter width and one quarter length room dimensions. The surround Aerial SW12 subwoofer is placed to the immediate left but just in back (looking towards the Stewart screen in back of the CC5) of the Aerial CC5 center speaker. Subwoofers are set to equal the volume of the main speakers.

The four Aerial 10T and CC5 speakers are set to full range with the Theta Casablanca 2, using the Butterworth crossover to provide a 40 Hz 12 dB low pass to the front left and right, and surround, Aerial subwoofers. No crossover or signal to the subwoofer is used for the Aerial CC5 center speaker. This setup is maintained for both music and movies.

The ceiling is at 11'11". The Aerial CC5 Sound Anchors stand has a custom center or middle piece which is about ten inches higher than normal, allowing me to raise the center speaker as I have room under my screen so the center speaker, tilted just a bit, has its mid-drivers equal the center of my ear lobes as I sit in my trust front center chair. The top of the center speaker is 37" off the carpeted floor, with its mid-drivers about 33" off the floor. My mid-ear lobe level is about 39 - 40" off the floor as I recline a bit in my leather recliner.

The front left and right Aerial 10Ts, on Sound Anchor stands, have their mid midrange-tweeter at 42.5" off the floor; I have an additional Osiris Giza Mk2 stand under the Sound Anchors stand under the surround left and right Aerial 10Ts, so they have their mid midrange-tweeter at 48.5" off the floor.

Note the Stewart 4 Way Electrimask screen has its very bottom 36" off the floor (the Velux part) and the actual 16:9 screen starts 45" off the floor.


SPECIAL DEDICATED ROOM CONSTRUCTION AND FEATURES:

Home Theater room dimensions are 18 feet 3 inches wide, 25 feet long and 11 feet 11 inches high. This is #3 on the Louden scale of best acoustical audio dimensions, to lessen the room node interaction at low bass frequencies as much as possible.

The room was added East of the Master Bedroom. A hallway and bathroom are between the Master Bedroom and the Home Theater room. The theater's cement foundation has seams between the theater and the hallway/bathroom, and also between the hallway/bathroom and the Master Bedroom, for vibration control.

Double masonite doors with wood and rubber seals around them lead from the Master Bedroom to the hallway, and from the hallway to the theater. Double 2 inch X 4 inch stud walls, with 1 inch air space inbetween, are between the Master Bedroom and the hallway/bathroom.

At the rear of the home theater, flat black cabinets with a wetbar in the middle are 20 inches deep with the 2 inch X 6 inch stud wall in back of the cabinets.

There is blown in cellulose insulation for all of the walls, which seeps into and perfectly seals all nooks and crannies, except the ceiling insulation is BAT (much of the ceiling is taken up by large oversized air conditioning ducts and there was insuficient room up there to squeeze in a blow in cellulose). USG Acoustical Sealant was used on all stud surfaces to minimize vibrations. Sound board, followed by gyp board, was installed on all of the walls and ceiling of the entire addition.

The air conditioning return is at the rear of the theater underneath the cabinets and is roughly about more than 10 feet long and 4 inches in height. The air conditioning is whisper quiet thanks to the oversized gentle turns insulated air ducts. The air return is located in the attic above thebathroom, with a separate air conditioning unit outside the room, and with the air conditioning unit on a concrete slab separated from the addition's concrete slab, so that the air conditioning is self-contained and totally separate from the rest of our home.

The local code requires at minimum the Home Theater room's windows, two windows four feet wide X 5 feet high. Each window is on the north and south side walls, with each window ending 7 feet from the front video screen wall, just behind the very front of the front left and right Aerial Acoustics 10T speakers. The windows consist of one double pane outside and a single pane inside. Each pane is on a separate wood insulated frame to minimize vibrations and maximize soundproofing. Manual Draper Lightblock shades ensure that the room remains totally dark for video.

Our home has a 400 amp electrical service. That service was originally split into two 200 amp panel boxes, one for the East and one for the West side of our home. With the new addition at the East of our home, its 200 amp service panel box has a new 100 amp circuit breaker, which is isolated from the 200 amp panel from which its fed, which feeds a third panel box which contains 19 dedicated 20 amp, 10 guage wire circuits for the Home Theater room only. However, I intentionally wired the Home Theater room and addition lighting, a ceiling dedicated 20 amp circuit (which can but is not presently used for the projector), and the addition air conditioning dedicated 30 amp circuit into the pre-existing East panel box, to help keep noise from those circuits out of the panel box and dedicated circuits for audio and video components. The 19 dedicated 20 amp circuits in the Home Theater room panel box are wall wired same electrical phase, skipping every even circuit in the panel box (otherwise, as in typical panel boxes which don't skip every even circuit, this results in doubling the AC power noise). 4 guage copper wire runs from the Home Theater panel box to a nearby 8 foot copper ground rod well buried in the ground. The house ground is a 4 guage copper wire from the East panel box. And a 4 guage copper wire connects the copper ground rod to the house ground. The Home Theater room electrical outlets are PS Audio Power Ports 20 amp (which replaced Hubbell one grade below hospital grade in August 2002).

Home Theater room colors are optimized for CRT front projection, black carpet over a cement foundation, black ceiling, and black side walls from the front screen wall out seven feet to the edge of the windows, the remainder of the room is dark gray (the dark gray looks like a medium to lighter gray when placed next to black).

Three black art deco style theater lights on each side wall.

Lutron Grafik Eye 3000 remote controlled lighting.

A black, remote controlled whisper quiet ceiling fan centered about two-thirds into the room from the front screen wall.

Billy Bags Pro 100 Custom DVD & CD rack.

Two rows of three chairs each, black leather, Classic Lifestyles leather recliners (6) with upgraded seat cushions. Firm, flexible and most comfortable for many hours of viewing pleasure at a time. With lumbar support built-in. You can nearly fully recline, or you can sit up with your shoulders pretty much at the top of the chanir, so that the chair back doesn't interfere with the sound from the surround floorstanding Aerial Acoustics 10Ts.

Four Billy Bags amp stands are used as mobile end tables.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #2 of 86 Old 08-26-2006, 11:46 PM - Thread Starter
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QUESTION:

Since I've got a Theta CB3 surround processor with all Xtreme DACs, it is logical to think that the el cheapo DACs in my Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player, purchased this June, ain't gonna sound as good using the Toshiba's multi-channel analog outputs for movies and HD DVD, as using the Toshiba's digital output into my CB3's Xtreme DACs. Right????

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #3 of 86 Old 08-26-2006, 11:48 PM - Thread Starter
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In fact, I was holding off on getting the HD DVD player assuming this. And Bulldogger who also has the CB3 with Six Shooter had already said that he found that the HD DVD player's analog outputs didn't sound better than the digital output, so he sold the HD DVD player
(video concerns though were I understand the primary reason for the salel).

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #4 of 86 Old 08-26-2006, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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But in June I heard the Toshiba XA1 HD DVD players at a friends, specifically "Phantom of the Opera" HD DVD. I had never heard movies sound so good on his system. So I bought one - that very evening. He had it connected via digital, not analog.

So I still wasn't expecting that using the Toshiba's internal DACs and analog outputs would be the way to go in my system.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #5 of 86 Old 08-26-2006, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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In my initial setup, using a toslink cable sounded the best, analog output sucked.

Then I realized I needed to doublecheck my speaker levels by using an external test disc, not the internal test tones in the player. I found the internal test tones were quite off the mark.

Then I got el cheapo AR analog cables at Best Buy - not wanting to spend the bucks yet on my typical Granite Audio cables, doubting it would be worth it.

Put on Apollo 13 HD DVD on the Toshiba, and the DTS DVD on my Theta Compli.

The Compli sounded wonderful as always. In fact, the DVD DTS soundtrack on the Compli was reasonably more dynamic on bass in particular than the higher bitrate downrezzed (from DD+) DTS soundtrack on HD DVD digital to my CB3.
Not surprising, the Compli is amazing re DVD, etc. sonically speaking.

The big surprise was the HD DVD analog outputs using the Toshiba's internal DACs to convert the DD+ soundtrack to PCM to the Six Shooter. WOW!
I could feel the bass moving so much more in waves. More microdynamics.
Amazing.

Unfortunately, that night, the AC three prong IEC of the Six Shooter busted, and off for repair.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #6 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 12:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Based on my Apollo 13 experience, I obtained three 2M pairs of Granite Audio 470 interconnects to connect the HD DVD to the Six Shooter. So in two weeks, when I got back the repaired Six Shooter, I was set to go.

Initially, I played "Attack on Precinct 13" HD DVD and not impressed with sonics using either analog or toslink outputs of HD DVD player.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #7 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 12:01 AM - Thread Starter
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The next day, I played stuff burning in the HD DVD player, wondering if I had imagined stuff with Apollo 13 and if I should return the HD DVD player. If the HD DVD player continued to sound not near as good as my regular Compli on DVD I would not be happy regardless of its outstanding video.

Then, I replayed some of "Attack on Precinct 13", and now using analog outputs it sounded outstanding, not at all like the night before. Also put on "Apollo 13" and more outstanding than ever using analog outputs. COOL! Darn those el cheapo DACs.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
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I also compared "U-571" on DVD via Theta Compli, on DVD via HD DVD player,
on D-VHS tape on JVC D-VHS VCR, and on HD DVD using HD DVD player.

Again, no matter how good they all sound, HD DVD analog outputs the clear winner!!!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
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post #9 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I've continued to do some comparisons, finding:

HD DVD analog multi-channel outputs are the best every time!

However, as HD DVD player has burned in, its toslink digital output
comes in second (better than the DVD DD 5.1 track on Theta Compli or HD DVD player) - at least on stuff I played, apparently due to HD DVD's higher bit rate converted by the player into DTS 1.5 mbs output via toslink to my CB3.

Comparing regular DVDs on the Compli vs the HD DVD player: Now that the HD DVD player has burned in, regular DVDs sound remarkably good - not quite as good as using the Theta Compli, but good nonetheless. Of course in my system I will take the Compli's dynamic range as what in quick AB comparison seems like a small difference becomes magnified watching a two hour movie.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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Just got the Toshiba HD DVD 2.0 firmware upgrade a few days ago. Now I can play those 4-5 HD DVDs with Dolby True HD (lossless multi-channel) tracks. COOL!
Tried "Training Day" and "Phantom of the Opera". WOW! They set a new sonic
performance for movies in my system. Using the analog multi-channel outputs of course. I did switch and compare using toslink, which sounded really good,
but not as good as the analog.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
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Today I watched the HD DVD of U-2's concert in Dolby Digital Plus (Darn, not DTS True HD). But I gotta tell you. It sounded fantastic!!!!

I tired it both ways, analog vs toslink. Toslink sounded great. But analog simply
has reasonably cleaner and better defined bass and microdynamics and soundstaging, instantly obvious. However, if I hadn't heard the analog, I would have just luved the toslink.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #12 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
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This is just my experience. We live in a changing home theater and audio environment. A few years ago, the Theta CB's Xtreme DACs were King.
Now the Theta Six Shooter is proving to be a King, too. As is the Toshiba HD DVD player.


In my system, I am not concerned about side or center surround speakers, so HD DVD via the Six Shooter gives me what I need in spades.

From what I've read on the web, a few others with "high end" surround processors have had similar experiences, even if arguably the analog multi-channel input of their surround processor wasn't as high quality as my Six Shooter, or if their analog multi-channel input converted incoming analog to digital. Bottom line is we are finding that higher bit rates yet not expensive DACs are translating into better sonics for us.

Can't wait for more concerts to come out - U-2 in DD+ is amazing, but getting concerts in Dolby True HD will be even more spectacular. U-2 in DD+ is so amazing that it didn't leave me gasping for audio only with multi-channel SACD,
and multi-channel SACD is awful good in my system so that's saying that the U-2 HD DVD sounds way way better than I had anticipated.

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post #13 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Based on my Apollo 13 experience, I obtained three 2M pairs of Granite Audio 470 interconnects to connect the HD DVD to the Six Shooter. So in two weeks, when I got back the repaired Six Shooter, I was set to go.

Initially, I played "Attack on Precinct 13" HD DVD and not impressed with sonics using either analog or toslink outputs of HD DVD player.

I think that's what I did Steve. I assumed that all of the HDDVDs would sound good. They do not. Also I was outputting 720 to my projector and 1080 to my SXRD television from the Toshiba. Of course the SXRD is a lot better than my LCD projector. The difference is not as great as it appeared as I subsequently found out that the Toshiba only spits out 540 lines via the 720 out. I was baffled as to why the Toshiba did not look as good as my over-the-air HDTV feed. First generation formats and players have quirks. These quirks led me to some false asumptions.

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post #14 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 06:29 AM
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I'm searching for some old tech, a Parasound CSE 6.1 expander so the I can go to 7.1 via the Circle Surround that the CSE uses. Found one and am waiting for a dealer to get back as to if he still has it. Two Six shooters and 5 big ass amps so you know that I am going to find a way to not just let my back channels idle with these new formats.

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post #15 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

This is just my experience. We live in a changing home theater and audio environment. A few years ago, the Theta CB's Xtreme DACs were King.
Now the Theta Six Shooter is proving to be a King, too. As is the Toshiba HD DVD player.
.

I do not think that it is the player. It is the fact that the Toshiba is using a higher resolution signal. If the playing field were level, I believe the CB would win. We will have to wait a few years to find out .

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post #16 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 06:49 AM
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Wow 12 /15 responses are Steve's....Is this another Theta pontification thread in Sheep's(Toshibas) clothing??

Thre take away here is that the Cheapo Best Buy interconnects you bought astounded you like the Granite Audio's and the Toshiba DACs go toe to toe with the Theta extremes!!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #17 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 07:15 AM
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Interesting.

Just imagine what it would be like with HDMI 1.1... I was listening to the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks on Constantine, POTO and Training Day (all HD-DVDs) yesterday over HDMI 1.1.

Listening to those tracks entirely in the digital domain (with no additional D/A and A/D conversion) was absolutely stunning.

It's too bad that Theta is presently behind the curve and can't fully use the potential of those new HD players...
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post #18 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVESQUE View Post

Interesting.

Just imagine what it would be like with HDMI 1.1... I was listening to the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks on Constantine, POTO and Training Day (all HD-DVDs) yesterday over HDMI 1.1.

Listening to those tracks entirely in the digital domain (with no additional D/A and A/D conversion) was absolutely stunning.

It's too bad that Theta is presently behind the curve and can't fully used the potential of those new HD players...

Steve will tell you that forget digital domain...those Toshiba DACs are on par with his Extremes...

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #19 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I think that's what I did Steve. I assumed that all of the HDDVDs would sound good. They do not. Also I was outputting 720 to my projector and 1080 to my SXRD television from the Toshiba. Of course the SXRD is a lot better than my LCD projector. The difference is not as great as it appeared as I subsequently found out that the Toshiba only spits out 540 lines via the 720 out. I was baffled as to why the Toshiba did not look as good as my over-the-air HDTV feed. First generation formats and players have quirks. These quirks led me to some false asumptions.

Apparently the brand new 2.0 firmware upgrade has fixed the 720p dilemma so now it looks much better.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #20 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Steve will tell you that forget digital domain...those Toshiba DACs are on par with his Extremes...

Jeff, can you quite farting and start participating?

I'm just telling you what I'm hearing and enjoying. Isn't that what home theater is supposed to be about instead of bickering about whose gun is better all the time?

Egads I would luv to upgrade the Toshiba DACs to the Xtreme quality and hear it through the Six Shooter. And more practically someday upgrade my CB3 to HDMI
so I can use hopefully even better Theta DACs to do the conversion. But what counts now is now and darn those el cheapo Toshiba DACs sound awful good, which yes certainly surprised me.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
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post #21 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 09:02 AM
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Funny thing about this game. When you upgrade DACs and such, you always here huge differences, but then when you plug in the old gear or cheap gear, you realize "huh, why does this sound so good?" We seem to go in these weird circles where more expensive is better until we've blown insane amounts of money, then work our way back to "wow, cheap stuff sounds as good or better than expensive stuff". Then start the process all over again. It's only a matter of time before Toshibas are being modded to sound even better, then Theta will come out with the ultimate HD-DVD player, then HVD will come out for $500 and then blow us all away again with its sonic superiority, repeat ad naseaum until we run out of cash or life.

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post #22 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyD View Post

Steve

You have a very nice theater. Do you have some pictures to share. Clicked on the link to your picture page but its bare Would love to see this.

For photos go to this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=bruzonsky

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post #23 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 09:58 AM
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Until we can experience hd-dvd sound thru hdmi 1.1 into the CB3, the toshiba will probably sound better. It's not even the same signal that can be compared over the digital out/analog out.

bulldogger : the problem from 720p is going 1080p->540p->720p. The chain is now reduced to 1080p->720p with FW 2.0

As for 7.1, you can copy the signal from the surround to the side with a splitter into your amp. Works ok for a cheap solution. Very frustrating to have those costly dacs collecting dust.
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post #24 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiman View Post

As for 7.1, you can copy the signal from the surround to the side with a splitter into your amp. Works ok for a cheap solution. Very frustrating to have those costly dacs collecting dust.

Bulldogger, this is perhaps the best solution for you. As you have Granite Audio cabling like me, you can contact Don at Granite Audio and he can make some custom quality splitters if you like.

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post #25 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiman View Post

Until we can experience hd-dvd sound thru hdmi 1.1 into the CB3, the toshiba will probably sound better. It's not even the same signal that can be compared over the digital out/analog out.

Agreed. I would be shocked if the Toshiba's DACs didn't sound better since the 5.1 analog outs are passing high resolution surround while the digital out is only passing compressed DD or DTS. Same situation where the analog outs of a cheap SACD player sound better than the digital output because the analog outs are passing the SACD layer while the digital out is only passing the CD layer.
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post #26 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 02:52 PM
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Hi

maybe not the rright place to ask cansomeone post the procedure to upgrade the firmware?

Or PM me...

Frantz
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post #27 of 86 Old 08-27-2006, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Hi

maybe not the rright place to ask cansomeone post the procedure to upgrade the firmware?

Or PM me...

Download MagicISO (do a search and find it), install it.

Download the 2.0 beta firmware, which some folks say is identical to the CD that Toshiba will be mailing us, from

http://rapidshare.de/files/30453167/...are.nrg.html\\

Then click on MagicISo and its real easy, of course put a blank CD=R in your computer

Next, put the CD=R in your HD DVD player and follow the on screen instructions.

Make sure power ain't interrupted or you got big problems.

If your HD DVD player is web connected, then you can also download firmware in the Settings Menu of the HD DVD player - if you do this, ensure there is no disc in the player, as reports of folks doing this with a disc in the player ain't good.

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post #28 of 86 Old 08-28-2006, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVESQUE View Post

Interesting.

Just imagine what it would be like with HDMI 1.1... I was listening to the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks on Constantine, POTO and Training Day (all HD-DVDs) yesterday over HDMI 1.1.

Listening to those tracks entirely in the digital domain (with no additional D/A and A/D conversion) was absolutely stunning.

It's too bad that Theta is presently behind the curve and can't fully use the potential of those new HD players...

There is no additional digital to analog conversion? The player is doing the conversion in one case and in the other the processor.

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post #29 of 86 Old 08-28-2006, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

It's only a matter of time before Toshibas are being modded to sound even better, .

, my plans are to contact some of the guys that do mods as soon as I get my player.

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post #30 of 86 Old 08-28-2006, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiman View Post

As for 7.1, you can copy the signal from the surround to the side with a splitter into your amp. Works ok for a cheap solution. Very frustrating to have those costly dacs collecting dust.

I believe you get "comb-filtering" when you do that. I need something to process the signal to avoid having two speakers produce the exact same signal. I have found one CSE 6.1 but it's new and I do not want to buy a new one since they hae been discontinued for a few years.

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