The Bland's Halcro? A report??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1601 Old 10-05-2006, 09:01 PM - Thread Starter
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So, when are we getting a report from TheBland about his new baby???

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post #2 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 06:33 AM
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I have to tell you I was surprised by the set up process. The manual, not nearly as detailed and intuitive as Lexicon's, confused me a bit but eventually I got there. There are still some bugs on the unit.

I haven't tried it out yet and I have found a few bugs with seeing the OSD when HDMI is engaged. I still haven't nailed down what the issue is but I will this weekend. I spoke with customer service at Halcro and was told that a major firmware upgrade is coming in the next 1 to 2 weeks. They will send it out on USB data sticks for a quick install and apparently it will addresss the aforementioned issues I called about plus others I have not yet encountered. I have not even tried out the scaler yet. Source set up is not as tweakable as my old Lexicon but seems adequate for my situation. Lexicon has had had years to fine tune their GUI and I can attest it is the best I have seen. But sonics are what counts, and that I have not yet checked.

I have to say that at this point, their customer service is very good. They do seem to listen and were openly aware of the issues I encountered. They plan to address them all.

I did use the automatic speaker distance and level set up with the enclosed mic, and it seems to have worked well (though I will recheck it against my own meter).


Apparrently it will address the last bugs and most importantly ENABLE multichannel, uncompressed PCM for HD DVD and BluRay. Currently, it only allows for 2 channel.

I hope to watch movies and play this weekend. So look for more.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #3 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 07:24 AM
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Jeff, can you refresh my memory, why you didn't just go with the MC-12HD?

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post #4 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

ENABLE multichannel, uncompressed PCM for HD DVD and BluRay.

I hope to watch movies and play this weekend. So look for more.

Jeff,
The last thing I would want to do is put any added pressure on you. If you are like me , those weekends are what allows a reset of my nervous system from the sometimes crazy world out there but........................ when are you going to have a meet !!! ?

I hope it will still be this fall.


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post #5 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 08:44 AM
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Jeff:

If you have bugs "on the unit", have you considered professional help vis a vis an exterminator That's a bit different from bugs with the unit

Sorry man, but that was just out there waiting to be said!

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post #6 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 08:57 AM
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Jeff,

When you get a chance can you post about how the Halcro sounds as a simple preamp for stereo music sources vs the Lex? I use my Lex about 50-50 for listening to music and watching movies and the quality of music was imho one of it's biggest strengths.
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post #7 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 09:12 AM
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Jeff,

". Lexicon has had had years to fine tune their GUI and I can attest it is the best I have seen."

It has been that way for a long time. A 10 year old DC-1 has a menu system that is laid out almost identically.

" Apparrently it will address the last bugs and most importantly ENABLE multichannel, uncompressed PCM for HD DVD and BluRay. Currently, it only allows for 2 channel."

Considering that you posted the entire reason you made a move was to get multi-channel high resolution audio over HDMI I'd think I'd get the above statement in writing from Halcro. Along with something like if it isn't done in x amount of time you can return the product.

Shawn

P.S. Do more research before buying products.....
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post #8 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Jeff,

". Lexicon has had had years to fine tune their GUI and I can attest it is the best I have seen."

It has been that way for a long time. A 10 year old DC-1 has a menu system that is laid out almost identically.

" Apparrently it will address the last bugs and most importantly ENABLE multichannel, uncompressed PCM for HD DVD and BluRay. Currently, it only allows for 2 channel."

Considering that you posted the entire reason you made a move was to get multi-channel high resolution audio over HDMI I'd think I'd get the above statement in writing from Halcro. Along with something like if it isn't done in x amount of time you can return the product.

Shawn

P.S. Do more research before buying products.....

I would've never thought to ask this and I gotta tell you that it was my assumption that this feature was automatic when HDMI is present. I was very surprised to find out it was not a current feature. I told my dealer as well as Halcro that there would be no other reason to invest in such a product. All parties agreed and assured it was coming.

Not a bad idea about getting in writing.

I switched from Lexicon simply to try something new. The value on my 12B was dropping and I wanted to bail before too big of a loss. When Lexicon delivers an all new product, I may go back. Halcro has a stellar reputation and if they build a processor that performs anywhere near the quality of their amps, I'd be very happy.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #9 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 10:02 AM
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Jeff,

" I would've never thought to ask this and I gotta tell you that it was my assumption that this feature was automatic when HDMI is present."

As you found it is not. In fact at this point handling multi-channel audio over HDMI is more the exception then the rule. That is changing of course.

"All parties agreed and assured it was coming.

Not a bad idea about getting in writing."

I'm just saying that to cover yourself since I know you wanted MCH audio over HDMI to be able to take advantage of DD+ and Dolby THD that is available today.

I have no idea if Halcro will be implementing it or not and/or how quickly that will occur. I just know plenty of other companies have made statements about upcoming features/functionality that never occurred. It is why most recommend making purchases based on what a product does today, not based on what is said to be coming tomorrow.

" and if they build a processor that performs anywhere near the quality of their amps, I'd be very happy. "

Sure, but expertise in one area (building amps) does not imply expertise (DSP/processing) in another. That they use a third party DSP platform demonstrates that.

Shawn
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post #10 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 10:22 AM
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Good points. I don't know whther the Halcro will measure up to or exceed the Lexicon in performance. I am sure either way, performance will be close.

This HDMI thing is such a PITA. As much as I pay attention to the latest, I never would've guessed about the PCM multichannel NOT being accepted over HDMI...

I am sure it will be added but who knew???

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #11 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 12:48 PM
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You will not be sorry you got the Halcro. Had mine since they came out and the sound quality is the best I've had. Movies are just amazing as well as two channel. Halcro has been great to work with continuing to upgrade and or replace if hardware has been changed. I've had both Mark Levinson and lex and I would not go back. Its all about the SOUND.
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post #12 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc828 View Post

You will not be sorry you got the Halcro. Had mine since they came out and the sound quality is the best I've had. Movies are just amazing as well as two channel. Halcro has been great to work with continuing to upgrade and or replace if hardware has been changed. I've had both Mark Levinson and lex and I would not go back. Its all about the SOUND.

Good to know.. I can't wait to do a listening test this weekend!

What sdo you know about the upcoming firmware upgrade that is supposed to include multichannel PCM over HDMI?

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #13 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 02:16 PM
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Jeff,

I just spoke to my Halcro dealer and he told me that Halcro is releasing a hardware upgrade kit to go along with the firmware upgrade in order to enable to multichannel PCM over HDMI. The release should be very soon.
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post #14 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 02:17 PM
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Normally I would just assume that when you pay those kind of bucks, they will do the right thing ........ but I bought into that with the Proceed gear several years ago, paying $5500 (in 1999) for a dvd transport that was built to accept upgrades, etc, but it never worked correctly and finally they killed the whole product line.

Hopefully Halcro will be more like Lumagen and not like Harmon International (who owned Proceed).
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post #15 of 1601 Old 10-06-2006, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Good points. I don't know whther the Halcro will measure up to or exceed the Lexicon in performance. I am sure either way, performance will be close.

This HDMI thing is such a PITA. As much as I pay attention to the latest, I never would've guessed about the PCM multichannel NOT being accepted over HDMI...

I am sure it will be added but who knew???

Does the Lexicon MC-12 HD with HDMI v1.1 permit multichannel PCM over HDMI?

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #16 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 03:25 AM
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Lexicon does...but though I have no direct knowledge, I heard from my dealer that the there might be some down resing of the HDMI PCM at some point in the chain though the Lexicon display ashows 96/24....

Perhaps Shawn could comment to this. My dealer told me of this but I have no direct knowledge.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #17 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 08:07 AM
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"...but though I have no direct knowledge, I heard from my dealer that the there might be some down resing of the HDMI PCM at some point in the chain though the Lexicon display ashows 96/24...."

Your dealer is flat out wrong. The MC-12 has internally supported 6 channels of 96/24 input data since the first day it shipped years ago. The A/Ds in the Lex. run at 96/24... so when you used the 5.1a input and redigitized to apply processing it was running on top of a six channel 96/24 source and could expand that out to 10 channels of 96/24 from Logic 7 and bass management. It could actually do twelve channels but Lexicon hasn't used the other two channels for anything yet.

The MC-12HD is very much the same. It has no problems at all accepting 6 channels of 96/24 from the HDMI input and processing them at full resolution. There is no downsampling in the Lex.

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post #18 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 01:08 PM
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Well, I must admit I'm interested in Jeff's observations, though, as I speak, I'm awaiting delivery of my MC-12HD (balanced, EQ). While I love my Halcro amplifiers, I used to love my Krell amplifiers, but definitely did not like it when I switched to Krell A/V processors. I can't see why I'd want to risk the change.

Nick
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post #19 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 01:53 PM
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Nick,

I agree...any time you switch from something that is solid, you run a risk. I guess I'll have to see.

I like to try new things and if the Halcro turns out to be a sonic superstar, well then it was the right choice. If not, I can fully reassess in a year or two when the new, fully redesigned HDMI 1.3 processors hit the market.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #20 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Does the Lexicon MC-12 HD with HDMI v1.1 permit multichannel PCM over HDMI?

Again... yes....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7950678

Write it down somewhere.

Shawn
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post #21 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 03:33 PM
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Nick,

I was wondering what you were doing when I saw your MC-12 for sale.

Have fun with the HD when you get it!

Shawn
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post #22 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 03:47 PM
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Nick,

BTW, I assume you have ordered one already but if not strongly consider pickup up one of these:

http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd.html

With it to the MC-12HD over HDMI you get a multi-channel digital connection for your DVD-As *and* SACDs.

Shawn
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post #23 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Again... yes....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7950678

Write it down somewhere.

Shawn

OK. I wrote it down here. You feel better now?

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #24 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

Nick,

I was wondering what you were doing when I saw your MC-12 for sale.

Have fun with the HD when you get it!

Shawn

Am I missing something about the spectacular trade in program with Lexicon? Why are guys selling the MC12 instead of trading up to the MC12HD?

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #25 of 1601 Old 10-07-2006, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Nick,

I agree...any time you switch from something that is solid, you run a risk. I guess I'll have to see.

I like to try new things and if the Halcro turns out to be a sonic superstar, well then it was the right choice. If not, I can fully reassess in a year or two when the new, fully redesigned HDMI 1.3 processors hit the market.

Hey, you have the balls to try something new rather than just get stuck into the brand loyalty thing. If it does not work out you can always switch back. I salute you for trying something new and look forward to your report.

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #26 of 1601 Old 10-08-2006, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

Am I missing something about the spectacular trade in program with Lexicon? Why are guys selling the MC12 instead of trading up to the MC12HD?

Yes, you are missing something.

As I understand the trade-in program, the dealer takes your unit in trade, and then has the independent responsibility of selling it. Subject to the parameters of what Lexicon permits in terms of the unit you're trading in, the dealer receives the MC-12HD unit at a lower cost.

Though I agreed to assist in the marketing, it was essentially my dealer selling my unit, and he insisted that it be identified as a unit that was subject to the trade-in program. I'm guessing that's because each unit can only be used once in the program.

I can't disclose the ultimate deal I received on the MC-12HD, but I will say that it renders the doom-saying speculators as not merely wrong, but inane. The amount I am out of pocket made it a no-brainer. The trade-in program, in my case, was fabulous.

Lexicon has been there at every juncture in the nearly five years that I've owned the MC-12, and now they've done it with a fabulous upgrade program. And of course, they still have Room EQ, HDMI processing/switching, and a company with a demonstrated track record of constant and timely improvement to their products, even when they're several features ahead of the competition.

Nick
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post #27 of 1601 Old 10-08-2006, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Satullo View Post

cost.

.

I can't disclose the ultimate deal I received on the MC-12HD, but I will say that it renders the doom-saying speculators as not merely wrong, but inane. :

That just your opinion. Trade-in program was not enough to stop The Bland from at least trying something else now was it ?

Never become so involved with something that it blinds you.
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post #28 of 1601 Old 10-08-2006, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

That just your opinion. Trade-in program was not enough to stop The Bland from at least trying something else now was it ?


What I do has nothing to do with Nick or any other buyer. Nick, Shawn and the other MC-12 owners are smart and aware guys. They have certainly made a thougtful and intelligent choice with the MC-12 HD. Me going with Halcro says nothing good or bad about Lexicon, Halcro or Nick's choice. The MC-12 HD is a good machine and the cost factor is very fair.

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #29 of 1601 Old 10-08-2006, 06:28 AM
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And let's not forget a bit of incorrect info too. Thebland went into his Halcro purchase assuming that it basically could do everything with HDMI that the MC12-HD can. He was wrong. Hopefully that will be corrected, but if he had to do it again...?

Michael
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post #30 of 1601 Old 10-08-2006, 06:29 AM
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I am going to look into the trade in program for my MC-12B. Is there an upgrade path for the MC-12HD to HDMI 1.3??

Phil
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