CBIII vs. Halcro SS100 - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 249 Old 03-18-2007, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Swantko View Post

I've spent some time with the Halcro (not with the Theta however) and currently own an 861 (which I am very happy with).

If you are looking to improve 2-channel I would highly recommend a true 2-channel pre-amp. I have yet to hear a processor that can come close to a good dedicated pre.
.

Or the Theta CBIII and it's robot controlled analog pre-amp, the Six Shooter. It beats all two channel pre-amps that I have tried under 10K. VTL 7.5 was only thing better.

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post #182 of 249 Old 03-18-2007, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Anyone here have experience comparing the Meridian 861v4 with either the Halcro or the Theta?

I place a far higher premium on audio than on video.

I'm particularly intrigued with "replacing" the Trifield mode on the Meridian (my default for two channel audio source material) with a "blended center" approach using the Theta.

Last year, I did a comparison with the Meridian 861 vs the Six Shooter and Marantz SACD player. The Six shooter was better than the 861. I did not have time to compare the 861 to the CB3. My frat brother who's system I was using had the VTL 7.5 which showed up both Theta and Meridian for music. Considering how well the 861 did, in a comparison just against the CB3 with no Six Shooter, my suspicion is that it could win such a shoot-out. My reasoning is that the gap between the CB3 and the Six shooters seems larger than the gap between the 861 and Six Shooter with music.

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post #183 of 249 Old 03-26-2007, 06:21 PM
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It doesn't surprise me at all that the VTL would out-gun most comers when it comes to 2 channel stuff. I wish there was a way to get the best of both the HT and 2 channel world in one system.
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post #184 of 249 Old 03-26-2007, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

It doesn't surprise me at all that the VTL would out-gun most comers when it comes to 2 channel stuff. I wish there was a way to get the best of both the HT and 2 channel world in one system.

There is...it is called a Meridian 861/808i/800 combination...apologies as I could not resist...

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post #185 of 249 Old 03-27-2007, 06:37 AM
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Thanks Rene. It helps a lot.
Sooooo....the CBIII becomes like a digital pass-thru control box and the Digi out card becomes a multi-port extension of the digital output from the player? Okay....I see that. I just got my CBIII back from Theta. I wish I had thought about having the card installed while at the factory. It makes sense that this is what people would use when combining the GenVIII with the CBIII or other DAC/pre-amps [I wish I could find one with some tubes in it]. I would think this setup could get a little cumbersome if you stray too far away from the Theta set-up.
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post #186 of 249 Old 03-27-2007, 09:31 AM
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Rene, that emoticon says it all
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post #187 of 249 Old 04-01-2007, 07:13 PM
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I thought I might add my 2 cents to this thread as I have had a Halcro SSP-100 for about a month now.

My previous processor was the Meridian G68 XXV which considering it's near $10K price tag is a direct competitor to the SSP-100.

For music I would have to give the slight edge to the G68 as the sound was more fleshed out and not as thin sounding as the SSP-100 (I only have about 30 to 40 hours on the SSP-100 so hopefully the sound will fill out more with burn in)

For movies I thought maybe there was some brand loyalty going on in this thread as having owned Lexicon in the past (great for movies but sounds like someone is pouring sand in your ears for music from all the grain) I did not think the SSP-100 could be that much better for movies. Boy were they right!!!!
I have never owned a pre-pro with so much dynamics and surround envelopment before. I have also never owned a pre-pro that blends all of my speakers and subs so well that it feels like a wall of sound that envelops you. It really is one hell of a trick with the SSP-100 as with some sounds you can look at your surround and still shake your head wondering how a sound is placed so precisely in another location. The SSP-100 does a phenomenal job of placing you in the action without sounding like a gimmick.

If you are going to judge this pre-pro solely for music than it might come up a bit short, not that it is bad, it is excellent for well recorded music. If I was a 75/25 music person than the Meridian G68 may be a better choice (I am not including the Theta Casa III and Meridian 861 as they add about 4 to 6K to the price) Then again if I was that much more into music but wanted the best movie experience as well than a dedicated 2 channel pre and the Halcro (either SSP-80 or 100) would be the way to go.
I love music but spend most of my time with TV and movies, probably 70/30 movies. I can't imagine swapping out my SSP-100 with any other pre-pro in the world and that is saying a lot for a constant upgrader like myself.

The Bland and Pramrod were not kidding when they spoke of the sound quality of the SSP-100.

Thanks guys!

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post #188 of 249 Old 04-02-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

IThe again if I was that much more into music but wanted the best movie experience as well than a dedicated 2 channel pre and the Halcro (either SSP-80 or 100) would be the way to go.

Theta CBIII and Six Shooter. Seemless with one remote and better than most 2 channel pre-amps. No need to bother with a separate two channel pre-amp now unless you plan to buy something like a VTL 7.5 or Audio Research R 3.

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post #189 of 249 Old 04-02-2007, 08:31 PM
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It needs about 100 hours to really open up.
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post #190 of 249 Old 04-03-2007, 03:51 AM
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In a separate thread a few months ago, someone mentioned using the unity gain from the CBIII out to a separate preamp. You guys know anything about this?
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post #191 of 249 Old 04-03-2007, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfectionist2 View Post

It needs about 100 hours to really open up.

If you are referring to the Halcro SSP-100, each different input type and signal path needs approximately 200 hours + of burn in time. After that, the SSP-100 will have reached it's full potential.

Example: Balanced Bypass, Balanced DSP, 7.1 Bypass, HDMI, Coax and Toslink need to be individually burned in for around 200 hours each. I suggest just running it around the clock with different source types selected.

The preamp sections (There are separate Balanced and Single Ended preamps in this baby) will obviously settle in after the first 200 hours or so.

The D/A converters will sound best after 400 hours.

Shunyata Python Alpha and Siltech Ruby Hill power cords are a great compliment to the SSP-100 processor. Plugging it into one of the "Digital" AC receptacles on a Shunyata Hydra Power Conditioner is also a plus.

Regards,

Anthony Ciaburri
Audio Dynamics Div.
Wallingford, CT

Halcro Logic and Halcro Reference Dealer and resident Halcro expert.

Go listen for yourselves. I have to admit, I am biased.
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post #192 of 249 Old 04-03-2007, 06:34 PM
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Thanks for the info.

I know that my SSP100 started to sound a lot better at 100 hours. Havn't reached the higher numbers yet so maybe i need more burn in.
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post #193 of 249 Old 04-03-2007, 08:50 PM
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Is it possible to use the Six Shooter with any other preamp besides the CBIII?

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post #194 of 249 Old 04-04-2007, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Gino the answer is: NO
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post #195 of 249 Old 04-08-2007, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

In a separate thread a few months ago, someone mentioned using the unity gain from the CBIII out to a separate preamp. You guys know anything about this?

I'm curious as to how this would work. I doubt the new guy at Theta can answer this. John could have I am sure. Was if for all channels?

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post #196 of 249 Old 04-08-2007, 05:02 PM
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no, I think it was just for running a 2 channel pre amp in a daisy chain of sorts with the CB. If I remember correctly, someone was unhappy with the 2 channel performance of the CB and posed the question. It was a couple of years ago.
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post #197 of 249 Old 04-08-2007, 11:18 PM
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I am liking the SSP-100 so much I am sure I will reach the 100 hour mark sooner than any other pre-amp I have owned. I will probably do some burn in when at work as well to speed up the process and hit the 200 hour mark sooner.

If you are trying to burn in the the inputs and outputs do you need to have your amp on as well? I would rather leave the amp off as my amp and speakers are already fully burned in.

Has anyone tried to compare using the HDMI input for digital audio as well as opposed to the RCA or toslink digital inputs?

I have noticed a problem with the 2 channel audio input for my Velodyne SMS-1. I was using input 4 but could not get any sound, I tried input 5 and got sound but very low and had a crackling sound at times. I was eventually able to get a suitable volume to calibrate my sub but the Halcro was cranked to +3 just to get my mains to read 83db through the SMS-1. I used my SMS-1 when I first got the SSP-100 and it worked fine then so this is odd.


Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

Mike

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post #198 of 249 Old 04-09-2007, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I am liking the SSP-100 so much I am sure I will reach the 100 hour mark sooner than any other pre-amp I have owned. I will probably do some burn in when at work as well to speed up the process and hit the 200 hour mark sooner.

If you are trying to burn in the the inputs and outputs do you need to have your amp on as well? I would rather leave the amp off as my amp and speakers are already fully burned in.

Has anyone tried to compare using the HDMI input for digital audio as well as opposed to the RCA or toslink digital inputs?

I have noticed a problem with the 2 channel audio input for my Velodyne SMS-1. I was using input 4 but could not get any sound, I tried input 5 and got sound but very low and had a crackling sound at times. I was eventually able to get a suitable volume to calibrate my sub but the Halcro was cranked to +3 just to get my mains to read 83db through the SMS-1. I used my SMS-1 when I first got the SSP-100 and it worked fine then so this is odd.


Thanks for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

Mike


No sub sound?

In the menu under 'SPEAKERS', make sure you have the 'Yes' selection when the processor asks if you have a sub.

Areyour front speakers set to large? If so, check crossover settings.

Source #7 and #8 are for CD sound. Use 7 for a balanced output from your CD player or use Source 8 and connect the digital coax to digital coax input #3 on the halcro. With the Halcro, you should try and use the default settings for given gear. See page 35 of the manual.

No sound difference in Tos, coax, and HDMI digital.


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post #199 of 249 Old 04-10-2007, 02:26 PM
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I dont think that using a GEN 8 with the CB3 would work with the futur HDMI card.
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post #200 of 249 Old 04-11-2007, 06:39 AM
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"In that case there is no change compared to now:
hdmi-in > CB3 > AES or dig-RCA connection > Gen8."

Unless Theta is not allowed to pass full resolution audio from HDMI over unprotected S/PDIF. Which they may not be allowed to do.

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post #201 of 249 Old 04-11-2007, 09:43 AM
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"hdmi transports (lossless) PCM, which arrives as such in the CB3 (as soon as hdmi-input is available) and that CB3 will furthermore do what it is doing now already: it transport that PCM signal via SPDIF to Gen8."

The point is the lossless PCM is protected by HDCP encryption. It isn't likely that Theta is going to be able to turn around and pass that same data over unprotected S/PDIF.

Look at Meridian for example. Their DVD-A player has 3 S/PDIF outputs, but it passes data over them encypted. Likewise in a digital theatre system the digital S/PDIF outputs for their pre-pros are all encrypted to their DSP speakers.

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post #202 of 249 Old 04-15-2007, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rene-L View Post

Bulldogger & Javry,

I know that in case of a chain like [CB3 + Gen8 + preamp] volume is controlled via the CB3:
# Gen8 volume at position-73 = 2 volt out
# preamp at unigain (in=out), not full gain (too much noise)

Note that the Gen8 is a dac+preamp unit. So the chain is CB3 dig-out connected to Gen8 which is used as dac only and the preamp is an audiophile seperated one. Here the Gen8 and seperated preamp (buffers only) are slaves mastered by the CB3.

Hope this helps, Rene

What happens if you use the tape out, with the main dac selected and a digital source inputted? Seems like you get to use the CBIII as a dac via the tape out? I do not have a separate pre-amp to test this.

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post #203 of 249 Old 04-15-2007, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

What happens if you use the tape out, with the main dac selected and a digital source inputted? Seems like you get to use the CBIII as a dac via the tape out? I do not have a separate pre-amp to test this.

that sounds more like what was being discussed. I think the question was whether there was a way to bypass the pre amp and just use the DAC for the front two channels while still allowing full pre/pro capability for everything else. I seem to recall that the tape loop was brought up as a possible option but I'm not sure anyone tried it to see if it would really work. Sure would be neat to know.
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post #204 of 249 Old 04-22-2007, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

No sub sound?

In the menu under 'SPEAKERS', make sure you have the 'Yes' selection when the processor asks if you have a sub.

Areyour front speakers set to large? If so, check crossover settings.

Source #7 and #8 are for CD sound. Use 7 for a balanced output from your CD player or use Source 8 and connect the digital coax to digital coax input #3 on the halcro. With the Halcro, you should try and use the default settings for given gear. See page 35 of the manual.

No sound difference in Tos, coax, and HDMI digital.

I got sound from my sub but when calibrating the subwoofer using the SMS-1 it outputs a tone that is picked up by the mic from the SMS-1. You have to mute the sub that is connected to the SMS-1 and turn the volume up on your pre-pro until it reads about 80db. The SMS-1 outputs the tone via L/R RCA outputs to the pre-pro and I was having trouble getting the tone at all from the Halcro. Turns out a re-boot of the Halcro fixed the problem and beautiful room corrected bass is filling the air!!!!!!!!!

I really haven't noticed much sound difference with the Tos, coax, and HDMI digital either but have not really sat down to compare critically (so happy with the sound that I am not sure if I want to waste the time to compare anyway)

Thanks for all the comments and advice Bland, it is really appreciated.

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post #205 of 249 Old 04-22-2007, 10:43 PM
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I'd be curious to know if you hear any difference between tos and coax. Personally, I don't hear a significant difference but there are folks who seem to prefer one over the other.
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post #206 of 249 Old 04-23-2007, 07:47 AM
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For you folks that are thinking Halcro....Don't forget about the SSP-80. Sonically it's equal to the 100 and if you have a quality projector or scaler ie (DVDO VP-50), then you probably wouldn't use the scaler in the SSP-100 anyway or Anthem for that matter.

Although, I have not seen the scaler in the Anthen, I bet that it is no better than the DVDO scaler or the processing chips in a 1080P Runco, Vidikron or other highend projector. If your projector or display device is SOTA, then you probably won't use the scalers in your pre-pro. IMHO
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post #207 of 249 Old 04-23-2007, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnbasser View Post

Although, I have not seen the scaler in the Anthen, I bet that it is no better than the DVDO scaler or the processing chips in a 1080P Runco, Vidikron or other highend projector.

You are wrong here. And you would loose your bet. I was able to compare the Anthem D2 scaler to the DVDO VP50 and Crystalio II, and the D2 is easily on the same level with those 2 for picture quality. That was with a Sony Ruby VPL-VW100, JVC HD-1 (RS-1 clone), Pioneer Elite BDP-HD1 Blu-ray player and Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player.

I'm not alone. There is around 8-9 AVS members who made the switch from the DVDO VP50 to the Anthem D2 in the last months, and they all prefer the Anthem for picture quality with HD. With SD, the VP50 is slightly better, but not by much. You can come and ask in the gigantic Anthem D2 thread on AVS if you want some other testimony then mine (just click on the link in my signature...).

And the D2 is ALOT easier to work with when dealing with the new HD audio formats over HDMI. 1080p24 is also working better on the D2 then on both the DVDO VP50 and Crystalio II.


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post #208 of 249 Old 04-23-2007, 10:40 AM
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[/quote]You are wrong here. And you would loose your bet. I was able to compare the Anthem D2 scaler to the DVDO VP50 and Crystalio II, and the D2 is easily on the same level with those 2 for picture quality.

I stand corrected. If it is that good, then I'm impressed.
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post #209 of 249 Old 04-26-2007, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javry View Post

that sounds more like what was being discussed. I think the question was whether there was a way to bypass the pre amp and just use the DAC for the front two channels while still allowing full pre/pro capability for everything else. I seem to recall that the tape loop was brought up as a possible option but I'm not sure anyone tried it to see if it would really work. Sure would be neat to know.

I tried it and it works. You can use the CBIII as a dac via the tape out. All other functions appear to work as normal in unison with the information being output via the tape out. I just hooked up a small lcd television to confirm that if I feed in a digital source, I could get the analog out of the tape out if I wanted to use a separate pre-amp instead of the internals of the CBIII for volume. I do not have an idea of how good or bad this sounds but must say, the 19 inch LCD television has never sounded so good . You can mute the volume on the CBIII and there is no effect on the tape out. However, in the tape out menu, I selected tape out and coax 1 which is where I have the digital source inputting into the CBIII. If I switch to an input that in not set-up for coax input 1, then of course I lose the sound. What I wanted to know is if I could loop this sound back into the Six Shooter. This did not appear to be possible. Should work fine with a separate pre-amp. Since the tape out appears to be a straight line level signal with no volume controls, it would appear to be bypassing the internal volume control of the CBIII.

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post #210 of 249 Old 04-26-2007, 02:05 PM
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Given the signal went to your TV, it sounds like the CBIII is still pre amping. If you hook the tape out signal to an external pre amp the worst that could happens is you would be pre amping twice. Anybody know if that's an issue?
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