Initial impressions of Evolution Acoustics MM3 Loudspeaker - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 177 Old 06-05-2007, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

How does one talk you into it? By talking you out of it?


Person 1: Nah, you really don't want to try to sit on my new chair. It "sucks"!
Person 2: [Tries the chair just to see how "bad" it is]

Person 2: Dude, this chair is awesome!
Person 2: [-1500$]
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post #152 of 177 Old 06-05-2007, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mike lavigne View Post

1. not true. it still transfers the weight off your spine and distributes it to your thighs and lower legs even in the upright position; i've been using it in that position for 8 years. the degree of effect is less but also the tendancy to drift off.

note; see my system page for a picture of what i consider an upright position. it is still leaned back some.

I think we are on the same page, I was just hoping to find something I could sit in the upright position if I wanted without being reclined at all. On the current model (and I assume on yours) it is just not meant to be used in the upright position. Even the sales person said the chair is only meant to be used slightly (or more reclined). One of the things I loved about the chair was the arm placement. Many chairs it's impossible to truly relax your arms. They either hang or are too close to your body etc. On this chair at least for my body it was perfect. The store I was in had several different chairs/brands that were similar in design to the perfect chair. Once I sat in the perfect chair and then moved to the other chairs I wouldn't even consider them.

I did find one other chair I liked very much, it's the one in the fireplace here:

http://www.chairworks.com/residential.html

But the place I saw it wasn't even selling it and i cannot find it anywhere.
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post #153 of 177 Old 06-06-2007, 10:12 PM
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Thanks Mike, that's what I thought too. The narrower top is certainly more conducive to a good chair. Still, I'll check it out.

And also Thanks for the speaker info. I keep reading about the MM3's and my curiousity got the best of me ; ) They are really a nice designed speaker imo.

Chris
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post #154 of 177 Old 04-27-2009, 01:52 PM
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Talk of these speakers has sure died down since introduction.

I still really want to audition some, so I am surprised at the lack of recognition they get.
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post #155 of 177 Old 04-27-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspyr View Post

Talk of these speakers has sure died down since introduction.

I still really want to audition some, so I am surprised at the lack of recognition they get.

Same here and to me a shame... They were to me relatively sensibly priced but these lack of response even from audiophile seems to have convinced the designer to come with a hyper-version with now a price tag of $200,000.. ? That is to me quite befuddling: in order for a product to receive ANY recognition, it must be priced in the stratosphere... ???

Frantz
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post #156 of 177 Old 04-28-2009, 09:06 AM
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I have heard the MM2's once at my dealers place. Man did it sound great. To me anyway. Powerful and revealing in his system. I also heard the newer MMMini2 at T.H.E Show. I think that is $40,000. The One is probably around $30,000 but can be upgraded to the 2. That system sounded fantastic even under show conditions. There is info on the MM7 on their website. It looks like one of those systems that has the tweeter and woofer columns so it is a 4 piece system.
http://evolutionacoustics.com/mmseven.html

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post #157 of 177 Old 04-28-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrantzM View Post

Same here and to me a shame... They were to me relatively sensibly priced but these lack of response even from audiophile seems to have convinced the designer to come with a hyper-version with now a price tag of $200,000.. ? That is to me quite befuddling: in order for a product to receive ANY recognition, it must be priced in the stratosphere... ???

Not befuddling at all. People want the cache of having something exclusive enough that the peasant down the street won't be able to buy one. Consequently, it is much easier to sell a high end speaker for $100,000 than it is to sell one for $40K or $50K.

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post #158 of 177 Old 04-28-2009, 02:08 PM
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...........even if it isn't technically as good.

John
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post #159 of 177 Old 04-28-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike lavigne View Post

in my experience spikes always are preferrable to any other floor interface.


Really?
Do this test for me. Hit this


and lay it on your floor. Do it "transfer away" the vibration?

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #160 of 177 Old 05-05-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caspyr View Post

Talk of these speakers has sure died down since introduction.

I still really want to audition some, so I am surprised at the lack of recognition they get.

agree; the mainstream audio press/websites have not really connected yet to this speaker. but mine are sounding quite amazing and a number of my local friends have or are about to purchase them. i think the economy has slowed down much of the expensive speaker business. but for a couple of years they sold these as fast as they could make them.

regarding the $200,000 MM7's; the question was how to improve on the MM3's? what would it take? (i was one asking this)

the MM7's are the answer. what it retails for is another matter. i don't think they expect to sell many; it's more of a halo product and research direction. the MM3's designer also designed and did the production engineering on the Von Schweikert VR11SE, which started life as a 'cost no object' one-off for a particular client. so he has the background to do this.

i'm trying to figure out how i can do the MM7's....my room is perfect for them.
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post #161 of 177 Old 05-05-2009, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIkeDuke View Post

I have heard the MM2's once at my dealers place. Man did it sound great. To me anyway. Powerful and revealing in his system. I also heard the newer MMMini2 at T.H.E Show. I think that is $40,000. The One is probably around $30,000 but can be upgraded to the 2. That system sounded fantastic even under show conditions. There is info on the MM7 on their website. It looks like one of those systems that has the tweeter and woofer columns so it is a 4 piece system.
http://evolutionacoustics.com/mmseven.html

not so great a deal considering the MM3 was under 40k when initially released.
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post #162 of 177 Old 05-05-2009, 03:54 PM
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and the MMMini2 at 40k? It's a bookshelf on top of a sub.

i'm sorry, this company isn't going to sell many of those.
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post #163 of 177 Old 05-05-2009, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithR View Post

not so great a deal considering the MM3 was under 40k when initially released.

i think most people looking at the MM3's when they first came out were very impressed and surprised at the $38k introductory price...i know i was. Evolution Accoustics felt that the best advertising was to offer them at a price that would put them in as many homes as possible. the margins were very low as the cost to build a 73" tall, 575 pound speaker with a Baltic Birch sandwich construction (700+ layers) and twin powered 15" subs was substaintial.

i wrote at the time that the MM3's were as good as any other over $100k speaker system; except they only cost $38k. yes; their list price is now higher; more inline with the competition....but still with performance exceeding the speakers in that price range.

Quote:


and the MMMini2 at 40k? It's a bookshelf on top of a sub.

i'm sorry, this company isn't going to sell many of those.

if one looks at the MM Mini2 closely they are built and finished like the MM2's; and the cost to build them is nearly the same. if you listen to them i think you would agree on the performance. they use the same cabinet technology and drivers.

the competition in performance would be the Magico Mini 2 with an added subwoofer; or the Kharma Exquisite Mini's; both more dollars.

if you've heard the MM Mini2 i think you would agree with that. there are lots of cheaper speakers, or bigger speakers that cost less relatively. but better sounding for the same list price? no so sure about that.

one can always try to find a used set of MM3's.....that would be a fool proof approach if you have the room for them.
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post #164 of 177 Old 05-06-2009, 08:24 AM
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Quote:


one can always try to find a used set of MM3's.....that would be a fool proof approach if you have the room for them.

Good luck though finding someone selling a pair :-). I would love the MM3's but the MM2 probably fits my room a little better.

I was "this close" to some MM2's a few weeks ago after a few conversations with Jonathan, then "the banker" pulled the plug on the expenditure...
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post #165 of 177 Old 05-06-2009, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike lavigne View Post

i think most people looking at the MM3's when they first came out were very impressed and surprised at the $38k introductory price...i know i was. Evolution Accoustics felt that the best advertising was to offer them at a price that would put them in as many homes as possible. the margins were very low as the cost to build a 73" tall, 575 pound speaker with a Baltic Birch sandwich construction (700+ layers) and twin powered 15" subs was substaintial.

i wrote at the time that the MM3's were as good as any other over $100k speaker system; except they only cost $38k. yes; their list price is now higher; more inline with the competition....but still with performance exceeding the speakers in that price range.



if one looks at the MM Mini2 closely they are built and finished like the MM2's; and the cost to build them is nearly the same. if you listen to them i think you would agree on the performance. they use the same cabinet technology and drivers.

the competition in performance would be the Magico Mini 2 with an added subwoofer; or the Kharma Exquisite Mini's; both more dollars.

if you've heard the MM Mini2 i think you would agree with that. there are lots of cheaper speakers, or bigger speakers that cost less relatively. but better sounding for the same list price? no so sure about that.

one can always try to find a used set of MM3's.....that would be a fool proof approach if you have the room for them.

i would agree with that, used MM3s could fetch 35k and be a bargain for both buyer and seller

Mike- the problem with the Mini2 is that you have to compare it to Wilson Maxx2s, Revel Salons, or of the same ilk. while you may judge it arguably better, i just think its a tough sell. i though the Kharma 3.2 was the same way initially.

and the Magico Mini2 at 30k is a tough sell as well outside of Asia (where space is so limited). i mean, would you trade my Dynaudio C1s at 7500 list for a pair 4 times as much still with limited LFE? in the eye of the beholder i guess.

Mike- on another note, what do you think the best used speaker at around 10k is? I would require a 3 way floorstander.

Cheers,

Keith
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post #166 of 177 Old 05-07-2009, 08:04 AM
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It's kind of a shame that high-end companies can't produce 'value' product and survive. I think you can build a SOTA 5-way for under $30K that's as good as anything and sell it at a profit *if* people were willing to spend less to get more. Which they aren't.

John
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post #167 of 177 Old 05-07-2009, 02:47 PM
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i think the high end is in for a rude awakening this timely great recession around.

the days of 75k speakers are limited. people are looking for value in everything in their lives and odn' thave the credit that most of these large purchases were used with.

one thing that is value driven is DAC based music servers. these are relatively cheap to put together and blow 10k cdps out of the water.
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post #168 of 177 Old 05-07-2009, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
*if* people were willing to spend less to get more. Which they aren't.

I sure am.
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post #169 of 177 Old 05-11-2009, 09:27 AM
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Quote:


i think the high end is in for a rude awakening this timely great recession around.

the days of 75k speakers are limited. people are looking for value in everything in their lives and odn' thave the credit that most of these large purchases were used with.

Hi

Pricing has no direct relation to the cost of material... I can understand someone selling a product at whatever the market bears.. That is capitalism... It I am however hoping for the High End Audio to get back producing sensibly priced high performance products rather than the Audio equivalent of Jewelry... where value is based on a exclusivity or perception of such... Perhaps audiophiles will begin to demand (and accept) true performance rather than continue to assume superiority based on price alone... The Jump from 48 K to 200 K is to me a response to this trend... The MM7 could indeed be superior to the MM3 but all that I see is a MM3 with Ceramic woofers augmented by 2 subwoofer columns... this for $152,000 more? The mind boggles..

Frantz
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post #170 of 177 Old 05-11-2009, 10:47 AM
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Frantz:

The reason that these companies offer speakers that cost more than houses is because people are willing to buy them. Your analogy to jewelery is PERFECT. Some women want to "out do" other women and so they wear larger and/or shinier and/or gaudier and/or .... jewelery.

In fact, you can buy a 2.5 carat diamond that costs less than a 1.5 carat diamond but it "shows" better. The clarity, color, cut and quality are not as good but 99.9999% of observers would never know.

Some men to the EXACT same thing with "audio jewlerery". The $100,000 speaker may not sound as accurate as the $20,000 speaker, but it looks cooler, is larger and has appealing sonic inaccuracies that appeal to the casual listener.
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post #171 of 177 Old 05-11-2009, 12:10 PM
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As to what Frantz says, most companies simply find things to do to make the cost higher. Hand winding things. Hand rubbing things. Hiring someone just to stand there and watch a machine do things flawlessly. Then they talk at length about how expensive the product is to build because all of the time and 'love' that went into it, rather than do what every other business model does, which is figure out how to build and sell the same quality for less.

John
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post #172 of 177 Old 05-11-2009, 03:08 PM
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the best example i have ever heard was from the winemaker at Hietz cellars in the late 60's. every time their wine sold out, they doubled the price for the next year. when it no longer sold out... then they had it right.

And those who wanted to buy assume that more expensive is better.

With Evolution, it seemed like what they had was really low in price when mike was talking about it. now they have corrected.

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post #173 of 177 Old 05-11-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzman View Post

the best example i have ever heard was from the winemaker at Hietz cellars in the late 60's. every time their wine sold out, they doubled the price for the next year. when it no longer sold out... then they had it right.

And those who wanted to buy assume that more expensive is better.

With Evolution, it seemed like what they had was really low in price when mike was talking about it. now they have corrected.



What's the current MSRP on the MM3?

Frantz
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post #174 of 177 Old 05-11-2009, 04:24 PM
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Frantz, I can tell you the current price of Heitz. Does that count?
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post #175 of 177 Old 05-11-2009, 04:39 PM
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Frantz, I can tell you the current price of Heitz. Does that count?



NO!!

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post #176 of 177 Old 06-02-2009, 06:43 PM
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I Have a Request of anybody in the Portland Oregon area.
I sure would like to audition a pair of MM2 or 3. 3's preferably.
I sure would appreciate it. I would be interested in purchasing the MM3 down the road but it seem that unless you are going to buy on the spot they are not interested in you.

As a way I could show my appreciation I do have a vast collection of DCC Gold's and other special discs, and I could make copies for you. I am a very nice person, at least I think so. Give me a call or respond to this message 5037506749.
Thank you in advance
Douglas C.
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post #177 of 177 Old 06-18-2009, 07:01 PM
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Doug,

Why don't you contact Evolution Acoustics aka J. Tinn as he is in Portland. He could probably arrange something for you to audition.
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