PS Audio Power Plant Premier Ongoing Review Thread!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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You newbies don't know this, and you oldies don't recall this. But back in 1999, I posted a review on the then brand new PS Audio Power Plant 300 AC regenerator, and as a result, by popular demand, I was forced into moderating the then brand new Tweaks forum here at AVS. I started a Special Guest feature of that forum which then resulted in another forum which I moderated, the AVS Special Guests forum. I've been retired from moderating the past few years, and certainly enjoy not having to deal for free with irate, difficult posters. HA!
Just a bit of history. That initial review was even quoted by PS Audio in their firtst Stereophile ads for the P300.

I initially used to PS Audio P300s in my home theater system - then bye bye P300s for two P600s. I was using two P600s, which were Bybee modded with multiple Bybee filters on AC inputs and outputs. One P600 was for front end components (excluding amps and sub amps). The second P600 was for my Dwin HD-700 CRT projector, Lumagen VisionPro HDP video processor/scaler and Extron video switcher. I used the 60 Hz sinewave on the first P600 as for audio I couldn't hear an improvement using any of the multiwaves. I used the P1 Multiwave square wave on the 2nd Pp600 as it clearly gave a better video picture.

Now, almost 7 years later, PS Audio has come out with its new Power Plant Premier (PPP), replacing all of their prior Power Plants which are now discontinued but still loved.

My first Power Plant Premier arrived Friday. I got it in that day. Here's my initial comments:

On Friday by mid afternoon I installed the PPP, replacing both of my P600s. I installed it in a 20 amp, 10 guage wire circuit; using a PS Audio Soloist; then an external Bybee AC charger; then the PPP.

Thanks to the PPP's 5 isolated zones, I plugged my Theta Casablanca 3 surround processor into one zone and its Theta Six Shooter analog multi-channel preamp into another zone, isolating them from each other!!!!

After about five hours burn-in: Initially, it really sucked big time, no dynamics or microdynamics, bass was dull and lifeless.

I was wondering - Gee, did Paul use Class D amps in this thing, is that why it sucks? But then I read the PS Audio website that Paul kept the Class AB amps, just that PS Audio found a way to lower the large power supply voltages so the amp was efficient 85%, by moving the entire power supply up and down in lock step with the sine wave generator, so the voltage across the amp is only what is needed, thus increasing the efficiency.

Let it burn in while sleeping. After waking up, after ten hours burn-in - WOW! Never sounded this good, particularly voices. Multi-channel SACD is clearly its best ever, bass, highs. If I turn it up somewhat louder than normal listening levels, its not quite as smooth as before, somewhat straining, but my experience is that with more burn-in this will be alleviated.

My good friend Lon came over. He's very familiar with my system. Took him all of a few seconds to hear the improvement. Note this model only has one Multiwave - which I understand is the square wave - and the one 60 Hz sinewave mode. I don't know that it sounds better than my P600s using the 60 Hz sinewave mode. But the multiwave mode is a clear sonic improvement - immediately discernable.

I am running all of my components (except amplifiers) off this unit now - and selling the two P600s. The top of the unit is hardly even a bit warm. Amazing.

Video looks just as good as before. But so far, haven't notice any difference using the 60 Hz sinewave vs multiwave. Looks the same. Which is fine, as its just as good as before. And as audio is clearly even better using Multiwave, I find myself using Multiwave always.

The product is simply amazing. And the prior barriers to many folks considering the Power Plant, Size, inefficiency, limited power capability and heat, are now a thing of the past. Amazing, Amazing, Amazing. And of course the $2,295 retail price for this is Amazing, Amazing, Amazing!!!

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #2 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Folks who wan't to rail against power conditioners - please post in that thread, not in this one. Thanks.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #3 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 12:19 PM
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While Power Conditioner may be a good thing in some cases. Your review is bogus. Hello what changed over night in the burn in? YOUR EARS. How can people be so fooled? Please in this AV Science forum show us some.

Please post your bogus reviews on the PSAudio website.
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post #4 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 01:22 PM
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I'm not against power conditioners but I do think it's important to realize the damage that can be caused by this "multiwave" stuff into inductive loads. An inductive load is a 60hz power transformer or an AC induction motor, the later being unlikely in an HT setup. But many small high quality analog audio devices as well as almost all power amps use a 60hz power transformer. Running them on anything other than a 60hz sinewave can cause internal overheating. Now if PS Audio want's to re-generate a low distortion 60hz sine wave, that's great. But anything else is of questionable safety.

Now line operated switch mode power supplies could care less what type of waveform they are fed as long as the duty cycle is of sufficient RMS value and in fact can even run on pure DC. But as they produce somewhat dirty power to begin with (ripple typically > 100mv), I can't see what benefit multiwwave power provides.

If PS Audio warns of this, then fine. If they don't, it's pretty irresponsible to market such a device. BTW, is the PS Audio unit UL listed?

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post #5 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 01:27 PM
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Steve, I looked at this product too. But it only supports up to 1,500 watts. I am not sure how it is going to work with 7 channels of power amp.

How big is the transformer? Or does it use switching power supply?
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post #6 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 03:03 PM
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Thanks for the review Steve. I hope to have my two PPP in two weeks.
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post #7 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vett93 View Post

Steve, I looked at this product too. But it only supports up to 1,500 watts. I am not sure how it is going to work with 7 channels of power amp.

How big is the transformer? Or does it use switching power supply?

I don't use it for any amps or sub amps. Mine are too powerful. Might work with some low power tube amps fine, but I haven't tried. Does work well with my CRT projector.

For more info, go to the www.psaudio.com website.

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post #8 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I don't use it for any amps or sub amps. Mine are too powerful. Might work with some low power tube amps fine, but I haven't tried. Does work well with my CRT projector.

For more info, go to the www.psaudio.com website.

Steve, I am not one of the anti-power conditioner bigots, but I am a skeptic. I subscribe to the PS newsletter and read all that he puts out, but I still cannot understand these calims of improvements in video systems. What kind of projector do you use and what type of power supply does it use. I suspect it is a SMPS. Are you aware of how they work? Are you aware of how much more noise the convertor itself generates and how difficult it is for power line distortions to pass through the filtering, conversion, filtering, then further regulation, and more filtering that is found in these types of supplies? How does the power affect the secondaries? I have been evaluating power conditioners for years. In fact, the dealer that I once worked for was one of the first PS Audio dealers and I have followed those guys work for years. I have to say, however, that I cannot confirm the claims with any measurements that I have made. Where are the data for video improvement? The claims are at times spectacular. I remain open minded, but there has to be some rational explanation to make this stuff make sense. Where is it?

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

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post #9 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Steve, I am not one of the anti-power conditioner bigots, but I am a skeptic. I subscribe to the PS newsletter and read all that he puts out, but I still cannot understand these calims of improvements in video systems. What kind of projector do you use and what type of power supply does it use. I suspect it is a SMPS. Are you aware of how they work? Are you aware of how much more noise the convertor itself generates and how difficult it is for power line distortions to pass through the filtering, conversion, filtering, then further regulation, and more filtering that is found in these types of supplies? How does the power affect the secondaries? I have been evaluating power conditioners for years. In fact, the dealer that I once worked for was one of the first PS Audio dealers and I have followed those guys work for years. I have to say, however, that I cannot confirm the claims with any measurements that I have made. Where are the data for video improvement? The claims are at times spectacular. I remain open minded, but there has to be some rational explanation to make this stuff make sense. Where is it?

One of the best video dudes in the country,John Gannon, has seen the positive effect of using the PS Audio Power Plant in my system, as he setup and ISFed my system. So that's that.

Being skeptic is healthy. No problem. There's lotsa stuff I haven't even tried due to skepticism and/or cost.

I have a Dwin HD-700 CRT projector with color filtered lens. And Mike Parker, 9" Electrohome CRT modder deluxe, and Gannon have remarked how did my picture ever look so good, that no other little Dwin ever looked so good.

I think PS Audio has a 30 day return policy - so if you try it, and it's not worth the $$ to you, return it.

Believe me, after my first listening session, I was ready to return it. But I know from experience break-in can make a difference, I just didn't expect break-in to occur so quickly. At least enough break-in to warrant keeping the unit.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #10 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Prior reviews of Power Plant models which also discuss objective science:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...plant-300.html

http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11...or-9-2004.html

There's plenty more reviews.

The prior Power Plant models were only 50% efficient, generated plenty of heat, had limited power, and were not for everyone. The new Premier doesn't have those problems - but you still clearly don't want to drive a high power amp with it as far as I am concerned.

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post #11 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

One of the best video dudes in the country,John Gannon, has seen the positive effect of using the PS Audio Power Plant in my system, as he setup and ISFed my system. So that's that.

That's that? and we are supposed to take this all seriously. Someone who calibrated your system and told you how great it was...come on. Are you not even interested in how or why you might see improvements? I can see what gets the antis and PC bigots in a lather if this stuff is the bet you can come up with.

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

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post #12 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 04:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

That's that? and we are supposed to take this all seriously. Someone who calibrated your system and told you how great it was...come on. Are you not even interested in how or why you might see improvements? I can see what gets the antis and PC bigots in a lather if this stuff is the bet you can come up with.

At the first post in this thread I asked"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

Folks who wan't to rail against power conditioners - please post in that thread, not in this one. Thanks.

Please take an English class and learn how to read. And go to etiquitte school.
And don't disguise your real agenda. I nicely asked folks to do their "railing" in the other thread in this forum re "railing against power conditioners" so please do so. I will now put you on my ignore list so whatever you say is ignored.

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post #13 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I nicely asked folks to do their "railing" in the other thread in this forum re "railing against power conditioners" so please do so. I will now put you on my ignore list so whatever you say is ignored.

You must be a mod then since you can tell people where to post?
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post #14 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 05:09 PM
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I am not railing against power conditioners. I am simply asking for something more than "my ISF guy said it is great" as an explanation of what is going on. I use a power conditioner on my bench and have seen many times that it cleans up noise on the a.c. line. I have even stated many times that I have used them in sytems to clear up noise that I otherwise could not get rid of. But this was in audio systems with conventional fower supplies. I have tried many times to see line noise on the secondary supplies that feed video and other circuits in systems using SMPSs, but have not been able to find it. I also calibrate systems and have not been able to discern any improvement in any video due to a power conditioner. Still, I hear claims of great improvements. I don't deny that you and others experience them, but I do ask for some rational explanation of what is going on. You offer a review. I ask some seemingly obvious questions regarding how this technology accomplishes these results. Is that inappropriate? Isn't this called AV Science forum? I am an open minded industry professional who has some valid questions. Are you unwilling to address them? I have posed the same questions in several places and received not a single response explaining what is going on. Why is that?

Yes, calibration is important...every user should be calibrated.

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post #15 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 05:48 PM
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Steve

I believe in Power Conditioning . I have first hand experience of how Power Quality affects computer systems and of course Audio video gears. I could well be the person on this forum who has taken the most extreme measure of power conditioning. The AC fed to both my audio (High-End) and Video (Mid-High-End) is from a Telecom grade low distortion (THD<2% under full load, <.5% under half load).
I also live in a country where Power , not just Quality but its Availability (less than 8 hours a day) is a serious and crippling issue. People in here and in other countries where Electrical power is not available, have taken the route of generators and AC/DC Charger/Inverter usually known as Inverters, one of the most popular brand in my region is Xantrex www.xantrex.com They make "True" sinewave (their better models ), "modified" sine wave. middle of the line and square wave (entry level, low end) inverters. First hand experience and one ANY person who has ever used these inverters will tell you. The "Square wave" inverters on anything electronic introduces buzz... No audiophile ears needed, the buzz is so noticeable that even incandescent lamps buzz sometimes rather loudly, electric fans buzz (and have their lifespan severely affected as are most electric motors and usually home electronics), the modified sine waves induce less sever but still very noticeable buzz. Why would PS Audio, feed your system with the worst waveform for electrical current: the Square wave? It can not make any improvement if indeed it is a square wave... Inductive load, the very transformer in most if not ALL power supplies will buzz audibly and the filtering circuits in most power supplies do not do a very god job filtering these either, they just pass many of these harmonics and you hear the buzz in the speakers from High End system to the cheapest Emerson Radio.. they audibly buzz at the transformer level and through the speakers...
This said , I do nto know how the other modes would work. I understand that PS Audio make a product which double the frequency in other words they feed your system 120 rather than 60 Hz... I have not tried them so I do not know but it seems odd to me to raise the frequency thus having the transformer presenting an increased impedance to the current, I am not sure this is the right thing to do.
What I have been advocating in this very forum is to use Telecom grade double conversion power systems, they cost often less than, the Audiophile Power conditioners while truly protecting and presenting the best possible AC Current to your beloved electronics. They do not mind that you plug your highest power amplifier, mine for example will only start presenting a THD 0f 3% at 15 Kwatts, ,while still maintaining the Voltage to 120 Volt +/- 5% at 15 KW on ANY load, resistive or a combination resistive, inductive and capacitive. Something the Audiophile models cannot do, I do not ANY Audiophile power conditioner able to deliver 5 KW with such specs, NOT ONE! How much for such a system complete with batteries? Less than $5,000...

Frantz
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post #16 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 05:53 PM
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Quote:


At the first post in this thread I asked"

Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky
Folks who wan't to rail against power conditioners - please post in that thread, not in this one. Thanks.

Wow!

Then should we write in the very specific thread you open for believers or objectivists in turn?
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post #17 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 07:05 PM
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Hehehehe...I can only imagine the line the senoritas south of the border give Steve

"I've found that when you want to know the truth about someone that someone is probably the last person you should ask." - Gregory House
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post #18 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 07:20 PM
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My Premier is coming in a month, it costs $3700 in Sweden. I'm only getting it for the CleanWave function for my computer, CleanWave is that good. I used to use a 2nd P300 with a 40cm table fan cooling it but electricity bill was too much. You can see video of the fan here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2wbMzUBAxQ

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post #19 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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The only buzz crap is here from some of you. I have never had any buzz in my home theater from using Multiwave, and I've had numerous folks I've met at AVS over to demo over the years and no one's heard the buzz you here.

Frantz, I both like and respect you and your intelligent discourse and questions.
I am not the ultimate technophobie and don't have the answer for you, other than to say you must know quite as much as you think or my theater, lights, fan, etc. would be abuzz, and it ain't. And as I've said before, I don't use the Power Plants for my amps or sub amps - they go straight into dedicated 20 amp circuit outlets in the wall.

Thanks.

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post #20 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 10:49 PM
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Steve, could you plse comment on the following:-

1. How much watts did your two P600's drew before, respectively?
2. How much heat did they generate, ie - could you keep your palm on the lid for a long time?
3. And when you hooked your equipment up to the PPP - did the fan ever come on?

With regard to Power Amps on the Power Plants:- I used to have a Proceed HPA 3-channel amp (250x3) on a P600, along with an AVP and a PMDT. The P600 used to work quite well with this setup, and I could comfortably keep my hand on the P600 lid for extended periods of time. Later on I had a Bryston 300watts x 2, and that also worked fine. While I wouldn't describe the above power amps as very powerfull, well - I think they'd at least pass for "mid-powered". So there are many instances where the P600 and P1000 work quite well on even some bigger power amps.

One thing I can say: The P600/1000 was never happy to run at even only 50% of their capacity. With the P1000, for example, the heat generated was already enormous even with just 500 watts drawn (export 230V model). I found that the P1000 works best with 380-400 watts drawn, max. However, it is surprising how many components you can hook up with only 380-400 watts being drawn ...

But the bottom line, which I sense you're saying, I fully agree with:- The Power Plants like LOTS of headroom.

I must say that I'm also having a hard time with the "ppp burn-in". It must be remembered that all the PPP is providing to your units, is CLEAN POWER. I have a hard time understanding how burn-in on a power plant could have such a huge effect on a system, to vary between "it sucks" and "a huge improvement". May I suggest that, perhaps, the components had in the meantime cooled down. It sounds a lot more plausible to me, that more than 5 hours might be requied for a system to reach optimum performance again.
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post #21 of 177 Old 12-31-2006, 10:50 PM
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Steve

Chill.. I am simply sharing my experience with you... I you feed Square wave AC to most electronics they buzz.. I do not know what PS Audio calls multiwave but it is certainly not a square wave or you would hear a buzzing sound coming from your electronics.. I do not know your system and I never professed to.. I am simply skeptical that the multiwave setting produces a square wave.
I have also posted somewhere in the forum that dedicated lines are not the cure-all people think... I will not go over this again...
Happy New Year!!

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post #22 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plcomp View Post

I must say that I'm also having a hard time with the "ppp burn-in". It must be remembered that all the PPP is providing to your units, is CLEAN POWER. I have a hard time understanding how burn-in on a power plant could have such a huge effect on a system, to vary between "it sucks" and "a huge improvement". May I suggest that, perhaps, the components had in the meantime cooled down. It sounds a lot more plausible to me, that more than 5 hours might be requied for a system to reach optimum performance again.

Everytime I turn off the system for a few hours it takes a long time for it to sound like before. When I turned it off for a day it took 1-2 weeks to get it back. I tried it again yesterday and my system sounds like crap now.

Everytime I unplugged interconnects it took 5 hours until the edginess was reduced so that my system was listenable again. Beyond 5 hours of burn-in the differences were small.


When I received my PS Audio GCC-100 amp I didn't hear a difference in burn-in, at least not the huge difference as others decribed. When I got my DAC, CD player, cables etc. I heard the burn-in the first few hours, but after that I didn't hear further improvements, it was disappointing because I was expecting more based on what others had said.

Burn-in with new gear usually lasts a few hours for me, why does it take few hours for me and a month for others? I believe it's mostly getting used to the new sound, some adjust to the sound faster than others, especially pro athletes. Or then I just have crappy ears and can't hear subtle differences. But I do hear a difference in ambient temperature while others don't, so it doesn't make sense. I hear a difference in blind tests too while others fail.

Long ago I got a new piece of equipment and listened an hour or so, I went to bed but didn't leave the system burning in. Next day I had adjusted to the sound and it sounded better. My brain adjusted to the sound while sleeping!
This is true with pro sports as well, the athletes do the adjustments and practice half asleep in their bed.
When someone gets a new piece of audio gear they are thinking about it when going to bed, it leaking into their dreams can't be avoided.

When someone installs a new piece of gear they get fatigued when bending behind the rack etc. This will be the main reason for flawed first impressions.
If they have been tweaking the system for 16 hours straight they are very fatigued. When I listened to my system right away it sounded very smooth because my body was relaxed, but next day the bass was too tight and gave me a headache. There are many variables you need to take into consideration, otherwise the impressions will be flawed.

What I do now is I let the system burn in a few hours before I take my first listen. I compensate for all the variables and always write my impressions down into my logs (I have many megabytes), that's how I can compare it to previous upgrades and variations. I NEVER trust my first impressions, they will always be flawed. Instead I wait 2 weeks to decide what the improvements were in the upgrade. This also reduces placebo effect of new gear and the smell of it. The smell changes how you perceive the sound. After 2 weeks you have adjusted to the smell and sound and then you hear the truth. However, it's hard to compare to your previous gear from memory, but I never had that problem, I can remember 10 years ago like yesterday. I believe all audiophiles have a good memory.

Truth always wins in the end.

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post #23 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by plcomp View Post

Steve, could you plse comment on the following:-

1. How much watts did your two P600's drew before, respectively?
2. How much heat did they generate, ie - could you keep your palm on the lid for a long time?

One thing I can say: The P600/1000 was never happy to run at even only 50% of their capacity.

But the bottom line, which I sense you're saying, I fully agree with:- The Power Plants like LOTS of headroom.

I must say that I'm also having a hard time with the "ppp burn-in".

A few comments:

My P600s never ran even half capacity. I used P1 square wave for the P600 for my Dwin CRT projector and video/scaler switcher + processors as that gave me the best picture - I had tried a P300 but at first the picture looked real good and then it deteriorated, I assume that the P300 was simply be strained. Never had that happen with the P600. I used the other P600 on Sinewave for front end non-amp components which would draw maybe 200 to 300 watts at most, again under half capacity. They were not real hot, but uncomfortably warm to keep one's palm on them for more than a tad.

As for the initial burn-in: When I first got them, they arrived that day, it had been not quite freezing in Az the night before, and the PPP was still cold to touch. That could well have exacerbated and contributed to the "lifeless" sound I initially heard when I demod even five hours after install.

As for belief or disbelief re burn-in, I am comfortable knowing what I hear in my system and its something I have experienced more so with power conditioner and power cords than anything else. I've also experienced it with Theta gear. Theta even tells you that their gear will break-in and sound better over about 200 - 300 hours and that is my subjective experience as well.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #24 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by FrantzM View Post

Steve

Chill.. I am simply sharing my experience with you... I you feed Square wave AC to most electronics they buzz.. I do not know what PS Audio calls multiwave but it is certainly not a square wave or you would hear a buzzing sound coming from your electronics.. I do not know your system and I never professed to.. I am simply skeptical that the multiwave setting produces a square wave.
I have also posted somewhere in the forum that dedicated lines are not the cure-all people think... I will not go over this again...
Happy New Year!!

And Frantz, I certainly respect and appreciate your experience, as I think you respect mine.

And you are probably right, although I am saying "square wave", its not really perfectly square so I have likely been using a misnomer. Here's a quote from the PS Audio website re the Multiwave"

"(One) of the many features unique to Power Plants are their ability to produce different waveforms. Unlike a power conditioner that simply filters, Power Plants can produce perfect sine waves as well as modified sine waves.

MultiWaves were first introduced nearly five years ago. Invented by our good friend and Northrop Grumman engineer, Doug Goldberg, MultiWave revolutionized the AC power conditioning industry. Instead of the classic sine wave, there can be advantages to connected power supplies by changing some of the sine waves parameters.

Of all the MultiWave choices we have lived with over the years, the most consistent winner was MultiWave 1. This waveform, used in every version of MultiWave as well as AutoWave extends the charging time of the sine wave peak so attached power supplies have less ripple. In the Premier, we decided easy-was-better and offered one choice for MultiWave instead of many. To our ears, this is the clear winner."

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #25 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 08:25 AM
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O.K. Steve, thanks. I guess that's what I wanted to hear. Two P600's, uncomfortably warm if you keep your hand on them for more than a tad ... then, with the single PPP and the same equipment hooked on - very little to no heat. With the same equipment on a P1000, you probably would've been (almost) able to bake an egg on the lid.

It's the fan issue that's bothering me ....
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post #26 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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O.K. Steve, thanks. I guess that's what I wanted to hear. Two P600's, uncomfortably warm if you keep your hand on them for more than a tad ... then, with the single PPP and the same equipment hooked on - very little to no heat. With the same equipment on a P1000, you probably would've been (almost) able to bake an egg on the lid.

It's the fan issue that's bothering me ....

My room is dead quiet. But I never had the P600 fan bother me. I once had a Dish 6000 fan that sure did.

And I don't hear any fan noise with the PPP - the fan probably doesn't come on with my load.

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #27 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 10:26 AM
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[quote=ValhallaPC]
Long ago I got a new piece of equipment and listened an hour or so, I went to bed but didn't leave the system burning in. Next day I had adjusted to the sound and it sounded better. My brain adjusted to the sound while sleeping!
This is true with pro sports as well, the athletes do the adjustments and practice half asleep in their bed.
When someone gets a new piece of audio gear they are thinking about it when going to bed, it leaking into their dreams can't be avoided.
QUOTE]


WOW, now that really proves you have some audio and scientific creds.

No wonder my system sounds like crap today I wasnt thinking about it last night. It couldnt have been that I was drunk and that the booze had any effect on my ears. No that couldnt be it.
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post #28 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

MultiWaves were first introduced nearly five years ago. Invented by our good friend and Northrop Grumman engineer, Doug Goldberg, MultiWave revolutionized the AC power conditioning industry. Instead of the classic sine wave, there can be advantages to connected power supplies by changing some of the sine waves parameters.

Well I don't know Mr. Goldberg but I have to ask if his invention was for the audiophile industry? I'll bet not. Like most of these aerospace references audiophile companies use, the truth is much more complex. Perhaps Mr. Goldberg was working on some skunk works project where "multiwave" AC power was a requirement. Obviously the project was cancelled or otherwise declassified and the research made public. So along comes an audiophile company and takes a highly specialized application and applies it to an industry product for which is has no benefit other than to generate profits from the well financed but engineering ignorant community.

Fact: If you change from the standard sinewave, you change the peak value. A square wave for example is 170v, no longer 120v. I won't get into the calculus here but a square is 100% energy, the sinewave has "areas" where there is less than 100% power being generated. The net result is you are overpowering your gear. Now if it has a switch mode power supply, it doesn't matter. But a 60hz power transformer won't like the extra voltage. Not to mention the magnetic theory problems these "distorted waveforms" cause. Yes, "multiwave" is adding distortion to an otherwise near perfect sinewave.

I find it comical that PS preaches the horrors of distorted AC sinewaves and to some extent they are quite correct. It's not as bad as they claim but nevertheless it's not good either and can cause interfeirence in AV gear. But then they they turn around and add their own blend of distortion back in and call it "multiwave".

Why can't they just produce a clean AC sine wave and be done with it? I'll tell you why, because then they have nothing more than an on-line true sinewave UPS unit I can buy in the computer market for half the cost!

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post #29 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ValhallaPC View Post

When someone installs a new piece of gear they get fatigued when bending behind the rack etc. This will be the main reason for flawed first impressions.
If they have been tweaking the system for 16 hours straight they are very fatigued. When I listened to my system right away it sounded very smooth because my body was relaxed, but next day the bass was too tight and gave me a headache. There are many variables you need to take into consideration, otherwise the impressions will be flawed.

.

Now that is correct EAR fatigue, thats what changes your ears not the gear burning in. Are you mad, sad,glad, stuffy, tired awake? Those things effect the ears, not a non living object burning in.
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post #30 of 177 Old 01-01-2007, 10:30 AM
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[quote=speco2003]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValhallaPC View Post


This is true with pro sports as well, the athletes do the adjustments and practice half asleep in their bed.

If the above statement is anywhere near true, do you have any scientific proof that javelin throwers and pole vaulters have more offspring than average?


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