Better late than never: My CES report: - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 96 Old 01-15-2007, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.curtpalme.com/CES2007_page1.shtm

Enjoy! Flame suit on!


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post #2 of 96 Old 01-15-2007, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

http://www.curtpalme.com/CES2007_page1.shtm

Enjoy! Flame suit on!

Suhweeeeeeet!

-Chris B.



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post #3 of 96 Old 01-15-2007, 09:10 PM
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Good one Curt thanks. You too missed the elusive Onkyo Receiver that was loaded with goodies in the THX Neural booth, and HDMI booth, I have never seen a more advanced dsp processing suite in any receiver, neural surround claims to outperform DPL2 in recreating 5.1 discrete surround from any source, it had the audissey too. It has like 5 HDMI 1.3 ins and 2 outs, the unit does not have a model number.

If any one has a picture of this elusive piece, i'll give them $5.


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post #4 of 96 Old 01-15-2007, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Good one Curt thanks. You too missed the elusive Onkyo Receiver that was loaded with goodies in the THX Neural booth, and HDMI booth, I have never seen a more advanced dsp processing suite in any receiver, neural surround claims to outperform DPL2 in recreating 5.1 discrete surround from any source, it had the audissey too. It has like 5 HDMI 1.3 ins and 2 outs, the unit does not have a model number.

If any one has a picture of this elusive piece, i'll give them $5.

I think you are referring to the TX-NR900.
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post #5 of 96 Old 01-15-2007, 10:33 PM
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No this is the latest thing with not even a part number yet. It's in between the 804 and the giant card based unit in size. It has a new neural surround dsp engine that recreates discrete sounds from any source noit just xm neural. it has rs-232 audissey eq, 5 hdmi 1.3 ins 2 out. It is an awesomely featured receiver.


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post #6 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 05:09 AM
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Well done, Curt, worth the wait. I enjoyed the radio show too

Michael
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post #7 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 07:04 AM
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Thanks Curt.
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post #8 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 11:06 AM
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Fantastic Coverage Curt!
I feel like I was there.

Next projector will have LEDs, >=1080 res, >=10 bit color, >14bit CR, >9 bit ANSI CR, >=120Hz, >16ft.L on 12ft 2.35:1 screen, <$12bit price


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post #9 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 05:16 PM
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Excellent coverage Curt.

I too had the privilege of sitting through the "Tesla Theory" speaker cable demo. There were two others in the room who expressed wonder at the "expanded soundstage and better highs, etc., etc.". When they asked me, I said that if there were any difference, it was so subtle that a better controlled A-B test needed to be done. I made no pretense to be a great audiophile, even though my home audio equipment is among some of the best.

They appeared disgusted with my remarks, at which time my wife and I left while they were spouting more Tesla theory. I almost thought it was a joke and the other two were a part of the game.

Thanks for your good info.

Sid

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post #10 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Sid, what was the name of that company? PM me if you don't want it to be public.





I do...


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post #11 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 07:34 PM
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Sid PM me as well or go public. These people need to be exposed for the frauds they are. It is just sick what these guys get away with. I for one am not shy about taking them on.
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post #12 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 09:18 PM
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Thanks a lot Curt.
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post #13 of 96 Old 01-16-2007, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speco2003 View Post

Sid PM me as well or go public. These people need to be exposed for the frauds they are. It is just sick what these guys get away with. I for one am not shy about taking them on.

I'm willing to go public on these people.
They are commonly known as Synergistic Research and their cables have been receiving high acclaim from reviewers and listeners alike for years. Their cables are up there with Audioquest, Nordost, Tara, Granite, and several others at the top of the cable game. Besides specific geometry and silver alloys they use an active shield that carries a 28 VDC field surrounding all their top cables. While I don't know about 0 capacitance I do know that the cables reduce RFI & EMI and create a much higher current field than Audioquest DBS can with their batteries.
I've heard this demo many times at several shows and IMHO they expand the soundstage in both depth and width and sweeten the sound when the active shield is turned on.
I think most members on this 20K forum would agree that cables do make a difference so why is this theory debunked. It would seem that a shield against outside interference of this strength is likely to do something positive, and the new Tesla Line is cheaper than their previous X2 Line. We seldom see reductions in cable costs as new improvements are developed. My ears tell me Synergistic is to be applauded for this advancement which is accompanied by a price reduction. Let the cable naysayers populate the lesser Forums. I think we know good cable makes a difference.
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post #14 of 96 Old 01-17-2007, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I did hear it in person and heard NO difference. I'm still a skeptic.

Their demo was flawed in so many ways it wasn't funny.


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post #15 of 96 Old 01-17-2007, 08:18 AM
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I'm not going to get into the whole cable argument. That's a topic for (yet another) thread.

I do agree with Curt's statement that the Synergistic demo was highly flawed. When I was by, they were running a delicate passage with no shielding, then stopped right before a bombastic passage and turned the shielding on and commented how much better the soundstaging was.

You don't run a demo that way... I walked out. I was there to hear the new Thiel's which sounded fantastic driven by the Bryston gear BTW.

Cheers,

Contributing Editor & Surround Music Reviewer
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post #16 of 96 Old 01-17-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyree91 View Post

I think we know good cable makes a difference.

watch the 'we' part. it's far from unanimous.

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post #17 of 96 Old 01-17-2007, 10:46 AM
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WE know that cable makes a difference. WE also know that tthere is lots of snake oil sales that convince people to buy things that do nothing. WE also know that the laws of physics are LAWS, they are not the general guidelines of physics. And if you claim to violate those laws, then there is a problem.

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Ob was the delivery doc.

Since i cannot rant on a soapbox in the town square...

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post #18 of 96 Old 01-17-2007, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI: Bryston's response to my query as to why they'd share a booth with snake oil salesmen:

The show room was Theil's and they choose the cable company. I still consider exotic cables to be more marketing than science but we had no say in the other partners chosen.


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post #19 of 96 Old 01-17-2007, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

FYI: Bryston's response to my query as to why they'd share a booth with snake oil salesmen:

The show room was Theil's and they choose the cable company. I still consider exotic cables to be more marketing than science but we had no say in the other partners chosen.

You are at CES. CES is a venue for the companies to convince you that their product IS the best and they will use any method to do so. Lying or strecthing the truth has always been a reliable form of marketing. I wouldn't expect too much facts from CES, just the ones I can make on my own.

-Chris B.



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post #20 of 96 Old 01-17-2007, 06:34 PM
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I'm also sick of hearing marketing bs from firms hawking stupid cable, but that's the world we live in. People pay thousands to have Feng Shui specialists come into their homes to rearrange the furniture. It's actually kind of frightening to think of how much of our economy is produced by total bs.
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post #21 of 96 Old 01-18-2007, 03:20 PM
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great report! Thanks for all the pics!
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post #22 of 96 Old 01-18-2007, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim916 View Post

People pay thousands to have Feng Shui specialists come into their homes to rearrange the furniture.

Ya know, you might be onto something. 5.1 with LCR and rear speakers? Bah!

Subwoofers? In the wrong location completely.

Perhaps someone familar with Feng Shui can recommend the proper layout for an A/V system so that it brings more melodious sounds to the room?

All 5 speakers in a straight line maybe? Two subwoofers to balance the room. The projector pointing at a 45 degree angle to the screeen?

Valhalla, I'd like a report by the morning!


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post #23 of 96 Old 01-18-2007, 04:45 PM
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If Feng shui is important to your raison d'etre, then buy a plasma with a silver frame, never a plasma with a black frame. The plasma isthe fire, you use meatl to reflect the fire around your space, never ever put water (black) on fire.


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post #24 of 96 Old 01-18-2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

If Feng shui is important to your raison d'etre, then buy a plasma with a silver frame, never a plasma with a black frame. The plasma is the fire, you use metal to reflect the fire around your space, never ever put water (black) on fire.

This was from the Fengshui expert that visited Grove Plasma in 2002.


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post #25 of 96 Old 01-18-2007, 04:49 PM
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Now we are getting somewhere.
It is possible that Feng Shuii people know more about this than the demo salespeople(marketeers!)
I seem to remember Clark built an A/B/X comparator box that exposes all this nonsense.

Ron
"Your priorities will be different-its the weighting that counts!-only if its done by FET!"

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post #26 of 96 Old 01-18-2007, 07:06 PM
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I favor the day it all goes wireless with active speakers (digital amps) and you no longer need all the cables. No doubt when that happens with a quality system no one will be able to tell the diference in a blind test.

The cable guys need to get the "Money " while they can. Time is running out.

_______________
Chuck
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post #27 of 96 Old 01-18-2007, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chhelo View Post

I favor the day it all goes wireless with active speakers (digital amps) and you no longer need all the cables.
_______________
Chuck

We're pretty much there now. See the pix of the 1080i video via AC wiring on my CES report.

Regardless though, there's always some quality loss via wireless. If nothing else, interference from the zillions of transmitters out there as it is now anyways. Heck, even my Bluetooth refused to work on the CES show floor due to interference. I had to go outside after about 10 dropped calls...

Besides, we can't put all the qualified installers that can fish wires through finished homes, can we? There's a real art in that. Gawd knows I know, 'cause I can't do it...



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post #28 of 96 Old 01-19-2007, 02:05 PM
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This discussion reminds me of a high-end cable demonstration I saw at CES a few years ago where they had 3 separate shielded conductors, which they said conducted low, medium and high frequency ranges separately. An engineer in the audience asked them if they considered 60 Hz to be in the low frequency range and they said yes. He then asked them if they were absolutely certain that the low frequency music would not be transmitted through either the medium or high frequency parts of the cable and they said yes. He then said, "OK, I'll just connect this high frequency part of your cable to the 60Hz wall plug and you put the other end on your tongue." As you would expect, they did not take his offer.

An interesting test of high end cables can be read here: http://www.avahifi.com/root/audio_ba..._challenge.htm
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post #29 of 96 Old 01-19-2007, 11:54 PM
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After all this snake oil talk I really want to know what you guys use in your $20,000 + systems. Do you use Home Depot, Radio Shack, let me know. You are starting to sound like the infamous Julian Hersch from the old Stereo Review, if it can't be measured it's not true and all components that measure the same sound the same.

I've had many cables in my system for testing, power, analog interconnect, digital interconnect etc. I have done exstensive A/B and long term evaulation with many people participating and the panels blind opinion came up with with couple favorites. They however did agree there was a difference from one cable to another. I do think for example there is a sound difference between silver and copper all things being equal.

I do understand if you don't have the money to spend on cables it is human nature to say, it makes no difference. But in this forum I'm very suprised to hear all the snake oil talk. It seems it is based on principal not on evaulation.

Please check my system in my profile and you should hopefully see I have a rig that can tell a difference in cables and I'm glad myself and my panel can hear the difference because it makes everything sound better. BTW I've heard the Synergistic Research test at three different CES shows and I don't think it's fixed and I do think they have very good product that does make a difference with the active shielding application.

Cables tested: Nordost,Audioquest,JPS,Siltech,Kharma,Kimber,Cardas,ESP,Supr a,Harmonic Technology, PS Audio , Hovland,Shunyata, FIM, Cable Research Labs,Synergistic Research,Aural Symphonics,Custom Power Cord Company. Not including what I have heard at shows.

Good listening and enjoy the music
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post #30 of 96 Old 01-20-2007, 05:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't derail this thread into another 'does it work' thread.

My point was that for the first time in my life I sat and WANTED to hear a difference at my first supposed A/B demo of high end cable. The demo was ridiculously flawed to me, they weren't comparing apples to apples, and I went as far as writing to Bryston asking why they'd associate with a company like that.

My ears are WIIIIIIIDE open, I just want someone to prove to me that there's a difference. Once I hear a difference, I'll jump on the 'high end cables sound better' bandwagon immediately.


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