For all D-Box enthusiasts ! - Page 218 - AVS Forum
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post #6511 of 6526 Old 08-20-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post
Hello Frank, thank you for the post and info.



This is not correct. We cannot sync with PCM, but Dolby HD and DTS MA all work regardless of 5.1, 7.1, etc...

There is a way to use a PC (as a Media/BD Player) to get PCM, but it is not well supported. The biggest draw to this new controller will be being able to watch streaming, and copies (BD, DVD, etc) that were not synced previously by D-Box.

You are correct! Technically, yes, you can only sync on optical or coax (which is basically 5.1 AC3 or DTS, or 2.0 Dolby Digital), but 7.1 formats contain either the "core" DTS stream (5.1), which can be sent via the coax or optical links in the case of DTS-HD, or must contain the AC-3 audio track in the case of Dolby TruHD optional Blu-ray codec...
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post #6512 of 6526 Old 08-20-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post
When did the price of the KAI-1P go up? I thought the MSRP was $299.99?
Was that a special deal you received when you purchased your system?

The MSRP for the KAI-1P is now at a standard 499.99$...

Also I will try to provide accurate answers to your other questions but my contacts are pretty busy with the whole CEDIA Expo preparation!

I will do my best!

Thanks!
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post #6513 of 6526 Old 08-20-2014, 01:32 PM
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No, got my info here:

http://library.d-tools.com/Product/D...9-a361dff79933

MSRP is listed as $299.99
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post #6514 of 6526 Old 08-20-2014, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank_VisionHD View Post
Also I will try to provide accurate answers to your other questions but my contacts are pretty busy with the whole CEDIA Expo preparation!

I will do my best!

Thanks!
Thank you sir!
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post #6515 of 6526 Old 08-20-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank_VisionHD View Post
You are correct! Technically, yes, you can only sync on optical or coax (which is basically 5.1 AC3 or DTS, or 2.0 Dolby Digital), but 7.1 formats contain either the "core" DTS stream (5.1), which can be sent via the coax or optical links in the case of DTS-HD, or must contain the AC-3 audio track in the case of Dolby TruHD optional Blu-ray codec...
Good point. May be better to say that unless you have a BD player that can output both HD audio and lossy audio at the sime time, you will be limited to the legacy soundtracks. The Blu Ray Standard requires the disks to have the lossy track so folks don't have to check for that..

Last edited by thxman; 08-20-2014 at 01:56 PM.
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post #6516 of 6526 Old 08-21-2014, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post
This generates 2 questions for me.

1. Why this extra connection (3.5mm jack) or will this replace the current connection?
2. Will this new controller still not have HDMI? All we should need to do is connect HDMI in to the D-Box controller and then have an HDMI out to the AVR/SSP. It sounds like we are moving backward in regards to connectivity.
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post
Ok, new questions. If there is no disk drive, does that mean you always have to have a sub to watch any movie? What if your internet connection is down?

Will there still be RS-232 and IP control for those who don’t want to use a tablet?
Great questions. I might have to think long and hard about this upgrade if they are taking one step forward and two steps back. The way it should work is this: it should still work like the current controller (including offering all current connection options) UNLESS there is no sync, then it falls back on the new method. I would be really afraid as a new adopter the sync would not be as bulletproof as the current technology (WHEN it works which is almost 100% for supported media).

As far as RS-232 and IP control, its a big joke nobody has done this for the likes of Control4 yet we have much cheaper products with IP control, I was hoping D-BOX would make sure that was fixed (most high-end companies fund that driver development). Time will tell.

In my case my current setup has my D-BOX controller far from my rack, so I'm not currently wanting to use HDMI but if it doesn't support it that is goofy at this point...

I guess worst case there could be some kind of method to be able to switch back and forth between controllers.

Matt
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post #6517 of 6526 Old 08-21-2014, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thxman View Post
This generates 2 questions for me.

1. Why this extra connection (3.5mm jack) or will this replace the current connection?
2. Will this new controller still not have HDMI? All we should need to do is connect HDMI in to the D-Box controller and then have an HDMI out to the AVR/SSP. It sounds like we are moving backward in regards to connectivity.
The idea of the new controller using an analog signal seems a prudent move, IMHO.

If you choose HDMI, you probably would go with V1.4 today, knowing that version 2.0 is on its way. You would always be in the obsolesence trap. Further, any additional HDMI component in a chain tends to add more problems, as the source negotiates with all participants to make sure, everybody is capable to handle the resolution, audio format, and above all, complies with the HDCP copy protection.

I can well imagine what we could read in this forum, if people got (HDMI) connection issues or were forced to dump their "new" shazam controller from time to time since HDMI x.x required them to...

Cheers!

Markus
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post #6518 of 6526 Old 08-21-2014, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by thxman View Post
Ok, new questions. If there is no disk drive, does that mean you always have to have a sub to watch any movie? What if your internet connection is down?

Will there still be RS-232 and IP control for those who don’t want to use a tablet?
I think we need to distinguish two questions here...

The first has been raised before: will the new controller be cloud based or will it store all the Shazam-detection and code data locally. The "Connect" in the new controller's preliminary name might be an indication that it could indeed be a cloud based service, which in turn WOULD require an internet connection either when you start a movie or even thoughout watching a movie. A cloud based service could also mean that access to the cloud code base could be limited to current subscribers (just as it is now if you subscribe to a streaming service...)

The second question is the controller GUI. The controller appears to be controlled exclusively through IP. If the API is being published, all the known home automation systems can make use of it. A HTML frontend in a browser might cover some functionality or an App on your smartphone or tablet. So for the control no internet connection would be required, it is just the IP (Internet Protocol) that is being used to exchange commands and (status) feedback with the controller.

As always, just my qualified guesses...

Markus
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post #6519 of 6526 Old 08-21-2014, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by turls View Post
I would be really afraid as a new adopter the sync would not be as bulletproof as the current technology (WHEN it works which is almost 100% for supported media).
I think you DO have a point here.

The new technology, which will rely exclusively on the audible (!) audio signal, might be faced with problems that cannot be solved completely:

- What if a movie starts with silence? What if hundreds of movies start with silence?
- What if a movie contains a famous scene from another movie?

The current system has the advantage that it looks for some form of unique signature in the digital stream - this is a 99.99% secure way to distinguish movies. (there are some snippets that cause my controller to briefly detect a "26 Days..." movie for a fair number of movies while starting).
Once a movie has been detected the code is present and even if you jump within a movie, the sync after the jump is virtually instant. The new controller might need some audible fodder to detect where whithin a movie you are...

On the other hand, getting rid or reducing the need of re-syncs for new disc versions and opening up a whole new world of broadcast and streaming as "D-Box compatible" might be worth the move for D-Box.

Cheers!

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post #6520 of 6526 Old 08-21-2014, 10:05 AM
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I cannot get my mind wrapped around how this controller can work without a hard drive. If this is cloud based you have to have a robust fast internet connection through the entire movie, especially if you skip around, pause, etc. and that's assuming there are no server-side issues! I sure hope we can get a LOT more questions answered before it is time to start placing orders!

Maybe I missed things but I don't even know how I get an analog headphone type output from my current multichannel setup. There is no reason for an AVR or Blu-ray disk player to output the type of signal you would need for a set of 2-channel headphones. I'm also lost on how that happens.

As long as D-BOX has been working on this I would hope they have good answers for all our concerns!

Matt

Last edited by turls; 08-21-2014 at 10:12 AM.
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post #6521 of 6526 Old 08-21-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mv038856 View Post
On the other hand, getting rid or reducing the need of re-syncs for new disc versions and opening up a whole new world of broadcast and streaming as "D-Box compatible" might be worth the move for D-Box.
That's kind of my fear if they come out with a box that doesn't support the old method. If they are going to stop supporting re-syncs in their current fashion, I would see why they would not want to extend the old method by putting it in their new boxes going forward. Again, bad news for the reliability of the current methods! IF...

Matt
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post #6522 of 6526 Old 08-23-2014, 07:22 AM
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I saw Divergent getting pushed down yesterday.

Last edited by 7channelfreak; 08-23-2014 at 07:25 AM.
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post #6523 of 6526 Old 08-24-2014, 11:04 AM
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I saw Divergent getting pushed down yesterday.
I wonder how they will handle movies with multiple versions, like LOTR where we have extended versions. They would have to have some sort of master file that has all the additional scenes and skip them when the cut is different. Hopefully this transition is relatively seamless. If it takes 10 seconds of actual movie time to get the audio sync and title loaded, we might have a few titles that have the system come live during an opening action scene.

I think this is a good move for getting around the resynch issues and working with streaming and broadcast titles. I just hope we don't have too many unintended or unforeseen problems with it.
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post #6524 of 6526 Old 08-24-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Poindexter View Post
I wonder how they will handle movies with multiple versions, like LOTR where we have extended versions. They would have to have some sort of master file that has all the additional scenes and skip them when the cut is different. Hopefully this transition is relatively seamless. If it takes 10 seconds of actual movie time to get the audio sync and title loaded, we might have a few titles that have the system come live during an opening action scene.

I think this is a good move for getting around the resynch issues and working with streaming and broadcast titles. I just hope we don't have too many unintended or unforeseen problems with it.

Oh I think I'll have a ton of questions for them at Cedia next month. But yes...lots of what ifs and how's for me at this point. But I'm certainly interested.
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post #6525 of 6526 Old 08-25-2014, 07:51 PM
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i have found a solution to throw everything you want to the d-box controller:

The datasat monitor out, it can take all the channels and mix them into mono, even the cinema content emanating out of a dci projector (assuming is blu ray window and not first run- which is anyways what you can get at home in 4k hfr/3d).

I am a genius aint I?

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post #6526 of 6526 Old 08-25-2014, 08:28 PM
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now the dolby atmos processor, which does cinema and home atmos for 34k also has a monitor out.

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